n00b water cooling questions

[afairjudgement]

Well I recently built my own machine, specs as follows

All of this inside of a Lian Li mid-size ATX case:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (stock cooled and OC'd from 2.2 to 2.6 GHz)
Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo (nForce 590)
XFX GeForce 8800 GTS (OC'd to 620 core, 1000 vram with stock cooling)
2 GB of G-Skill DDR2 800 MHz
SoundBaster Audigy2 ZS
Western Digital Raptor 10k RPM 30 gig SATA, and a Caviar 320 gig SATA
680W Apevia PSU
+ some other minor things, DVD drives, floppy, etc. stuff you dont need
to know.

So I'm wanting to get into trying to overclock this thing better than
I'm able to right now. I've always done air cooling, and this case has
plenty of fans (2 120mm [one on the front, one on the side] and 2
90mm's [top and back]. Keeps it decently cool, CPU temp never rises
above 45c under load, but when I try pushing the 2.6 boundary, I get
the inevitable freeze and reboot. Same thing goes for the video card.

Now I know there aren't many water cooled solutions for the 8800 GPU
yet, though Swiftech recently made an adapter plate for the MCW60 GPU
waterblock to use with it, which you can get with VRAM heatsinks. Now,
I know I want to go with swiftech for the waterblocks, since they also
make this MCW-Ramcool water block specifically for GeForce cards. Most
of the parts I get will be swiftech, but my question is, since i have
quite limited room in my case (mid-size ATX which is being hogged
mostly by the gigantic video card and the side case fan), what sort of
pump/reservior/radiator do you folks suggest for the setup I plan?
Considering the limited space I figure I may need to keep some of the
parts external...so even then let me know what you folks think. Thanks
in advance.

 

[meow2222]

Well I recently built my own machine, specs as follows

All of this inside of a Lian Li mid-size ATX case:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (stock cooled and OC'd from 2.2 to 2.6 GHz)
Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo (nForce 590)
XFX GeForce 8800 GTS (OC'd to 620 core, 1000 vram with stock cooling)
2 GB of G-Skill DDR2 800 MHz
SoundBaster Audigy2 ZS
Western Digital Raptor 10k RPM 30 gig SATA, and a Caviar 320 gig SATA
680W Apevia PSU
+ some other minor things, DVD drives, floppy, etc. stuff you dont need
to know.

So I'm wanting to get into trying to overclock this thing better than
I'm able to right now. I've always done air cooling, and this case has
plenty of fans (2 120mm [one on the front, one on the side] and 2
90mm's [top and back]. Keeps it decently cool, CPU temp never rises
above 45c under load, but when I try pushing the 2.6 boundary, I get
the inevitable freeze and reboot. Same thing goes for the video card.

Now I know there aren't many water cooled solutions for the 8800 GPU
yet, though Swiftech recently made an adapter plate for the MCW60 GPU
waterblock to use with it, which you can get with VRAM heatsinks. Now,
I know I want to go with swiftech for the waterblocks, since they also
make this MCW-Ramcool water block specifically for GeForce cards. Most
of the parts I get will be swiftech, but my question is, since i have
quite limited room in my case (mid-size ATX which is being hogged
mostly by the gigantic video card and the side case fan), what sort of
pump/reservior/radiator do you folks suggest for the setup I plan?
Considering the limited space I figure I may need to keep some of the
parts external...so even then let me know what you folks think. Thanks
in advance.

I think

a) if your cpu is 46C you dont need to cool it more.
b) 2 fans in series airflow-wise on the cpu would give more airflow
though on a fine finned hs. Put some distance of tube between the 2 to
avoid turbulence issues.
c) What ever do you need even more performance for? I was using a 75MHz
quite happily this am. I'm not against clocking, but sometimes theres
just no need or reason to. If a pc of your new build specs is anything
less than very fast its time to look at the software or implement raid.


NT

 

[Paul]

Well I recently built my own machine, specs as follows

All of this inside of a Lian Li mid-size ATX case:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (stock cooled and OC'd from 2.2 to 2.6 GHz)
Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo (nForce 590)
XFX GeForce 8800 GTS (OC'd to 620 core, 1000 vram with stock cooling)
2 GB of G-Skill DDR2 800 MHz
SoundBaster Audigy2 ZS
Western Digital Raptor 10k RPM 30 gig SATA, and a Caviar 320 gig SATA
680W Apevia PSU
+ some other minor things, DVD drives, floppy, etc. stuff you dont need
to know.

So I'm wanting to get into trying to overclock this thing better than
I'm able to right now. I've always done air cooling, and this case has
plenty of fans (2 120mm [one on the front, one on the side] and 2
90mm's [top and back]. Keeps it decently cool, CPU temp never rises
above 45c under load, but when I try pushing the 2.6 boundary, I get
the inevitable freeze and reboot. Same thing goes for the video card.

