will water cooling help lower ambient room temps? good systems for anewbie?

[markm75]

I have a problem with heat in my small 9x12' office space.. 3 lcds
(24") kick off heat.. my thermal take armor series case has the p5e3
board with q9650 3.0ghz cpu, 1600mhz ocz ram.. icy dock sas/sata bays
x 4 (12 removable drive bays worth), then my dual 4870 cards, and the
psu is an 850watt unit..

Typically its 79 to 85 degrees in this room, at the elevation of my
shelf with my system..

I have an arctic cooler on this, its too hot (cpu), i was going to
replace that with a 100CFM 120mm air cooled fan / sink, but i think a
water cooler may be better.. its 114F behind the exhaust on the video
cards..

Would adding a water cooler to this system help the ambient temps any?
I actually dont think it will, it will just draw the heat out?

What sort of cooling system can i get without breaking the bank.. ie:

I'm thinking i'd want some sort of software notification of low
levels, external access, cooling of cpu and north bridge, but maybe
this is too costly and i can cut the notification and external part,
though some, like with the swiftech, said they couldnt fit an internal
system in their case.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Paul]

I have a problem with heat in my small 9x12' office space.. 3 lcds
(24") kick off heat.. my thermal take armor series case has the p5e3
board with q9650 3.0ghz cpu, 1600mhz ocz ram.. icy dock sas/sata bays
x 4 (12 removable drive bays worth), then my dual 4870 cards, and the
psu is an 850watt unit..

Typically its 79 to 85 degrees in this room, at the elevation of my
shelf with my system..

I have an arctic cooler on this, its too hot (cpu), i was going to
replace that with a 100CFM 120mm air cooled fan / sink, but i think a
water cooler may be better.. its 114F behind the exhaust on the video
cards..

Would adding a water cooler to this system help the ambient temps any?
I actually dont think it will, it will just draw the heat out?

What sort of cooling system can i get without breaking the bank.. ie:

I'm thinking i'd want some sort of software notification of low
levels, external access, cooling of cpu and north bridge, but maybe
this is too costly and i can cut the notification and external part,
though some, like with the swiftech, said they couldnt fit an internal
system in their case.

Thanks in advance for any help.

It depends on exactly where you plan on dumping the heat. The heat
has to go somewhere, so there has to be some infinite sink somewhere,
which is cooler than your local ambient. If the radiator is sitting
in your lap, then you're still going to have a local heat problem.

Some people use water cooling, and place the radiator and fan(s) at
some remote location. That keeps the noise of the fans at some
distance from the work area. But the heat still has to go somewhere.
For the heat to leave the rad, the surrounding air must be cooler
than the rad.

Water blocks are available for just about anything, GPU, Northbridge,
Southbridge, CPU, and so on. Just be careful, when using them, to
still have a little air movement through the case, because not
every heat emitter ends up with a water block. For example, you might
leave the heatsink attached to the Vcore MOSFETs, and need a little bit
of case air to keep it cool. Even your disk drives like a little
air movement through the case, to avoid heat buildup.

This forum has a few sticky threads that might be worth reading.
One describes how to start up a water cooled system, check for
leaks, purge air from it, and so on. Water systems build up biological
waste in the water, unless something prevents it, and if there is copper
elements in the loop, the little bit of copper solvated, helps
kill stuff in the water.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Example of a radiator, with room for three 120mm fans. You can place
these, somewhere other than your office area.

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCR320-QP.asp

It is really a lot of work to set that stuff up, using the right
kind of fittings and so on.

For the three LCDs, turn two of them off

Paul

 

[John Weiss]

I have a problem with heat in my small 9x12' office space.. 3 lcds
(24") kick off heat.. my thermal take armor series case has the p5e3
board with q9650 3.0ghz cpu, 1600mhz ocz ram.. icy dock sas/sata bays
x 4 (12 removable drive bays worth), then my dual 4870 cards, and the
psu is an 850watt unit..

Typically its 79 to 85 degrees in this room, at the elevation of my
shelf with my system..

I have an arctic cooler on this, its too hot (cpu), i was going to
replace that with a 100CFM 120mm air cooled fan / sink, but i think a
water cooler may be better.. its 114F behind the exhaust on the video
cards..

Would adding a water cooler to this system help the ambient temps any?
I actually dont think it will, it will just draw the heat out?

Heat is heat. You can move it around by various means, but the amount of energy
in it is the same.

Hopefully, your GPU fans exhaust outside the case. If not, more/bigger case
fans are in order, or the CPU coolers just have more hot air to work with.

If you move more heat out of the case, it will go into the room. If the water
system is more efficient at moving it out of the case (i.e., the radiator is
outside the case and has a good fan directing the hot air away from the case
intake fans), it may stabilize at a slightly lower case temp and a slightly
higher room temp.

