Fed Up With Vista Yet? Come Join Us In The Friendly Linux Community.

[Leythos]

So let me get this straight. After 10 years of development, Linux is still
not ready for prime time business clients? This is one of the many images
Linux portrays and it's why business RUN AWAY from them. The Open Source
community can't be taken seriously because of actions like this. They
simply can't get the job done.

If you where to snap your fingers and have Linux BUSINESS installed on over
100,000,000+ machines world wide.....WHO would support them? What "company"
is going to support that for "free"? No one! You would be paying $200 a
pop for Linux installs so you would have proper support for when a
PRODUCTION environment goes down.

When Linux gets closer to prime time, expect to start paying more for
it.

I assume that you're agreeing with me.

So Vista has nothing new to offer until business start using it? Then
what? It's will magically sprout new features?

No, when business finally has services/apps that are only capable of
working with Vista, then businesses will switch, at this time there is
nothing that demands Vista that won't run on on XP also.

I can believe that you have taken a serious look at Vista and it's
features. However I also seriously believe that you either didn't know
what you where looking at or you lack the ability and vision to
integrate them.

And I'm sure that you are just a MS Zealot that can't see the trees for
the wilderness before you.

But that's ok. That's what system integrators are for.
The sad part about all this, as one example, is that people own
licenses to use SharePoint. Then they outsource companies to come in
and give them XXXX features. Only to be told, um...look buddy...you
already have this functionality, all you have to do is start using it. I
strongly believe you are one of these people that don't know what's
under your nose and I base that on the fact that you make such comments
as:

You would be wrong, as I have looked at the features and none of them seem
to be show stoppers, none of them seem to have any benefit to a properly
designed network solution for customers, until they start making apps that
require vista.

I have 5 employees currently using Vista in production. Yes, they
moaned. Yes, they groaned. After they used Vista for two months I put
them back on XP. Something (very expected) happened, they demanded
their Vista machines back. Tasks where easier to perform. Things where
easier to find. Their total experience was enhanced by being more
fluid, responsive, easier to use, a generally more comfortable
experience. To me, the most important enhancement to Vista over XP is
the productivity it squeezes out.

And I've looked at vista for weeks, and nothing I see on it makes me want
to keep using it, nor for my team, so, while I can see that people like
the screen savers, like the different backgrounds, like the "pretty"
stuff, it's only "easier to find" if they didn't know what they were doing
or if you didn't properly setup your resources to start with.

I don't know about you, but those are things I want for my "fellow"
employees. You speak of ROI in another post. There's a grey area
called productivity that is hard to factor in. However, by being able
to prove that work on an employees desktop clears off quicker with
Vista, that's what higher management want to see. Even if the cost is
higher then one might expect since you're also moving forward with
technology. However, in our case ROI is 100% justified.

I don't believe you for one second, that work clears off their "desktop"
faster, and I'm assuming you mean business work - that's complete BS. If
you've got a business, then the apps are still using the same interface
they did before vista, still connecting to the same servers, the same
shares, the same printers, etc...

Vista IS NOT going to change how fast they get work done until
applications that can take advantage of Vista only performance features
are being used.

This is of course above and beyond the NEW features of Vista that you
can't seem to find.

Want one?

Try searching for a document on your network of TENS OF THOUSANDS of
files in THOUSANDS of folders and actually find it in three keystrokes
and find it INSTANTLY....do that with XP! If, for some reason there's a
third party solution I missed, then add the terms natively, included and
zero configuration into the mix.

Strange, I open Explorer, click search, enter the file name or the text I
want it to search for in files, click Search and it's off, showing all of
them....

If you give desktop search the network resource I mentioned it instantly
becomes a serious problem so don't even go there.

LOL, so you're saying that you don't properly setup resources and that you
don't understand that's your problem.

On a side note, I showed this feature to a few of our Mac heads and they
about sh!t their pants. They have an archive of hundreds of thousands
of graphic files and they can only dream for such a feature.

LOL - it's already in XP, and it works fine.

 

[Justin]

it's
come a long way from where it's been for a decade, but, it still has a few
user friendly issues.

So let me get this straight. After 10 years of development, Linux is still
not ready for prime time business clients? This is one of the many images
Linux portrays and it's why business RUN AWAY from them. The Open Source
community can't be taken seriously because of actions like this. They
simply can't get the job done.

