Formatting New HDD

[Guest]

Hi,

I wish to format a new harddrive. I will probably format and partition it
through Setup during the Win XP installation. I have several questions that
I hope someone could help me with:

1) Is partitionning and formatting a blank HDD through Win XP setup as
effective as partitionning and formatting a drive using FDisk.exe and
FORMAT.exe commands?

2) I want to seperate my system partition (C:\) from my boot partion ( D:\ -
where I will install Win XP). Will I need to setup the C: drive as the
Primary and Active partition before installing Win XP to D: ? Will Win XP
setup automatically place the system files on the C: drive when I install the
OS to D: drive?

 

[Harry Ohrn]

| Hi,
|
| I wish to format a new harddrive. I will probably format and partition it
| through Setup during the Win XP installation. I have several questions
that
| I hope someone could help me with:
|
| 1) Is partitionning and formatting a blank HDD through Win XP setup as
| effective as partitionning and formatting a drive using FDisk.exe and
| FORMAT.exe commands?
|
| 2) I want to seperate my system partition (C:\) from my boot partion (
D:\ -
| where I will install Win XP). Will I need to setup the C: drive as the
| Primary and Active partition before installing Win XP to D: ? Will Win XP
| setup automatically place the system files on the C: drive when I install
the
| OS to D: drive?
|

To answer question #1 - it is as effective, easier to do and more efficient.

For question #2 - Why do you want to have a separate boot partition? Are you
planning on running multiple operating systems? It will help us to answer if
you can explain your rationale for wanting XP on D and creating a bootable C
partition.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Enrique.

First, throw away that MS-DOS boot disk, or at least hide it so that you
won't be tempted to use it again. You should not need it - or FDISK or
Format.com - again. WinXP has all the tools you need to manage HDs and
partitions. (Having said, that, let me back up and say that there are a few
jobs where you might need the old MS-DOS tools, but only a few, such as
formatting large volumes (over 32 GB) as FAT32 - but there's no need for
FAT32 unless you'll be installing Win9x/ME on this computer, as a dual-boot
system, for example.) One of the hardest things for many users to do, but
one of the most important, is to shake off the MS-DOS/Win9x mindset; WinXP
looks like Win9x on the surface, but it's built quite differently underneath
and many things must be done differently, especially in managing HDs and
other hardware.

To format a new HD as the System and Boot Volumes with WinXP, just
physically install the HD as primary Master (and it's best to not have any
other HD connected until after WinXP is installed). Then set your computer
to boot from CD. Insert the WinXP CD-ROM and boot. Follow the prompts,
including the early one that asks if you want to partition and format the
HD. Say yes, but pay close attention; if you're not careful, you'll get the
default, which is to format the entire HD as a single partition. You want
to limit this first partition to the size you want for your System Partition
(Drive C; for WinXP. This should be at least 5 GB; 10 GB would be better
if you have plenty of HD space, since WinXP has a habit of growing faster
than we expect, even if we try hard to convince all our applications to put
their files somewhere besides C:.

Once the System Partition is created and formatted, you can tell Setup to
create an extended partition using the rest of the HD, then create a logical
drive (D in that space, format it, and install WinXP there.

After WinXP is up and running, you should use Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc
from the Run prompt) to handle the rest of your disk and partition
functions. DM can create partitions and logical drives, delete them, format
them, and reassign drive letters. DM's ability to manage the System and
Boot volumes is limited, but it can manage all the others.

You might want to read these pages from the online version of the WinXP Pro
Resource Kit:
Creating Volumes During Windows XP Professional Setup
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...indows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prork_overview.asp

RC

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, again, Enrique.

Whoops! My previous post needs to be changed just a little...

The System Partition does NOT need to be 5-10 GB. In fact, it need not be
larger than 8 MB, which is the smallest partition WinXP can create. The
only things that MUST be in this partition are the boot sector (which is not
a file at all) and the few "system files" (NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and
Boot.ini), which total well under 1 MB.

It is the Boot Volume which should be at least 5 to 10 GB in size. This
volume will hold the Boot Folder (named \Windows by default), with its
dozens of subfolders and thousands of files, totaling around 1 GB to start,
and growing from there.

My own Drive C: is 715 MB (for legacy reasons) and holds a number of old DOS
utilities, BIOS binary files, etc., in addition to the system files. It is
formatted FAT(16) for maximum compatibility, and can be read from an MS-DOS
boot disk if need be. I established partition this back in about 1998, when
I first dual-booted using Win95 and WinNT4; FAT(16) was the only format that
both those OSes could read.