OTOH, if the heating/cooling system is relatively efficient at keeping the temp
constant in that room, the case will benefit from the greater amount of heat
transferred to the room, the furnace will have to work less, and the air
conditioner will have to work more.

So, what are your current CPU core and GPU temps?

 

[markm75]

Heat is heat.  You can move it around by various means, but the amount of energy
in it is the same.

Hopefully, your GPU fans exhaust outside the case.  If not, more/biggercase
fans are in order, or the CPU coolers just have more hot air to work with..

If you move more heat out of the case, it will go into the room.  If the water
system is more efficient at moving it out of the case (i.e., the radiatoris
outside the case and has a good fan directing the hot air away from the case
intake fans), it may stabilize at a slightly lower case temp and a slightly
higher room temp.

OTOH, if the heating/cooling system is relatively efficient at keeping the temp
constant in that room, the case will benefit from the greater amount of heat
transferred to the room, the furnace will have to work less, and the air
conditioner will have to work more.

So, what are your current CPU core and GPU temps?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Gpu temps on the 4870's are about 70 and 60.. but when i set them to
60% fan, about 60 and 55..

CPU temps with case side off on thermaltake armor series seem to be
about 55C idle.. but i'm putting in a Xigmatek HDT-S1283 cooler in
place of the arctic cooler, hoping it will help, with retention
brackets..

 

[VanguardLH]

I have an arctic cooler on this, its too hot (cpu),

How hot is too hot?

What sort of cooling system can i get without breaking the bank.. ie:

We don't know the reserves of your bank. Expensive to one person is
cheap to another.

I'm thinking i'd want some sort of software notification of low
levels, external access, cooling of cpu and north bridge, but maybe
this is too costly and i can cut the notification and external part,
though some, like with the swiftech, said they couldnt fit an internal
system in their case.

Depends on the size of the "room". In the room where you use your
computer, what effect would 4 100W light bulbs have on the temperature
in that room? I doubt you are actually consuming 850W. Get an ammeter
to check current draw by your host to figure out the real power
consumption (and during continual use after all devices are powered, not
during startup).

If a device is generating N therms, it will still produce the same N
therms regardless of what cooling you use to remove the heat (the better
cooling is to help remove the heat faster from the device). So it will
still get the same heat dumped into your environment. If you want it
cooler in your office, do the same thing a faster fan on the CPU would
do: cycle the air faster through your office. That means leaving the
fan to manual rather than temperature regulated (providing you get a
separate fan and control), or leave your door open and put a fan that
blows out but aimed at the top of the door opening or moves the hotter
ceiling air towards the door.

Stop thinking temperature. Start thinking heat. If you dump the heat
faster into your office, the air circulating back into the computer is
hotter. Cooling works due to differentials in heat. What good will it
do to be able to cool a device faster if it merely ends up pre-heating
the air used to cool it thereafter? Fix your heat issue in your office
first. If you need to use an enclosed space in which you have no
control over the airflow through it then you'd better check out just
where you can router the tubes and position the radiator so it is
outside your office.

46C (114F) is not that high for case temperature. I use Speedfan to
reduce fan speed (and noise) until case temp goes above 40C and warn if
it gets over 50C. I use it to reduce CPU fan speed (and noise) until my
old Athlon XP gets up to 55C and warn at 65C (with the BIOS configured
to shutdown at 75C). Go to Intel to get the *operating* specs for your
CPU. The device is still supposed to work within that operating range
of temperatures (provided you haven't modified anything, like
overclocking). If the operating range for a CPU is up to 80C and
someone says they get flaky operation at 65C and why they are
desparately trying to lower temperatures then they've told you their CPU
is defective and they didn't bother to get it warranty replaced. For
the x7 9650, I think the max operating temperature is 70C. That is its
*operating* range for continuous use.

You're probably the biggest contributor to heat in your office. The
typical human body produces 100W at basal metabolic rate up to 900W
during a 30-second cycle sprint. Do you tell visitors that they must
stand outside your office when visiting you?

 

[markm75]

How hot is too hot?


We don't know the reserves of your bank.  Expensive to one person is
cheap to another.


Depends on the size of the "room".  In the room where you use your
computer, what effect would 4 100W light bulbs have on the temperature
in that room?  I doubt you are actually consuming 850W.  Get an ammeter
to check current draw by your host to figure out the real power
consumption (and during continual use after all devices are powered, not
during startup).

If a device is generating N therms, it will still produce the same N
therms regardless of what cooling you use to remove the heat (the better
cooling is to help remove the heat faster from the device).  So it will
still get the same heat dumped into your environment.  If you want it
cooler in your office, do the same thing a faster fan on the CPU would
do: cycle the air faster through your office.  That means leaving the
fan to manual rather than temperature regulated (providing you get a
separate fan and control), or leave your door open and put a fan that
blows out but aimed at the top of the door opening or moves the hotter
ceiling air towards the door.

