alt.comp.freeware information

[Susan Bugher]

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[Peter Seiler]

Susan Bugher - 17.03.2005 15:18 :

This is the ALT.COMP.FREEWARE newsgroup. FREEWARE posts are welcome.

recommendation: Would it be not enough even for newbies posting this
once a week/month for example instead of daily?

 

[Susan Bugher]

Susan Bugher - 17.03.2005 15:18 :


recommendation: Would it be not enough even for newbies posting this
once a week/month for example instead of daily?

A weekly/monthly post might be adequate for the information needs of
experienced usenet users. *Newbies* include people who are new to more
than the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup.

Newbies in an online web forum may not know they are reading
*alt.comp.freeware* newsgroup posts. They may not know they are reading
*newsgroup* posts. They may not know *newsgroups* and *usenet* exist.

Newbies in a mislabeled online web forum may not know they are reading
a *freeware* group and think posts about shareware are on topic.

A daily post gives newbies the information they need when they need it.
The Subject heading is constant. Experienced usenet users can filter
the information posts if they don't care to see them.

The question of daily vs. weekly posts was discussed at some length
fairly recently. It has come up several times since then. Perhaps we
need a daily/weekly/monthly post about why we have a daily post.

Susan
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[Roger Johansson]

Newbies in an online web forum may not know they are reading
*alt.comp.freeware* newsgroup posts. They may not know they are reading
*newsgroup* posts. They may not know *newsgroups* and *usenet* exist.

I have been thinking about the future of usenet.

A very small part of new internet users ever learn to use a newsreader,
and the working free newsservers are few and far apart.

Web access to newsgroups become more common, and are mixed with other web
forums

Maybe it will continue like this. A few know about newsgroups and how to
use a newsreader. Increasing numbers of new internet users will access web
forums, and some of those forums will be connected to real newsgroups.

It will become even more chaotic.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I have been thinking about the future of usenet.

A very small part of new internet users ever learn to use a newsreader,

The way we access information and communicate with each other is
constantly changing. . . gopher? what's that?

and the working free newsservers are few and far apart.

Free internet access has pretty well disappeared. The internet seems to
be alive and well. . .

Web access to newsgroups become more common, and are mixed with other web
forums

Maybe it will continue like this. A few know about newsgroups and how to
use a newsreader.

Perhaps fewer people will know how to use a newsreader and *more* people
will know about usenet newsgroups because they have seen/read/posted to
them on usenet web forums.

Increasing numbers of new internet users will access web

forums, and some of those forums will be connected to real newsgroups.

It will become even more chaotic.

IMO usenet access via a web forum interface could be a Good Thing for
many people - if the web sites furnish accurate information. At the
moment that's appears to be a very big if. . .

and speaking of unspeakable web forums. . .

Our buddy Daryl at ugroups.com is a busy lad. . .

http://groups.google.ca/groups?as_q=www.ugroups.com&safe=images&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en


Results 1 - 100 of about 578 for www.ugroups.com

He's getting a *warm* reception. . .

Susan
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[Roger Johansson]

Perhaps fewer people will know how to use a newsreader and *more*
people will know about usenet newsgroups because they have
seen/read/posted to them on usenet web forums.

I think the main factor is that newcomers to computers and internet are
less willing, or motivated, to learn how to use different programs.

We see more people who do not understand the difference between a
program, a web service, a popup window, a newsserver, an operating
system, a web forum, etc..

They learn how to use a web browser and that's it. They expect to do
everything with that web browser, mail, groups, web, ftp, banking,
reading, etc.. To them it is just different "sites".

And maybe that is a good thing, it makes all kinds of services available
to more people.

There are 5 billion people out there who are thinking about buying their
first computer.

 

[Roger Johansson]

There are 5 billion people out there who are thinking about buying
their first computer.

And think about what will happen to the english language. When 6 billion
italians, malaysians, indians, chinese, and norwegians are going to learn
to communicate with each other.

People like you, Susan, who have spent a lifetime learning all the
correct expressions and grammatical rules will probably feel slightly
seasick from trying to decode the result, the new international english.

...who are considering buying their first computer..

 

[Dewey Edwards]

A weekly/monthly post might be adequate for the information needs of
experienced usenet users. *Newbies* include people who are new to >more than the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup.

And obviously, new to the judicious use of a newsreader. *Newbies*
who are new to more than ACF will download all headers that are
still on their server. But your next point - web based access....

Newbies in an online web forum may not know they are reading
*alt.comp.freeware* newsgroup posts. They may not know they are >reading *newsgroup* posts. They may not know *newsgroups* and >*usenet* exist.
True.

Newbies in a mislabeled online web forum may not know they are >reading a *freeware* group and think posts about shareware are on >topic.

And if those now "well informed" newbies come here, they get to see
threads like -
"Payware worth every penny!"

A daily post gives newbies the information they need when they need it.

Depending on how they first view this group, they may see a message
with 27 replies, all identical. They may also be starting at AFCG,
or AFCD and see the claim that this is ACF. Possible confusion.

The Subject heading is constant. Experienced usenet users can filter
the information posts if they don't care to see them.

The "Payware worth every penny!" thread makes me wish regulars read
your post occasionally.

The question of daily vs. weekly posts was discussed at some length
fairly recently. It has come up several times since then. Perhaps we
need a daily/weekly/monthly post about why we have a daily post.

Better idea. This will be my last post on why we need or don't need
a daily post.

In closing, I suggest a balance. The posts shouldn't be daily, but
their frequency and language should be governed by their hoped for
effectiveness. I hope you modify the post as to the other groups to
avoid newbie confusion.

 

[Susan Bugher]

And think about what will happen to the english language. When 6 billion
italians, malaysians, indians, chinese, and norwegians are going to learn
to communicate with each other.

