Getting any scanner to work under Vista.

[PTravel]

I found this tip buried in a thread here, so I thought I'd share it.

I have an old, but very good, HP Scanner (a ScanJet 4c). It's a SCSI
scanner that I used with my old laptop under XP Pro (with a Microtech USB to
SCSI adapter). Though the SCSI adapter installed under Vista and Vista
could see and recognize the scanner, it wouldn't accept HP's drivers.

I got Vuescan from Hamrick software (www.hamrick.com). I installed the
software, re-installed the HP software, and now everything works perfectly,
even HP's very useful HP Copy utility. According to the Hamrick
documentation, it works with over 700 different scanners.

I have nothing to do with Hamrick, other than I like their product (which
saved me the cost of buying a new scanner). What I don't understand is if
Hamrick can do this with a standalone, why can't Microsoft simply build this
capability into the OS?

 

[kmelby]

Let me begin by saying that I, too, am using the Hamrick software for my HP
ScanJet 6250. This has been a great scanner with a document feeder, and has
been my workhorse. My ScanJet is considered obsolete by HP and no new
drivers are planned to be released so I will be using the Hamrick software
for some time to come.

That being said, it is up to HP to write the drivers for their devices, not
Microsoft. If HP had their drivers completed by the time Microsoft RTM'ed,
they would have been included in Vista. HP has usually been late with
drivers after the release of a new Microsoft operating system.

Kathleen

 

[Adam Leinss]

I have nothing to do with Hamrick, other than I like their product
(which saved me the cost of buying a new scanner). What I don't
understand is if Hamrick can do this with a standalone, why can't
Microsoft simply build this capability into the OS?

Someone from Microsoft answered that a few weeks ago...if Microsoft adds
too much functionality to their operating system, they will get sued by
companies that make a simliar product in the spirit of being anti-
competitive. Certain built-in programs such as PC Backup are limited just
because of this fact.

Adam

 

[PTravel]

Let me begin by saying that I, too, am using the Hamrick software for my
HP ScanJet 6250. This has been a great scanner with a document feeder, and
has been my workhorse. My ScanJet is considered obsolete by HP and no new
drivers are planned to be released so I will be using the Hamrick software
for some time to come.

That being said, it is up to HP to write the drivers for their devices,
not Microsoft. If HP had their drivers completed by the time Microsoft
RTM'ed, they would have been included in Vista. HP has usually been late
with drivers after the release of a new Microsoft operating system.

Kathleen

I agree, but HP is rather notorious about not supporting older hardware.

 

[PTravel]

Someone from Microsoft answered that a few weeks ago...if Microsoft adds
too much functionality to their operating system, they will get sued by
companies that make a simliar product in the spirit of being anti-
competitive. Certain built-in programs such as PC Backup are limited just
because of this fact.

Sorry, but that's complete garbage (I'm an attorney -- I know). Providing
drivers in the OS for existing 3rd party hardware does not, in any way
whatsoever, implicate illegal tying or anti-trust. Whoever responded for
Microsoft should stick to technical issues and leave the law to those of us
who actually understand it.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "PTravel"

I agree, but HP is rather notorious about not supporting older hardware.

Which is largely their own fault too -- If HP would stick with more
standardized interfaces across their entire product lines, we wouldn't
run into this.

HP has figured it out for the higher end product lines, but for their
low end consumer crap, HP seems to go out of their way to make sure
their products are limited to small ranges of drivers.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "PTravel"

Sorry, but that's complete garbage (I'm an attorney -- I know). Providing
drivers in the OS for existing 3rd party hardware does not, in any way
whatsoever, implicate illegal tying or anti-trust. Whoever responded for
Microsoft should stick to technical issues and leave the law to those of us
who actually understand it.

It's possible the same couple apply -- If MS creates a driver for
printer brand but not others, the other printer manufacturers might have
a valid tort.

 

[PTravel]

In message <[email protected]> "PTravel"


It's possible the same couple apply -- If MS creates a driver for
printer brand but not others, the other printer manufacturers might have
a valid tort.

One more time -- I'm a lawyer. That's garbage. There is no "tort" for
excluding someone's driver and excluding someone else's. This isn't
something for debate among lay people.

 

[GTS]

Someone from Microsoft answered that a few weeks ago...if Microsoft adds
too much functionality to their operating system, they will get sued by
companies that make a simliar product in the spirit of being anti-
competitive. Certain built-in programs such as PC Backup are limited just
because of this fact.

Adam

That's mostly nonsense. MS's legal problems arose from artificial product
tying and obstruction or 3rd party products, not for inclusion of it's own.

 

[PTravel]

In message <[email protected]> "PTravel"


Which is largely their own fault too -- If HP would stick with more
standardized interfaces across their entire product lines, we wouldn't
run into this.

HP has figured it out for the higher end product lines, but for their
low end consumer crap, HP seems to go out of their way to make sure
their products are limited to small ranges of drivers.

