Get a Mac!

[Robert Firth]

So, if under the hood is Unix, does that mean that Apple copied Unix/the
Unix model in OS X? Ah, thats ok. Apple is allowed to copy.

--
/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Robert Firth *
* Windows Vista x86 RTM *
* http://www.WinVistaInfo.org *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Not really, but if you say so...

 

[Maverick]

So, if under the hood is Unix, does that mean that Apple copied Unix/the
Unix model in OS X? Ah, thats ok. Apple is allowed to copy.

Copy? You don't know your history too well do you.
Apple purchased NextStep... a UNIX variant.
And that is pretty much what you'll find in the Apple headers are NS
type objects.
Now tell me how many companies that Microsoft has purchased in the past.

 

[Donna Buenaventura]

BTW, seen Apple Fun blog? http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/index.html and
http://applefun.blogspot.com/
The last entry they got is.. "Unspecified Kernel Remote Fun"

People can use whatever system they want to use but the fact remains...
"There's no 100% secure Operating System even a Mac"

--
Regards,
Donna Buenaventura
Windows Security MVP
w: http://cou.dozleng.com
b: http://msmvps.com/donna

 

[Lang Murphy]

Most of the posts in here are going to be from folks who are having issues
installing Vista. Probably not going to see a lot of posts saying "No
problem." I've installed Vista on at least 8 different computer models and
not had an issue with any of the RTM code.

Yeah, Macs are OK if you like spending mucho cash for a proprietary
system -and- spending mucho cash for OS upgrades every year, otherwise known
as FREE Service Packs for Windows. Yeah, sure, buy a Mac. I have no problem
with that... for real.

Lang

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

It's good to see some people here are as ignorant about Macs as the OP
seems to be about Windows. That's what I call keeping everything balanced!

Nice to out yourself as ignorant but I really didnt expect you to do so.

 

[Maverick]

BTW, seen Apple Fun blog? http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/index.html
and http://applefun.blogspot.com/
The last entry they got is.. "Unspecified Kernel Remote Fun"

People can use whatever system they want to use but the fact remains...
"There's no 100% secure Operating System even a Mac"

Of course, but after using a mac for three years without ever getting a
virus or whatever, it makes you wonder if that statement is correct anymore.

 

[Adam Albright]

Of course, but after using a mac for three years without ever getting a
virus or whatever, it makes you wonder if that statement is correct anymore.

Two things:

1. Mac makes you buy THEIR hardware. So duh, that alone prevents a lot
of hardware driver issues because if you have a PC and 9 out of 10
personal computer users do, there are thousands of vendors to pick
from and that many more things to go wrong.

2. Mac's don't pick up as many virus for one simple reason. Has
absolutely nothing to do with their OS. If you were a black hat
hacker, why would you waste your time trying to mess with a system
only 1 in 10 used, when you could mess with a system that 9 out 10
use by trying to hack into Windows.

 

[None]

Most of the posts in here are going to be from folks who are having issues
installing Vista. Probably not going to see a lot of posts saying "No
problem." I've installed Vista on at least 8 different computer models and
not had an issue with any of the RTM code.

Yeah, Macs are OK if you like spending mucho cash for a proprietary
system -and- spending mucho cash for OS upgrades every year, otherwise known
as FREE Service Packs for Windows. Yeah, sure, buy a Mac. I have no problem
with that... for real.

Lang

Earth to Lang -

Earth to Lang -

Windows is MUCH, MUCH more proprietary than Apple's OSX.

Almost 100% of OSX is open source, nearly 90% of Windows is CLOSED
source. So it sounds like aren't understanding what is going on here.

Macs are far more "open", very few limits, unlike Windows and their
mismash of hardware standards. Apple ONLY supports "standards"... Give
it a try!

Earth to Lang -

Earth to Lang -

All "service packs" as you call them have been FREE for OSX! Not a
single penny has been spent by a single Mac user on them. Yes, we have
HUGE upgrades that cost around $99 every 2 years, but even "1" of them
is much more extensive than the XP to Vista "upgrade" you are muddling
through now, or as you like to call it a "service pack".

Someday you'll move up to a Mac. It's only a matter of time.

