Can't use Fax - DSL Modem/Digital Phone/ Wireless Internet Connect


G

Guest

I need help setting up the Microsoft Fax. My connection configuration at
present is as follows: COMPUTER --- NETGEAR WIRELESS ROUTER ---- DSL MODEM
--- DIGITAL PHONE LINE HAS FAX FILTER INSTALLED.

Any Suggestions? When I attempt to fax I receive the error message - NO
DIALTONE DETECTED. Cable/DSL provider is of no help.

Thanks,

Jan
 
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L

Lem

Blondie53185 said:
I need help setting up the Microsoft Fax. My connection configuration at
present is as follows: COMPUTER --- NETGEAR WIRELESS ROUTER ---- DSL MODEM
--- DIGITAL PHONE LINE HAS FAX FILTER INSTALLED.

Any Suggestions? When I attempt to fax I receive the error message - NO
DIALTONE DETECTED. Cable/DSL provider is of no help.

Thanks,

Jan

If you really have a "digital phone line" (such as in an office PBX),
then you can't fax using an analog modem -- which is how Windows Fax
works -- unless you get a digital-analog phone adapter (this is NOT the
same as the filters used to separate DSL signals from telephone service
- which is what I assume you mean by "fax filter").

http://telecom.hellodirect.com/docs/Tutorials/AnalogVsDigital.1.051501.asp

"How do you tell if the phone line is analog or digital? Look at the
back of the telephone connected to it. If you see "complies with part
68, FCC Rules" and a Ringer Equivalence Number (REN), then the phone and
the line are analog. Also, look at the phone's dialpad. Are there
multiple function keys? Do you need to dial "9" for an outside line?
These are indicators that the phone and the line are digital."
 
G

Guest

Lem said:
If you really have a "digital phone line" (such as in an office PBX),
then you can't fax using an analog modem -- which is how Windows Fax
works -- unless you get a digital-analog phone adapter (this is NOT the
same as the filters used to separate DSL signals from telephone service
- which is what I assume you mean by "fax filter").

http://telecom.hellodirect.com/docs/Tutorials/AnalogVsDigital.1.051501.asp

"How do you tell if the phone line is analog or digital? Look at the
back of the telephone connected to it. If you see "complies with part
68, FCC Rules" and a Ringer Equivalence Number (REN), then the phone and
the line are analog. Also, look at the phone's dialpad. Are there
multiple function keys? Do you need to dial "9" for an outside line?
These are indicators that the phone and the line are digital."

--
Lem MS MVP -- Networking

To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
Thanks for the answer Lem. Now I am confused. I pay Time Warner Cable for
Digital Cable, Digital Phone and DSL Internet Service. When they installed
the "Digital Phone", I did not have to go out and buy a new phone. I use the
same one I used when I was with AT&T. All of these products come into my
house through one line connected to a modem and branch off of there. There
is a phone cable that connects to a telephone outlet to provide service to
the house from the modem. I assume that since Time/Warner provided me with a
"Fax Filter" their service isn't truly Digital. Does this help me? Can you
provide anymore information?

Thanks,

Blondie
 
L

Lem

Blondie53185 said:
Thanks for the answer Lem. Now I am confused. I pay Time Warner Cable for
Digital Cable, Digital Phone and DSL Internet Service. When they installed
the "Digital Phone", I did not have to go out and buy a new phone. I use the
same one I used when I was with AT&T. All of these products come into my
house through one line connected to a modem and branch off of there. There
is a phone cable that connects to a telephone outlet to provide service to
the house from the modem. I assume that since Time/Warner provided me with a
"Fax Filter" their service isn't truly Digital. Does this help me? Can you
provide anymore information?

Thanks,

Blondie

I believe you have cable internet service, not DSL.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/

Many cable companies have launched Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP)
phone service, or digital phone service. Digital phone service takes
analog audio signals, the kind you hear when you talk on the phone, and
turns them into digital data that can be transmitted over cable’s fiber
optic network. Part of the "box" provided by your ISP (Time Warner)
provides a connection for your regular old analog phone.