If you where to snap your fingers and have Linux BUSINESS installed on over
100,000,000+ machines world wide.....WHO would support them? What "company"
is going to support that for "free"? No one! You would be paying $200 a
pop for Linux installs so you would have proper support for when a
PRODUCTION environment goes down.

When Linux gets closer to prime time, expect to start paying more for it.

Vista doesn't offer anything that a properly configured XP solution
doesn't already have working on less resources and stable, but that will
change as businesses make the plunge.

So Vista has nothing new to offer until business start using it? Then what?
It's will magically sprout new features?

I can believe that you have taken a serious look at Vista and it's features.
However I also seriously believe that you either didn't know what you where
looking at or you lack the ability and vision to integrate them. But that's
ok. That's what system integrators are for. The sad part about all this,
as one example, is that people own licenses to use SharePoint. Then they
outsource companies to come in and give them XXXX features. Only to be
told, um...look buddy...you already have this functionality, all you have to
do is start using it. I strongly believe you are one of these people that
don't know what's under your nose and I base that on the fact that you make
such comments as:

"Vista doesn't offer anything that a properly configured XP solution
doesn't already have..."

I have 5 employees currently using Vista in production. Yes, they moaned.
Yes, they groaned. After they used Vista for two months I put them back on
XP. Something (very expected) happened, they demanded their Vista machines
back. Tasks where easier to perform. Things where easier to find. Their
total experience was enhanced by being more fluid, responsive, easier to
use, a generally more comfortable experience. To me, the most important
enhancement to Vista over XP is the productivity it squeezes out.

I don't know about you, but those are things I want for my "fellow"
employees. You speak of ROI in another post. There's a grey area called
productivity that is hard to factor in. However, by being able to prove
that work on an employees desktop clears off quicker with Vista, that's what
higher management want to see. Even if the cost is higher then one might
expect since you're also moving forward with technology. However, in our
case ROI is 100% justified.

This is of course above and beyond the NEW features of Vista that you can't
seem to find.

Want one?

Try searching for a document on your network of TENS OF THOUSANDS of files
in THOUSANDS of folders and actually find it in three keystrokes and find it
INSTANTLY....do that with XP! If, for some reason there's a third party
solution I missed, then add the terms natively, included and zero
configuration into the mix.

If you give desktop search the network resource I mentioned it instantly
becomes a serious problem so don't even go there.

On a side note, I showed this feature to a few of our Mac heads and they
about crapped their pants. They have an archive of hundreds of thousands of
graphic files and they can only dream for such a feature.

 

[Conor]

Which Ubuntu did you try, 6.06 or 6.10?

If the latter, you didn't really try Ubuntu.

Oh do **** off. Ubuntu is Ubuntu. 6.x is 5.x with updates and a few
tweaks of defaults.

 

[Conor]

Long Term Support vs. In Development.

ooh...watch "Alias" try and wriggle his way out.

 

[Leythos]

That's great! A real response to my post (although I can't see my own post
WTH!?!?) ! Something leythos and adam could never do.

You're trolling again Zealot.

I've provided real responses to your questions directed to me, you just
don't seem to want to hear from anyone that doesn't have your mantra.

 

[Justin]

That's great...*IF* you need it. Personally, I search for a file once
every
2 years or so.

That's great! A real response to my post (although I can't see my own post
WTH!?!?) ! Something leythos and adam could never do.

I have no doubt what-so-ever, there will be MANY if not hundreds of
thousands of people that have absolutely no need for the new features.

However stating you have no need for a feature and pretending that feature
doesn't exist are two different things (something "they" do).

There are a massive amount of companies that are still running Win2000
because they see no value or can't afford to upgrade to XP. That's
perfectly acceptable. But for some to state that WinXP is nothing more then
Win2000 with a new theme is ignorance that will be "cleared up".

Although there are many more features then just searching

 

[Justin]

I've provided real responses to your questions directed to me, you just
don't seem to want to hear from anyone that doesn't have your mantra.

No you haven't. All you ever spout is that you're a more advanced user then
myself and that Vista has no place in the work place.

I just got done replying to your BS post about how NO BUSINESS can gain ROI
with Vista.

You're ignorant at best.

