OT: In Defense of Doom 3

[Chalky]

Here are my opinions on some matters relating to Doom 3.

1. The Flashlight

In my opinion, when a person sits down to play a video game, he or she
must be willing to suspend disbelief while playing so that the game can be
enjoyed. This means that if a particular element of a game is not handled
as realistically as it could be, it isn't necessarily a flaw--games are not
supposed to perfectly mirror reality. If they did, they would all be
similar and we probably wouldn't want to play them.

All games represent a departure from "reality" in some way. Indeed,
when the time comes for us to actually colonize mars, open portals, and
combat the legions of hell, we will probably have some nightvision goggles
or a tactical light to strap on our weapons to make it much easier.
However, there is no reason why a game cannot deny us these things to alter
the gameplay experience. Sweeping a room with a flashlight to look for
enemies and then switching back to your gun to fight them in a dark room is
a different game than running around with a light that is always on. With
the flashlight set to an easy to reach key on your keyboard it is easy to
toggle back and fourth, and in my opinion, fun. In Doom 3, you have to
fight the forces of hell in a dark nasty place where sometimes it is hard to
see--that's the game. If you want goggles and sunlight, go play Far
Cry--you can play both and probably should if you have the time. There is
no reason why someone with atleast 7 working fingers can't get the
flashlight thing working for them. It is supposed to be dark!

2. The gameplay is simple
Doom 3's gameplay is simpler than Far Cry. You don't need to lay down
in the prone position and you really don't need to lean around corners in
Doom 3. The enemies aren't that smart in Doom 3. They run at you out of
the dark screaming like banshees--just shoot them. That is all Doom ever
was about and that is what this game is about, more or less. If it was any
more complicated it probably wouldn't be called Doom 3. After playing Far
Cry this is a refreshing change--actually, a bold move by id.

3. It reminds me of other games I've played, namely, Half-Life
No game is entirely original. Before Doom there was Castle Wolfenstein.
Then there was Quake and Quake 2 and blah blah blah. Id software wrote the
book on first person shooters, but then you have Half-Life (an evolved doom,
if you will?) Jedi Knight, Quake, Quake 2, Unreal, Quake 3, and now Doom 3.
None of those games were that original. All of them borrowed from sci-fi
fiction and the basic premise is that something goes wrong at some facility
and all hell breaks loose. Or, you get stranded somewhere really weird. It
is a genre. The story is just an excuse to go around shooting things.

4. The story sucks

Ships coming to take the forces of hell back to earth is no better or worse
a premise than any other first person game. They are all rediculous. Even
the best video game story lines would probably be too stupid for a direct to
sci fi channel movie. One day, when the game industry is even more ginormous
than it is today, "real" actors and studios may sign on to polish things up,
but for the time being, rent a movie or get a good book if you want story.
If the cut scenes aren't your thing, press escape and skip them.

My 2 cents.

~Chalky

 

[JJO]

In short I agree and find the game holds my attention without a problem. I
think that you have to take it for what it is, a great remake of the
original but much spookier. You know that a meanie is coming after you pick
up armor or on the other side of a door but it makes for that fear factor
getting ready to face the danger. I mean one small example. I know that I
found it great and broke a cold sweat so to speak, the first time I ran into
a pinky. That sequence was great at the door. Take it for what it is and
just keep the ammo coming...real easy to run out and find yourself down to
the pistol.

Regards,
JJO

Here are my opinions on some matters relating to Doom 3.

<snip>

 

[Blahguy]

Here are my opinions on some matters relating to Doom 3.

1. The Flashlight

In my opinion, when a person sits down to play a video game, he or she
must be willing to suspend disbelief while playing so that the game can be
enjoyed. This means that if a particular element of a game is not handled
as realistically as it could be, it isn't necessarily a flaw--games are not
supposed to perfectly mirror reality. If they did, they would all be
similar and we probably wouldn't want to play them.

