linux is crap.. but vista is....

[steve sonsino]

Linux is crap.. but vista is.... getting really close to what windows users
blamed Linux for:

- Hardware incompatibility

- Software incompatibility

- Non user friendliness.

Now you have Linux problems AND windows lack of security!

Plus you have to pay for all this crap!

That's why I propose a rename of this horrid OS Microsoft made

lets call it Vistux! (short for vista sux)

 

[jonathan perreault]

linux is only "crap", because the manufacturor of the devices that we use
are making windows drivers not linux drivers, if it wasn't for that 75% of
the people on this newsgroup would change to linux, i know i would

--
Jonathan Perreault

Personnal Advice To You:
#1: Do Not Undermine Windows's Work, Or It'll Undermine You As A User.
#2: Torture Windows (Any) Now Before It Tortures You

Best Comments From Users:
No Matter The Problem Even With Linux, It's Microsoft's And Windows's Faults

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

 

[Singer]

linux is only "crap", because the manufacturor of the devices that we
use are making windows drivers not linux drivers, if it wasn't for
that 75% of the people on this newsgroup would change to linux, i know
i would

Who cares?
I, like 99 percent of the people out there look at the end result and
could care less where it comes from.
If a driver exists for Windows and not for Linux, then Linux sucks.
That's the way of the world.
Do you care who made the hoses for your washing machine?
I don't as long as they work.

The problem with Linux is that the community is always whining and
placing blame every place it can but at the same time ignoring the fact
that Linux is free and Windows is not.
So where is Linux?
It's free for goodness sakes.
Maybe the real truth is that people have tried Linux and decided that it
sucks.
Ever consider that option?
It's the most logical one AFAIK.

 

[Stephan Rose]

linux is only "crap", because the manufacturor of the devices that we use
are making windows drivers not linux drivers, if it wasn't for that 75% of
the people on this newsgroup would change to linux, i know i would

Personally I don't consider driver support any significant problem anymore.

Ubuntu 6.10 supported about 80% of my hardware out of the box, the rest
via manual driver installs.

Ubuntu 7.04 supported about 95% of my hardware out of the box, the rest via
manual driver installs.

Ubuntu 7.10, currently still in devleopment, supports 100% of my hardware
out of the box.

Both 7.04 and 7.10 even support the broadcom wireless (WPA and
WPA2 included, I run a WPA2 secured network at home), the only thing I need
to do is supply the broadcom firmware when I initially configure the
OS. That is due to legal reasons as broadcom does not grant redistribution
rights to their firmware needed by their drivers, otherwise they'd just
include the necessary firmware files. In 7.04 I still need to do this
manually while 7.10 makes this easier by prompting me for either the
location of the firmware or for a driver CD (windows driver CD is fine).

All our office printers are supported.

All my keyboards are supported, ranging from US, to German to Japanese
keyboards from varying manufacturers.

All my monitors are supported.

All my video hardware is supported (various level nVidia cards all
the way up to my 8800 GTX in my home system and ATI in my laptop).

All my DVD burners are supported which can all burn any format and media in
this known universe.

All my sound hardware is supported, both Creative Labs and on-board
motherboard sound (not that I'd ever care to use on-board sound but I did
test it once).

My father's USB Midi audio hardware is supported, ranging from
synthesizers to keyboards etc.

So far, every webcam I've thrown at the system has been supported.

My headset/microphone is supported.

My JTAG Debuggers are supported.

The list goes on and on and all of it is plug and play requiring no driver
installs, command line calls or configuration file editing.

About the only hardware I can think of these days that is not supported
are Cannon Printers. My solution to that? I don't buy Cannon. I just buy
HP, Brother or Epson instead.

The same goes for wireless, even though the developers have finally
managed to get reasonable Broadcom support, Broadcom themselves still
don't support Linux. So when I have the choice, I just use Intel wireless
cards instead. They do their job just as well and work plug & play with
absolutely zero hassle.

For just about all hardware that one needs, it either is supported these
days or there are viable alternative manufacturers that are supported.

See the thing about Linux is that it does move extremely fast. Something
that was not supported last year might be supported today. Just look at
the Ubuntu releases compared to Microsft's releases.

MS Released Vista end of January.
Ubuntu 7.04 released April.
Ubuntu 7.10 will be released October.
MS Service Pack 1 for Vista *might* be released beginning 2008.
Ubuntu 8.04 will be released April 2008.