In the early days of VoIP, faxing generally was not well supported:
http://www.soft-switch.org/foip.html

This may have changed somewhat:
http://michigantelephone.mi.org/distribute.html

However, if you look at the forums at BroadBand Reports, the consensus
still seems to be that Fax over IP is "iffy." Here's a random thread on
the topic from last June: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16552023

OTOH, according to Time Warner
http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/FAQ/TWCFaqs.ashx?faqID=1205&MarketID=0&CatID=639

Q: Will my fax machine work with Digital Phone service?

A: Yes, fax machines work with Digital Phone service. If you have any
problems sending or receiveng faxes using Digital Phone, please contact
your local Time Warner Cable customer service office.

You said that TW was of no help. What did they say? I assume that when
you pick up your regular phone you hear a dial tone. Try connecting
your telephone to the "fax filter." Do you hear a dial tone? If not,
the fax filter may be defective. Try connecting the fax filter to the
phone jack that your phone is usually connected to; now do you hear a
dial tone through the fax filter?

If you can't hear a dial tone when you connect a telephone to the fax
filter, the fax modem in your computer won't hear it either, and won't
work.
 
W

Wilfried Hennings

Blondie53185 said:
Thanks for the answer Lem. Now I am confused. I pay Time Warner Cable for
Digital Cable, Digital Phone and DSL Internet Service. When they installed
the "Digital Phone", I did not have to go out and buy a new phone. I use the
same one I used when I was with AT&T. All of these products come into my
house through one line connected to a modem and branch off of there. There
is a phone cable that connects to a telephone outlet to provide service to
the house from the modem. I assume that since Time/Warner provided me with a
"Fax Filter" their service isn't truly Digital. Does this help me? Can you
provide anymore information?

As far as I know, Windows Fax requires an ANALOGUE modem connected to an
ANALOGUE telephone line.
Probably your PC does have an analogue modem installed.
What is probably missing is the cable from the PC's modem to the
analogue telephone outlet of the router. You may or may not need to put
an additional switch there to connect both the "phone service to the
house" and the PC's modem.

Alternatively, TW may provide a Unified Messaging Service via which you
can send and receive faxes. E.g. you can send an e-mail to this service
which will then convert the content of the e-mail into a fax and send
this.

--
email me: change "nospam" to "w.hennings"
Wilfried Hennings c./o.
Forschungszentrum (Research Center) Juelich GmbH, MUT
<http://www.fz-juelich.de/mut/mut_home>
All opinions mentioned are strictly my own, not my employer's.
 
G

Guest

Lem said:
I believe you have cable internet service, not DSL.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/

Many cable companies have launched Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP)
phone service, or digital phone service. Digital phone service takes
analog audio signals, the kind you hear when you talk on the phone, and
turns them into digital data that can be transmitted over cable’s fiber
optic network. Part of the "box" provided by your ISP (Time Warner)
provides a connection for your regular old analog phone.

In the early days of VoIP, faxing generally was not well supported:
http://www.soft-switch.org/foip.html

This may have changed somewhat:
http://michigantelephone.mi.org/distribute.html

However, if you look at the forums at BroadBand Reports, the consensus
still seems to be that Fax over IP is "iffy." Here's a random thread on
the topic from last June: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16552023

OTOH, according to Time Warner
http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/FAQ/TWCFaqs.ashx?faqID=1205&MarketID=0&CatID=639

Q: Will my fax machine work with Digital Phone service?

A: Yes, fax machines work with Digital Phone service. If you have any
problems sending or receiveng faxes using Digital Phone, please contact
your local Time Warner Cable customer service office.

You said that TW was of no help. What did they say? I assume that when
you pick up your regular phone you hear a dial tone. Try connecting
your telephone to the "fax filter." Do you hear a dial tone? If not,
the fax filter may be defective. Try connecting the fax filter to the
phone jack that your phone is usually connected to; now do you hear a
dial tone through the fax filter?