All games represent a departure from "reality" in some way. Indeed,
when the time comes for us to actually colonize mars, open portals, and
combat the legions of hell, we will probably have some nightvision goggles
or a tactical light to strap on our weapons to make it much easier.
However, there is no reason why a game cannot deny us these things to alter
the gameplay experience. Sweeping a room with a flashlight to look for
enemies and then switching back to your gun to fight them in a dark room is
a different game than running around with a light that is always on. With
the flashlight set to an easy to reach key on your keyboard it is easy to
toggle back and fourth, and in my opinion, fun. In Doom 3, you have to
fight the forces of hell in a dark nasty place where sometimes it is hard to
see--that's the game. If you want goggles and sunlight, go play Far
Cry--you can play both and probably should if you have the time. There is
no reason why someone with atleast 7 working fingers can't get the
flashlight thing working for them. It is supposed to be dark!

2. The gameplay is simple
Doom 3's gameplay is simpler than Far Cry. You don't need to lay down
in the prone position and you really don't need to lean around corners in
Doom 3. The enemies aren't that smart in Doom 3. They run at you out of
the dark screaming like banshees--just shoot them. That is all Doom ever
was about and that is what this game is about, more or less. If it was any
more complicated it probably wouldn't be called Doom 3. After playing Far
Cry this is a refreshing change--actually, a bold move by id.

3. It reminds me of other games I've played, namely, Half-Life
No game is entirely original. Before Doom there was Castle Wolfenstein.
Then there was Quake and Quake 2 and blah blah blah. Id software wrote the
book on first person shooters, but then you have Half-Life (an evolved doom,
if you will?) Jedi Knight, Quake, Quake 2, Unreal, Quake 3, and now Doom 3.
None of those games were that original. All of them borrowed from sci-fi
fiction and the basic premise is that something goes wrong at some facility
and all hell breaks loose. Or, you get stranded somewhere really weird. It
is a genre. The story is just an excuse to go around shooting things.

4. The story sucks

Ships coming to take the forces of hell back to earth is no better or worse
a premise than any other first person game. They are all rediculous. Even
the best video game story lines would probably be too stupid for a direct to
sci fi channel movie. One day, when the game industry is even more ginormous
than it is today, "real" actors and studios may sign on to polish things up,
but for the time being, rent a movie or get a good book if you want story.
If the cut scenes aren't your thing, press escape and skip them.

My 2 cents.

~Chalky

Sorry I thought you had just spelt "defence" incorrectly, but "defense" must
mean something entirly different, like "I know this game is crap, and heres
why that isn't such a bad thing."
BTW you forgot Dark Forces in your brief history of FPS.

 

[GTD]

Here are my opinions on some matters relating to Doom 3.

1. The Flashlight

In my opinion, when a person sits down to play a video game, he or she
must be willing to suspend disbelief while playing so that the game can be
enjoyed. This means that if a particular element of a game is not handled
as realistically as it could be, it isn't necessarily a flaw--games are not
supposed to perfectly mirror reality. If they did, they would all be
similar and we probably wouldn't want to play them.

IMO, the idea of making a good game is to not HAVE to suspend and more
disbelief than is nessisary. Suspending disbelief to some degrees is
OK, but when the outcome is just plain stupid and makes things more of
a pain than anything else, it kills the game to many. I understand
what you're saying about switching to the flashlight, But to me, it
would have been much more enjoyable if a person didn't HAVE to. I mean
really, You're given some huge, insanely powered weapon that
absoloutly HAS to be weilded with TWO hands, but you can't use the
flashlight and the pistol at the same time? The point is that the game
doesn't fit itself very well: EVERY computer terminal has power, but
NONE of the lights do? C'mon, at lease SOMETHING in a game should make
sense.