So depending on when MS releases Vista's service Pack, Ubuntu will have 2
or 3 complete new OS releases in that time. Each release being about as
significant as Vista is compared to XP.

Microsoft moves at the pace of a snail in comparison.

Now I can understand the frustration of a Windows user that wants to try
out Linux and happens to have hardware or software that currently is only
supported under Windows. List of such hardware is short, but it does still
exist. Windows software is obviously only intended to run under Windows.

So there are going to be compatibility problems which is what most people
complain about.

But honestly, how is this so much different from someone moving to Vista
from XP?

Vista doesn't support all hardware either. It may support some
manufacturers better than Linux does such as Broadcom and Cannon, but it
does much poorer on older hardware which won't ever see Vista drivers.

Nor does Vista support all Software, and nor will it ever support Software
that currently won't work and that won't be updated by their manufacturers
to run under Vista.

Bottom line, I find hardware to be the least of all problems and no
different than moving from XP to Vista in terms of support. In either
cases, one needs to research and pick hardware and software that is going
to be compatible and be supported.

To me, a much larger issue than hardware is software. While for most
mundane everday tasks there are plenty of viable Linux alternatives, it
still is hurting in some areas where there is little or no software
available or where what is available is lacking some important features.

When it comes to software support, I hope that more developers will choose
to write their software cross platform in the future and that projects
such as WINE improve sufficiently enough to allow the use of most Windows
software in linux.

This big software rift between Windows and Linux I think is the #1 thing
that needs to close.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Richard Urban]

Stephan,

I have tried Ubuntu. I have it now in a virtual machine (ver 7.04). But
until installing a new program is as easy as inserting the CD and have it
autorun, or by clicking on a setup executable, people are going to stay away
from it. I still can't get the virtual machine additions loaded. I stopped
trying. There must be magic voodoo that has to be used.

So, to me Ubuntu is a slight diversion and will never be anything else.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

[Stephan Rose]

Stephan,

I have tried Ubuntu. I have it now in a virtual machine (ver 7.04). But
until installing a new program is as easy as inserting the CD and have it
autorun, or by clicking on a setup executable, people are going to stay away
from it. I still can't get the virtual machine additions loaded. I stopped
trying. There must be magic voodoo that has to be used.

Well I can't comment on the virtual machine additions. I don't use VMs and
those additions are specific to VMWare.

Installing a program however is as easy as clicking the checkbox next to
the program in Synaptic.

System->Administration->Synaptic Package Manager

Find program you'd like to install.

Select click.

Click install button.

I don't find that any more difficult than jumping through hoops of an
install Wizard. Come to think of it...I've seen some horrible installers
under windows, seen some good ones too though.

But seriously, while it may not be the method you are used to, what's
particularly difficult about it?

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Richard Urban]

Will this also work for 3rd party software, or only what comes with the
distribution? What if I want to download and install a program that isn't
included with the distro?

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

[Stephan Rose]

Will this also work for 3rd party software, or only what comes with the
distribution? What if I want to download and install a program that isn't
included with the distro?

Well as it stands right now, there isn't any significant amount of 3rd
party software not included with the distribution. It's pretty much safe
enough to say that just about all existing linux software that is not
commercial is available via the package manager.

The install process of 3rd party commercial software, just like under
windows, is up to the developer. Ubuntu and other Debian based
distributions *do* provide a mechanism similar to Microsoft's MSI
installer for installing software. So if a developer chooses to use this,
then install process is as simple as double clicking the file and clicking
install, similarly to how MSI works in the windows world. All dependencies
on dynamic libraries will be checked and if necessary downloaded and
installed as well.

If a developer does not use it, well then you are at the whim of whatever
install process the developer provides. No different in Windows though. If
it wasn't for companies like Install Shield which became the predominant
Installer under Windows then Windows wouldn't have much of a standardized
install method either. I can't think of many programs these days that
don't use Install shield for the install process.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[James Matthews]

I second that!