If you can't hear a dial tone when you connect a telephone to the fax
filter, the fax modem in your computer won't hear it either, and won't
work.

--
Lem MS MVP -- Networking

To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

Thanks for pointing out the obvious Lem. I was wondering why I haven't
received any phone calls since installing the fax filter. I plugged it into
a telephone and viola! no dialtone. I will check out TW website to see if
anything there makes any sense. I could not find any fax information on
their site when I searched previously. I have a feeling that my best bet
will be to subscribe to an internet fax service. Any suggestions?
 
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G

Guest

Wilfried Hennings said:
As far as I know, Windows Fax requires an ANALOGUE modem connected to an
ANALOGUE telephone line.
Probably your PC does have an analogue modem installed.
What is probably missing is the cable from the PC's modem to the
analogue telephone outlet of the router. You may or may not need to put
an additional switch there to connect both the "phone service to the
house" and the PC's modem.

Alternatively, TW may provide a Unified Messaging Service via which you
can send and receive faxes. E.g. you can send an e-mail to this service
which will then convert the content of the e-mail into a fax and send
this.

--
email me: change "nospam" to "w.hennings"
Wilfried Hennings c./o.
Forschungszentrum (Research Center) Juelich GmbH, MUT
<http://www.fz-juelich.de/mut/mut_home>
All opinions mentioned are strictly my own, not my employer's.

Thanks for the help Wilfried. Lem suggested I check if the fax filter is
bad and he is correct; it does not work when plugged directly into a
telephone. I think the easiest (and cheapest) thing to do is subscribe to an
internet fax service as a don't have a fax machine anyway. (I have a
printer/scanner). Any suggestions?
 
L

Lem

Blondie53185 said:
Thanks for pointing out the obvious Lem. I was wondering why I haven't
received any phone calls since installing the fax filter. I plugged it into
a telephone and viola! no dialtone. I will check out TW website to see if
anything there makes any sense. I could not find any fax information on
their site when I searched previously. I have a feeling that my best bet
will be to subscribe to an internet fax service. Any suggestions?

Blondie,

I've never used an on-line fax service, so I have no personal
recommendation. eFax is the name that seems to come up the most
frequently. But you can check out several:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fax+service
http://www.a2.com/telecom/freefax.html#email-web (scroll down to tpc.int
for comments re a free fax service)

I don't know what TW gave you as a "fax filter." Or, for that matter,
where or how you are connecting it. You said that you hadn't received
any phone calls since you had the fax filter put in. Were you able to
make any calls? Is this perhaps a "splitter" rather than a filter?
That is, does it have one connector that goes towards the cable modem
and two connectors on the other side, one for your old telephone and the
other for the fax? Something like
http://img.shopping.com/cctool/PrdImg/images/pr/177X150/00/01/3a/df/73/20635507.JPG

Just to double check, if you have a normal telephone, that used to
connect to a normal, non-digital telephone line, and you now have that
telephone connected to your digital telephone line, and it gets a dial
tone, then temporarily connect the fax modem in your computer in place
of the telephone (i.e., to the same jack that the telephone is usually
connected to) without using the fax filter. Now try to send a fax.

One last thing. There is a problem sharing ANY telephone line --
digital or non-digital -- between your telephone and a computer using
Windows XP Fax Service. The problem is that Windows XP Fax Service will
either (a) answer ALL incoming calls or (b) answer NO incoming calls.
It cannot distinguish an incoming fax from an incoming voice call.
This drawback itself may be reason enough to switch to an on-line fax
service.
 
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Y

yardbirds

Lem,

Your HelloDirect link is excellent. I now know the difference between
analog and digital.

Yardbirds

Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004
version 2002 service pack 2

Dell Inspiron 16400
Genuine Intel (R) CPU T1300 @1.66GHz
981 MHz , 0.99 GB of RAM

Processer Speed 1.63 Ghz
Memory RAM 1024

Operating System
Windows XP Professional version 5.1.2600

Disk Drive TOSHIBA MK 6032GSX
Modem Conexant HDA D110 MDC V .92 Modem
 

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