And I agree with this, as well. Unfortunately, HP makes pretty nice
scanners. I'll note, though, that Microsoft supports an awful lot of
hardware in Vista. I've been surprised by how much stuff I can just plug in
and Vista recognizes it and automatically installs an internal driver. HP
isn't exactly an obcure little fly-by-night. It would have been nice if
Microsoft made some provision for this very popular hardware manufacturer.

 

[DevilsPGD]

That's mostly nonsense. MS's legal problems arose from artificial product
tying and obstruction or 3rd party products, not for inclusion of it's own.

Perhaps you missed the little antitrust thing with the USDOJ, or the
current troubles in Europe (IE and Media Player)?

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "PTravel"

One more time -- I'm a lawyer. That's garbage. There is no "tort" for
excluding someone's driver and excluding someone else's. This isn't
something for debate among lay people.

Most of the lawyers I've worked with in my professional life have been
much better with details then you are.

I didn't say excluding someone's driver and excluding someone else's.
Nor did I say "including someone's driver and excluding someone else's"

I said "Creates a driver" -- There is a world of difference.

 

[PTravel]

In message <[email protected]> "PTravel"


Most of the lawyers I've worked with in my professional life have been
much better with details then you are.

And most people I encounter in my professional life are more civil.

I didn't say excluding someone's driver and excluding someone else's.
Nor did I say "including someone's driver and excluding someone else's"

Good. I'm glad I can count on you to catch my typos. My secretary usually
does that.

I said "Creates a driver" -- There is a world of difference.

Not as a matter of law. Microsoft could create drivers (and, in fact, does)
for any 3rd party it wants, and can exclude drivers for any 3rd party that
it wants, without running afoul of anti-trust laws and without committing a
tort.

As I said, this is not a topic for general debate by lay people.

 

[Adam Leinss]

That's mostly nonsense. MS's legal problems arose from artificial
product tying and obstruction or 3rd party products, not for inclusion
of it's own.

Right.

Microsoft includes MSN with the OS, AOL cries foul because Microsoft is
providing their own Internet service unfairly.

Microsoft includes Internet Explorer with the OS and Netscape complains.

Microsoft includes Windows Media Player with the OS and Real Player
complains.

Whatever "good" software Microsoft may put into their OS that someone is
already selling outside of Microsoft can claim Microsoft is unfairly
pushing them out of the market.

Microsoft must carefully decide what and what not to include into their OS.
My guess with Vuescan (OK, more then a guess since I've used it as well) is
that it's more then driver support, but there are actually TWAIN pieces
driving your scanner. If Microsoft universally supports 700+ scanners,
what happens to Vuescan?

Answer: Law suit. One does not have to be a lawyer to see the possiblites.

Another fact: many companies decide not to pursue Microsoft based on cost.
Check out Bill Gates (Biography (a & E)) by Jeanne M. Lesinski sometime.

Adam

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <#[email protected]> "PTravel"

And I agree with this, as well. Unfortunately, HP makes pretty nice
scanners.

HP's higher end gear is pretty impressive. I have a brand HP Colour
Laserjet 2605dnxi here, it's a beautiful printer. One of the perks of
buying a modern unit aimed at business customers is that it pretty much
just works straight out of the box. No driver upgrade required to start
printing, and the drivers I did install were purely a feature upgrade.

Not only that, but even though the printer is a network capable device,
the print jobs can be configured to go through one of my servers. This
meant as soon as I installed the print drivers on my server, all the
workstations upgraded themselves and had full functionality as well.

I haven't been as impressed with their scanners, but I've only had the
"pleasure" to work with the lower end ones myself.

I'll note, though, that Microsoft supports an awful lot of
hardware in Vista. I've been surprised by how much stuff I can just plug in
and Vista recognizes it and automatically installs an internal driver.

Yeah, it's rather impressive how painless the process is with some
manufacturers. Others, not so much.

HP isn't exactly an obcure little fly-by-night.

No they're not -- All the more reason you'd think they'd have bothered
to put together drivers before Vista went out the door. Perhaps if
Vista had been delayed a couple years from the original release date,
then HP could have had time to write up some drivers.

I suspect a different reason -- My last multi-function unit was an HP
PSC750. Under Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP this required HP's drivers, which
among other things, weren't fully TWAIN compliant, prevented the unit
from networking at all in the default configuration, and if you forced
it, allowed very minimal driver functionality.

Along came XP SP2, the Microsoft supplied driver gave full functionality
including networking. The changes were required for the driver to pass
Microsoft's certification to be included in XP SP2.

This cuts into HP's profit, if any idiot can just share out their little
desktop printer, why should a small office buy every user their own, or
pay the premium for networkable printers.

By arriving late to the game, HP can pull their old tricks and put
whatever limitations they want into their products since the drivers
come directly from HP and not through Microsoft.

It would have been nice if
Microsoft made some provision for this very popular hardware manufacturer.

