Ping Anna re: Casper

[PD43]

C'mon, Peg, that's a kludge and an extra step. If you want
to re-define "to clone", OK. But not Acronis nor anyone else
calls that "cloning". That's "imaging and then restoring".

But he was correct when he said that Acronis Disk Director can
clone/copy partition-to-partition.

 

[Anna]

(ADDENDUM - SEE BELOW)...

Bill:
As Tim Daniels has pointed out, Casper 4 does have the capability of
cloning on a partition-to-partition basis.

Here are the basic steps for partition-to-partition cloning...

Using XP's Disk Management utility, set up desired partitions on the
"destination hard drive", i.e., the recipient of the source drive's cloned
contents.

1. Access the Casper program and click on the "Copy Drive" icon.

2. Following the "Welcome to the Casper..." screen, select the option
"Copy a specific drive". Click Next.

3. On the "Select Drive" window that opens, select (highlight) the source
hard drive containing the specific partition you want to copy. Click Next.

4. On the "Select Copy Destination" window that opens, select the option
"Copy to an existing drive" and click Next.

5. On the "Select Destination Drive" window that opens, select (highlight)
the destination hard drive containing the partition that will be the
recipient of the clone. Ensure that you've selected the correct
destination drive and partition. Click Next.

6. On the next screen, click Next to confirm that you want to overwrite
the data on the destination drive.

7. On the next screen, select the option "Perform the copy now" and click
Next and then Next again to start the cloning process.

As an example let's say a user desires to clone the contents of his/her
present single-partitioned HDD to a newly-purchased larger HDD but desires
to create multiple partitions on the new HDD...

1. Let's say he/she wants to clone the contents of their old 40 GB HDD to
a newly-purchased 200 GB HDD (roughly 170 GB in binary terms).

2. The user plans to set up his/her 200 GB HDD with three partitions - one
of 50 GB, one of 55 GB, and the third of 65 GB.

3. He/she could install the 200 GB HDD as a secondary drive in their
current system, boot to the 40 GB HDD, and using the XP Disk Management
utility create the three partitions. Then, using the above steps, clone
the contents of the 40 GB HDD to the first partition.

4. Shut down the system, disconnect the old 40 GB HDD, and if not already
so connected, connect the 200 GB HDD as Primary Master if it's a PATA HDD,
or to the first SATA connector on the motherboard if the disk is a SATA
drive. Boot with only the new 200 GB HDD connected to assure that > the
drive boots & functions without problems.

5. Reconnect the 40 GB HDD if the user plans to continue to use that disk
as a secondary drive in their system.

In your particular case, using the above-described procedure, you would
simply clone the contents of your C: partition (the first partition on
your source HDD) to your USBEHD. So that the single-partitioned external
HDD would then contain the contents of your C: partition. The (potential)
problem here is that if *later* you decide to clone one or more of the
*other* partitions on your source HDD to the same USBEHD you could not >
do so as things now stand because your USBEHD has a single partition. (I'm
presuming you would want to retain the C: partition clone already
contained on the USBEHD).

Of course, you could subsequently get around this by using a third-party
disk management utility, e.g., Partition Magic, to manipulate the USBEHD
by > shrinking the existing single partition and creating whatever
additional partitions you desire. Or, if at the outset - prior to the
initial cloning of the C: partition to the USBEHD - you believe it's
reasonable to assume that at some later date you will be cloning one or
more of the other three partitions (besides the C: partition) to the
USBEHD, then initially multi-partition your external HDD along the lines
you think reasonable.

To my knowledge the Acronis True Image program (at least with respect to
versions prior to its present version 11) did not have the capability of
*cloning* individual partitions. Insofar as its disk-cloning capability
was concerned it was an "all or nothing" proposition. However, it was true
that one could use its "disk imaging" capability to achieve cloning of
contents on a partition-to-partition basis. AFAIK, I do not think the
present version of ATI has direct partition-to-partition cloning
capability but I'm not positive about that. And I have had no experience
with the Acronis Disk Director program so perhaps Acronis now has that
capability as Pegasus points out in his response to your query.

In any event, in my view (as I have repeatedly stated) the Casper 4
program is a superior disk-cloning program both from a disk-to-disk and
partition-to-partition point of view. Its simplicity of use,
straightforward operation, overall effectiveness together with its
substantial disk-cloning speed when used as a routine backup system make
it the best disk-cloning program we have ever used. We highly recommend
this program for users seeking a comprehensive backup system that is
simple to use, effective in its outcome, and reasonably quick in
undertaking routine backup operations.