I've worked with a number of Chinese, Indians and Malaysians. Their
command of English varied from good to superb. I could sometimes catch
them out with idioms like "in my neck of the woods". (That got to be a
game with some of my coworkers.)

I've communicated (or attempted to communicate) with people who didn't
speak English (my only language). That's a lot like playing Charades -
point at things, make meaningful gestures etc. etc. It's usually fun
(occasionally frustrating).

People like you, Susan, who have spent a lifetime learning all the
correct expressions and grammatical rules will probably feel slightly
seasick from trying to decode the result, the new international english.

International English isn't new. IIRC half the words have roots in the
Romance languages. English plunders from anything it can get its hand
on. I grew up in the boondocks. I believe boondocks is a Tagalog word.

The best time to learn languages is when you're young. Dad majored in
English, mother in foreign languages. Lucky me. English grammar? I
think that's an oxymoron. Whatever it is, I ain't got any education in
it. . .

The only point in all this [OT] rambling is that IMO languange is *fun*
- words are fun to play with (and to hell with "correct expressions and
grammatical rules" that get in the way). Please bring on those new
English words! (the ones that used to be foreign).

Susan
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[Susan Bugher]

And if those now "well informed" newbies come here, they get to see
threads like -
"Payware worth every penny!"

True but one [OT] thread doesn't make or break a newsgroup.

Depending on how they first view this group, they may see a message
with 27 replies, all identical. They may also be starting at AFCG,
or AFCD and see the claim that this is ACF. Possible confusion.

True. Confusion is possible.

Better idea. This will be my last post on why we need or don't need
a daily post.

The OP asked a question. The answer is in the archives. IMO he answered
his own question by asking it. He didn't look or couldn't find the info.
IOW - he felt he needed the answer *now*.

In closing, I suggest a balance. The posts shouldn't be daily, but
their frequency and language should be governed by their hoped for
effectiveness. I hope you modify the post as to the other groups to
avoid newbie confusion.

AFAICT the consensus is still in favor of a daily post. I'll add a note
that the information is cross-posted to ACFG and ACFD.

Susan
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[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Experienced usenet users can filter the information posts if they
don't care to see them.

So can newbies, if there are instructions posted somewhere on the web.
Hopefully, most newbies who see 27 identical posts and wonder WTF they
are would read one of them to find out, and (toward the end of the
post), they could be directed to a page of instructions in case they
want to filter them in the future. And such a page could be at the
wiki. Hold on . . .

<http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UsenetTips>

I've typed in instructions for filtering these posts with Xnews (though
someone might want to add info about using the Score dialog rather than
editing the score file directly). If others put in instructions for
their freeware readers, and then a link to that page is added to the
info post, it might be helpful to some newbies; at the very least, it
would get their feet wet wrt using one of their newsreader's most
important features.

 

[Susan Bugher]

<news:[email protected]>:

<http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UsenetTips>

I've typed in instructions for filtering these posts with Xnews (though
someone might want to add info about using the Score dialog rather than
editing the score file directly). If others put in instructions for
their freeware readers, and then a link to that page is added to the
info post, it might be helpful to some newbies; at the very least, it
would get their feet wet wrt using one of their newsreader's most
important features.

Good idea. Thanks Q. I've added a note and that link to the
alt.comp.freeware information post. (A note about the cross-posting has
also been added.)

re adding instruction for other newsreaders - ISTM in some cases a note
may be sufficient - "see the help file for instructions on filtering" or
some such. . .

I added a link to the UsenetTips page here:
http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?AcfWiki

Susan
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[MLC]

_»Q«_, sabato 19/mar/2005:

<http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UsenetTips>

I've typed in instructions for filtering these posts with Xnews (though
someone might want to add info about using the Score dialog rather than
editing the score file directly). If others put in instructions for
their freeware readers, and then a link to that page is added to the
info post, it might be helpful to some newbies; at the very least, it
would get their feet wet wrt using one of their newsreader's most
important features.

Great idea. I've added the instructions for Dialog users.

Just a question to you: are you sure about the position of $ and ^ in your
rule? The meaning of those metacharacters in the regex is the other way
round, but I don't know if Xnews manages them on the contrary

Also, please, correct my English in the Wiki page!

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Good idea. Thanks Q. I've added a note and that link to the
alt.comp.freeware information post. (A note about the
cross-posting has also been added.)

Thanks, Susan.

re adding instruction for other newsreaders - ISTM in some cases a
note may be sufficient - "see the help file for instructions on
filtering" or some such. . .

Someone[1] has added Dialog instructions there too now.

RTFM is fine, but I think it's helpful for people new to filtering to
have a simple, concrete example of handling the task at hand, and be
directed to the manual for more info.

I added a link to the UsenetTips page here:
http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?AcfWiki

Thanks. I meant to do that but got sidetracked.

[1] I know who, and you're supposed to fix my mistakes as you go.
My regular expressions for Xnews had the ^ and the $ in the wrong
places; I've fixed them now.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Great idea. I've added the instructions for Dialog users.

Just a question to you: are you sure about the position of $ and ^
in your rule? The meaning of those metacharacters in the regex is
the other way round, but I don't know if Xnews manages them on the
contrary

Heh, see my other recent post in this thread, made right before I saw
your post here. If you hadn't added the Dialog section, I would not
have noticed getting them backwards. So, thanks!

Also, please, correct my English in the Wiki page!

I would if there were any problems with it.

 

[Susan Bugher]

<news:[email protected]>:

RTFM is fine, but I think it's helpful for people new to filtering to
have a simple, concrete example of handling the task at hand, and be
directed to the manual for more info.

You'll get no argument from me on that. My suggestion was made to
encourage the addition of *some* information about other newsreaders
(half a loaf is better than none) - not discourage specific instructions.

Susan
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