I like having the System Partition separate. Then I create an extended
partition using the rest of the HD, in which I create and delete logical
drives as needed from time to time. WinXP is in D:, applications in E:, and
data in F:. Other logical drives (on multiple HDs) hold (or held) other
Windows versions, such as Win98, Win2K3, a parallel installation of WinXP
(for troubleshooting and repair of my main WinXP), and the preview version
of Longhorn. (That's not exactly the way my system is set up now, but it's
close enough for this discussion.) With this partition arrangement, I can
add or remove volumes, or reformat them, without disturbing all the others.

RC

 

[Guest]

Hi Harry and R.C. White:

Thanks for all the useful information. Your thoughts are truly appreciated.

Do you have any thoughts on which file system - FAT or NTFS - should be used?

Since I will partition and format a 40GB hdd for my laptop, this is the
configuration I envision:
C: drive - 1GB (Sytem files)NTFS
D: drive - 14GB (OS)NTFS
E: drive - 12.5 (Apps/Utilities)NTFS
F: drive - 12.5 (Data)NTFS

I am separating my system partition from the boot partition for two reasons.
Firstly, as an added security measure should someone access my C: drive they
won't find my OS and data there - making it a little more difficult to wreak
havoc on my system. Secondly, I hope that I can run MS-DOS from the C:
drive, in the event that the OS fails, I can at least obtain a C:> prompt to
begin repairs or retreive data.

All my system files will be on the C: drive in my configuration.
1- Can I also add MS-DOS system files to the C: drive as well? Will MS-DOS
operate in NTFS? I won't have enough space for a double OS installation, and
would like to be able to boot back to a C:\> prompt should the OS become
corrupt.

I've heard that over time the OS will tend to grow and consume more space on
the hard drive.
2- Is this due to Microsoft updates and service packs? Or is it due to
applications depositing their files in the OS?

3-If, applications do rely on the OS that heavily (both using OS dll's and
adding their own shared files to the OS), then shouldn't applications coexist
in the same partition as the OS?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for all the insight. Your thoughts are truly appreciated.

1) Do you have any thoughts on which file system - FAT or NTFS - should be
used?

Since I will partition and format a 40GB hdd for my laptop, this is the
configuration I envision:
C: drive - 1GB (Sytem files)
D: drive - 14GB (OS)
E: drive - 12.5 (Apps/Utilities)
F: drive - 12.5 (Data)

I am separating my system partition from the boot partition for two reasons.
Firstly, as an added measure of security against anyone who might access my
computer (over the internet), they would simply see my C: drive. It would be
a little more difficult for them to wreak havoc with my OS, Applications, and
Data. Secondly, it is my hope that I can place MS-DOS files on the system
partition (in the event the my OS fails) so that I could boot to the C:>
prompt and begin repairs or retrieve data.

All my system files will be on the C: drive in my configuration.
2) Can I also add MS-DOS system files to the C: drive as well? Will MS-DOS
operate in NTFS? I won't have enough space for a double OS installation, and
would like to be able to boot back to a C:\> prompt should the OS become
corrupt.

It was stated that over time the OS will tend to grow and consume more space
on the hard drive.
3) Is this due to Microsoft updates and service packs? Or is it due to
applications depositing their files in the OS?

4) If, applications do rely on the OS that heavily(both using OS dll's and
adding their own shared files to the OS), then shouldn't applications coexist
in the same partition as the OS?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Ken Blake]

In

Hi Harry and R.C. White:

Thanks for all the useful information. Your thoughts are truly
appreciated.

Do you have any thoughts on which file system - FAT or NTFS -
should
be used?

Since I will partition and format a 40GB hdd for my laptop,
this is
the configuration I envision:
C: drive - 1GB (Sytem files)NTFS
D: drive - 14GB (OS)NTFS
E: drive - 12.5 (Apps/Utilities)NTFS
F: drive - 12.5 (Data)NTFS

I am separating my system partition from the boot partition for
two
reasons. Firstly, as an added security measure should someone
access
my C: drive they won't find my OS and data there - making it a
little
more difficult to wreak havoc on my system. Secondly, I hope
that I
can run MS-DOS from the C: drive, in the event that the OS
fails, I
can at least obtain a C:> prompt to begin repairs or retreive
data.

MS-DOS has no support for NTFS and won't be able to access your
partitions (at least not without special third-party software).

Besides MS-DOS shouldn't be needed. The way to retrieve your data
in the event of a serious problem should be from your backups.
The way to repair the operating system if it fails is with the
use of the Recovery Console.

Also be aware that there is little, if any, value to separating
installed applications from the operating system. People
sometimes do this because they think that if they ever have to
reinstall the operating system cleanly, they can keep their apps.
However this isn't true; if the operating system is reinstalled,
the apps have to be too.