--

http://www.goldwatches.com/
http://www.jewelerslounge.com/

linux is only "crap", because the manufacturor of the devices that we use
are making windows drivers not linux drivers, if it wasn't for that 75% of
the people on this newsgroup would change to linux, i know i would

--
Jonathan Perreault

Personnal Advice To You:
#1: Do Not Undermine Windows's Work, Or It'll Undermine You As A User.
#2: Torture Windows (Any) Now Before It Tortures You

Best Comments From Users:
No Matter The Problem Even With Linux, It's Microsoft's And Windows's
Faults

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

 

[jonathan perreault]

thanks and for your info i didn't pay him to say that he he he

--
Jonathan Perreault

Personnal Advice To You:
#1: Do Not Undermine Windows's Work, Or It'll Undermine You As A User.
#2: Torture Windows (Any) Now Before It Tortures You

Best Comments From Users:
No Matter The Problem Even With Linux, It's Microsoft's And Windows's Faults

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

I second that!

 

[NoStop]

Stephan,

I have tried Ubuntu. I have it now in a virtual machine (ver 7.04). But
until installing a new program is as easy as inserting the CD and have it
autorun, or by clicking on a setup executable, people are going to stay
away from it. I still can't get the virtual machine additions loaded. I
stopped trying. There must be magic voodoo that has to be used.

So, to me Ubuntu is a slight diversion and will never be anything else.

Of course it will be as long as you allow yourself to be an ignorant
Wintard. Have you never heard about a package manager? Are you not aware
that over 25000 software packages are easily installed by simply running
Synaptic, selecting a package or packages you want to install and clicking
a button? Shit, it's so much easier installing software on Ubuntu than
having to do it the way Windoze does. Obviously, this simplicity is beyond
your computer skills. Do stick with Windoze. Or if you want to try learning
a bit before bashing it, read and learn ...


https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories

Cheers.

--
Remove Vista Activation Completely ...
http://tinyurl.com/2w8qqo

Do you use Linux? Everytime you "google", you're using Linux.

Coming Soon! Ubuntu 7.10 ... New Features:
http://lunapark6.com/ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon-710-new-features.html

 

[NoStop]

Will this also work for 3rd party software, or only what comes with the
distribution? What if I want to download and install a program that isn't
included with the distro?

You can either ...

1) Add the repository that contains the package you want to your package
manager and it'll then be included for installation selection, or

2) Download a DEB file which is a Debian package and will install in Ubuntu,
since Ubuntu is Debian based, or

3) If the software you want is ONLY included in raw source code, then you'll
need to download the source code and compile it on your Ubuntu computer.
README files usually give instructions., or

4) If only a Redhat RPM version of the software is available, a software
program called Alien will convert that RPM to a DEB and then simply double
clicking on the DEB will install it.

The vast majority of your software requirements (25,000+ packages) will be
fulfilled by either 1 or 2.

Cheers.

--
Remove Vista Activation Completely ...
http://tinyurl.com/2w8qqo

Do you use Linux? Everytime you "google", you're using Linux.

Coming Soon! Ubuntu 7.10 ... New Features:
http://lunapark6.com/ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon-710-new-features.html

 

[The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly]

Of course it will be as long as you allow yourself to be an ignorant
Wintard. Have you never heard about a package manager? Are you not aware
that over 25000 software packages are easily installed by simply running
Synaptic, selecting a package or packages you want to install and clicking
a button? Shit, it's so much easier installing software on Ubuntu than
having to do it the way Windoze does. Obviously, this simplicity is beyond
your computer skills. Do stick with Windoze. Or if you want to try learning
a bit before bashing it, read and learn ...


https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories

Cheers.

I have to agree with you nostop. Picture this:

- clueless average user wants to download and install a program from the
internet to their windows machine. They get to the internet site, click
on the download link, can't find where the program downloaded to so
downloads it 10 times to 10 different places on their machine. Finally
knows where it is to double click on it, gets message 'is not a valid
windows file' because of a bad download or 'windows does not know how to
open this file' because it's a zip/rar/etc. file, what the hell do they
do now?!? and so on...

- clueless average on user on linux machine runs synaptic software from
'start' menu (not like they would know the difference between windows
and linux, lol) and runs down the checklist picking the software they
want and amazed and delighted at how much software there is listed there
that 'OMG, how could there be more software than this?' not realizing
that the package manager will take care of the download, install,
dependencies, verify the download, etc. so the user doesn't even have to
think about these other problems they will run into in windows.

Mabey for people like Dick, it is too simple, and they just don't get it
because they are searching for something more difficult because their
whole life they have been brainwashed by hearing everyone say, "Nothing
is easier and more user friendly than windows!'

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

 

[Sam I. Am]

Stephan,

I have tried Ubuntu. I have it now in a virtual machine (ver 7.04). But
until installing a new program is as easy as inserting the CD and have
it autorun, or by clicking on a setup executable, people are going to
stay away from it. I still can't get the virtual machine additions
loaded. I stopped trying. There must be magic voodoo that has to be
used.

