how to open nested folders from Start menu?

[Eric]

Does anyone know any clever solutions for the following problem? I would
like to access folders and their deeply-nested subfolders from menus and
their deeply-nested submenus. I would like to embed these menus and
submenus into the Start menu (or into any third-party menu similar to the
Start menu). I tried a few methods to embed them into the Start menu.
However, neither method works as I want.

Suppose that there are six folders in the C drive in the following
hierarchical order.

C:\animal\bear\camel\donkey\elephant\fox

Method 1: Drag the "camel" folder into the modern Start menu. Then, the
menu item "camel" appears in the left column of the modern Start menu.
However, no submenu stems out of "camel". I want to access camel's
descendant subfolders from submenus stemming out of "camel" in the Start
menu.

Method 2: Create a shortcut to the "camel" folder and place the shortcut
icon into the "Start Menu" folder in the user's folder in the "Documents and
Settings" folder in the root directory. Rename the shortcut icon to
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu". Then, "CamelShortcutInStartMenu" appears in
"All Programs" in the modern Start menu. If the Start menu is in the
classic mode, then "CamelShortcutInStartMenu" appears directly in the Start
menu.

Of the menu item "CamelShortcutInStartMenu", submenus "donkey", "elephant"
and "fox" stem out. However, I am still unable to achieve what I want. The
corresponding original folders do not open from these menu or submenus.
Instead, pseudofolders of the shortcut icons themselves open from these menu
and submenus. For example, double-click (or triple-click if necessary) the
menu item "CamelShortcutInStartMenu" in the classic Start menu (or in "All
Programs" in the modern Start menu). Then, the pseudofolder
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu" opens, while the original folder "camel" stays
closed.

A shortcut pseudofolder is a deceptive substitute for the original folder.
Before I noticed this deception, I believed that a shortcut placed in the
Start menu would open its corresponding original folder. If I double-click
a shortcut and if I make any changes to the view of the resultant open
folder, I expect the changes will be automatically saved in the original
folder that the shortcut points at. To my surprise, however, the changes
are lost, if the shortcut icon resides in the Start menu.

For example, double-click (or triple-click if necessary)
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu" in the Start menu. A folder-like object opens as
a result. Change the view of this folder-like object from "Icons" to
"Details" and sort its contents by "Date Modified". Close this folder-like
object. Then, open the original folder "camel". You will see that the
changes made to the view of the folder-like object are not reflected in the
original folder "camel".

Another disruption is brought by shortcuts being unable to open their
original folders. It is supposed to be very easy to navigate from a folder
to its parent folder, namely, by clicking the "Up" button on the toolbar of
the folder. However, shortcut pseudofolders disrupt this navigation. In
the above example, the parent folder of "camel" is "bear". However,
clicking the "Up" button on the toolbar of the pseudofolder
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu" does not open "bear"; instead, it opens the
"Start Menu" folder in the user's folder. It is extremely difficult to
navigate to "bear" from "CamelShortcutInStartMenu".

Neither Method 1 nor Method 2 above is satisfactory. Does anyone know any
tweaks that let the original folder open from a menu item, and let its
subfolders open from the submenus stemming out of the menu item? What about
any tweaks to the registry?

 

[Micky]

Does anyone know any clever solutions for the following problem? I would
like to access folders and their deeply-nested subfolders from menus and
their deeply-nested submenus. I would like to embed these menus and
submenus into the Start menu (or into any third-party menu similar to the
Start menu). I tried a few methods to embed them into the Start menu.
However, neither method works as I want.

Suppose that there are six folders in the C drive in the following
hierarchical order.

C:\animal\bear\camel\donkey\elephant\fox

Method 1: Drag the "camel" folder into the modern Start menu. Then, the
menu item "camel" appears in the left column of the modern Start menu.
However, no submenu stems out of "camel". I want to access camel's
descendant subfolders from submenus stemming out of "camel" in the Start
menu.

Method 2: Create a shortcut to the "camel" folder and place the shortcut
icon into the "Start Menu" folder in the user's folder in the "Documents
and
Settings" folder in the root directory. Rename the shortcut icon to
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu". Then, "CamelShortcutInStartMenu" appears in
"All Programs" in the modern Start menu. If the Start menu is in the
classic mode, then "CamelShortcutInStartMenu" appears directly in the
Start
menu.

Of the menu item "CamelShortcutInStartMenu", submenus "donkey", "elephant"
and "fox" stem out. However, I am still unable to achieve what I want.
The
corresponding original folders do not open from these menu or submenus.
Instead, pseudofolders of the shortcut icons themselves open from these
menu
and submenus. For example, double-click (or triple-click if necessary)
the
menu item "CamelShortcutInStartMenu" in the classic Start menu (or in "All
Programs" in the modern Start menu). Then, the pseudofolder
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu" opens, while the original folder "camel" stays
closed.