A summary of leythos:
There are NO new features in Vista, UNTIL business make the plunge.
No business needs Vista.
No business can ROI Vista.
Bottom posting is better.
Vista is much slower then XP.
I use real hardware and you don't.
I use real applications and you don't.

Please excuse me if I mixed a little of adam in there with you. It's hard
to distinguish between you two drama queens.

The only thing "real" about your responses is the made up world you have in
your head about how you THINK ALL OTHER businesses operate.

You know you and you know your business and you are FAR from the average.
That seems to be about all you know. This is, of course, my opinion.

I have implemented many business solutions for many different types of
businesses. While I will NEVER go as far as to claim I know everything, I
can at least claim that my experience is very diverse and at least I have a
"clue" about what businesses may or may not need.

Your responses are very streamlined, inaccuracy, make many ASSumptions and
lead people inconclusive theories. Things that many of us try to clear up.

While you claim there is absolutely NO reason to install vista. I claim
there are many reasons for a business to install vista as well as reasons
for others not to.

While I claim that the average problem with Vista is poor driver support,
you turn that into my claiming there is absolutely nothing wrong with Vista.
You're absurd! A joke!

 

[Adam Albright]

So let me get this straight. After 10 years of development, Linux is still
not ready for prime time business clients? This is one of the many images
Linux portrays and it's why business RUN AWAY from them. The Open Source
community can't be taken seriously because of actions like this. They
simply can't get the job done.

Justin, something you should get straight. Windows has been on the
market in one form or another for over 20 years and it still doesn't
get a lot of things right. If you want to call a group of developers
that continue to develop a open source (meaning free) alternative, not
serious, what possible excuse can you make up for Microsoft, a multi
national, multi billion dollar corporation and the world's largest
software developer who demands hundreds of dollars for a single copy
of their operating system and still hasn't got all the bugs out of
their product?

 

[Justin]

Justin, something you should get straight. Windows has been on the
market in one form or another for over 20 years and it still doesn't
get a lot of things right.

Yeah? What your point? There are always issues. Windows, OSX and Linux
alike. If Linux where bulletrpoof then you'd have a point. Otherwise I'm
not seeing it. So when Linux is 20 years old and still not prime time or
"good enough" for the average business desktop then what?

If you want to call a group of developers
that continue to develop a open source (meaning free) alternative, not
serious, what possible excuse can you make up for Microsoft.

I'm not making any excuses. I'm not claiming MS is bulletproof. YOU are
the one that needs to come up with an excuse since YOU are the one making
Linux claims that you can't back up.

Windows
Novell
OS/2

There's a winner for a reason.

, a multi
national, multi billion dollar corporation and the world's largest
software developer who demands hundreds of dollars for a single copy
of their operating system and still hasn't got all the bugs out of
their product?

Neither has anyone else. Again, WTF is your point? All OS's have bugs.

 

[Leythos]

No you haven't. All you ever spout is that you're a more advanced user then
myself and that Vista has no place in the work place.

And again you troll. I never said it has no place in business and I'm now
sure I'm a more advanced user than you, as you were the first one to say I
didn't know as much as you. I can see you're just another kid thinking he
knows everything.

I just got done replying to your BS post about how NO BUSINESS can gain ROI
with Vista.

You're ignorant at best.

Said from someone that thinks vista is the greated OS and has ROI based on
nothing.

A summary of leythos:
There are NO new features in Vista, UNTIL business make the plunge.

No, there are no new features that will make a difference to business as
there are no applications to take advantage of Vista Business edition that
are not already supported on XP currently.

No business needs Vista.

True, no business NEEDS vista at this time, XP supports all business
applications that are available to run on Vista, and many that wont run on
vista currently.

No business can ROI Vista.

Based on real world businesses, I can't see how any business can claim ROI
by switching from XP to Vista - there just isn't anything that runs on
vista that won't run on XP currently.

Bottom posting is better.

In usenet, it's always been better, when followed by proper snipping.

Vista is much slower then XP.

In ever application I've tested, Office 2003, Office 2007, Several Games,
Web Browsing, IIS.... Oh, and the base machine, same one that XP was
installed on, is slower with the same amount of RAM that XP was fast with.

I use real hardware and you don't.

