OT: Top Posting Vs. Bottom Posting: Case Closed!

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Jay Smith
  • Start date Start date
Al said:
That certainly settles the question for all time, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Of course not. However, I'm entitled to express my opinion and that just
happens to be it.

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I don't reply to trolls like Andy Mabbett or Doc (who uses sock puppets)
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software, trialware, viruses or warez for me, please.
 
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:07:20 -0500, Ron May wrote...
Except for cases when you scroll down a hundred lines only to see a
one-line reply (which is really a matter of inconsiderate editing) the
only compelling reason for top posting is that Outlook and OE handle
emails that way for some reason unknown to me.
Click to expand...

I always took it that the cursor starts at the top NOT to encourage top-
posting but to get you set and ready to start snipping superfluous text.

You don't start snipping at the bottom after all!
 
elaich said:
No: in the Microsoft world, top posting is the norm.

It's one thing when you are having a one on one conversation with
somebody, like an email. You remember exactly what the guy said last,
so posting your response at the top is normal.

However, on Usenet, dozens of people may respond to the comment.
That's why the correct way to post is to quote the part you are
responding to, and post your reply at the bottom. Then, everybody
knows what you are talking about.

However, as mentioned before, it's Outhouse and Outhouse Express that
encourages top posting by it's very format. They both also encourage
improper quoting by automatically quoting the entire thread up to
that point.

If the user installs QuoteFix, the problem becomes worse, as now
Outhouse will quote the entire article before posting the inane one
line comment at the very bottom.

I have become very intolerant of it. I now tend to killfile top
posters about the second time I see them. They almost never have
anything of value to add to begin with. I now killfile one liners at
the bottom of long quotes at first sight.

It's the old saw - "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." Usenet and
it's accepted posting etiquette were both here before any form of
Outhouse, and practically before any form of Microsoft. If someone
can't be bothered to learn the rules of the game before playing, they
should be booted. And, I've noticed that a lot of the top post
advocates have a sneering attitude, like they are intentionally
stirring the pot. Unfortunately for them, after a short while, they
end up basically talking to themselves.
Click to expand...


Hi elaich!



Well, but if 'digitally' is assumed to be more handy and praktical, I
cannot understand my stupid behaviour to scroll my poor Wheel Mouse
Otical USB-wheel nearly on any reply to a thread, where already checked
what is going on. :-)

But so are rules, you may respect them.




Best Regards,

Daniel Mandic
 
I always took it that the cursor starts at the top NOT to encourage top-
posting but to get you set and ready to start snipping superfluous text.
Click to expand...
You don't start snipping at the bottom after all!
Click to expand...

Agreed. But many people using OE are too lazy to step through a
post/email inserting comments and deleting irrelevant info.

What OE needs is an option to start at the end of a previous post
OR at the beginning. Many haven't discovered their CTRL + end
keys yet.

Regards, John.

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v http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/
 
Paul said:
I always took it that the cursor starts at the top NOT to encourage top-
posting but to get you set and ready to start snipping superfluous text.
Click to expand...

Well said.

Another thing:

Good software lets you select a few lines before you start replying, so
you come into the msg edistor with a few lines of quotes and the cursor
below those two lines.

The good way to respond to a msg is to:

1 select the sentence you are replying to.
2 click the Reply button.
3 inside the editor you find yourself at the cursor, below the few
lines you selected before pushing the reply button.

That's how good email and usenet software should work.
Many programs are working like this, but people do not even know about
it.
 
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

John said:
What OE needs is an option to start at the end of a previous post
OR at the beginning.
Click to expand...



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

What OE needs even worse is the ability to highlight part of the
original message and have that and only that copied into the reply.
Eudora and Agent do it perfectly, and probably others too.

Bill T.
 
Bill said:
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:





*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

What OE needs even worse is the ability to highlight part of the
original message and have that and only that copied into the reply.
Eudora and Agent do it perfectly, and probably others too.

Bill T.
Click to expand...

Eudora does Usenet? When did this start?

By the way, your Xananews does it also, even though it is an older
version.
 
Ben said:
This is a false dichotomy. Nobody wants bottom posting. What they
want is for people to quote edited excerpts from the parent post
followed by their response, so that it takes the form of a
conversation (with a smaller conversational unit than a whole post).
If your post starts with so much quoted text that you have to scroll
down to read the reply, you're doing it wrong.

-- Ben
Click to expand...

They would also like a portion of the post you are responding to to
appear in your reply. You are not leading by example.
 
elaich said:
news:[email protected]:
Click to expand...
No: in the Microsoft world, top posting is the norm.