A shortcut pseudofolder is a deceptive substitute for the original folder.
Before I noticed this deception, I believed that a shortcut placed in the
Start menu would open its corresponding original folder. If I
double-click
a shortcut and if I make any changes to the view of the resultant open
folder, I expect the changes will be automatically saved in the original
folder that the shortcut points at. To my surprise, however, the changes
are lost, if the shortcut icon resides in the Start menu.

For example, double-click (or triple-click if necessary)
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu" in the Start menu. A folder-like object opens
as
a result. Change the view of this folder-like object from "Icons" to
"Details" and sort its contents by "Date Modified". Close this
folder-like
object. Then, open the original folder "camel". You will see that the
changes made to the view of the folder-like object are not reflected in
the
original folder "camel".

Another disruption is brought by shortcuts being unable to open their
original folders. It is supposed to be very easy to navigate from a
folder
to its parent folder, namely, by clicking the "Up" button on the toolbar
of
the folder. However, shortcut pseudofolders disrupt this navigation. In
the above example, the parent folder of "camel" is "bear". However,
clicking the "Up" button on the toolbar of the pseudofolder
"CamelShortcutInStartMenu" does not open "bear"; instead, it opens the
"Start Menu" folder in the user's folder. It is extremely difficult to
navigate to "bear" from "CamelShortcutInStartMenu".

Neither Method 1 nor Method 2 above is satisfactory. Does anyone know any
tweaks that let the original folder open from a menu item, and let its
subfolders open from the submenus stemming out of the menu item? What
about
any tweaks to the registry?

Why must it be on the start menu? Create a toolbar from the parent folder,
and place it next to the Start button on the taskbar. Simple and effective.

Alternatively, if it really must be on the start menu, use hard links, not
shortcuts.
Every file has one hard link by default, but they can have multiple hard
links
making it appear as though the file exists in several folders. Only one
instance
of the file physically exists, of course. Only when all hard links are
deleted is
the file itself deleted.

Syntax:
fsutil hardlink create NewFilename ExistingFilename

More info:
Consult online help for "hardlink".

 

[Eric]

Thank you for your reply, Micky.

Why must it be on the start menu?

Any menu that pops up from the taskbar is fine. In fact, any menu that pops
up from anywhere on the screen is fine, as long as the menu is always
available as the Start menu is always available.

Create a toolbar from the parent folder,
and place it next to the Start button
on the taskbar.

I do not know how to create a toolbar. Could you tell me how?

use hard links
Syntax:
fsutil hardlink create NewFilename ExistingFilename

Following your suggestion, I tried to create a hardlink to the folder
"camel". However, I got an error message, "Access is denied". I do not
understand why the access was denied, even though I logged in as an
administrator. Is it possible to create a hardlink to a folder? I cannot
create a hardlink to any folders, though I can successfully create hardlinks
to files.

 

[Micky]

Thank you for your reply, Micky.


Any menu that pops up from the taskbar is fine. In fact, any menu that
pops
up from anywhere on the screen is fine, as long as the menu is always
available as the Start menu is always available.


I do not know how to create a toolbar. Could you tell me how?

Right-click the taskbar.
Select Toolbars.
Select New Toolbar.
Browse to the parent folder.
The new toolbar will appear on the taskbar.

Alternatively, drag the folder itself to the taskbar,
or to any side of the desktop. A toolbar is created
automatically.

Once created, drag it into the desired position on the taskbar.

Following your suggestion, I tried to create a hardlink to the folder
"camel". However, I got an error message, "Access is denied". I do not
understand why the access was denied, even though I logged in as an
administrator. Is it possible to create a hardlink to a folder? I cannot
create a hardlink to any folders, though I can successfully create
hardlinks
to files.

My apologies, you need the resource kit to create hard links from folders.
However, you can achieve the same thing with sysinternals Junction program.
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Junction.html

 

[Eric]

Thank you for reply, Micky. It was very kind of you to
give me suggestions. Unfortunately, however, your
suggestions do not seem to work out in my situation.

use hard links, not shortcuts.

you need the resource kit to create hard links
from folders. However, you can achieve the
same thing with sysinternals Junction program.

I am afraid that hardlinks are the opposite of what I am
asking for. The annoying symptoms I described in my first
post in this thread are the characteristics of hardlinks.

Following your advice, I used junction.exe to create a link
to the existing folder "camel". As I said previously, the
folder "camel" is located in the following place.

