Missing Newsgroups


S

scott

I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
newsgroups dialog.

For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
newsgroups with outlook express 6?
 
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B

BillW50

scott wrote on Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:10:33 -0500:
I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
newsgroups dialog.

For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
newsgroups with outlook express 6?

No! Microsoft are getting rid of all of them by October I believe it is.
But you can use other non-Microsoft news servers and get all of them.
 
P

PA Bear [MS MVP]

The OE newsgroups & many others were dropped from the MS newsservers in
early July 2010; cf.
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/e6e22fe7bc8b1f04

This WinXP General newsgroup will be dropped from the MS newsservers on 12
Sept-10.

Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Communities:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx

You will find continuing support for WinXP in these forums:
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windowsxp
 
V

VanguardLH

scott said:
I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
newsgroups dialog.

For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
newsgroups with outlook express 6?

Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
that server.

NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
(Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.

Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.

Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
"Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.

Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
refuse to use them.
 
W

W****n S.

VanguardLH said:
scott said:
I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
newsgroups dialog.

For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
msnews.microsoft.com
newsgroups with outlook express 6?

Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
that server.

NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
(Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.

Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.

Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
"Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.

Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
refuse to use them.

Well put.

Web based forums are just a plain pain in the arse.

Thanks Micro$oft.
 
G

Guest

Paul said:
As to whether people will use the Microsoft private forum, or
go elsewhere, really depends on whether they're getting the answers
they're looking for. The USENET option is harder to find, and takes
work on the part of the user. It doesn't have an "advertising budget"
as such. And USENET has the advantage, for at least the moment,
that Google archives all the posted articles, so they won't get lost.

Usenet will be around long after Microsoft is a distant memory.
 
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M

milt

scott wrote on Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:10:33 -0500:

No! Microsoft are getting rid of all of them by October I believe it is.
But you can use other non-Microsoft news servers and get all of them.

Not that there would be any point... I know this and the Vista group are
gone as of the 12th. The server is gone as of the 1st of Oct. This has
only been discussed a billion times, perhaps you would be better served
by the new MS forums where no one bothers to look up anything and wants
everything spoon fed to them even if its been answered 20 times in the
past day.
 
M

mm

Not that there would be any point... I know this and the Vista group are
gone as of the 12th. The server is gone as of the 1st of Oct.

The *Microsoft* server will be gone, but the other news servers will
still be carrying the same groups.

They won't be "msnews.microsoft.com" groups, but they will be the
*same* groups, the very same groups, with many or most of the same
people.

I've never read any of these groups from the micorsoft news server, so
I don't even have to change the server name in my newsreader.

In adddition there are other good newsgroups that cover the same
subjects, in the alt.comp.* series of groups, for example, and
alt.sys.* and comp.*

I'm certainly not going to move to any web lists. They are
inconvenient to say the least.
This has
only been discussed a billion times, perhaps you would be better served
by the new MS forums where no one bothers to look up anything and wants
everything spoon fed to them even if its been answered 20 times in the
past day.

Two more reasons not to go there.
 
M

mm

Bill,
if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other non ms servers get the articles?

Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
when people using the other servers post them, just like now.

No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
we get there?
 
M

mm

Usenet will be around long after Microsoft is a distant memory.

I think so,

And it's not just free news servers, but there are paid news servers
for 3 to ?10? dollars a month, that have in many cases longer
retention times, or have binaries (which I have no use for.)
 
M

mm

The OE newsgroups & many others were dropped from the MS newsservers in
early July 2010; cf.
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/e6e22fe7bc8b1f04

This WinXP General newsgroup will be dropped from the MS newsservers on 12
Sept-10.

Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Communities:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx

You will find continuing support for WinXP in these forums:
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windowsxp


And you will find continuing support right here
on microsoft.public.windowsxp.general .


But you'll have to use a different newsserver from the MS server.
 
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M

mm

VanguardLH said:
scott said:
I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
newsgroups dialog.

For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
msnews.microsoft.com
newsgroups with outlook express 6?

Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
that server.

NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
(Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.

Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.

Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
"Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.

Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
refuse to use them.

Well put.

Yes it was.
Web based forums are just a plain pain in the arse.

Yes they are.

BTW, mozilla may not broadcast its newsgroups, or whatever it's called
to let other servers carry them. But mozzilla has 45 mozilla
newsgroups , related to firefox, Netscape, Thunderbird and maybe other
stuff, on its own news server, news.mozilla.org iirc. Many/most
computer programs to read news allow one to use more than one news
server at the same time, so you do have to put in another entry for
servers, but there's no charge, and the ARE newsgroups, with all the
advantages of newsgroups. Although there are 45 ngs, 3 of them will
get most of the business.)
Thanks Micro$oft.

UGH.
 
K

Klaatu Barada Nikto

only been discussed a billion times, perhaps you would be better served by
the new MS forums where no one bothers to look up anything and wants
everything spoon fed to them even if its been answered 20 times in the
past day.

That's the way it's always been, even in the NNTP MS newsgroups.
 
C

ctowers

mm said:
Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
when people using the other servers post them, just like now.

No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
we get there?


I am beginning to think the /innocent/ and /inexperienced/ questioners are
really Microsoft shills using incessant repetitive questions to instill
gloom and doom into newsgroup advocates.
 
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T

Tester

Tim said:
It's really sad.....

Because of M$'s decision to close the Groups, I added the following to
my OE :

(nntp.aioe.org)
alt.msdos.batch
alt.windows-xp

This is a very stupid thing to do because nutters like you don't get the
cryptic message from Redmond (WA 98052-6399) that they don't want
idiots like you or Pig-Bear posting any solutions to Microsoft's own
applications. They have their own staff to do this. No wonder they
hang around on Forums to give real life working solutions to by pass
nutters like you.

Peckham boy - learn a thing or two and don't remain a stupid fat boy.
 
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T

Tim Meddick

You show your ignorance, presuming to describe with such authority,
somebody whom you do not know in the least.

When I give advice in this forum, for whatever time is now left to it, I do
so knowing my limitations, and make no secret of the fact that I am no
expert, just an enthusiast.

I believe I have been of some help here, even in threads where Microsoft
MVPs have been involved, but even they don't "hit the right spot" on
occasion - they are not "gods" (as I'm sure they will admit) !!

Plus, I have been giving advice (only on matters that are within my
experience, I hasten to add), here for around the past two years, and this
is the FIRST time I've seen a poster that goes by the name of "Tester" !!

==

God bless you (you need it), Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-(
 

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