BTW, you may be interested in a recent (4/6) post of mine to the
microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support newsgroup (Re: How to clone
boot drive to larger disc with less partitions ?") that is relative to
this subject.
Anna

ADDENDUM TO ABOVE...
Bill (& others who might be interested)...
In my previous post above I neglected to include an even *additional*
feature of the Casper 4 program that makes this program so much more
versatile and simple to use...

Taking your example where you have four partitions on your source HDD and at
this point in time you prefer to clone the contents of *only* your first
(C partition to the USB external HDD, however, in doing so you do not wish
to have the USBEHD single-partitioned with only the contents of that first
(C partition residing on that single partition. But at this point while
you may want to later clone one or more of the other partitions on your
source HDD to the USBEHD (in addition to the source HDD's C partition that
would already be there) you don't have a precise idea as to how many
partitions you will ultimately need nor the size of these partitions.

You can start with an unpartitioned/unformatted USBEHD. During the initial
cloning process involving cloning the contents of your first (C partition
to the USBEHD the Casper program will easily allow you to establish the size
of that partition. The remainder of the USBEHD disk space will, of course,
remain unallocated.

At some later point, let's say you decide to clone the contents of one of
your other source HDD's partitions to the USBEHD. Once again you can do so
and at the same time easily establish the size of the partition you want.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Anna - Have you read this about Vista's partition boundaries:
http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html ? According to
the author, Vista creates partitions on 2048-sector (that's about
1MByte) boundaries. That means a partition will begin and end
on such a boundary. The old Windows OSes (XP and previous)
created them on 64-sector (cylinder) boundaries. According to
the author, problems arise when the old and new partitions are mixed.
Symptoms are "disappearing" partitions.

I've emailed Future Systems Solutions about this, but so far,
they've side-stepped the question. Have you been able to see
how Casper 4.0 positions its partition boundaries when working
with a HD that contains Vista?

*TimDaniels*

Tim:
I've really had such limited experience using Vista that I'm loathe to make
any comments re that program as it impacts on the Casper 4 program.

The few times that I've used Casper to clone the contents of a Vista system
to either a USB external HDD or to another internal HDD it worked
flawlessly.

All the comments I've heard from other users re Vista & Casper 4 have been
positive so far.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Anna -

As you have pointed out, the latest Casper (version 4.0)
does NOT require that the clone not see its "parent" OS when
started for its very first run - which means that the step of
disconnecting the "parent's" HD before starting up the clone for
its first run no longer has to be done. That is a great convenience.
I've asked Future Systems Solutions whether that new feature
includes clones on the same hard drive as the "parent", and the
reply was "yes" - a great help in creating dual-booting of the same
Windows OS on the same HD. For cloning, Casper 4.0 seems
to hold the top position.

*TimDaniels*

Tim (& others who may be interested)...
Yes, this is an important - some would say crucial - capability of the
Casper 4 program.

Just for the benefit of others who may not be familiar with this
situation...

A problem that has arisen with virtually all the major disk-cloning programs
in the past - including Symantec's Ghost and Acronis True Image as
follows...

1. The HDD (the "destination" HDD) acting as the recipient of the cloned
contents of the "source" HDD is an internal HDD.

2. IMMEDIATELY following the disk-cloning operation (while both the "source"
& destination HDDs are connected) an *initial* boot is made to the source
drive.

3. In a fair number of instances there can be a subsequent problem with that
newly-cloned destination drive in that it will fail to boot if at a later
time it is the only HDD connected in the system.

Because of this anomaly our advice - (as well as from others including the
developers of these disk cloning programs) - has heretofore always been for
the user to disconnect the source HDD from the system *immediately*
following the disk-cloning operation and make that *initial* boot with
*only* the newly-cloned destination internal HDD connected. (And, of course,
to determine that the clone has "took" - the cloned HDD is bootable &
functional).

Obviously if the user has used an internal HDD as the "destination" drive -
the recipient of the cloned contents of the "source" HDD - this can be an
awkward, not to say onerous task each time a disk-cloning operation is
undertaken.

While this problem does not *always* happen along the lines described above,
it does occur with sufficient frequency that we feel this cautionary note is
required. Note that where the recipient of the cloned contents of the source
HDD is an *external* HDD, such as a USB external HDD, this potential problem
does not exist since the USB external HDD is not ordinarily a bootable
device.

