PC Chips motherboard

[Norm Riquier]

I need help.. this is very puzzling to say the least. In 2002
I bought and put together a computer using a PC Chips motherboard
M830 series socket A and a AMD 2000+ with 256 meg of Ram and 80Gig
HD.Everything worked fine till last May 2004. I took it to a computer
service and after they tried to fix the computer (which they gave up
on) they told me that I needed a new other board. The service tech
said he could not get the OS to work and he indicated that a component
in the motherboard had shorted and that I needed a new motherboard. I
proceeded to order a replacement Motherboard from Newegg. I received
the new motherboard (from Newegg) PC Chips Socket A M848A series and
installed it in the computer. I had no problem installing the new
motherboard and the old CPU (2000+ AMD). I turned on the computer and
nothing happened. no power to anything. No fans no lights nothing. I
retraced everything and found nothing wrong. I took it as a defective
motherboard and sent it back to NewEgg for exchange. 10 days later got
a replacement motherboard. I installed it as I did above and turned on
the power. Again nothing happened. The entire unit was dead.. I
proceeded to re-install the old motherboard and turned on the power
switch. Voila everything worked, fans, HD and lights. So I took it as
another defective board. Sent it back to NewEgg for replacement got
another board in 10 days and installed it again. Turned on the power
switch nothing worked. I then left for Iraq and just returned and I am
back at this computer.What is wrong??? Please help. thanks

 

[philo]

I need help.. this is very puzzling to say the least. In 2002
I bought and put together a computer using a PC Chips motherboard

<snip>

*never* go with a PC Chips motherboard...
there are some brands better than other...
but the PC Chips is at the bottom of the line.

you generally don't have to spend a fortune to get a decent board

 

[Hackworth]

<snip>

*never* go with a PC Chips motherboard...
there are some brands better than other...
but the PC Chips is at the bottom of the line.

You know, it's funny, but I've never had a problem with PC Chips
motherboards. Isn't that the damndest thing? Don't get me wrong, I'm fully
aware of the problems and history associated with this brand, but I'm
knocking on wood and counting myself as one of the lucky ones.

As the family (and extended family) computer geek, I accumulate parts and
then assemble systems for family members for free. (Hey, it's a hobby and
they appreciate it.) Because of the low price, I've used PC Chips
motherboards for about a decade now with no problems (for K6, PIII, P4,
Celeron, Athlon, and Athlon XP platforms). At least two K6-III systems (for
neice and nephew) that I know of are still running daily (the others having
since upgraded to more powerful machines).

IMHO, if you get a PC Chips board that works, it's actually a great bargain,
as every subsystem most folks need is usually built in. I think the biggest
problem is that PC Chips had quality-control issues several years ago and
has been trying to shake that reputation ever since. I don't think the build
quality of the boards is necessarily "bad," only that too many boards that
*are* bad manage to leave the factory instead of getting pulled before that
happens. That's why I indicated that if you're lucky enough to get one that
works, you should have a reliable workhorse for years to come.

With all of that being said, I usually stick with Asus for my own primary
machine. I guess it's hard to shake those preconceived notions. Life is
funny, huh?

 

[David Maynard]

You know, it's funny, but I've never had a problem with PC Chips
motherboards. Isn't that the damndest thing? Don't get me wrong, I'm fully
aware of the problems and history associated with this brand, but I'm
knocking on wood and counting myself as one of the lucky ones.

As the family (and extended family) computer geek, I accumulate parts and
then assemble systems for family members for free. (Hey, it's a hobby and
they appreciate it.) Because of the low price, I've used PC Chips
motherboards for about a decade now with no problems (for K6, PIII, P4,
Celeron, Athlon, and Athlon XP platforms). At least two K6-III systems (for
neice and nephew) that I know of are still running daily (the others having
since upgraded to more powerful machines).

IMHO, if you get a PC Chips board that works, it's actually a great bargain,
as every subsystem most folks need is usually built in. I think the biggest
problem is that PC Chips had quality-control issues several years ago and
has been trying to shake that reputation ever since. I don't think the build
quality of the boards is necessarily "bad," only that too many boards that
*are* bad manage to leave the factory instead of getting pulled before that
happens. That's why I indicated that if you're lucky enough to get one that
works, you should have a reliable workhorse for years to come.

With all of that being said, I usually stick with Asus for my own primary
machine. I guess it's hard to shake those preconceived notions. Life is
funny, huh?