It's one thing when you are having a one on one conversation with
somebody, like an email. You remember exactly what the guy said last,
so posting your response at the top is normal.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with this assesment.
However, on Usenet, dozens of people may respond to the comment.
That's why the correct way to post is to quote the part you are
responding to, and post your reply at the bottom. Then, everybody
knows what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

This is true also and makes a great argument as to why bottom-posting
is superior for Usenet.
However, as mentioned before, it's Outhouse and Outhouse Express that
encourages top posting by it's very format. They both also encourage
improper quoting by automatically quoting the entire thread up to
that point.

If the user installs QuoteFix, the problem becomes worse, as now
Outhouse will quote the entire article before posting the inane one
line comment at the very bottom.
Click to expand...

I think OE-QuoteFix is a great piece of software enhancement for OE
since it actually has an option for bottom-posting. In addition it
color-quotes conversations and corrects the breaking up of lines. If
Quotefix had been incorporated into OE from the beginning it would
prevent a majority of gripes non-OE users have.
I have become very intolerant of it. I now tend to killfile top
posters about the second time I see them. They almost never have
anything of value to add to begin with. I now killfile one liners at
the bottom of long quotes at first sight.
Click to expand...

I'll deal with either kind. Since I don't hide read messages and keep
threads in tree view it's not a big deal to click on the previous post
to see what was said before the top-poster replied to it. I will admit
that people who don't snip useless text annoy me. But I also think
killfiling is wimpy way of dealing with people, especially since their
remarks will be seen in any replies to them. The worst is when someone
announces they have killfiled someone. That's just a holier-than-thou
response to garner attention.
And, I've noticed that a lot of the top post
advocates have a sneering attitude,
Click to expand...

I actually see this attitude from bottom-posters more often.
 
Agreed. But many people using OE are too lazy to step through a
post/email inserting comments and deleting irrelevant info.
Click to expand...

Is that meant to imply that using OE makes one lazy? Or that lazy
people tend to use OE?

EVERYONE'S cursor starts at the top of the post. Everyone who posts
correctly (read: the way it's been done since before you heard of
Usenet) starts out the same - it just seems as if some of us know how
conversations work, while others wait until the other person has
finished everything he's going to say, then reply to everything at
once. Whether they post that at the top or the bottom makes no
difference - either way makes no sense.
What OE needs is an option to start at the end of a previous post
OR at the beginning. Many haven't discovered their CTRL + end
keys yet.
Click to expand...

Starting at the bottom is ridiculous. You seem to be of the
(misguided) impression that the only two choices are top posting and
bottom posting.
 
The good way to respond to a msg is to:
Click to expand...
1 select the sentence you are replying to.
2 click the Reply button.
3 inside the editor you find yourself at the cursor, below the few
lines you selected before pushing the reply button.
Click to expand...
That's how good email and usenet software should work.
Click to expand...

That's all well and good if you're replying to just a few lines, but
not if you're replying to a post that may be 3 paragraphs long, and
you're replying to each one in turn.

Of course you can do it that way for any post to which you're not
replying to the entire post, but it's just as easy to highlight the
parts you want to snip and hit delete. That way works regardless of
how much of the post you want copied to the editor.
 
Roger Johansson - 23.04.2006 02:09 :
That's how good email and usenet software should work.
Click to expand...

not only that but even good email and usenet USERS. A good usenet
behavior, essential for a good comunication, is not what`s interesting
most of the people in these days. Most I personally disagree is not only
top-posting (arguments have been discussed). Well, if somebody "must"
top-post, I can/must live with, BUT unnecessary full-quoting again and
again is a widespreaded undisciplined absurdity especially not only to
childish, ungrown, unlearnable lazy people or relative newbies confusing
usenet/NGs with chatrooms.

Another misbehavior, IMHO:

1. is top-posting with a sig-delimiter directly after the top-post AND
further then fullquoting within the siglines (should be not more than 4
lines)

2. using other quoting markers as ">". So postings, especially within
longer threads. become more and more confusing/unreadble because of a
mixture of ">, |, #, :" and so on

3. OT and flaming
 
Ben Rudiak-Gould - 21.04.2006 23:16 :

This is a false dichotomy. Nobody wants bottom posting.
Click to expand...

Are you shure? Read further in this thread and especially what the more
"regulars" are thinking.
 
Al Klein skrev:
In a business email environment, top posting makes sense. No
scrolling to see your boss' "Please get back to me by 3 today" at the
top.
Click to expand...

Top posting in an e-mail (I see no distinction between business or
personal) does not make sense if the mail contains multiple points which
should be replied to separately. I much prefer usenet-style replies with
indented paragraphs from the original mail, with replies after each and
every paragraph.

Too bad some business related software (such as Lotus Notes, ew!) makes
this very difficult. You wont believe the messy e-mails I have seen,
especially when the conversation has gone back and forth a few times,
with multiple recipients and CCs added and removed along the way.
 
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