 

[None]

People can use whatever system they want to use but the fact remains...
"There's no 100% secure Operating System even a Mac"

yes, I agree, but the FACT remains OSX is 100% secure after 10's of
millions of machines used in more demanding situations that PCs are...
As of this post, "Zero" have been compromised.

Could it happen? Sure... but Windows users don't understand they are
still trying to use "Windows" which was NEVER designed to be on
Networks... OSX was... and it's the OS that brought the world something
called the "world wide web" <--- look it up, if you haven't heard of it
before. OSX is a NETWORK OS, everything is locked down, there is no way
for a virus to move from machine to machine. it's impossible.

OSX is the most secure "popular" OS in use today. Zero Viruses in over 6
years of use by 40 million machines online 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, 365 days a year. "Do the Math!".

 

[None]

Two things:

1. Mac makes you buy THEIR hardware. So duh, that alone prevents a lot
of hardware driver issues because if you have a PC and 9 out of 10
personal computer users do, there are thousands of vendors to pick
from and that many more things to go wrong.

Yes, Correct Adam! That's why Macs work so well, and in contrast PCs
running windows DO NOT. It's a much better approach if you want to get
something done in the modern age. If you don't care about yourself, or
"your time", you get a Windows machine. It's really that simple.

2. Mac's don't pick up as many virus for one simple reason. Has
absolutely nothing to do with their OS. If you were a black hat
hacker, why would you waste your time trying to mess with a system
only 1 in 10 used, when you could mess with a system that 9 out 10
use by trying to hack into Windows

You mean, they don't pick up ANY viruses because it's based on Unix
which doesn't allow for the kind of ActiveX, Macro/Script problems that
Microsoft was soooo poor at programing.

OSX is the GOLD STANDARD in terms of the ULTIMATE GOAL of a HACKER.

The best in the world have tried and tried, but they just can't crack a
Mac running OSX. It's the most sought after machine to crack/hack, but
Unix coupled with the way Apple separated the "Admin User" from "Root"
has made it IMPOSSIBLE.

Windows is easy to crack/hack since it's so poorly made, that's the real
reason Windows users suffer every day.

 

[None]

Sorry b ut untrue. They are less reliable (the OS) than XPSP2 is actually.
They cost more, are slower and there are not as many programs written for
it. They can crash and you can continue typing a document without it telling
you that until you manually choose to save and realise the lot is lost.

What????? When did OSX become less stable than XP?

Even Windows Fanboys understand OSX is the most stable OS in popular use
today. You are simply incorrect. XP is fairly stable, but nothing like
OSX. OSX has 14,000 modern Applications, Windows only has around 2,400.

All in all, what Mac has is "I wanna be different to the rest of you" and I
have been there and done that with Amigas which did what Macs could do 3
years before Macs could do it. I found out that I was spending more when PCs
were doing it.

No, no, no. You are uneducated. OSX is the GOLD standard now of all
operating systems. You are thinking of Windows98 and MacOS 9, so your
information is about 7 years old. When you get into the level of Apple's
Unix based OSX... Apple is the clear winner now.

However, please do keep playing in the wading pond. I will continue to make
splashes in the deep end of the pool.

OSX is the big pond, the internet runs on UNIX, not Windows... so I
think you mean, Windows is in the shallow end of a dirty puddle. OSX is
what you really want.

This is what the BIG BOYS use Diamontina --->

http://www.apple.com/macosx/techspecs/

 

[None]

You ought to look at Security web pages (computer security) to see that Macs
have more problems than you think.

But they have never been breached... that's the difference.

 

[None]

I think that whatever brand someone starts out with - they stay with it and
extol it's virtues.
Back in the"old" days Apple shot itself in the foot via "no backward comp
between the Apple, Apple IIc, etc (same with Commodore, Texas Instruments,
Franklin, etc.) - keyboard and monitor were not included - priced extra.

What???? Apple provide PLENTY of backward compatibility with the Apple
//. They made many Macs that ran Apple Software just fine. Even today,
you can run most all Apple // software on a Mac. You don't know what you
are talking about.

We had the "PC clones" and at first Apple clones by Franklin - who Apple
went at with a vengeance - PCs were available in Mom and Pop and "discount"
stores - Apple withdrew from all such sales outlets (in fact read a CompUSA
ad and somewhere in fine print it will state "Apple authorized reseller)

Had the opportunity several years ago of "playing" with my grandsons' Mac -
very disappointed when I found out (too late) that moving "shortcuts" to the
trash deleted the program they represented - I understand that has been
corrected.