I too have had some decent experiences with PCChips motherboards but their
reputation doesn't stem simply from quality control issues. It also stems
from, in the past at least, pasting "PC100" on boards that did not support
a 100MHz FSB, boards that claimed to support 83MHz FSB but, surprise, the
on-board sound dies at 75Mhz and the on-board video dies at 83, chipset
names like "BX Pro" that are not in any way BX chipsets, and other
blatantly deceptive misrepresentations. Just about any time they tacked
"Pro" onto something you could bet it wasn't what the rest of the name
suggested it was. It was their way of stealing the original, hoping you'd
think that's what it was, while making it their 'trademark' for something
different

 

[Hackworth]

I too have had some decent experiences with PCChips motherboards but their
reputation doesn't stem simply from quality control issues. It also stems
from, in the past at least, pasting "PC100" on boards that did not support
a 100MHz FSB, boards that claimed to support 83MHz FSB but, surprise, the
on-board sound dies at 75Mhz and the on-board video dies at 83, chipset
names like "BX Pro" that are not in any way BX chipsets, and other
blatantly deceptive misrepresentations. Just about any time they tacked
"Pro" onto something you could bet it wasn't what the rest of the name
suggested it was. It was their way of stealing the original, hoping you'd
think that's what it was, while making it their 'trademark' for something
different

Ah, yes. I had forgotten about those not-so-good old days! I do indeed
remember the big stinks surrounding the scenarios you mentioned. Thanks for
refreshing my memory. It was kinda nostalgic, actually.... ;-)
Fortunately, PC Chips *seems* to have dropped such tactics nowadays. I
can't imagine them being able to get away with such things today. Today's
PC geeks are far too savvy for that, I think.

 

[David Maynard]

Ah, yes. I had forgotten about those not-so-good old days! I do indeed
remember the big stinks surrounding the scenarios you mentioned. Thanks for
refreshing my memory. It was kinda nostalgic, actually.... ;-)
Fortunately, PC Chips *seems* to have dropped such tactics nowadays.

I hope so but if memory serves there were a number of posts a few months
back about CPU-soldered-on K7SOM+ and L7VMM3 (possibly others) motherboard
combos sporting labels like "AMD PRO 1800+" for a Duron 1200Mhz Processor,
"AMD Pro 2000+" for a Duron 1300MHz Processor, "AMD Pro 2600A+" for an XP
1400+ processor, and "AMD Pro 3000A+ for an XP1600+ Processor.

They still have soldered-on-CPU motherboards listed on their site but they
mysteriously never say which processors nor what 'name' they assign to
them. Like this one

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Pr...LanID=2&DetailID=243&DetailName=Specification

and this one

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=232&MenuID=25&LanID=2

And the "CPU Support" page is mysteriously blank.

I
can't imagine them being able to get away with such things today. Today's
PC geeks are far too savvy for that, I think.

Geeks never were fooled by it. It's the other 99% of the people out there
you need to worry about

 

[David Maynard]

I hope so but if memory serves there were a number of posts a few months
back about CPU-soldered-on K7SOM+ and L7VMM3 (possibly others)
motherboard combos sporting labels like "AMD PRO 1800+" for a Duron
1200Mhz Processor, "AMD Pro 2000+" for a Duron 1300MHz Processor, "AMD
Pro 2600A+" for an XP 1400+ processor, and "AMD Pro 3000A+ for an
XP1600+ Processor.

They still have soldered-on-CPU motherboards listed on their site but
they mysteriously never say which processors nor what 'name' they assign
to them. Like this one

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Pr...LanID=2&DetailID=243&DetailName=Specification


and this one

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=232&MenuID=25&LanID=2


And the "CPU Support" page is mysteriously blank.



Geeks never were fooled by it. It's the other 99% of the people out
there you need to worry about

Bingo!

Follow up to my own message. Doing a google (English only) with "Pro 2800+"
gave me this in the google page.

---------------------------

Motherboard M825G v 9.2AAMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+, 1333MHz, 133 MHz FSB. AMD
Duron™/PRO 2200+, 1200MHz, 100 MHz FSB. AMD Duron™/PRO 2800+, 1600MHz, 133
MHz FSB ...
www.pcchipsusa.com/prod-m825gv92c.asp - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
---------------------------

Notice the "Pro 2700A+" that's 1333MHz.

Strangely enough, when you follow the normal link you get a Spanish page
for the M825G v 9.2 but none of the text google shows. However, follow the
cached link (which google says was captured on Nov 27, 2005) and you get
the English version with the numbers shown.

CPU On-Board Speed Table
On-Board CPU CPU Speed FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+ 1333MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Duron™/PRO 2200+ 1200MHz 100 MHz FSB
AMD Duron™/PRO 2800+ 1600MHz 133 MHz FSB

Now armed with the 'official' text they use paste AMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+
into google and you get another one.