I placed the new link created by junction.exe into the
"Start Menu" folder in the user's folder. I named the new
link "CamelJuncInStartMenu". Note that the naming, the
placement, and the creation occurred at the same time.

As I said in the first post, I would like to open the
original folder "camel". I do not want to open the bogus
folder "CamelJuncInStartMenu". However, selecting
"CamelJuncInStartMenu" in the Start menu opens the bogus
folder "CamelJuncInStartMenu".

As I wrote previously, bogus folders raise the following
two inconveniences. First, it is extremely difficult to
navigate from the bogus folder to the parent folder of the
original folder. In my example, the parent folder of
"camel" is "bear". Once "camel" is open, it is very easy
to navigate to "bear", namely, by clicking the "Up" button
on the toolbar in the window of the folder "camel".
However, clicking the "Up" button on the toolbar of the
bogus folder "CamelJuncInStartMenu" opens the "Start Menu"
folder in the user's folder. It is extremely difficult to
navigate from "CamelJuncInStartMenu" to "bear". I want to
be able to easily access "bear".

Second, from the bogus folder, the view attribute of the
original folder cannot be accessed. Before I noticed that
it was a bogus folder or a pseudofolder, I believed that I
was working in the original folder. I customized the view
of the folder. I closed the folder, which is now known to
be a bogus folder or a pseudofolder. Next, I opened the
real original folder. Then, I noticed that the customized
view was gone.

A hardlink to a folder has the above characteristics. They
are definitely nuisance to my situation, even though they
may be useful to some other situations that I am not
interested in.

What I need is the nature of a soft link, which opens the
original folder. A shortcut is a soft link. Normally, if
a folder shortcut is invoked, then the original folder will
open. The shortcut itself will not open. By "folder
shortcut", I mean a shortcut that points to a folder but
not to a file.

However, the problem arises when it comes to the poor
design of Windows XP. If a folder shortcut resides in the
"Start Menu" folder in the user's folder, then Windows will
treat the shortcut like a hard link, and the shortcut will
lose the nature of shortcut or of soft link. So, if a
folder shortcut resides in the "Start Menu" folder and if
the shortcut is invoked, then the shortcut itself will open
acting as a pseudofolder, and the original folder will stay
closed.

I want folder shortcuts in a menu to expand their original
folders. If the original folders contain subfolders, then
I want the menu to expand these original subfolders as
well.

In this regard, a menu in the taskbar that you (Micky)
suggested does not work.

Create a toolbar from the parent folder,
and place it next to the Start button
on the taskbar.

The parent of "camel" is "bear" as shown below.

C:\animal\bear\camel\donkey\elephant\fox

Following your advice, I embedded "bear" into the taskbar.
However, the folder "bear" contains a shortcut to another
folder, namely, "rock", whose location is shown below.

C:\hill\rock\stone\sand\

However, the menu that pops up from "bear" on the taskbar
does not expand "rock" at all. I also used a hardlink
instead of shortcut. Then, the menu that pops up from
"bear" on the taskbar expands the bogus folder and bogus
subfolders, but not the original folder or subfolders.

So, either in the Start menu or in the menu on the taskbar,
I want shortcuts in the menu to expand their original
folders and original subfolders. Does anyone know how to
achieve this feature?

 

[Micky]

Thank you for reply, Micky. It was very kind of you to
give me suggestions. Unfortunately, however, your
suggestions do not seem to work out in my situation.


I am afraid that hardlinks are the opposite of what I am
asking for. The annoying symptoms I described in my first
post in this thread are the characteristics of hardlinks.

Following your advice, I used junction.exe to create a link
to the existing folder "camel". As I said previously, the
folder "camel" is located in the following place.


I placed the new link created by junction.exe into the
"Start Menu" folder in the user's folder. I named the new
link "CamelJuncInStartMenu". Note that the naming, the
placement, and the creation occurred at the same time.

As I said in the first post, I would like to open the
original folder "camel". I do not want to open the bogus
folder "CamelJuncInStartMenu". However, selecting
"CamelJuncInStartMenu" in the Start menu opens the bogus
folder "CamelJuncInStartMenu".

As I wrote previously, bogus folders raise the following
two inconveniences. First, it is extremely difficult to
navigate from the bogus folder to the parent folder of the
original folder. In my example, the parent folder of
"camel" is "bear". Once "camel" is open, it is very easy
to navigate to "bear", namely, by clicking the "Up" button
on the toolbar in the window of the folder "camel".
However, clicking the "Up" button on the toolbar of the
bogus folder "CamelJuncInStartMenu" opens the "Start Menu"
folder in the user's folder. It is extremely difficult to
navigate from "CamelJuncInStartMenu" to "bear". I want to
be able to easily access "bear".