All games represent a departure from "reality" in some way. Indeed,
when the time comes for us to actually colonize mars, open portals, and
combat the legions of hell, we will probably have some nightvision goggles
or a tactical light to strap on our weapons to make it much easier.
However, there is no reason why a game cannot deny us these things to alter
the gameplay experience. Sweeping a room with a flashlight to look for
enemies and then switching back to your gun to fight them in a dark room is
a different game than running around with a light that is always on. With
the flashlight set to an easy to reach key on your keyboard it is easy to
toggle back and fourth, and in my opinion, fun. In Doom 3, you have to
fight the forces of hell in a dark nasty place where sometimes it is hard to
see--that's the game. If you want goggles and sunlight, go play Far
Cry--you can play both and probably should if you have the time. There is
no reason why someone with atleast 7 working fingers can't get the
flashlight thing working for them. It is supposed to be dark!

Yea, a game that requires a top-end video card so a person can look at
a near completely black screen. Is it me or does this sound absurd.

2. The gameplay is simple
Doom 3's gameplay is simpler than Far Cry. You don't need to lay down
in the prone position and you really don't need to lean around corners in
Doom 3. The enemies aren't that smart in Doom 3.

That's a big part of the problem: We seem to be going BACKWARD with
this game. Less intelligent enemies, samller, cramped areas, and
graphics that do not IMHO make up for those shortcomings in any way.

They run at you out of
the dark screaming like banshees--just shoot them. That is all Doom ever
was about and that is what this game is about, more or less. If it was any
more complicated it probably wouldn't be called Doom 3. After playing Far
Cry this is a refreshing change--actually, a bold move by id.

Then they should have named the game "Welcome back to 1995". What I
was expecting was in-your-face graphics, more enemies that were
smarter, newer and more advanced weapons, a varying array of
environments, and great sound effects and music. After all, That;s
generally what was advertised (more orless), but IMO, this game failed
in every respect. At least in the origonal doom the maps were not
completely linier.

3. It reminds me of other games I've played, namely, Half-Life
No game is entirely original. Before Doom there was Castle Wolfenstein.
Then there was Quake and Quake 2 and blah blah blah. Id software wrote the
book on first person shooters, but then you have Half-Life (an evolved doom,
if you will?) Jedi Knight, Quake, Quake 2, Unreal, Quake 3, and now Doom 3.
None of those games were that original. All of them borrowed from sci-fi
fiction and the basic premise is that something goes wrong at some facility
and all hell breaks loose. Or, you get stranded somewhere really weird. It
is a genre. The story is just an excuse to go around shooting things.

True, but it seems any successful game expands on other sucessful
games. This one didn't, it takes an 11 or 12 year old game and makes
it 3D, and actually stifled a few of the origonal doom's qualities.

4. The story sucks


Ships coming to take the forces of hell back to earth is no better or worse
a premise than any other first person game.

I disagree. Half-Life, Opfor, Deus Ex, Chaser, Max Payne, Mafia, and a
few others have storylines that at least add up in their own way. Even
UT's lack of story line makes it IMHO better, because it's so simple.
I don't know that I'd say that the story behind D3 is the worst out
there, it IMHO, was a solid effort on id's part. There are just too
many annoyances to get by.

They are all rediculous. Even
the best video game story lines would probably be too stupid for a direct to
sci fi channel movie. One day, when the game industry is even more ginormous
than it is today, "real" actors and studios may sign on to polish things up,
but for the time being, rent a movie or get a good book if you want story.

That's what many people are doing, and the entire point of every post
that is bashing ID and their abortion.

If the cut scenes aren't your thing, press escape and skip them.


My 2 cents.

~Chalky

You should start drinking prune juice and KY jelly cocktails right now,
that will make things a lot smoother.
-Felatio Love

 

[Inglo]

Sorry I thought you had just spelt "defence" incorrectly, but "defense" must
mean something entirly different, like "I know this game is crap, and heres
why that isn't such a bad thing."
BTW you forgot Dark Forces in your brief history of FPS.

go away little boy.

 

[Chalky]

Sorry I thought you had just spelt "defence" incorrectly, but "defense"
must

mean something entirly different, like "I know this game is crap, and heres
why that isn't such a bad thing."
BTW you forgot Dark Forces in your brief history of FPS.