-----------------------------
Motherboard M825LU v 7.2CAMD Athlon™/PRO 2100A+, 1100MHz, 133 MHz FSB. AMD
Athlon™ /PRO 2700A+, 1333MHz, 133 MHz FSB. AMD Athlon™/PRO 3000A+, 1700MHz,
133 MHz FSB. AMD Athlon™/PRO ...
www.pcchipsusa.com/prod-m825luv72c.asp - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
------------------------------

Which does the same thing: the normal link is Spanish but the cached link
gives you....

CPU On-Board Speed Table
On-Board CPU CPU Speed FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 2100A+ 1100MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+ 1333MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 3000A+ 1700MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 3100A+ 2000MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Duron™/PRO 2100+ 1100MHz 100 MHz FSB

Just for comparison,
a real XP 2100+ is 1.73GHZ, not 1.1GHz
a real XP 2700+ is 2.17GHz/166Mhz, not 1.33GHz/133MHz
a real XP 3000+ is 2.17GHz /166Mhz FSB 512k cache BARTON, not 1.7GHz/133MHz.
And there just plain ain't a standard XP 3100+ nor a Duron 2100+ that I can
find.

But, of course, those aren't "AMD XP" ratings they're "AMD Athlon™/PRO"
ratings, whatever the hell that is.

Nice touch to ™ the "AMD Athlon" portion before mangling it with the
"/Pro." Looks real 'AMD official' and all but the visually astute might
notice that everything after it is an invention not part of the AMD
nomenclature.

 

[Peter A. Stavrakoglou]

<snip>

*never* go with a PC Chips motherboard...
there are some brands better than other...
but the PC Chips is at the bottom of the line.

you generally don't have to spend a fortune to get a decent board

I resolved years ago never to buy a PC Chips board. I bought an ECS board
based on good reports only to find out that PC Chips owns ECS. The ECS
board was a snap to set-up and is still going strong. They've received very
good reviews for their solid budget-priced boards. Perhaps PC Chips, since
buying the company, has continued to let ECS run it's business as it did
before PC Chips came into the picture.

 

[David Maynard]

I resolved years ago never to buy a PC Chips board. I bought an ECS board
based on good reports only to find out that PC Chips owns ECS. The ECS
board was a snap to set-up and is still going strong. They've received very
good reviews for their solid budget-priced boards. Perhaps PC Chips, since
buying the company, has continued to let ECS run it's business as it did
before PC Chips came into the picture.

Other way around. ECS is the parent company.

 

[Hackworth]

I hope so but if memory serves there were a number of posts a few months
back about CPU-soldered-on K7SOM+ and L7VMM3 (possibly others) motherboard
combos sporting labels like "AMD PRO 1800+" for a Duron 1200Mhz Processor,
"AMD Pro 2000+" for a Duron 1300MHz Processor, "AMD Pro 2600A+" for an XP
1400+ processor, and "AMD Pro 3000A+ for an XP1600+ Processor.

They still have soldered-on-CPU motherboards listed on their site but they
mysteriously never say which processors nor what 'name' they assign to
them. Like this one

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Pr...LanID=2&DetailID=243&DetailName=Specification

and this one

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=232&MenuID=25&LanID=2

And the "CPU Support" page is mysteriously blank.



Geeks never were fooled by it. It's the other 99% of the people out there
you need to worry about

Bingo!

Follow up to my own message. Doing a google (English only) with "Pro 2800+"
gave me this in the google page.

---------------------------

Motherboard M825G v 9.2AAMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+, 1333MHz, 133 MHz FSB. AMD
Duron™/PRO 2200+, 1200MHz, 100 MHz FSB. AMD Duron™/PRO 2800+, 1600MHz, 133
MHz FSB ...
www.pcchipsusa.com/prod-m825gv92c.asp - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
---------------------------

Notice the "Pro 2700A+" that's 1333MHz.

Strangely enough, when you follow the normal link you get a Spanish page
for the M825G v 9.2 but none of the text google shows. However, follow the
cached link (which google says was captured on Nov 27, 2005) and you get
the English version with the numbers shown.

CPU On-Board Speed Table
On-Board CPU CPU Speed FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+ 1333MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Duron™/PRO 2200+ 1200MHz 100 MHz FSB
AMD Duron™/PRO 2800+ 1600MHz 133 MHz FSB

Now armed with the 'official' text they use paste AMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+
into google and you get another one.