So, to me Ubuntu is a slight diversion and will never be anything else.

You already have that on Windows. It's only reached 150,000~200,000
viruses, trojans and worms.

Why would linux want that? Why would Mac want that? Why do Windows users
put up with that?

 

[Guest]

is there a sane reason you choose to ignore the subject of this group and
continue to post your Linux crap?? obviously Linux users are self centered
and arrogant.
Take your Linux garbage to your particular area, we don't want it here.

 

[jonathan perreault]

like one of the movie caractor in the movie canadian bacon said "Like I
Care"

--
Jonathan Perreault

Personnal Advice To You:
#1: Do Not Undermine Windows's Work, Or It'll Undermine You As A User.
#2: Torture Windows (Any) Now Before It Tortures You

Best Comments From Users:
No Matter The Problem Even With Linux, It's Microsoft's And Windows's Faults

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

 

[Singer]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'

- clueless average on user on linux machine runs synaptic software
from 'start' menu (not like they would know the difference between
windows and linux, lol) and runs down the checklist picking the
software they want and amazed and delighted at how much software there
is listed there that 'OMG, how could there be more software than
this?' not realizing that the package manager will take care of the
download, install, dependencies, verify the download, etc. so the user
doesn't even have to think about these other problems they will run
into in windows.

Until the application is not on the server listed in their sources list.
Or, the application needs to be forced, or is locked etc.
Then he starts the Google machine going.

And let's assume all goes well with the download then the user goes to
start the application and can't figure out where the hell it got
installed because the install package didn't add it to his
start/application menu.
So he searches and finally stumbles on the konsole and since he knows the
name of the application, let's just call it Klines for example, he types
it and find it doesn't work because the programmer in his infinite wisdom
calles it kLiNeS.v92f-l.bz5 instead of Klines, or klines.

Or he finds that it got installed in some obscure location that his
distribution doesn't have listed in his bash envirnment so now he has to
figure where to change his environment .
Is it bashrc, is it .bash, is .profile is it all of them?

Good luck.....

That's what the average clueless idiot is up against with Linux.

 

[Singer]

You can either ...

1) Add the repository that contains the package you want to your
package manager and it'll then be included for installation selection,
or

2) Download a DEB file which is a Debian package and will install in
Ubuntu, since Ubuntu is Debian based, or

3) If the software you want is ONLY included in raw source code, then
you'll need to download the source code and compile it on your Ubuntu
computer. README files usually give instructions., or

4) If only a Redhat RPM version of the software is available, a
software program called Alien will convert that RPM to a DEB and then
simply double clicking on the DEB will install it.

The vast majority of your software requirements (25,000+ packages)
will be fulfilled by either 1 or 2.

Cheers.

You just proved his point, rather nicely I might add.
The average user doesn't stand a chance with Linux.

 

[Stephan Rose]

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'


Until the application is not on the server listed in their sources list.
Or, the application needs to be forced, or is locked etc. Then he starts
the Google machine going.

And let's assume all goes well with the download then the user goes to
start the application and can't figure out where the hell it got
installed because the install package didn't add it to his
start/application menu.
So he searches and finally stumbles on the konsole and since he knows
the name of the application, let's just call it Klines for example, he
types it and find it doesn't work because the programmer in his infinite
wisdom calles it kLiNeS.v92f-l.bz5 instead of Klines, or klines.

Or he finds that it got installed in some obscure location that his
distribution doesn't have listed in his bash envirnment so now he has to
figure where to change his environment . Is it bashrc, is it .bash, is
.profile is it all of them?

Good luck.....

That's what the average clueless idiot is up against with Linux.

I've yet to see any of that happening, and I actually have quite a few
people locally using latest version of Ubuntu and I can quite assure you,
none of them have any technical knowledge beyond how to press a mouse
button.

Problems so far: None.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰

 

[Singer]

I've yet to see any of that happening, and I actually have quite a few
people locally using latest version of Ubuntu and I can quite assure
you, none of them have any technical knowledge beyond how to press a
mouse button.

Problems so far: None.

Good for you.
I've seen it a gazillion times.

BTW, Ubuntu you say?
Did these mouse pressing clueless types manage to get multimedia,
including all the CODECS, DIVIX etc working all by themselves?

Hmmmm?