PC 4GB RAM limit

[David Maynard]

David Maynard writes:




It is, in some cases. I'd still be running some of it if I weren't
forced to upgrade.

Well, tell the fellah with the gun pointed at your head that I said to back
off.

GUIs can use a lot less than the Windows GUI uses.

As Windows 3.1 demonstrates.

It performs a lot of
useless functions. There are many other useless services running on the
machine as well.

Not in the opinion of those that use them.

Currently I have 19 applications open, but there are
36 user processes in execution, and that doesn't count system threads.

So now you're going to argue that an 'application' may not be subdivided
into multiple processes and threads?

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard writes:




Most (if not all) Linux distributions are not even remotely close to
satisfying the requirements of mission-critical systems.

I didn't say they were. But that some Linux variants will not even run on
486s suggests that the differences are not as 'minor' as claimed.

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard writes:




The difference between the cost of the hardware (the cost to manufacture
it) and the price charged for it.

As long as you, and everyone else, understand that isn't the same thing
'profit' because your "cost to manufacture" doesn't cover the cost of
business and the real 'cost to manufacture'.

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard writes:




Not for any technical reasons.

Of course they are.

The 'technical' solution of separate primary and I/O processors costs more
than a single processor.

They don't meet the requirements of cars.

Precisely. And mainframes don't meet the requirements of a 'PC'.

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard writes:




Too bad that most of them aren't being done.

Except they are.

The extra power is used
mostly to drive bells and whistles.

Speak for yourself.

It depends on how it is used. It's 256 pages of text.

If '256 pages of text' is all you do then get one.

Which may explain why you don't see any use to the rest of what current
computers provide.

 

[David Maynard]

In the earlier days it certainly was NOT a buyers' market,
but even so, we can't ignore development costs.

Or distribution costs, capital cost, business overhead, manufacturing
equipment costs, infrastructure, sales, support, warranty, inventory,
documentation, regulatory, licensing, legal, management, and the rest.

We'll assume he meant to include assembly, test, QA, and rework labor in
the 'hardware costs' even though it wasn't explicitly mentioned.

 

[David Maynard]

... huge snip ...

I have no idea if you wrote anything worthwhile,

Which would tend to negate the validity of any evaluation of it.

but I don't think
a 400 line article has a place in usenet most of the time. I
suggest you snip it down to something short and one thought or
two. You can even generate additional threads for other thoughts.
Then you can even set follow-ups to appropriate places on those.

I could have, but I chose to keep it a coherent discourse.

 

[Phil Weldon]

I just bought a 512 Mbyte Compact Flash card for my camera. The card came
loaded with card test, defragmentation and file recovery programs. Should I
worry that this set of utilities takes up 2.4 MBytes of hard drive space?
That it requires a browser to read the manual?

Phil Weldon

 

[David Maynard]

I just bought a 512 Mbyte Compact Flash card for my camera. The card came
loaded with card test, defragmentation and file recovery programs. Should I
worry that this set of utilities takes up 2.4 MBytes of hard drive space?
That it requires a browser to read the manual?

Probably better to worry about the 'useless for text users' CF and camera
support, er 'bloat', built into XP

In this day and age where 'complaining' and "we don't need to know WHY"
seem to be considered 'virtues', a supplier simply can't win. The
proverbial 'they' will bitch if a CD is called for to load in "just what's
needed" yet bitch if it's pre-loaded so they don't have to.

 

[Phil Weldon]

Isn't there a 'install on first use' option for MS Office?
How about audio and video over Wi-Fi?
Should I worry that html and PDF manuals contain color pictures and screen
shots, rather than lean and mean text only?
Should I cut out Windows Media 10? How will I manage 4500 tunes, auto-build
play lists, keep track of cut info, transcode, ...?


I think I could write smaller code; maybe I should.... naaah, I think I'll
listen to music.How about audio and video over Wi-Fi? Should I worry that
html and PDF manuals contain color pictures and screen shots, rather than
lean and mean text only?

Phil Weldon

 

[Mxsmanic]

I didn't say they were. But that some Linux variants will not even run on
486s suggests that the differences are not as 'minor' as claimed.

Not really. It only takes a single use of a single instruction that
doesn't exist on the 486 to make the software incompatible, and it
doesn't surprise me that many Linux distributions might be this poorly
written.

 

[David Maynard]

Isn't there a 'install on first use' option for MS Office?

Yep, but then you have to go find the CD and put it in. *&%&$# Microsoft.

How about audio and video over Wi-Fi?
Should I worry that html and PDF manuals contain color pictures and screen
shots, rather than lean and mean text only?
Should I cut out Windows Media 10?

There's a school of thought that says yes

How will I manage 4500 tunes, auto-build
play lists, keep track of cut info, transcode, ...?

The 'easy way'. On the command line. You do grok grep don't you?

I think I could write smaller code; maybe I should.... naaah, I think I'll
listen to music.How about audio and video over Wi-Fi? Should I worry that
html and PDF manuals contain color pictures and screen shots, rather than
lean and mean text only?

Gotta be careful about pushing that pesky paste button more than once

 

[Phil Weldon]

Oops, hit the previous track button.

news:[email protected]...

 

[Mxsmanic]

Well, tell the fellah with the gun pointed at your head that I said to back
off.

Nobody has pointed a gun at my head. But changing anything on a
computer today often releases an avalanche of update and upgrade cycles
that force many software products to be changed whether one wishes to do
so or not. In some cases new hardware is required as well. And even
trivial changes can do this.

As Windows 3.1 demonstrates.
Exactly.

Not in the opinion of those that use them.

Those who use them are often a minority.

So now you're going to argue that an 'application' may not be subdivided
into multiple processes and threads?

No, I'm simply arguing that there is too much running on the system.

 

[Mxsmanic]

In the earlier days it certainly was NOT a buyers' market,
but even so, we can't ignore development costs.

It has never been a buyer's market in the mainframe business, as far as
I know.

 

[Mxsmanic]

We'll assume he meant to include assembly, test, QA, and rework labor in
the 'hardware costs' even though it wasn't explicitly mentioned.

I was including everything in it, yes.

 

[Mxsmanic]

As long as you, and everyone else, understand that isn't the same thing
'profit' because your "cost to manufacture" doesn't cover the cost of
business and the real 'cost to manufacture'.

Most of it was profit as well. The mainframe business is a major cash
cow.

 

[Mxsmanic]

Of course they are.

Not today. The hardware is not expensive to build.

The 'technical' solution of separate primary and I/O processors costs more
than a single processor.

Only marginally. They can be on the same board, although they probably
won't be.

Precisely. And mainframes don't meet the requirements of a 'PC'.

I was not suggesting that they replace PCs.

 

[Mxsmanic]

Except they are.

Not in the average desktop or laptop.

Speak for yourself.

I'm describing operating systems and applications, not myself.

If '256 pages of text' is all you do then get one.

Try typing that number of pages. It helps create an appreciation for
the real size of memory.

Four gigabytes is 1.6 million pages of text. Try typing that.

 

[Mxsmanic]

I just bought a 512 Mbyte Compact Flash card for my camera. The card came
loaded with card test, defragmentation and file recovery programs. Should I
worry that this set of utilities takes up 2.4 MBytes of hard drive space?
That it requires a browser to read the manual?

To some extent, yes, since it is a waste of resources. It depends on
how important such frills are to you, and on what other options exist.