-----------------------------
Motherboard M825LU v 7.2CAMD Athlon™/PRO 2100A+, 1100MHz, 133 MHz FSB. AMD
Athlon™ /PRO 2700A+, 1333MHz, 133 MHz FSB. AMD Athlon™/PRO 3000A+, 1700MHz,
133 MHz FSB. AMD Athlon™/PRO ...
www.pcchipsusa.com/prod-m825luv72c.asp - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
------------------------------

Which does the same thing: the normal link is Spanish but the cached link
gives you....

CPU On-Board Speed Table
On-Board CPU CPU Speed FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 2100A+ 1100MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 2700A+ 1333MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 3000A+ 1700MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Athlon™/PRO 3100A+ 2000MHz 133 MHz FSB
AMD Duron™/PRO 2100+ 1100MHz 100 MHz FSB

Just for comparison,
a real XP 2100+ is 1.73GHZ, not 1.1GHz
a real XP 2700+ is 2.17GHz/166Mhz, not 1.33GHz/133MHz
a real XP 3000+ is 2.17GHz /166Mhz FSB 512k cache BARTON, not 1.7GHz/133MHz.
And there just plain ain't a standard XP 3100+ nor a Duron 2100+ that I can
find.

But, of course, those aren't "AMD XP" ratings they're "AMD Athlon™/PRO"
ratings, whatever the hell that is.

Nice touch to ™ the "AMD Athlon" portion before mangling it with the
"/Pro." Looks real 'AMD official' and all but the visually astute might
notice that everything after it is an invention not part of the AMD
nomenclature.

-----

Nice bit of research there, David. This is good stuff for folks to know. For
the lower-end/family-freebie systems, perhaps I'll stick to combo deals like
this one featuring a Biostar motherboard:

http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_id=4673

$112 + free shipping... and sometimes when they're running a special it's
lower than that. I picked this combo up a couple of months ago for a
micro-atx system that I put together for a lady at work (for her parents)
and it was a magnificent little buy... and zippy, too. At least you get a
"real" motherboard from a well-known manufacturer and a "real" Athlon XP-M
2600+ CPU... *and* a heatsink/fan!

 

[Hackworth]

Other way around. ECS is the parent company.

I've intalled a couple of ECS boards in family systems, too, and have had
very good luck with them. My last system was an Athlon 64 3000+ box that I
put together last week for a guy at work using an ECS RS480:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135191

Perfect with no hassles (knocking on wood some more....)

I also built a Socket 754 box with a Sempron 64 3000+ (for the same guy's
mom) using an ECS 755-A2 board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135151

It too went off wthout a hitch.

Maybe I'm pushing my luck just a tad too far???

 

[philo]

I've intalled a couple of ECS boards in family systems, too, and have had
very good luck with them. My last system was an Athlon 64 3000+ box that I
put together last week for a guy at work using an ECS RS480:

well, my experience with PC Chips is that I often had to underclock the
board to get things to work.

even though ECS may not have a great name...
i did buy a very inexpensive mobo for an XP-2200 machine
and it's been working fine...

and finally...
though ASUS is one of the more reliable boards out there...
no one is perfect...

i guess it's just a matter of "does it work or not"

 

[Hackworth]

well, my experience with PC Chips is that I often had to underclock the
board to get things to work.

even though ECS may not have a great name...
i did buy a very inexpensive mobo for an XP-2200 machine
and it's been working fine...

and finally...
though ASUS is one of the more reliable boards out there...
no one is perfect...

i guess it's just a matter of "does it work or not"

Yeah, sometimes you just never know. I did have one Asus board crap out on
me years ago, but as you say, that can happen to any manufacturer's
products. And who knows, maybe I did something stupid without knowing it.
Asus is still my "first tier" brand when I'm building a more substantial
system.

This all brings up a related point, however. Good power supplies are
becoming absolutely critical to a good build. I can't help but wonder if
there is a correlation between ECS/PCChips motherboard problems and marginal
power supplies. After all, if one is putting together a cheapie/quickie
system using an ECS/PCChips board, it's not unreasonable to assume that your
average Joe is probably not going to be spending more on the power supply
than the motherboard (or even the motherboard and CPU together in some
cases). OTOH, someone who is putting together more of a mission-critical
system knows (or should know) that a high quality power supply is mandatory.
So, if you take a lower-end "value"motherboard like ECS/PCChips and marry it
to a crappy $20 power supply, you can almost guarantee that there are going
to be issues, if not immediately, then six months down the road for sure.