Now I know there aren't many water cooled solutions for the 8800 GPU
yet, though Swiftech recently made an adapter plate for the MCW60 GPU
waterblock to use with it, which you can get with VRAM heatsinks. Now,
I know I want to go with swiftech for the waterblocks, since they also
make this MCW-Ramcool water block specifically for GeForce cards. Most
of the parts I get will be swiftech, but my question is, since i have
quite limited room in my case (mid-size ATX which is being hogged
mostly by the gigantic video card and the side case fan), what sort of
pump/reservior/radiator do you folks suggest for the setup I plan?
Considering the limited space I figure I may need to keep some of the
parts external...so even then let me know what you folks think. Thanks
in advance.

Your processor is only 45C. A water cooler can only cool to room
temperature, if it had infinitely good characteristics. With a $300
water cooler, you might get to 37C CPU temperature, and an extra
75MHz of overclock. Is that worth it ? If your CPU was running
at 60C or 70C, a water cooler might make more sense. But your CPU
is already pretty damn cool.

A Peltier, insulating grease and neoprene gaskets around the CPU
socket, is another way to do it. Or phase change cooling, and the
same attention to preventing condensation around the CPU socket.
The larger delta_T of such methods, is what gives slightly more
overclock potential. But people with such systems, might get a
year out of their motherboard, before there is trouble. Exotic
methods are not very practical, either from a power bill
perspective, or on the impact to the computer components.
If you are competing in the Futuremark ORB, then making the
extra expenditure makes sense. Otherwise, getting "2.6GHz
for free", is the right way to get extra value from your
processor, without wasting money that could have been spent
getting a better processor in the first place (like a
Core2 Duo).

Does your 8800 card have a warranty ? Is the warranty void
after the water block is added ? Can you afford to buy another
8800 if you break this one ? There are actually cards for
sale, that have alternate cooling solutions on them from the
factory. Here is an example. Sparkle Calibre card has a
Peltier cooler, and active cooling, that results in a 62C
GPU while gaming. That is a clever way of achieving a
better temperature, without a clutter of hoses and water.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2873&p=8

Paul

 

[Ken Maltby]

Well I recently built my own machine, specs as follows

All of this inside of a Lian Li mid-size ATX case:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (stock cooled and OC'd from 2.2 to 2.6 GHz)
Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo (nForce 590)
XFX GeForce 8800 GTS (OC'd to 620 core, 1000 vram with stock cooling)
2 GB of G-Skill DDR2 800 MHz
SoundBaster Audigy2 ZS
Western Digital Raptor 10k RPM 30 gig SATA, and a Caviar 320 gig SATA
680W Apevia PSU
+ some other minor things, DVD drives, floppy, etc. stuff you dont need
to know.

So I'm wanting to get into trying to overclock this thing better than
I'm able to right now. I've always done air cooling, and this case has
plenty of fans (2 120mm [one on the front, one on the side] and 2
90mm's [top and back]. Keeps it decently cool, CPU temp never rises
above 45c under load, but when I try pushing the 2.6 boundary, I get
the inevitable freeze and reboot. Same thing goes for the video card.

Now I know there aren't many water cooled solutions for the 8800 GPU
yet, though Swiftech recently made an adapter plate for the MCW60 GPU
waterblock to use with it, which you can get with VRAM heatsinks. Now,
I know I want to go with swiftech for the waterblocks, since they also
make this MCW-Ramcool water block specifically for GeForce cards. Most
of the parts I get will be swiftech, but my question is, since i have
quite limited room in my case (mid-size ATX which is being hogged
mostly by the gigantic video card and the side case fan), what sort of
pump/reservior/radiator do you folks suggest for the setup I plan?
Considering the limited space I figure I may need to keep some of the
parts external...so even then let me know what you folks think. Thanks
in advance.

Your processor is only 45C. A water cooler can only cool to room
temperature, if it had infinitely good characteristics. With a $300
water cooler, you might get to 37C CPU temperature, and an extra
75MHz of overclock. Is that worth it ? If your CPU was running
at 60C or 70C, a water cooler might make more sense. But your CPU
is already pretty damn cool.

A Peltier, insulating grease and neoprene gaskets around the CPU
socket, is another way to do it. Or phase change cooling, and the
same attention to preventing condensation around the CPU socket.
The larger delta_T of such methods, is what gives slightly more
overclock potential. But people with such systems, might get a
year out of their motherboard, before there is trouble. Exotic
methods are not very practical, either from a power bill
perspective, or on the impact to the computer components.
If you are competing in the Futuremark ORB, then making the
extra expenditure makes sense. Otherwise, getting "2.6GHz
for free", is the right way to get extra value from your
processor, without wasting money that could have been spent
getting a better processor in the first place (like a
Core2 Duo).

