J
B
badgolferman
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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=
John Jay Smith said:
You must have been typing and editing all night.
R
Rodney Reason
Gee, if it was printed in a blog, it *must* be true.
RR
B
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
The author fails to understand the religious nature of top and bottom
posting. The article will further convince those who already believe
and will give ammunition to those who think it's the work of the devil.
Sermons will be given, breasts beaten and evildoers condemned. In the
long run, as with religion, nobody's mind will change.
Bill T.
who is sometimes a bi-poster
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
The author fails to understand the religious nature of top and bottom
posting. The article will further convince those who already believe
and will give ammunition to those who think it's the work of the devil.
Sermons will be given, breasts beaten and evildoers condemned. In the
long run, as with religion, nobody's mind will change.
Bill T.
who is sometimes a bi-poster
E
elaich
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in
Yep, since I just killfiled you.
Yep, since I just killfiled you.
C
Craig
Rodney said:
Looks like a testimonial for regenerating hair-growth. Too funny.
-Craig
J
John Corliss
Frankly, I've always thought that top posting makes more sense.
Top Posting vs. Bottom Posting: Case Closed!
Dr. Schneider head of ECDL Research, study for human – computer
interaction said:
After the request from the European ECDL program (European Computer
Driving License), our computer science team (that included 10 of the top
computer scientists in Europe) conducted a study that involved 1200
people of an age group, from 16 to 60 in a period of 9 months to test
the speed in which they use various applications and the internet. One
of the subjects we studied closely was to see if top or bottom posting
in newsgroup environments is the best method of posting.
Some of the test included brain scans with MRI while the user was
interacting with the computer to see the brain activity in real time,
along with various sensors for body reactions. After the tests were
finished they asked the participants to answer a list of questions. ”Out
test lab consisted of a network of 20 windows XP and Linux machines
connected to a 20 M internet connection, fast enough to ensure that
there would be no delay from the transfer of information.
What we saw was astonishing!
The people who top posted were more efficient in every manner. Their
speed of reading and replying to post was 20% faster since they did not
have to scroll all the time to the bottom of the page, those who were
new users found it more natural to top post. After each session
questions was asked to each user to verify if they had comprehended the
nature of the threads. It was remarkable to see that the top posting
group comprehended the threads 10% better and could recall more of the
information in comparisson with the bottom posting group. The
physiological and mental measurements also showed that the brain
functioned more harmonious when top posting, and the blood pressure and
heart rate were are more normal levels, showing that the users had less
stress.Another measurement done was the stress placed on the hand, the
so called Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Since top posting needed less movement
on the hand to scroll with bars or use the scroll wheel we would see a
great improvement in this area.
After this study I think that we have to conclude that top posting in
newsgroups is better in every way, as long as they follow the simple
rule to include small parts of the previous message only when needed.
The previous conception that top posting would be confusing to readers
since it had new information on the top and older information on the
bottom, did not stand. It seems that the users who top post adapt to
this very fast.
The new windows vista that is due to be released at the beginning of
2007 will have some newsgroups pre installed in the news client, so more
and more people will be using newsgroups. Fortunately the windows mail
client places the cursor on top, so top posting will come naturally to
more and more people. Several Linux distributions are considering
modifying their news clients to confirm with our new data.
The reason for bottom posting began when the internet was very young and
slow, with low resolution screens. It is time to change the way we
interact with the internet leaving the older dinosaur habits behind.I
won’t be surprised to see HTML messages with embedded audio images and
video be commonplace in the near future. These are all considered still
forbidden in newsgroups.”
--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls like Andy Mabbett or Doc (who uses sock puppets)
for instance. No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware,
demoware, nagware, PROmotionware, shareware, spyware, time-limited
software, trialware, viruses or warez for me, please.
Top Posting vs. Bottom Posting: Case Closed!
Dr. Schneider head of ECDL Research, study for human – computer
interaction said:
After the request from the European ECDL program (European Computer
Driving License), our computer science team (that included 10 of the top
computer scientists in Europe) conducted a study that involved 1200
people of an age group, from 16 to 60 in a period of 9 months to test
the speed in which they use various applications and the internet. One
of the subjects we studied closely was to see if top or bottom posting
in newsgroup environments is the best method of posting.
Some of the test included brain scans with MRI while the user was
interacting with the computer to see the brain activity in real time,
along with various sensors for body reactions. After the tests were
finished they asked the participants to answer a list of questions. ”Out
test lab consisted of a network of 20 windows XP and Linux machines
connected to a 20 M internet connection, fast enough to ensure that
there would be no delay from the transfer of information.
What we saw was astonishing!
The people who top posted were more efficient in every manner. Their
speed of reading and replying to post was 20% faster since they did not
have to scroll all the time to the bottom of the page, those who were
new users found it more natural to top post. After each session
questions was asked to each user to verify if they had comprehended the
nature of the threads. It was remarkable to see that the top posting
group comprehended the threads 10% better and could recall more of the
information in comparisson with the bottom posting group. The
physiological and mental measurements also showed that the brain
functioned more harmonious when top posting, and the blood pressure and
heart rate were are more normal levels, showing that the users had less
stress.Another measurement done was the stress placed on the hand, the
so called Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Since top posting needed less movement
on the hand to scroll with bars or use the scroll wheel we would see a
great improvement in this area.
After this study I think that we have to conclude that top posting in
newsgroups is better in every way, as long as they follow the simple
rule to include small parts of the previous message only when needed.
The previous conception that top posting would be confusing to readers
since it had new information on the top and older information on the
bottom, did not stand. It seems that the users who top post adapt to
this very fast.