Maybe I've had so much good luck with ECS/PCChips boards because I make sure
that the stash of power supplies in my workshop is of decent quality. I like
the mid-range Antec power supplies, and I also buy Thermaltake and Rosewill
power supplies. None are super-high-end like PC Power & Coolong or Enermax,
for example, but they're a heck of a lot better than the no-name cheapie
"400W" (yeah, right) power supplies that you find at the computer shows for
a few dollars each. A low-end system can be a terrific value for the purpose
it serves, but only if it's reliable; therefore, spending just a few more
dollars to get a decent power supply pays big dividends in uch cases.

 

[Peter A. Stavrakoglou]

Other way around. ECS is the parent company.

Really? Thanks for the info.

 

[Peter A. Stavrakoglou]

well, my experience with PC Chips is that I often had to underclock the
board to get things to work.

even though ECS may not have a great name...
i did buy a very inexpensive mobo for an XP-2200 machine
and it's been working fine...

and finally...
though ASUS is one of the more reliable boards out there...
no one is perfect...

i guess it's just a matter of "does it work or not"

I use an ASUS in my desktop, has been running great for a few years now. My
two sons have desktops I built, one with a Chaintech and athe other with the
aforementioned ECS board. All run fine. I've had nothing but bad
experiences with the ABIT boards I've owned, all three have failed within
one year. That's one brand I can't trust again.

 

[David Maynard]

Really? Thanks for the info.

Yeah. ECS is huge and makes something like 20% of all motherboards in the
world market; generally 'vanilla' cookie cutter OEM things that go in
various name brand machines and other 'motherboard' companies like Amptron,
Matsonic, and Eurone (plus others that I forget off hand) that just paste
their name on them. PCChips did too but now ECS owns them.

Go to the PCChips site

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Products/ProductList.aspx?CategoryID=1&MenuID=16&LanID=2

and look at the bottom of the pages. It's small but each one includes

"© 2004 Elitegroup Computer Systems. All Rights Reserved" (some are 2005)

Then go to the "legal" link to the right of it and find...

"Ownership of Materials
The information contained in this web site is copyrighted and may not be
copied, modified, reproduced, published, uploaded, posted, transmitted, or
distributed in whole or in part without the prior written permission of
ECS. Except as expressly provided herein, ECS does not grant any express or
implied right to you under any patents, copyrights, trademarks, or trade
secret information.
.
.
.
Trademark Information
PCCHIPS trademarks, service marks, or logos referenced in this site are the
property of ELITEGROUP COMPUTER SYSTEMS CO., LTD. PCCHIPS' trademarks or
logos may be used publicly with permission only from ELITEGROUP COMPUTER
SYSTEMS CO., LTD. All other products and company names mentioned in this
site may be claimed as the property of third parties."

That pretty much tells you who the parent is: the one you have to 'ask
permission' of.

 

[David Maynard]

I've intalled a couple of ECS boards in family systems, too, and have had
very good luck with them. My last system was an Athlon 64 3000+ box that I
put together last week for a guy at work using an ECS RS480:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135191

Perfect with no hassles (knocking on wood some more....)

I also built a Socket 754 box with a Sempron 64 3000+ (for the same guy's
mom) using an ECS 755-A2 board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135151

It too went off wthout a hitch.

Maybe I'm pushing my luck just a tad too far???

Well, ECS must be able to make something that works since they sell so many
of them but I've had bad luck. My first try was an ECS D6VAA dual P-III
motherboard and it just plain didn't work, nor did the replacement. Neither
would run my P-III 700 no matter what I did so I gave up and got a refund.

My next try was the K7S5A as a 'use up the spare parts' board since it
supported SDRAM. It exhibits the well known random 'CMOS checksum' problem
that has plagued the K7S5A since day 1 and ECS has steadfastly retained
this 'feature' in every revision all the way up to the Pro version that I
have. There's no known fix for it (regardless of the ones you might see
posted). The thing will just suddenly decide that, today, it'll scramble
the CMOS. Might do it again tomorrow, or wait a year. No way of knowing.

Mine also likes to power up with the on-board sound dead. A disable and
re-enable in device manager gets it back so it seems to be a similar kind
of power up timing issue like I suspect causes the CMOS scramble. This one,
too, is a 'maybe, maybe not' thing.

But at least it runs.

Oh, they added a new 'feature' with the 'Pro' version: the first PCI slot
doesn't work: some kind of conflict with the AGP port. Well, to be fair,
it's supposed to work if you don't have an APG display card (uh huh).

Now, I don't know if it's something funky with Promise Raid cards but mine
just flat won't work at all in the K7S5A no matter where I put it. Won't
even load it's BIOS so it's nothing but a slot filler in the K7S5A, as if
that were useful.

It's been rather well behaved lately so it'll probably blow the CMOS
tomorrow just to spite me for mentioning it.