You claim that I don't have quality drivers and hardware, but MS UGA says
my systems are fine and meet all the requirements. My system, the ones
I've tested with are all between 0 and 2 years old and were top of the
line at the time of the purchase. Like a true Zealot you ignore that most
people will be in this group of hardware.

I use real applications and you don't.

No, you said your people get work done faster under Vista, which about
anyone that actually has used XP and Vista will tell you that on the same
hardware you're full of BS.

Please excuse me if I mixed a little of adam in there with you. It's hard
to distinguish between you two drama queens.

Yea, Pot - Kettle - Black.

The only thing "real" about your responses is the made up world you have in
your head about how you THINK ALL OTHER businesses operate.

Strange, 63 clients, over 2500 users, 8 states, one off-shore center....

You know you and you know your business and you are FAR from the average.
That seems to be about all you know. This is, of course, my opinion.

I have implemented many business solutions for many different types of
businesses. While I will NEVER go as far as to claim I know everything, I
can at least claim that my experience is very diverse and at least I have a
"clue" about what businesses may or may not need.

Sorry, you're wrong, you HAVE claimed you know all about Vista and that
I'm 100% wrong, but, my information is completely factual.

Your responses are very streamlined, inaccuracy, make many ASSumptions and
lead people inconclusive theories. Things that many of us try to clear up.

The only thing you've made clear is that everyone that doesn't have a
great impression of vista is using bad hardware or doesn't know anything -
and that you are a zealot.

While you claim there is absolutely NO reason to install vista. I claim
there are many reasons for a business to install vista as well as reasons
for others not to.

Name one common business reason to install Vista that is completely
unsupported on XP.

While I claim that the average problem with Vista is poor driver support,
you turn that into my claiming there is absolutely nothing wrong with Vista.
You're absurd! A joke!

LOL - come back when you graduate from high-school.

 

[Justin]

And again you troll. I never said it has no place in business and

So you take it back? That's good to hear. It made you sound like a fool.

I'm now
sure I'm a more advanced user than you,

More ego boosting BS. You love this stuff!

as you were the first one to say I
didn't know as much as you.

You are incorrect. You're first argument against me was that I never push
Vista hard enough. I use inferior software...blah blah blah

I can see you're just another kid thinking he
knows everything.

That's your opinion and you're a fool for it.

Said from someone that thinks vista is the greated OS and has ROI based on
nothing.

I gave you a very specific example. In which you never replied. Because
you CAN'T. Plus, for the TENTH+ time, I do not think Vista is a "great" OS.
You have proven yourself time and time again to LIE about such things. You
can now add LIAR to you long list of negative attributes.

No, there are no new features that will make a difference to business as
there are no applications to take advantage of Vista Business edition that
are not already supported on XP currently.

Bull, again, I already gave you an example of one. Once again you are blind
to reality.

True, no business NEEDS vista at this time, XP supports all business
applications that are available to run on Vista, and many that wont run on
vista currently.

This, right here, proves HAND DOWN that you are immensely inexperienced
(funny description). If Vista = increased productivity then according to
you no business NEEDS increased productivity.

Again, you fail!

Based on real world businesses, I can't see how any business can claim ROI
by switching from XP to Vista - there just isn't anything that runs on
vista that won't run on XP currently.

You continue to fail.

In usenet, it's always been better, when followed by proper snipping.
Opinion.


In ever application I've tested, Office 2003, Office 2007, Several Games,
Web Browsing, IIS.... Oh, and the base machine, same one that XP was
installed on, is slower with the same amount of RAM that XP was fast with.

In every application YOU tested. KEYWORD IS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU YOU YOU
YOU YOU. You know NOTHING of real world functionality. All you know is
YOU...and YOU are an idiot that performs bogus tests. Then you claim that
your tests apply to EVERYONE?

How does that explain the fact that I have machines that run Office 2003,
2007, GAMES and Web Browsing FASTER ON VISTA????

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wake the F up you idiot! YOU are not the only machine in the world.

You claim that I don't have quality drivers and hardware, but MS UGA says
my systems are fine

Did you mean to type VUA? Vista Upgrade Advisor? That has already been
hashed out. You have already been told MANY times by myself and many others
that the VUA is a TOOL not to be used ALONE.

Damn! You're dense!

No, you said your people get work done faster under Vista, which about
anyone that actually has used XP and Vista will tell you that on the same
hardware you're full of BS.