Stop thinking temperature.  Start thinking heat.  If you dump the heat
faster into your office, the air circulating back into the computer is
hotter.  Cooling works due to differentials in heat.  What good will it
do to be able to cool a device faster if it merely ends up pre-heating
the air used to cool it thereafter?  Fix your heat issue in your office
first.  If you need to use an enclosed space in which you have no
control over the airflow through it then you'd better check out just
where you can router the tubes and position the radiator so it is
outside your office.

46C (114F) is not that high for case temperature.  I use Speedfan to
reduce fan speed (and noise) until case temp goes above 40C and warn if
it gets over 50C.  I use it to reduce CPU fan speed (and noise) until my
old Athlon XP gets up to 55C and warn at 65C (with the BIOS configured
to shutdown at 75C).  Go to Intel to get the *operating* specs for your
CPU.  The device is still supposed to work within that operating range
of temperatures (provided you haven't modified anything, like
overclocking).  If the operating range for a CPU is up to 80C and
someone says they get flaky operation at 65C and why they are
desparately trying to lower temperatures then they've told you their CPU
is defective and they didn't bother to get it warranty replaced.  For
the x7 9650, I think the max operating temperature is 70C.  That is its
*operating* range for continuous use.

You're probably the biggest contributor to heat in your office.  The
typical human body produces 100W at basal metabolic rate up to 900W
during a 30-second cycle sprint.  Do you tell visitors that they must
stand outside your office when visiting you?

I did some more temperature checking, the ambient right next to my pc
is 81F, down where i sit its more like 77.. when i said 114F, this is
just behind each 4870's exhaust, on the outside of the pc case at the
bottom.. thats probably the biggest contributer to the "heat"..

I'm still thinking the twin fan setup may help.. short of ducting the
heat to the fan.. and short of going water cooling with the radiator/
resev. somewhere else.. not even sure where else i could route it.

I always keep the office door open, but it can only open half way due
to the odd configuration of furnature.

 

[John Weiss]

Gpu temps on the 4870's are about 70 and 60.. but when i set them to 60% fan,
about 60 and 55..

No problem there...

CPU temps with case side off on thermaltake armor series seem to be about 55C
idle.. but i'm putting in a Xigmatek HDT-S1283 cooler in place of the arctic
cooler, hoping it will help, with retention brackets..

That's a bit high... My E6850 runs about 42-45C at full tilt (running
Folding@Home), and my Q9450 runs about 43-49C. Both have stock coolers.

You may also have to increase the airflow through the case by putting in
more/bigger/higher CFM case fans. Concentrate on the exhaust fan first.

 

[John Weiss]

Go to Intel to get the *operating* specs for your
CPU. The device is still supposed to work within that operating range
of temperatures (provided you haven't modified anything, like
overclocking). If the operating range for a CPU is up to 80C and
someone says they get flaky operation at 65C and why they are
desparately trying to lower temperatures then they've told you their CPU
is defective and they didn't bother to get it warranty replaced. For
the x7 9650, I think the max operating temperature is 70C. That is its
*operating* range for continuous use.

I did some more temperature checking, the ambient right next to my pc is 81F,
down where i sit its more like 77.. when i said 114F, this is just behind each
4870's exhaust, on the outside of the pc case at the bottom.. thats probably
the biggest contributer to the "heat"..

I'm still thinking the twin fan setup may help.. short of ducting the heat to
the fan.. and short of going water cooling with the radiator/resev. somewhere
else.. not even sure where else i could route it.

Intel (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB8W) sez the
thermal spec for the Q9650 is 71.4C. If you're running 55C at idle, you could
well be approaching 70C at full load (if you ever use it at full load). If the
CPU is used lightly/intermittently, though, you may not hit 60C... While the
CPU has a thermal protection feature, it's not a good practice to rely on it,
especially if you know it is running relatively hot.

 

[Ed Medlin]

Intel (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB8W) sez the
thermal spec for the Q9650 is 71.4C. If you're running 55C at idle, you
could well be approaching 70C at full load (if you ever use it at full
load). If the CPU is used lightly/intermittently, though, you may not hit
60C... While the CPU has a thermal protection feature, it's not a good
practice to rely on it, especially if you know it is running relatively
hot.

With his high ambient temps, it would be normal to see higher than normal
idle temps. In the cases I have seen like his, many times the temperature
spread is very narrow........like idle in the mid-50sC and maxing out in the
mid-60s. I would not worry much about the idle temps because of that and
look at the load temperatures. If the thermal spec is 72C, it would probably
start throttling back at about 75C (that is about where most Intels start).
The video card exhaust is normal and a good thing because that hot air is
exhausting out of the case and should not contribute much to the internal
temps. One thing I would measure is the temperature inside the closed case
as close to the center as possible. This will give a good idea of what his
ambient case temp is and a better idea of what kind of extra cooling may or
may not be needed.


Ed