Second, from the bogus folder, the view attribute of the
original folder cannot be accessed. Before I noticed that
it was a bogus folder or a pseudofolder, I believed that I
was working in the original folder. I customized the view
of the folder. I closed the folder, which is now known to
be a bogus folder or a pseudofolder. Next, I opened the
real original folder. Then, I noticed that the customized
view was gone.

A hardlink to a folder has the above characteristics. They
are definitely nuisance to my situation, even though they
may be useful to some other situations that I am not
interested in.

What I need is the nature of a soft link, which opens the
original folder. A shortcut is a soft link. Normally, if
a folder shortcut is invoked, then the original folder will
open. The shortcut itself will not open. By "folder
shortcut", I mean a shortcut that points to a folder but
not to a file.

However, the problem arises when it comes to the poor
design of Windows XP. If a folder shortcut resides in the
"Start Menu" folder in the user's folder, then Windows will
treat the shortcut like a hard link, and the shortcut will
lose the nature of shortcut or of soft link. So, if a
folder shortcut resides in the "Start Menu" folder and if
the shortcut is invoked, then the shortcut itself will open
acting as a pseudofolder, and the original folder will stay
closed.

I want folder shortcuts in a menu to expand their original
folders. If the original folders contain subfolders, then
I want the menu to expand these original subfolders as
well.

In this regard, a menu in the taskbar that you (Micky)
suggested does not work.


The parent of "camel" is "bear" as shown below.

C:\animal\bear\camel\donkey\elephant\fox

Following your advice, I embedded "bear" into the taskbar.
However, the folder "bear" contains a shortcut to another
folder, namely, "rock", whose location is shown below.

C:\hill\rock\stone\sand\

However, the menu that pops up from "bear" on the taskbar
does not expand "rock" at all. I also used a hardlink
instead of shortcut. Then, the menu that pops up from
"bear" on the taskbar expands the bogus folder and bogus
subfolders, but not the original folder or subfolders.

So, either in the Start menu or in the menu on the taskbar,
I want shortcuts in the menu to expand their original
folders and original subfolders. Does anyone know how to
achieve this feature?

I'm sorry but I think we're at cross-purposes here.

First, if you create a shortcut (soft link) to a folder, and
place that shortcut on the start menu, it will not cascade.
But when selected, it will open the target folder, which
can be navigated normally using Windows Explorer.

Secondly, if you create a hard link to a folder, which
will cascade, then its simply impossible to access the
parent of the original folder. Remember that a hard
link allows the same folder to exist in multiple locations,
each with their own individual parents. You cannot use
a hard link's UP button to get to the original folder's
parent, only to the hard-link's own parent (such as
C:\..\Start Menu\Programs if that's where the hard-link
was placed).

Finally, toolbars are the only way to achieve a cascading
menu effect from a folder structure that doesn't itself reside
in the start menu.

However, there is a little quirk I failed to mention previously
(sorry 'bout that).

Firstly, the toolbar's title must be displayed. If it isn't shown,
right-click the toolbar and select Show title (if the option isn't
available, select Unlock Toolbar first, then lock when done).

Secondly, the toolbar must be squashed to its smallest size,
so only the title itself is shown. The only way to do that is to
place another toolbar alongside it. Once this is done, the
cascading overflow icon (>>) on the right of the title will
allow full access to the toolbar's subfolders, which will
cascade just like the start menu.

The ultimate example of this is to create the built-in Desktop
toolbar. This allows complete and unfettered navigation of
your entire system through a collapsable menu structure
rooted at the desktop. From here you can access all your
drives in My Computer, all your folders, control panel,
network, etc, etc.

Thus if you want to simply access camel's subfolders, you
would create a toolbar from the C:\animal\bear\camel folder
(this is what I meant by the parent -- the root fo the structure).
Once configured and squashed, the subfolder(s) of camel will
expand and collapse just like the start menu folders.

However, what you CANNOT do is go UP from the parent
(or root) folder (C:\animal\bear in your example). This simply
wouldn't make any sense in a cascading structure, since the
toolbar's parent folder (camel) has no parent of its own. It is
the root folder of the entire structure.

If you must allow access the parent folder, the only way to do
it is to create a shortcut to it. Thus you would create a shortcut
to C:\animal\bear and place it in C:\animal\bear\camel. Double-
clicking the shortcut from the toolbar will open C:\animal\bear
in Windows Explorer which can be navigated normally.

Sorry if that's not quite what you want, but (assuming I've
understood you correctly) I can't think of any alternatives.