You are certainly entitled to you opinion. But if you are going to call
anyone that claims to run vista fine and faster then XP, a liar, then get
ready for a whole lot of name calling. I'm not the only person in the world
reporting the same thing.

Yea, Pot - Kettle - Black.

I don't make claims about the entire world that I can't back up. You can't
back up anything you say. The only data you have is what you've done in
house.

Strange, 63 clients, over 2500 users, 8 states, one off-shore center....

Oh really? ...and you can't come up with any business proposal to enhance
any of them with Vista? How do you make money? You can't see what's right
in front of your face. I can't believe you are serious about this. Of the
many new features of Vista you can't enhance of their processes? Sorry, but
myself and many others would look to you as a failure.

Sorry, you're wrong, you HAVE claimed you know all about Vista and that
I'm 100% wrong, but, my information is completely factual.

How is your information any more factual then mine? Grow up fool. Also, I
NEVER claimed to know "ALL ABOUT VISTA". Please drop the drama queen act.
It's getting old. Only YOU makes these bold claims about everyone else and
it's very childish.

The only thing you've made clear is that everyone that doesn't have a
great impression of vista is using bad hardware or doesn't know anything -
and that you are a zealot.

This is where you continue to be a damn fool. I have made it very clear in
numerous posts that there are many reasons NOT to use Vista. You ignore all
of those posts because ONLY then can you make these ridiculous comments.

Name one common business reason to install Vista that is completely
unsupported on XP.

I ALREADY DID YOU BLIND IDIOT! How many do you want?

Do you seriously want to be treated like a child? I can if you like. I
also know for a fact you read that post of mine because you commented on it
above.

LOL - come back when you graduate from high-school.

HA! Thanks for proving I'm right. I understand you can't argue facts.
This is proof of that.

FACT: justin wrote: "absolutly, the average problem with Vista is poor
driver support"
FACT justin wrote: "there are also problems with vista that is up to
microsoft to fix"
FACT: leythos wrote: "while you claim there is nothing wrong with Vista"

D-R-A-M-A Q-U-E-E-N!!!!!!!!!!

YOU FAIL!

 

[Leythos]

In every application YOU tested. KEYWORD IS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU YOU YOU
YOU YOU. You know NOTHING of real world functionality. All you know is
YOU...and YOU are an idiot that performs bogus tests. Then you claim that
your tests apply to EVERYONE?

So, according to your logic, your statements are meaningless as we only
have you stating what YOU HAVE SEEN and YOU KNOW NOTHING OF REAL WORLD...

You seem to have one set of rules for what you see and ignore anything
that anyone else sees and if it contradicts what you see you just keep
trolling them.

 

[Adam Albright]

There's a winner for a reason.

Neither has anyone else. Again, WTF is your point? All OS's have bugs.

WTF is my point? You've established yourself as somebody that shoots
from the hip and doesn't really know what he's talking about. It does
seem you're learning how to bottom post. That a boy. <grin>

 

[Justin]

So, according to your logic, your statements are meaningless as we only
have you stating what YOU HAVE SEEN and YOU KNOW NOTHING OF REAL WORLD...

Wow! You just keep reaching lows! I am all about gathering data from
respectable sources. I work with MANY companies. I listen to MANY
different people.

This is how I know you are an idiot for installing Vista on a "faster"
machine, then notice it runs no better then XP on that machine (which is
probably true) THEN making the claim that Vista is NO FASTER then XP.

You based your claims on one stupid, dumb, pointless test. I base my claims
on MANY implementation projects and MANY tests.

So yeah, have you figured it out yet?

You seem to have one set of rules for what you see and ignore anything
that anyone else sees and if it contradicts what you see you just keep
trolling them.

The only reason you say this, is because I refuse to accept your garbage
test. For those that offer up SOLID data that can be reasoned with, they
are more then accepted by everyone here.

Just to sum you up again in case someone missed it:

leythos installed Vista on a machine that was previously running XP. He
noticed Vista didn't run any faster then XP on this machine. Thus, Vista
won't run faster for ANYONE! Because HIS TEST proves it.

Again, leythos, you are a fool that spreads crap.

You claim I wont listen to any one else? HA! That's all I do. So tell us,
how have YOU been listening to people that claim Vista runs FASTER on their
same hardware then XP did? It's been posted all over this NG.

