RAM Not Recognized by BIOS

T

TVeblen

We are seeing more and more cases of new systems in which RAM modules
that are compatible by specification to a motherboard are not recognized
and freeze the system from booting unless a BIOS version upgrade is
performed.

This is new to me - getting a BIOS to recognize to-spec modules. I rehab
a lot of older systems and mix and match modules willy-nilly without
much issue. But I haven't built a new system since 2009 (X58) so
probably just a noob (once again). I get that this is now common, I'd
like to know why.

What is different in modern RAM modules, or modern motherboards or BIOS
that would make RAM unrecognized? The size? The chips?

(The case in point were two new 4GB modules - same voltage, speed, and
timings as the two 2G modules in the board already, dual channel board.
updating the BIOS and the modules were recognized).
 
D

Don Phillipson

What is different in modern RAM modules, or modern motherboards or BIOS
that would make RAM unrecognized? The size? The chips?

(The case in point were two new 4GB modules - same voltage, speed, and
timings as the two 2G modules in the board already, dual channel board.
updating the BIOS and the modules were recognized).
Click to expand...

This seems to say:
Comment: The OP's system with original BIOS failed to recognize
new RAM (within specifications) but "the modules were recognized"
after "updating the BIOS."
Question: Why did old BIOS (not dated here, say year 2005) fail
to recognize new RAM (say 2010) and why did 2010 BIOS
recognize 2010 RAM.

Is this what the OP meant to ask?
 
P

Paul

TVeblen said:
We are seeing more and more cases of new systems in which RAM modules
that are compatible by specification to a motherboard are not recognized
and freeze the system from booting unless a BIOS version upgrade is
performed.

This is new to me - getting a BIOS to recognize to-spec modules. I rehab
a lot of older systems and mix and match modules willy-nilly without
much issue. But I haven't built a new system since 2009 (X58) so
probably just a noob (once again). I get that this is now common, I'd
like to know why.

What is different in modern RAM modules, or modern motherboards or BIOS
that would make RAM unrecognized? The size? The chips?

(The case in point were two new 4GB modules - same voltage, speed, and
timings as the two 2G modules in the board already, dual channel board.
updating the BIOS and the modules were recognized).
Click to expand...

The SPD chip, should follow established JEDEC standards, whether a module
is newer or older. That's why JEDEC exists, to bring some order to things.

There are some geniuses, who have added unofficial extensions to
the SPD, but as far as I know, the design of the extension means
the "bonus parts" are ignored by BIOS not designed to read them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Presence_Detect

Enhanced Performance Profiles (EPP)

Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)

The BIOS does not have to pay attention to the SPD. The BIOS uses
peek and poke, to confirm module size (so if the SPD EEPROM chip
is coded to say a module contains 256MB and the module only has 128MB,
the BIOS can detect this and prevent a disaster). But I don't know
how the BIOS would handle the timing settings, if none were provided.
I suppose it can open up the timing parameters to max, and make
the memory extremely slow. I can't say I've run into a situation
like that, to find out.

So as far as I'm concerned, the BIOS should always have
some kind of answer to what it finds. Whether the SPD
checksums are corrupt, or some of the info doesn't make
sense, the BIOS can have code added to deal with it.

*******

Some BIOS designs, the code that handles memory, comes
from the processor manufacturer. For example, something like
an S939 system with AMD processor, the BIOS RAM handling code
may have been written by AMD. There was an issue with
"detecting matching modules" back in those days, where
some pairs of modules would "get ignored". And eventually,
via BIOS updates, it got fixed. Not all the code that
handles memory modules, necessarily comes from Award or
Phoenix or the like.