The problem described above does not occur with the Casper 4.0 program. We
have found it unnecessary for the user to disconnect the source HDD from the
system and make the *initial* boot following the disk cloning operation with
only the internal "destination" HDD connected. A boot to the source HDD with
the cloned HDD connected poses no problem for the future. Again, we're
referring here to a disk cloning operation where the recipient of the
clone - the "destination" drive - has been an *internal* HDD. We haven't
encountered a single instance where we experienced subsequent boot failure
of the internal "destination" drive even when it had been connected in the
system while the boot to the source HDD was made immediately following the
disk-cloning operation.

Based on our rather extensive experience with the Casper 4.0 program to date
using a fairly wide variety of systems together with both PATA & SATA HDDs
in a variety of combinations, e.g., SATA-to-SATA, PATA-to-PATA,
SATA-to-PATA, etc., we haven't experienced a single problem (as described
above) relative to this area.
Anna

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Timothy Daniels" commented:

Anna - Have you read this about Vista's partition boundaries:
http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html ? According to
the author, Vista creates partitions on 2048-sector (that's about
1MByte) boundaries. That means a partition will begin and end
on such a boundary. The old Windows OSes (XP and previous)
created them on 64-sector (cylinder) boundaries. According to
the author, problems arise when the old and new partitions are
mixed. Symptoms are "disappearing" partitions.

I've emailed Future Systems Solutions about this, but so far,
they've side-stepped the question. Have you been able to see
how Casper 4.0 positions its partition boundaries when working
with a HD that contains Vista?

*TimDaniels*

I got a reply from FSS regarding Casper 4.0's partition boundaries.
They say that they do NOT offer partition creation on 2,048-sector
(i.e. 1MB) boundaries as either a default or an option. They say that
they are not presently aware of any problems using Casper to create,
remove, or clone partitions on a multiboot mixed OS system. According
to FSS, the new alignments are necessary to avoid emulation of 512 byte
sectors when using new Long Data Sector hard disks (i.e., hard disks
having sector sizes greater than 512 bytes). But that technology has
been discussed in the industry for many years, and since it hasn't arrived
yet, and isn't likely to arrive soon, FSS has not implemented it.

Personally, I'd avoid mixing partition boundary types, especially with
logical partitions, given the possible "disappearing partitions" problem
alluded to in the weg page at: http://www.multibooters.co.uk/partitions.html.
How to do this? Just consistently create all the partitions with Vista, or
otherwise use XP or earlier Windows OS or a 3rd-party utility or even
Linux's Gparted to create the partitions.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

But he was correct when he said that Acronis Disk Director can
clone/copy partition-to-partition.

Yes. I wonder why Acronis didn't also put that capability
into True Image. Maybe because it isn't named "True Clone".


It would be interesting to hear if somebody has compared
Acronis's Disk Director with FSS's Casper 4.0 in making
single-partition clones. So far, with Casper's lack of need to
hide the "parent" OS from the clone when the clone is first
run, Casper seems to have the advantage as a cloner.

*TimDaniels*

 

[PD43]

    Yes.  I wonder why Acronis didn't also put that capability
into True Image.  Maybe because it isn't named "True Clone".

Because then it couldn't sell Disk Director??

DUH! ;->

On the other hand, why didn't Casper include imaging capabilities in
it's program?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

    It would be interesting to hear if somebody has compared
Acronis's Disk Director with FSS's Casper 4.0 in making
single-partition clones.  So far, with Casper's lack of need to
hide the "parent" OS from the clone when the clone is first
run, Casper seems to have the advantage as a cloner.

This is obviously a very vibrant topic to those of us "techies" out
here.

 

[Lil' Dave]

Anna, I just looked at the PDF file on Casper before getting ready to
install it (or at least seriously considering doing so), but if I read
this right, it cannot backup a partition, but only the entire drive - is
that correct? The Casper PDF file shows only two options for the
program - copy entire disk, or copy a specific drive. And if that's the
case, I can't use it, since I have only one internal HD with four
partitions on it (C, D, E, F), and I *only* want to backup the C:
partition (to a USB external hard drive enclosure - for just the C:
partition)

My common sense says in the reference to entire disk, it means the entire
hard drive. In reference to a specific drive, its referring to a specific
partition.