No, no. You are incorrect again. Moving an "alias" as NEVER deleted a
program from a Mac. It's clear you deleted the "program", not the
shortcut / alias. Your fault, not the Macs.

Oh well - you take a bite of your apple and I'll play with my Windows Vista
PC.

Vista is the latest imitation of Apple's Mac, so while some people want
to suffer through life with a cheap copy, some people "like me" want the
real computer. Get a Mac and you'll see the difference.

 

[Maverick]

Two things:

1. Mac makes you buy THEIR hardware. So duh, that alone prevents a lot
of hardware driver issues because if you have a PC and 9 out of 10
personal computer users do, there are thousands of vendors to pick
from and that many more things to go wrong.

Of course. A long time ago I purchased a VAX because of this very same
principle. Integrated hardware software is a much better deal in the
long run.

2. Mac's don't pick up as many virus for one simple reason. Has
absolutely nothing to do with their OS.

Oh yes it does have everything to do with the os. Show me one UNIX
system that has caught a virus. Of course the principle of a virus is
that it has to spread from machine to machine on the internet.

If you were a black hat
hacker, why would you waste your time trying to mess with a system
only 1 in 10 used, when you could mess with a system that 9 out 10
use by trying to hack into Windows.

Windows can be had because it can be done.
If any black hat hacker can write a virus for OS X, he'd be pretty
famous! After three years of OS X use, I've yet to see one virus. It
does speak volumes and is a testament to it being pretty secure. The
rest has to do with how well M$ markets its software and how they cut
deals with PC vendors. All good business management from their
perspective. When you go into a major big box store what do you see?
Windows PCs. Where is the competition? There used to be competition by
many vendors but M$ has figured out how to shove them off the shelves
for good.
You do realize that now one can purchase from Sun Microsystems a dual
core amd 64 box for under $1k?

 

[Maverick]

Yes, Correct Adam! That's why Macs work so well, and in contrast PCs
running windows DO NOT. It's a much better approach if you want to get
something done in the modern age. If you don't care about yourself, or
"your time", you get a Windows machine. It's really that simple.

Same with a Sun system, OpenVMS system, IRIX systems, etc. I've always
went the bundled vendor route anyways as it pretty much guarantees that
you'll be up and running in no time.

You mean, they don't pick up ANY viruses because it's based on Unix
which doesn't allow for the kind of ActiveX, Macro/Script problems that
Microsoft was soooo poor at programing.

OSX is the GOLD STANDARD in terms of the ULTIMATE GOAL of a HACKER.

Also, DEFCON 9, Las Vegas, Nev. had a few years ago a challenge to all
hackers to break into the VMS os. There were other operating systems
there as well. It took the challengers about 3 mins. to break into
windows, about 3 hours to break into UNIX, but after three days they
gave up on VMS. Since then the UNIX vendors fixed their holes and last
I've heard it was pretty much iron clad secure.

The best in the world have tried and tried, but they just can't crack a
Mac running OSX. It's the most sought after machine to crack/hack, but
Unix coupled with the way Apple separated the "Admin User" from "Root"
has made it IMPOSSIBLE.

That is one area you can't get into the heads of many so called OS X
experts. )
But you are correct.
If it ever happens to be cracked, that individual will be pretty famous
for doing so. With windows, it is hacked because it can be hacked.
Sort of like kids with a paintball gun.

 

[Maverick]

yes, I agree, but the FACT remains OSX is 100% secure after 10's of
millions of machines used in more demanding situations that PCs are...
As of this post, "Zero" have been compromised.

Could it happen? Sure... but Windows users don't understand they are
still trying to use "Windows" which was NEVER designed to be on
Networks... OSX was... and it's the OS that brought the world something
called the "world wide web" <--- look it up, if you haven't heard of it
before. OSX is a NETWORK OS, everything is locked down, there is no way
for a virus to move from machine to machine. it's impossible.

OSX is the most secure "popular" OS in use today. Zero Viruses in over 6
years of use by 40 million machines online 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, 365 days a year. "Do the Math!".