The new windows vista that is due to be released at the beginning of
2007 will have some newsgroups pre installed in the news client, so more
and more people will be using newsgroups. Fortunately the windows mail
client places the cursor on top, so top posting will come naturally to
more and more people. Several Linux distributions are considering
modifying their news clients to confirm with our new data.
The reason for bottom posting began when the internet was very young and
slow, with low resolution screens. It is time to change the way we
interact with the internet leaving the older dinosaur habits behind.I
won’t be surprised to see HTML messages with embedded audio images and
video be commonplace in the near future. These are all considered still
forbidden in newsgroups.”
--
Regards from John Corliss
I don't reply to trolls like Andy Mabbett or Doc (who uses sock puppets)
for instance. No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware,
demoware, nagware, PROmotionware, shareware, spyware, time-limited
software, trialware, viruses or warez for me, please.
B
Ben Rudiak-Gould
This is a false dichotomy. Nobody wants bottom posting. What they want is
for people to quote edited excerpts from the parent post followed by their
response, so that it takes the form of a conversation (with a smaller
conversational unit than a whole post). If your post starts with so much
quoted text that you have to scroll down to read the reply, you're doing it
wrong.
-- Ben
for people to quote edited excerpts from the parent post followed by their
response, so that it takes the form of a conversation (with a smaller
conversational unit than a whole post). If your post starts with so much
quoted text that you have to scroll down to read the reply, you're doing it
wrong.
-- Ben
M
Morten Skarstad
John Jay Smith skrev:
"The physiological and mental measurements also showed that the brain
functioned more harmonious when top posting, and the blood pressure and
heart rate were are more normal levels, showing that the users had less
stress."
Not to mention the stress levels of bottom posters reading top posted
posts ;o)
"The physiological and mental measurements also showed that the brain
functioned more harmonious when top posting, and the blood pressure and
heart rate were are more normal levels, showing that the users had less
stress."
Not to mention the stress levels of bottom posters reading top posted
posts ;o)
D
Duddits
heh -I kf'd him a few days ago when he began his troll.
Dud
J
John Jay Smith
let me GreenFile you then
Duddits said:
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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=
No, he understands that much, which is why he set up a blog account to
host that then posted the link to it. He's attracted to holy wars
(this one, Browser War II, Linux v. Windows) because they make it easy
for him to troll.
A
Al Klein
Yep, top posting is better than bottom posting, but posting the
response immediately after what's being responded to (interleaved
posting?) is the natural way to read.
Any "scientific" test can be run so that the outcome proves anything
the people running the test want it to prove.
A
Al Klein
That certainly settles the question for all time, doesn't it?
A
Al Klein
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 01:56:56 +0300, "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote:
[posting order corrected]
[posted so Dud can start his weekend with a laugh]
[posting order corrected]
[posted so Dud can start his weekend with a laugh]
J
John Fitzsimons
Added to that it makes no difference what a blog page says. Some
people here will do their best not to help people who constantly top
post.
R
Ron May
Now that actually makes sense.
In my experience, most usenet groups follow the bottom-posting method
because of the conversational flow. Occasionally, if a reply can
stand on its own WITHOUT quoting, but the original text is included
merely for a reference, then top-posting is usually no big deal and
ordinarily will not draw much fire.
In an ongoing thread, however, if some top-post and some bottom-post,
it becomes nearly impossible to follow the message. Best that most
participants agree on which way to go from the start and stay with it.
Except for cases when you scroll down a hundred lines only to see a
one-line reply (which is really a matter of inconsiderate editing) the
only compelling reason for top posting is that Outlook and OE handle
emails that way for some reason unknown to me.
At work, I get perhaps a dozen or more technical emails every day that
have been forwarded several times. Scrolling down through several
"FYI's" and "Please cascade to appropriate people" etc., along with
all the "TO:" and "CC:" addresses along the way, I eventually get to
the original message, read it, then scroll back up to the top through
each "FWD:" to see if there's anything relevant to the main message.
If Outlook would have adopted "bottom posting" from the start, it
would have IMHO made things much easier for all concerned.
A
Al Klein
In a business email environment, top posting makes sense. No
scrolling to see your boss' "Please get back to me by 3 today" at the
top.
My question is why they changed a perfectly useless email client into
an even more useless Usenet client? The programmer who actually had
some Usenet experience was home sick that day?
E
elaich
No: in the Microsoft world, top posting is the norm.
It's one thing when you are having a one on one conversation with
somebody, like an email. You remember exactly what the guy said last, so
posting your response at the top is normal.
However, on Usenet, dozens of people may respond to the comment. That's
why the correct way to post is to quote the part you are responding to,
and post your reply at the bottom. Then, everybody knows what you are
talking about.
However, as mentioned before, it's Outhouse and Outhouse Express that
encourages top posting by it's very format. They both also encourage
improper quoting by automatically quoting the entire thread up to that
point.
If the user installs QuoteFix, the problem becomes worse, as now Outhouse
will quote the entire article before posting the inane one line comment
at the very bottom.
I have become very intolerant of it. I now tend to killfile top posters
about the second time I see them. They almost never have anything of
value to add to begin with. I now killfile one liners at the bottom of
long quotes at first sight.
It's the old saw - "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." Usenet and it's
accepted posting etiquette were both here before any form of Outhouse,
and practically before any form of Microsoft. If someone can't be
bothered to learn the rules of the game before playing, they should be
booted. And, I've noticed that a lot of the top post advocates have a
sneering attitude, like they are intentionally stirring the pot.
Unfortunately for them, after a short while, they end up basically
talking to themselves.