Does your 8800 card have a warranty ? Is the warranty void
after the water block is added ? Can you afford to buy another
8800 if you break this one ? There are actually cards for
sale, that have alternate cooling solutions on them from the
factory. Here is an example. Sparkle Calibre card has a
Peltier cooler, and active cooling, that results in a 62C
GPU while gaming. That is a clever way of achieving a
better temperature, without a clutter of hoses and water.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2873&p=8

Paul

I am using a Danger Den water block on my Ati Radeon
X850 XT PE ( a fairly hot running card) and have used and
still like the Swiftech water blocks on both CPUs & GPUs.
My current setup keeps both processors within 3 to 6 degrees
Celsius of room temp., depending on the load.

I haven't bothered with overclocking in a number of years,
but I do enjoy a silent PC. My setup is a little atypical, I
have used 1/2" PVC plumbing to run my cooling water to
another room in the house, where the reservoir, pump and
fan & radiator are located.

I have had my main system water cooled in this fashion for
at least 8 years now, through a goodly number of MB and
vid card changes. I have had no water related problems, to
speak of.

I frequently have the system running 24hrs a day at 100%,
encoding video.

Luck;
Ken

 

[afairjudgement]

Simply put, I'm a gamer. Overclocking just seems necessary when running
very hi-res games such as Oblivion, Flight Simulator X, Need for Speed
Carbon. I have read around regarding my CPU and know that folks have
got this CPU running 2900, 3000 MHz using water cooling. I just want to
get as much performance as I can out of this one as to get the most out
of this machine as possible.

Well I recently built my own machine, specs as follows

All of this inside of a Lian Li mid-size ATX case:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (stock cooled and OC'd from 2.2 to 2.6 GHz)
Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe mobo (nForce 590)
XFX GeForce 8800 GTS (OC'd to 620 core, 1000 vram with stock cooling)
2 GB of G-Skill DDR2 800 MHz
SoundBaster Audigy2 ZS
Western Digital Raptor 10k RPM 30 gig SATA, and a Caviar 320 gig SATA
680W Apevia PSU
+ some other minor things, DVD drives, floppy, etc. stuff you dont need
to know.

So I'm wanting to get into trying to overclock this thing better than
I'm able to right now. I've always done air cooling, and this case has
plenty of fans (2 120mm [one on the front, one on the side] and 2
90mm's [top and back]. Keeps it decently cool, CPU temp never rises
above 45c under load, but when I try pushing the 2.6 boundary, I get
the inevitable freeze and reboot. Same thing goes for the video card.

Now I know there aren't many water cooled solutions for the 8800 GPU
yet, though Swiftech recently made an adapter plate for the MCW60 GPU
waterblock to use with it, which you can get with VRAM heatsinks. Now,
I know I want to go with swiftech for the waterblocks, since they also
make this MCW-Ramcool water block specifically for GeForce cards. Most
of the parts I get will be swiftech, but my question is, since i have
quite limited room in my case (mid-size ATX which is being hogged
mostly by the gigantic video card and the side case fan), what sort of
pump/reservior/radiator do you folks suggest for the setup I plan?
Considering the limited space I figure I may need to keep some of the
parts external...so even then let me know what you folks think. Thanks
in advance.I think

a) if your cpu is 46C you dont need to cool it more.
b) 2 fans in series airflow-wise on the cpu would give more airflow
though on a fine finned hs. Put some distance of tube between the 2 to
avoid turbulence issues.
c) What ever do you need even more performance for? I was using a 75MHz
quite happily this am. I'm not against clocking, but sometimes theres
just no need or reason to. If a pc of your new build specs is anything
less than very fast its time to look at the software or implement raid.

NT

 

[noemail]

Just fill the case with dry ice every day.
If that seems like too much trouble, place the entire computer inside
a chest freezer with a hole on the side for the wires. Be sure to
caulk around the hole. Keep the freezer on maximum, cooling. If you
can modify the freezer compressor, you might be able to keep the
freezer in the below zero F temp range.

 

[Ken Maltby]

Just fill the case with dry ice every day.
If that seems like too much trouble, place the entire computer inside
a chest freezer with a hole on the side for the wires. Be sure to
caulk around the hole. Keep the freezer on maximum, cooling. If you
can modify the freezer compressor, you might be able to keep the
freezer in the below zero F temp range.

I guess you are trying to be funny, but putting a computer
in a freezer doesn't work. The dry ice could work but, in
addition to having to replace the dry ice, you would have
some very difficult condensation issues.

(Ironically, you could create very low temps evaporating
dry ice with denatured alcohol, but that is for a few min.,
only.)

You need an air conditioner to have a commonly available
device designed to continuously remove enough heat.
Perhaps the most efficient way to use it would be to supply
cold air to a "Water" cooling systems radiator. This could
provide highly chilled water to all the components, and the
condensation could be addressed with current techniques.

Luck;
Ken

 

[meow2222]

I guess you are trying to be funny, but putting a computer
in a freezer doesn't work.

If you filled the freezer 2/3 full of containers of ice, stacked with
gaps between them, that would work. Long as youre not using the machine
all the time.


NT