What provision was needed? HP knew the deadline to have their drivers
included, HP failed to provide drivers.

Not only did my discontinued-9-months-ago Canon multi-function unit work
with Vista out of the box, Canon already offers fully functional drivers
and software for download (comparable to XP, with the exception that
it's "ScanGear Starter" program can't recognize the "Scan" buttons on
the multifunction unit, so I have to start the scan from the PC -- Not a
big deal in the grand scheme of things -- And it's an app limitation,
the drivers pass the buttons up to the OS)

Canon supplied the drivers to Microsoft. Why couldn't a "isn't exactly
an obscure little fly-by-night" operation like HP manage to do that?

 

[Hugh Wyn Griffith]

And let me say, one more time, that you don't need to go out and buy
any software to get old HP Scanjets running under VISTA -- I bet the
software you buy is using TWAIN and you can get free Deskscan 2.9
software by downloading it from the HP web site and installing it.

My SJ 5P scsi connected with Adaptec 19160 scsi controller is working
fine under VISTA, as it did under XP and W2K, using this software,
which BTW includes a very neat copy utility that gives you a zooming
copy machine from your scanner and printer.

Do a search here on TWAIN and I'm sure you'll find messages about this,
or just go to HP and do a search on DeskScan 2.9

 

[PTravel]

Microsoft must carefully decide what and what not to include into their
OS.
My guess with Vuescan (OK, more then a guess since I've used it as well)
is
that it's more then driver support, but there are actually TWAIN pieces
driving your scanner. If Microsoft universally supports 700+ scanners,
what happens to Vuescan?

Answer: Law suit. One does not have to be a lawyer to see the
possiblites.

No, one only has to be a lawyer to see the realistic possibilities.

TWAIN is a standard -- Microsoft can and does support it.
Including drivers does not implicate tying.

Of course, I'm sure all you non-lawyers know better than me.

Another fact: many companies decide not to pursue Microsoft based on cost.
Check out Bill Gates (Biography (a & E)) by Jeanne M. Lesinski sometime.

Everyone here who has actually litigated against Microsoft raise your hands.

Hmmm. Looks like I'm the only one with my hand in the air. How 'bout that.

 

[PTravel]

And let me say, one more time, that you don't need to go out and buy
any software to get old HP Scanjets running under VISTA -- I bet the
software you buy is using TWAIN and you can get free Deskscan 2.9
software by downloading it from the HP web site and installing it.

I did. Though it may have installed the TWAIN driver, Vista still couldn't
access my scanner. In fact, according to Device Manager, it still can't --
it shows up under "Other Devices" indicating that the driver couldn't start.
Nonetheless, Vuescan seems to be able to talk to it just fine.

My SJ 5P scsi connected with Adaptec 19160 scsi controller is working
fine under VISTA, as it did under XP and W2K, using this software,
which BTW includes a very neat copy utility that gives you a zooming
copy machine from your scanner and printer.

I suspect part of the problem is my non-standard SCSI interface. I'm using
a USB to SCSI adapter made by Microtech. The adapter is obsolete (the
driver date is 2000), yet Vista recognized it and installed it (with the
Microtech-supplied driver) just fine. DeskScan expects to find a SCSI
adapter, but doesn't seem to like the Microtech. I used to use this with an
Adaptec SCSI PCMCIA card on my old laptop, but this particular card isn't
supported under Vista, and I really don't want to buy another (plus the USB
to SCSI is more convenient -- I can leave it plugged in to the docking
station all the time).

 

[Scott]

That's mostly nonsense. MS's legal problems arose from artificial product
tying and obstruction or 3rd party products, not for inclusion of it's own.

I take it you've not heard of Windows Vista Home N, and Windows Vista
Business N?
--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

 

[kmelby]

I tried the Deskscan 2.9 and it still won't work. I have the scanner hooked
up via usb whereas Deskscan 2.9 insists upon using SCSI. I can see the
scanner in the imaging devices section of the device manager, but can't use
Deskscan, nor Windows Fax and Scan.

I can see the scanner from the control panel under scanners and cameras.
When I look at the properties, it says HP ScanJet 6200C, Manufacturer
Hamrick Software, Model HP ScanJet 6200C, On Port \\.\Usbscan0, and Status
Unavailable. When I look at the Scan Profiles it says "No scanners were
detected. If a scanner is installed, make sure that it is powered on and
connected to the computer, and then try again. ....."

I'm not complaining, I can still use the scanner with VueScan, which does
all and more than Deskscan 2.9 or my old program, PrescisionScan Pro, ever
did. I don't feel like inserting a SCSI card just to try to see if Deskscan
will work. I can also dual-boot into XP Pro where the scanner works
natively.

I just wish HP was more timely in releasing drivers for their hardware. I
have a Laserjet 1200, Photosmart D5160, and networked Officejet 7410 that
only function marginally and also need my XP Pro/boot in order to fully
function. :-(

Kathleen