My spelling is correct, and my intention is not to defend a game because it
is crap, but rather because it is a very good game that is being highly
criticized. My audience is not those who do not like the game, but those who
are in the market for a new game and are considering Doom 3. I recommend it.

Also, I didn't forget Dark Forces, I omitted it because I didn't want my
list to drag on too long. It was a really great game though!

Chalky

 

[johns]

I'm just not going to buy it. I've been watching the
European games develop over time, and they show
a lot of imagination. True they need better coders or
better game engines. I don't know which. But their
games are becoming an art form and true entertainment
.... not just another piece of kid stuff / arcade shooter
no better than Frogger. One thing neither the movies, TV,
or books can do is design and present to the gamer
a really beautiful and artistic environment that you can
spend time with, and feel a part of. Far Cry and Syberia
both have done that. We've been moving towards it
for a while, and now it is here. I read today that MOHAA: Pacific Assault
has been delayed to bring it
in line with the newer games. Good move. I hope it
meets the new standard set by Far Cry and Syberia.
Doom 3 does not meet those standards. I don't care
what the hype or excuses made by Id are. I want games
that are more than just walking down halls making lots
of noise at comic book monsters. That makes us look
stupid compared to the European game writers. Ids
games are kid stuff. They always were. Times have
changed.

johns

 

[Guest]

IMO, the idea of making a good game is to not HAVE to suspend and more
disbelief than is nessisary.

So Quake where you could stick 100 rockets and 100 grenades in your back
pack, where all weapons looked like they were strapped on the end of your
dick, where you could swap weapons instantly with no animation and never
had to reload anything was a bad game?

Realism has sod all to do with a game being fun to play which is what makes
a good game.

The guys at id used to play their games and kept what was fun and scrapped
what wasn't. I think now Carmak is the only one left? From Quake 2 they
started worrying more about looking cool than being fun to play a trend
which continues in Doom 3. The game is all about lighting effects and the
flashlight is a lighting effect - surprised?

 

[Gonzo]

So Quake where you could stick 100 rockets and 100 grenades in your back
pack, where all weapons looked like they were strapped on the end of your
dick, where you could swap weapons instantly with no animation and never
had to reload anything was a bad game?

Realism has sod all to do with a game being fun to play which is what makes
a good game.

The guys at id used to play their games and kept what was fun and scrapped
what wasn't. I think now Carmak is the only one left? From Quake 2 they
started worrying more about looking cool than being fun to play a trend
which continues in Doom 3. The game is all about lighting effects and the
flashlight is a lighting effect - surprised?

That pretty much sums it up for me. I have a FLASHLIGHT SIMULATOR LOL!

Pass me another pack of Evereadys please.

 

[maggot]

C'mon, at lease SOMETHING in a game should make
sense.

The game is dark so the video card does'nt have to render so much and
drop to single digit frame rates. It's that simple.

 

[Craig]

It is what it is. Turn out the lights, turn up the volume on the 5.1's and
get the crap scared out of you. Or go play Theif.

 

[Servo]

It is what it is. Turn out the lights, turn up the volume on the 5.1's and
get the crap scared out of you. Or go play Theif.

Amen Craig! Screw the eurotrash weens, they're a bunch of wannabes. id
rulz and DOOM3 ROX!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Servo
"Kids love Robocop!"
tservo100 at
ameritech dot net
Slow, fiery death to all spammers!!!

 

[Kirby]

Amen Craig! Screw the eurotrash weens, they're a bunch of wannabes. id
rulz and DOOM3 ROX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was gonna flame the twats till i read this little thread. Damn right, I
have a 5.1 setup/Audgy 2 c/w (and a screaming p00teh) 19" Screen in my
lickle office. I would bet anyfucker that they wouldn't last 10 minutes in
there without having the shit scared out of them with most games, 5.1 in a
small environment is a must. I can remember (cue Our Tune music) the hype
from the first Doom, played it with me mates and we all had a good laugh.
Went home, bought a 486DX66 for £600 and then sat on my own and played Doom,
in DOS, with crap sound <shudders> and blimey, those footsteps, those big
****ers, those little ****ers!!!!!!!!

o_0
0_o

Kirby

 

[GTD]

So Quake where you could stick 100 rockets and 100 grenades in your back
pack, where all weapons looked like they were strapped on the end of your
dick, where you could swap weapons instantly with no animation and never
had to reload anything was a bad game?