The only thing that keeps me from getting over a year on uptime are the
os upgrades from Panther to Tiger.
My old vms system had an uptime of around 8 years and one system in
Ireland that controls the railroads has an uptime of over 17 years.

 

[Adam Albright]

Of course. A long time ago I purchased a VAX because of this very same
principle. Integrated hardware software is a much better deal in the
long run.

Care to explain how having a very limited choice of hardware and to a
lessor extent software is "better"?

Oh yes it does have everything to do with the os. Show me one UNIX
system that has caught a virus. Of course the principle of a virus is
that it has to spread from machine to machine on the internet.

No such principle at all. I'll just whisper so nobody else hears, ALL
operating systems are subject to catching a virus, worm, trojan, etc..
and all operating systems are riddled with coding errors, bugs, and
cut and paste fixes that hold things to together.

Windows can be had because it can be done.

ANY software can be "had". I suggest you visit
alt.fan.malicious.hackers. But be careful, lots of crazies hang out
there.

If any black hat hacker can write a virus for OS X, he'd be pretty
famous! After three years of OS X use, I've yet to see one virus. It
does speak volumes and is a testament to it being pretty secure.

You really are badly informed. Sorry.

The rest has to do with how well M$ markets its software and how they cut
deals with PC vendors. All good business management from their
perspective. When you go into a major big box store what do you see?
Windows PCs. Where is the competition? There used to be competition by
many vendors but M$ has figured out how to shove them off the shelves
for good.
You do realize that now one can purchase from Sun Microsystems a dual
core amd 64 box for under $1k?

I forgot more then you could ever hope to realize kid.

 

[Lang Murphy]

I had a Mac SE30 back in the day. It crashed all the time. I suspected bad
memory but was unwilling to invest.

A guy I work with, who is a dyed in the wool PC geek, recently got a MacBook
Pro or whatever they're called. The first day he brought it into work, he
was all proud and sh*t about his new toy. He was like "Hey, lookit this...
running VMWare (or something) and BANG! the Apple equivilent of a BSOD. LOL.
Yeah, Mac's never crash.

Oh, yeah, Apple's not proprietary at all. I can run OSX on, uh, what? Apple
hardware? Naw, that ain't proprietary at all. I can run Vista on a Mac. I
can't run OSX on a PC. Hmm...

I was equating Windows SP's to Mac OS upgrades, which from what I've read
from posts from Mac owners in the Vista NG's come about once a year or two,
at most, and cost approximately $100.

And... for the record, if I had the spare cash lying around, I -would- buy a
Mac. I'm not anti-Mac, I'm anti-FUD.

Lang

 

[Maverick]

Care to explain how having a very limited choice of hardware and to a
lessor extent software is "better"?

What ever makes you think there is a limited choice of hardware?
I've got all I need. The same for those that purchased any wintel hardware.

No such principle at all.

Yes there is. In order for a virus to be effective, it has to spread.
I've seen proof of concepts go bust on UNIX platforms because it won't
spread.

I'll just whisper so nobody else hears, ALL
operating systems are subject to catching a virus, worm, trojan, etc..
and all operating systems are riddled with coding errors, bugs, and
cut and paste fixes that hold things to together.

Guffaw!!! Yet you are unable to provied any proof of such.
Just bogus thin air claims that you can't back up.

ANY software can be "had". I suggest you visit
alt.fan.malicious.hackers. But be careful, lots of crazies hang out
there.

Yeah, right. Like in DEVCON series in Las Vegas? Guffaw!!
Windows took about 3 minutes to bust in. All too easy for these guys.
Yet it took them over 3 hours to bust in on an obvious UNIX box with
illegal tools.
And after three days, OpenVMS stayed in tact.
I've seen those clowns over there, and they will admit that they cannot
get into VMS. PERIOD.
The challenge has been given a long time ago and the challenge to break
into VMS still stands.
You are woefully misinformed.

You really are badly informed. Sorry.

Guffaw!!! You are so clueless, that your ears burn bright red.
Only an idiot would believe that windows is secure, yet the security
analysts say that over 85% of the viruses out there are not checked by
Vista and slip thru. Some security.
Yet we find no anti-virus software for sale except for windows.

I forgot more then you could ever hope to realize kid.

Guffaw!! I'm retired, junior. I've been in it since the mid 60s.
I've got more time in the chow line than you have in life.