*******

To do your own researches, grab a tool like CPUZ, and use
the "dump" feature, to dump the SPD tables. Then, study
the 256 byte SPD table, to reach your own conclusions
as to why it failed. You'll need the appropriate JEDEC
document, to decode it all. (This example, is a DDR2 module)

CPU-Z TXT Report
...
Memory SPD
...
DIMM # 1
...
SPD registers
00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
00 80 08 08 0E 0A 61 40 00 05 30 45 00 82 08 00 00
10 0C 04 38 01 02 00 03 3D 50 50 60 3C 1E 3C 2D 80
20 20 27 10 17 3C 1E 1E 00 00 3C 69 80 18 22 00 00
30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 12 72
40 7F 98 00 00 00 00 00 00 04 39 39 43 35 33 31 36
50 2D 30 31 39 2E 41 30 30 4C 46 00 00 00 08 25 A9
60 1A 20 86 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
F0 39 39 43 35 33 31 36 2D 30 31 39 2E 41 30 30 4C

Using CPUZ is how you go about studying these things.

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

Use the "Save report" button here.

http://www.cpuid.com/medias/images/en/softwares-cpuz-07.jpg

Paul
 
F

Flasherly

We are seeing more and more cases of new systems in which RAM modules
that are compatible by specification to a motherboard are not recognized
and freeze the system from booting unless a BIOS version upgrade is
performed.

This is new to me - getting a BIOS to recognize to-spec modules. I rehab
a lot of older systems and mix and match modules willy-nilly without
much issue. But I haven't built a new system since 2009 (X58) so
probably just a noob (once again). I get that this is now common, I'd
like to know why.

What is different in modern RAM modules, or modern motherboards or BIOS
that would make RAM unrecognized? The size? The chips?

(The case in point were two new 4GB modules - same voltage, speed, and
timings as the two 2G modules in the board already, dual channel board.
updating the BIOS and the modules were recognized).
Click to expand...

Interesting. At one point, the last one over memory, I recall, Intel
and AMD motherboards with the same-class memory modules required
"approval" and the suitable memory part number from vendors, as to
which processor the RAM was intended to mate. Awhile back, perhaps
before SDRAM. . .PC100/150/200 maybe. Although, they'll tend to iron
out the kinks ASAP, the industry, to keep the marketing flowing
evenly. A flood of returned chips eating at narrow profit margins and
black spots quickly circulating on an otherwise good reputation can't
be too good for anyone a fast-paced world of the tec business.
 
T

TVeblen

Interesting. At one point, the last one over memory, I recall, Intel
and AMD motherboards with the same-class memory modules required
"approval" and the suitable memory part number from vendors, as to
which processor the RAM was intended to mate. Awhile back, perhaps
before SDRAM. . .PC100/150/200 maybe. Although, they'll tend to iron
out the kinks ASAP, the industry, to keep the marketing flowing
evenly. A flood of returned chips eating at narrow profit margins and
black spots quickly circulating on an otherwise good reputation can't
be too good for anyone a fast-paced world of the tec business.
Click to expand...

Hi gentlemen, thank you for responding to my post.

I'm sorry I was not more detailed in my description, but I really
thought that this might be a very common problem and that I was just
ignorant of it.

I was actually helping someone else. The "original" poster has since
solved the problem with the BIOS update and is off and happy. I wish I
had my hands on the system so I could run some tests. Perhaps I will
post and ask if he can run a CPU-Z dump but he did not seem particularly
experienced, I had to walk him through a step by step to flash the BIOS.

The system was an Asus M4A758TD-V EVO motherboard (dual channel - 4
slots) that originally had 2 x 2GB of 1.5v Crucial 240-pin DDR3 1333
(PC3 10600) RAM in it (4GB total).

He first removed the Crucial RAM and added 4 x 4GB (16GB) of 1.5v
G.Skill Ripjaw Series 240-pin DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) RAM. Upon doing so
the PC would no longer POST. Putting the old RAM back solved the problem.

He then RMA'd the Ripjaws and then tried adding 2 additional sticks to
the Crucial, this time 2 x 4GB 1.5v Kingston 240-pin DDR3 1333 (PC3
10600)- (12GB total). Same thing - no POST.

I suggested that he remove all the RAM and try each new stick, one at a
time, in slot A1 to test. No POST on any new stick, but will POST with
the old sticks.