No, the crux of what I was trying to say is in the portion you
snipped.

Realism has sod all to do with a game being fun to play which is what makes
a good game.

I agree, when the lack of realism either a. makes sense for the game,
or b. isn't an annoyance. I guess what I am not understanding is how
anyone could enjoy it.

The guys at id used to play their games and kept what was fun and scrapped
what wasn't. I think now Carmak is the only one left? From Quake 2 they
started worrying more about looking cool than being fun to play a trend
which continues in Doom 3. The game is all about lighting effects and the
flashlight is a lighting effect - surprised?

IMO, It's a shitty one. Ever use a flashlight in a dark room? Does
it's effect look ANYTHING like what is in the game? I understand, it's
a game, suspend belief, but it LOOKS LIKE SHIT.



You should start drinking prune juice and KY jelly cocktails right now,
that will make things a lot smoother.
-Felatio Love

 

[GTD]

The game is dark so the video card does'nt have to render so much and
drop to single digit frame rates. It's that simple.

Somehow. I don't think that's the answer. If that were true, it should
be running at a billion FPS, since there's so little that has to be
rendered since there is so little that is visible. I'm pretty sure
that anything in the screen, darkened or not, is still rendered.


You should start drinking prune juice and KY jelly cocktails right now,
that will make things a lot smoother.
-Felatio Love

 

[Dub273]

With the flashlight set to an easy to reach key on your keyboard it
is easy to toggle back and fourth, and in my opinion, fun.

I've set the right mouse button as my flashlight toggle, which makes
life a lot easier for me. Might be worth a try for anyone having
weapon/light fumble issues.

The enemies aren't that smart in Doom 3.

I don't think they're that smart in Far Cry, either -- they're just
have super sight and bionic hearing. Stealth as a concept is a joke
in FC; no matter how slowly you move, especially on the indoor levels,
the bad guys are gonna know you're there. On the outdoor levels, they
can spot you and pick you off from unreasonable distances, even if
you're under cover.

DOOM 3 does not have much in the way of revolutionary or interesting
gameplay, but it makes up for it in its presentation. The sound
design is top-notch (especially in 5.1), the scripted sequences cool,
the creatures are super-creepy. I don't care for all the PDA e-mail
or voice log stuff because it does break up the action and the flow of
the game, but that's my only real complaint.

==\dub/==

 

[Craig]

Idiots.

Somehow. I don't think that's the answer. If that were true, it should
be running at a billion FPS, since there's so little that has to be
rendered since there is so little that is visible. I'm pretty sure
that anything in the screen, darkened or not, is still rendered.


You should start drinking prune juice and KY jelly cocktails right now,
that will make things a lot smoother.
-Felatio Love

 

[redted]

The guys at id used to play their games and kept what was fun and
scrapped

That pretty much sums it up for me. I have a FLASHLIGHT SIMULATOR LOL!

Pass me another pack of Evereadys please.

Excellent !

 

[Wblane]

You're wrong about that last point. I've successfully engaged the mercs in Far
Cry and ran off into the jungle and while they looked in the general direction
in which I headed they didn't spot me easily (it was dark though). They do
sometimes shoot in the general direction in which they last saw you.

I don't think they're that smart in Far Cry, either -- they're just
have super sight and bionic hearing. Stealth as a concept is a joke
in FC; no matter how slowly you move, especially on the indoor levels,
the bad guys are gonna know you're there. On the outdoor levels, they
can spot you and pick you off from unreasonable distances, even if
you're under cover.

-Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email)