 

[Justin]

I don't bottom post, I top and inline post. Get your terms straight.

I like how you completely dogged my post. I nailed you to the wall and you
had nothing to say about it.

Nice!

Maybe you'd like to try again?

All OS's have bugs. So what the hell does MS charging for an OS have to do
with the fact that all OS's have bugs.

Don't dodge it again!

 

[Leythos]

Wow! You just keep reaching lows! I am all about gathering data from
respectable sources. I work with MANY companies. I listen to MANY
different people.

This is how I know you are an idiot for installing Vista on a "faster"
machine, then notice it runs no better then XP on that machine (which is
probably true) THEN making the claim that Vista is NO FASTER then XP.

You based your claims on one stupid, dumb, pointless test. I base my claims
on MANY implementation projects and MANY tests.

So yeah, have you figured it out yet?


The only reason you say this, is because I refuse to accept your garbage
test. For those that offer up SOLID data that can be reasoned with, they
are more then accepted by everyone here.

Just to sum you up again in case someone missed it:

leythos installed Vista on a machine that was previously running XP. He
noticed Vista didn't run any faster then XP on this machine. Thus, Vista
won't run faster for ANYONE! Because HIS TEST proves it.

Nope, that's clearly not my statement, but you keep trying to say it is.

Again, leythos, you are a fool that spreads crap.

You claim I wont listen to any one else? HA! That's all I do. So tell us,
how have YOU been listening to people that claim Vista runs FASTER on their
same hardware then XP did? It's been posted all over this NG.

Actually, I've not seen many posts stating that vista runs the
applications that they ran on XP any faster on the exact same machine. I
would say that the posts stating it's slower out number the faster posts
about 100:1 so far.

Keep trolling, in looking back at your posts you're always argumentative
and always angry, nothing constructive or helpful.

I'm still waiting on your ROI analysis for the sample business I listed,
but I don't expect you will reply.

 

[Alias]

???? Let me guess, people tell you to grow up often.

Is that a "yes" or a "no"?

Alias

 

[Alias]

If that's all you got, then you have nothing. I installed it and those
are my findings. Other had the exact same findings.

I don't believe you.

Alias

 

[Justin]

Nope, that's clearly not my statement, but you keep trying to say it is.

Oh really? You ready to eat your words liar?

You've not used vista if you believe that.

While almost ever computer we/they have purchased in the last year has
been a 1GB, P4/3.2ghz hyper threaded or Dual Core, machine, there is no
reason to move to Vista at this time.

Vista over XP provides more memory use than XP, more CPU use than XP,
and that all before you do anything. Vista on the same hardware (and I'm
talking 1GB or more RAM, P4 3.2ghz CPU, 512MB Video card, is just slow
when sitting side by side with XP Prof on the EXACT SAME HARDWARE.

It's not complaining, it's a fact.

I like how you wrap it up with "IT'S A FACT". To sum this post up:

Vista is slower then XP on "MY" machine thus it's a FACT that Vista is
slower then XP.

It's BS comments like these that will make anyone challenge you. You are
full of it! You have no FACTS other then your own IN-HOUSE testing.

Actually, I've not seen many posts stating that vista runs the
applications that they ran on XP any faster on the exact same machine. I
would say that the posts stating it's slower out number the faster posts
about 100:1 so far.

Of course! Who said they didn't? This is a NG for PROBLEMS!!!!!!! Think
think think, before you speak. However, it's still been said many times
regardless of you belief.

Keep trolling, in looking back at your posts you're always argumentative
and always angry, nothing constructive or helpful.

Only towards you and adam. This biggest knuckleheads on this NG at this
time.

I have offered you more then a few "damn good" reasons and explanations. So
once you are a complete lair.

I'm still waiting on your ROI analysis for the sample business I listed,
but I don't expect you will reply.

Oh, I'm sorry, am I not responding fast enough for you? I already answered
your joke of a post. You know nothing of ROI.

 

[Justin]

I like how you completely dogged the entire post.

Whenever you get slammed you just move on. How sad.

Maybe you'd like to try again?

Someone else answered the question you claimed had a false assumption. How
is it they could (with no problem at all) and you couldn't?

We already know the answer but it would be nice to hear it from you.