It was actually the OP that suggested a BIOS problem. I was skeptical,
but went the the webpage for the motherboard and checked and sure enough
of the dozen or more updates since the original there were at least 3
that specifically listed RAM issues as one of the fixes.

He flashed to the most recent BIOS and now all 16GB of Ripsaw RAM is
recognized and working fine.

I'm still scratching my head in amazement. As I said, not my system -
can't experiment with it.
 
P

Paul

TVeblen said:
Hi gentlemen, thank you for responding to my post.

I'm sorry I was not more detailed in my description, but I really
thought that this might be a very common problem and that I was just
ignorant of it.

I was actually helping someone else. The "original" poster has since
solved the problem with the BIOS update and is off and happy. I wish I
had my hands on the system so I could run some tests. Perhaps I will
post and ask if he can run a CPU-Z dump but he did not seem particularly
experienced, I had to walk him through a step by step to flash the BIOS.

The system was an Asus M4A758TD-V EVO motherboard (dual channel - 4
slots) that originally had 2 x 2GB of 1.5v Crucial 240-pin DDR3 1333
(PC3 10600) RAM in it (4GB total).

He first removed the Crucial RAM and added 4 x 4GB (16GB) of 1.5v
G.Skill Ripjaw Series 240-pin DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) RAM. Upon doing so
the PC would no longer POST. Putting the old RAM back solved the problem.

He then RMA'd the Ripjaws and then tried adding 2 additional sticks to
the Crucial, this time 2 x 4GB 1.5v Kingston 240-pin DDR3 1333 (PC3
10600)- (12GB total). Same thing - no POST.

I suggested that he remove all the RAM and try each new stick, one at a
time, in slot A1 to test. No POST on any new stick, but will POST with
the old sticks.

It was actually the OP that suggested a BIOS problem. I was skeptical,
but went the the webpage for the motherboard and checked and sure enough
of the dozen or more updates since the original there were at least 3
that specifically listed RAM issues as one of the fixes.

He flashed to the most recent BIOS and now all 16GB of Ripsaw RAM is
recognized and working fine.

I'm still scratching my head in amazement. As I said, not my system -
can't experiment with it.
Click to expand...

Have this person run CPUZ, collect the report, and post the SPD table
on the RAM. Even with the now working computer, the troublesome SPD
tables will still be available for analysis. And you can collect them
with CPUZ.

Paul
 
T

TVeblen

Have this person run CPUZ, collect the report, and post the SPD table
on the RAM. Even with the now working computer, the troublesome SPD
tables will still be available for analysis. And you can collect them
with CPUZ.

Paul
Click to expand...

Hi Paul
I posted a request of OP in the forum. We'll see if he chooses to respond.
Thanks for all your info!
 
R

Rodney Pont

Have this person run CPUZ, collect the report, and post the SPD table
on the RAM. Even with the now working computer, the troublesome SPD
tables will still be available for analysis. And you can collect them
with CPUZ.
Click to expand...

Maybe the old BIOS just couldn't handle 4GB ram sticks, the original
ones were 2GB.
 
L

Loren Pechtel

We are seeing more and more cases of new systems in which RAM modules
that are compatible by specification to a motherboard are not recognized
and freeze the system from booting unless a BIOS version upgrade is
performed.

This is new to me - getting a BIOS to recognize to-spec modules. I rehab
a lot of older systems and mix and match modules willy-nilly without
much issue. But I haven't built a new system since 2009 (X58) so
probably just a noob (once again). I get that this is now common, I'd
like to know why.

What is different in modern RAM modules, or modern motherboards or BIOS
that would make RAM unrecognized? The size? The chips?

(The case in point were two new 4GB modules - same voltage, speed, and
timings as the two 2G modules in the board already, dual channel board.
updating the BIOS and the modules were recognized).
Click to expand...

I've seen it multiple times even before 2009. It's always been
cheaper memory that has the problem. I've never seen it with the good
stuff.
 

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