In my view, you are planning too many partitions, especially with
a drive as small as 40GB. With such small partitions, you run the
risk of running out of space on one while still having lots left
on the others. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't consider
having more than two partitions: one for the operating system and
apps, the other for data.

All my system files will be on the C: drive in my
configuration.
1- Can I also add MS-DOS system files to the C: drive as well?

Yes, but they won't do you any good.

Will
MS-DOS operate in NTFS?

No. See above.

I won't have enough space for a double OS
installation, and would like to be able to boot back to a C:\>
prompt
should the OS become corrupt.

In my view, people worry far too much about the operating system
becoming corrupt. With a modicum of care, this almost never
happens. If it does, you can always boot to a DOS diskette (but
remember that no matter how you boot to DOS, you can't access
your NTFS partitions). And, as I said above, the Recovery Comsole
is provided for this purpose.

I've heard that over time the OS will tend to grow and consume
more
space on the hard drive.
2- Is this due to Microsoft updates and service packs? Or is it
due to
applications depositing their files in the OS?

Both.


3-If, applications do rely on the OS that heavily (both using
OS
dll's and adding their own shared files to the OS), then
shouldn't
applications coexist in the same partition as the OS?

Yes, as I said above.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Enrique.

I mostly agree with Ken's latest comments. I'd just like to add a couple of
thoughts.

Do you have any thoughts on which file system - FAT or NTFS - should be
used?

NTFS all the way - except MAYBE for the System Partition. IF you choose to
use FAT here, you can install MS-DOS. As Ken says, there's little reason
for that these days. I set my system up that way, but I did that about 7
years ago for reasons that probably are not valid anymore. It was my first
venture into NT-type Windows and I wanted a fallback position. WinNT4 could
not read FAT32; neither could Win95 until OSR2. I still used the DOS
versions of Norton Utilities, especially DiskEdit, because HDDs and file
systems had many more problems then than now. If I were starting over
today, I MIGHT still use FAT on the small System Partition, but maybe not.

But MS-DOS can't read, write, boot from or even SEE an NTFS partition, so if
you plan to install MS-DOS or Win9x/ME anywhere on your computer, then C:
MUST be formatted FAT. But that's the only reason to use FAT at all.

I do still like the idea of having the small System Partition separate from
the Boot Volume(s), especially since I multi-boot several Windows versions.
I can delete or reformat one boot volume without affecting others. And I
like to keep apps and data out of the system and boot volumes, for similar
reasons. Keeping data separate from apps is not really important, but if I
had a large database, I probably would try to isolate that. Since I have
more disk capacity than I need at the moment (3 HDDs totaling 160 GB), I
like to keep a large chunk of space in an extended partition, but
unallocated; this way, I can create a new logical drive and format it if I
want to try a new Windows version, like Longhorn. Also, it came in handy
when a volume got damaged and had to be rescued; I created a new volume to
hold the recovered files while I reformatted the original volume. But that
probably is not feasible with 40 GB.

C: drive - 1GB (Sytem files)NTFS
D: drive - 14GB (OS)NTFS
E: drive - 12.5 (Apps/Utilities)NTFS
F: drive - 12.5 (Data)NTFS

I probably would reduce D: to about 8 GB (the size I have now), leaving more
room for apps and data. But I don't know what kind of apps and what
quantity of data you have. Perhaps 1 GB and 9 GB would be good for C: and
D:, leaving 30 GB for apps and data. Only you should make the final
decision, of course, based on what you know about your situation and plans.

RC

 

[Alex Nichol]

I wish to format a new harddrive. I will probably format and partition it
through Setup during the Win XP installation. I have several questions that
I hope someone could help me with:

1) Is partitionning and formatting a blank HDD through Win XP setup as
effective as partitionning and formatting a drive using FDisk.exe and
FORMAT.exe commands?

Much better. Do *not* attempt to use those, create a suitable size
partition for C: as part of the Setup, then make others later from XP
Disk management

2) I want to seperate my system partition (C:\) from my boot partion ( D:\ -
where I will install Win XP). Will I need to setup the C: drive as the
Primary and Active partition before installing Win XP to D: ? Will Win XP
setup automatically place the system files on the C: drive when I install the
OS to D: drive?

I have not seen this done outside setting up a dual boot (where it
happens automatically). And can't really see any reason to want to. If
in Setup (hit ESC when it asks where) you make two partitions (both
Primary) and then select the second as the one in which to install
Windows it *might* do it; but I think much more likely it will put the
lot in the selected partition as C: