Canon won't disclose...

[Frank]

I spoke to Canon and they refused to disclose who manufacturers their
ink, so I refuse to ever use it again. They told me no major inkjet
supplier will disclose who manufacturers their ink for them. So I now
use only Hobbicolor in my Canons. No clogs and no fading with perfect
color match.
As far as I'm concerned, it could be the exact same ink that Canon puts
their label on.
Oh yeah, and it cost about 1/4 the price of Canon OEM.
Frank

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I spoke to Canon and they refused to disclose who manufacturers their ink,
so I refuse to ever use it again. They told me no major inkjet supplier
will disclose who manufacturers their ink for them.

Most manufacturers of any product will not disclose suppliers. I don't tell
our customers who supplies our material either. They can specify, but then
they will pay more for that privilege. The tires on your car may say
Goodyear or Firestone, but you don't know where the materials came from. Or
where the Green Giant peas were grown.

 

[Zitty]

Most manufacturers of any product will not disclose suppliers. I don't
tell our customers who supplies our material either. They can specify, but
then they will pay more for that privilege. The tires on your car may say
Goodyear or Firestone, but you don't know where the materials came from.
Or where the Green Giant peas were grown.

Just look for the fields with the Jolly Green Giant in them - haven't you
seen the adverts?

 

[TJ]

Most manufacturers of any product will not disclose suppliers. I don't tell
our customers who supplies our material either. They can specify, but then
they will pay more for that privilege. The tires on your car may say
Goodyear or Firestone, but you don't know where the materials came from. Or
where the Green Giant peas were grown.

People will ask me where I grow my sweet corn or tomatoes, and I'll
point in the general direction. I wouldn't mind disclosing where my
seed, fertilizer, tractor fuel, etc. come from, but nobody asks.

TJ

 

[CWatters]

I spoke to Canon and they refused to disclose who manufacturers their
ink, so I refuse to ever use it again. They told me no major inkjet
supplier will disclose who manufacturers their ink for them.

Some countries require importers to state the contents and origin of
chemicals. I haven't looked recently but I do remember seeing some of these
declarations online in the past. Perhaps the source can be identified from
these?

I wouldn't be surprised if they had more than one source because being
"single sourced" isn't good business practice. They may also have licensing
deal in place which prevents the manufacturer sellin ink of the same
composition to other companies.

 

[Davy]

I needed to do some docs. sharpish and got some Xprint ink, 3eB
pigment ran and feathered like hell, so I reverted back to OEM whic
cleared the fault, I doubted if it was pigment

I can't see every cartridge brand 'brewing' their own inks, someon
somewhere must supply them, you can bet that they will try and cu
corners to supply as cheap as possible to us while keeping thei
profits as high as possible

Canon & others would keep it a closely guarded secret otherwis
we'll start buying direct which will stop the huge profits... gues
also they will make it to their specifications, this just doesn'
apply to inks

Dav


Dav

 

[zakezuke]

I needed to do some docs. sharpish and got some Xprint ink, 3eBK
pigment ran and feathered like hell, so I reverted back to OEM which
cleared the fault, I doubted if it was pigment.

I can't see every cartridge brand 'brewing' their own inks, someone
somewhere must supply them, you can bet that they will try and cut
corners to supply as cheap as possible to us while keeping their
profits as high as possible.

Pelikan in Switzerland makes their own inks, as does Image Specalists
and (Sensient) Formulabs, OCP in Germany and many others. Printrite I
belive also makes their own inks out of Hong Kong. That's all I can
remember off the top of my head. There are a few others. An average
joe can often spot who uses the same ink with a simple swab test and a
flatbed scanner.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=12198835

 

[Taliesyn]

I needed to do some docs. sharpish and got some Xprint ink, 3eBK
pigment ran and feathered like hell, so I reverted back to OEM which
cleared the fault, I doubted if it was pigment.

I can't see every cartridge brand 'brewing' their own inks, someone
somewhere must supply them, you can bet that they will try and cut
corners to supply as cheap as possible to us while keeping their
profits as high as possible.

That is precisely what I was told by a dealer - that they had to drop
pigmented black cartridges and use the much cheaper dye black (easier to
make) in order to compete with other dealers and office supply stores.
So not only are they competing with OEM ink but with other aftermarket
ink sellers as well. The cheaper dye inks are, however, fine for the
majority of people who only run off simple text, emails, etc. But those
who demand the best inks will seek out suppliers that offer a choice of
formulas (pigment/dye). Fussy people, like me. Shop around, there's
good ink in them there hills!

-Taliesyn

 

[Taliesyn]

Pelikan in Switzerland makes their own inks, as does Image Specalists
and (Sensient) Formulabs, OCP in Germany and many others. Printrite I
belive also makes their own inks out of Hong Kong. That's all I can
remember off the top of my head. There are a few others. An average
joe can often spot who uses the same ink with a simple swab test and a
flatbed scanner.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=12198835

Same with pigment vs dye black (BCI-3e).

Dye black is shiny, pigment is dull (using a swab test)

A dye black printout will run terribly when immersed in water.
Pigment black will show no real change (though the paper will be wet!).

My favorite test requires none of the above. Dye black shows up as
purplish red when held up to a strong light. That's all I do when I
buy an unknown cartridge - hold it up to a light. Pigmented black is
almost light proof and shows as black (not purplish red).

Anyone who refills notices that when they clean the syringes, the dye
black washes out purplish red.

-Taliesyn

 

[Davy]

Printrite I belive also makes their own inks out of Hong Kong.
Sorry but Printrite is made by-
Multi-Union Trading Co Ltd of Hong Kong produces Print Rite ink
amongst others

See link-
http://www.globalsources.com/si/6007000022298/multiun.co These folk
are willing to fill a cartridge for you and will put your own labe
on... so it's anybody else's guess who else uses them

So who owns Multi-Union Trading Co Ltd ......???

Dav

 

[Davy]

Same with pigment vs dye black (BCI-3e)

Dye black is shiny, pigment is dull (using a swab test

A dye black printout will run terribly when immersed in water
Pigment black will show no real change (though the paper will b wet!)

Now I remember reading about this quite somewhile back, just neve
give it a thought at the time

Tell you something else I noted, it ran out pretty, pretty quickl
which I 'would' imagine it would do

Dav

 

[Taliesyn]

wet!).


Now I remember reading about this quite somewhile back, just never
give it a thought at the time.

Tell you something else I noted, it ran out pretty, pretty quickly
which I 'would' imagine it would do.

Yes, just one drop of water and it's instantly ruined.

-Taliesyn

 

[measekite]

Sorry but Printrite is made by-:
Multi-Union Trading Co Ltd of Hong Kong produces Print Rite inks
amongst others.

See link-:
http://www.globalsources.com/si/6007000022298/multiun.co These folks
are willing to fill a cartridge for you and will put your own label
on... so it's anybody else's guess who else uses them.

this is perfect for the garage site relabeler with the phony guarantee
that can never be collected on who will never disclose what they are
selling cause they know it is no good.

 

[measekite]

more junk
sensinent does not sell a brand of ink under their label.

Same with pigment vs dye black (BCI-3e).

Dye black is shiny, pigment is dull (using a swab test)

A dye black printout will run terribly when immersed in water.
Pigment black will show no real change (though the paper will be wet!).

My favorite test requires none of the above. Dye black shows up as
purplish red when held up to a strong light. That's all I do when I
buy an unknown cartridge - hold it up to a light. Pigmented black is
almost light proof and shows as black (not purplish red).

my my you mean the relabeler does not label it correctly and
misrepresents what you are buying. i never have that problem with canon.

Anyone who refills notices that when they clean the syringes, the dye
black washes out purplish red.

who wants to clean syringes. another messy pain.

 

[measekite]

That is precisely what I was told by a dealer - that they had to drop
pigmented black cartridges and use the much cheaper dye black (easier to
make) in order to compete with other dealers and office supply stores.

that is saying they want to make more money so they screw the customer.

So not only are they competing with OEM ink but with other aftermarket
ink sellers as well.

who really want to not provide what the factory recommends

The cheaper dye inks are, however, fine for the
majority of people who only run off simple text, emails, etc. But those
who demand the best inks will seek out suppliers that offer a choice of
formulas (pigment/dye). Fussy people, like me. Shop around, there's
good ink in them there hills!

oh yeah the onus is on the customer to find products that are better
crap than most of the junk the relabelers want to sell. no wonder they
will not disclose what they are selling and use words like compatible
and high quality and factory equivilant. they are trying not to get
sued. now the truth is coming out in the wash.

 

[measekite]

snip due to request

Some countries require importers to state the contents and origin of
chemicals. I haven't looked recently but I do remember seeing some of these
declarations online in the past. Perhaps the source can be identified from
these?

I wouldn't be surprised if they had more than one source because being
"single sourced" isn't good business practice. T

there is a point there. you can buy from one relabeler at either two
different times or different batches and get two totally different
products. while the oems probably multisource also they control the
fomulations and the quality along with total control over all of the specs.

hey may also have licensing
deal in place which prevents the manufacturer sellin ink of the same
composition to other companies.

that may be true also

 

[Taliesyn]

that is saying they want to make more money so they screw the customer.



who really want to not provide what the factory recommends



oh yeah the onus is on the customer to find products that are better

Yes. How is this different from anything else we buy? We shop around
and try different "jams" and "peanut butters" until one suits both our
taste and budget. Same for electronics, auto, medicine, etc. You always
shop around until you come across the one that fits your taste (needs)
and budget. Yes, I know OEM ink is good, but it doesn't fit my budget.
Hence, I shop around. I did, and I currently use HobbiColors. And I'm
absolutely thrilled that I don't have to pay 10 times as much to get
the same general ink I get from OEM. Clog free, no more fade than the
original, and has the three essential colors - cyan, yellow and
magenta! . When Canon matches the price of HobbiColors, then we'll
talk. Right now Canon's bid to get me as a customer has been rejected
as being wasteful. Even at my low rate this year of maybe 2 sets of
cartridges, that cost is more than a new iP4200 printer. That's a cruel
waste of money better spent on "jam" and "peanut butter". Yum!

-Taliesyn (Happy Mother's Day, all!)

 

[Zitty]

snip due to request

there is a point there. you can buy from one relabeler at either two
different times or different batches and get two totally different
products.

And indeed you can buy from OEM's and get completely different products.
Lots of OEM inks are formulated differently for different parts of the
world, but unfortunately they seem to have no control over what you can
actually buy at any one outlet.

while the oems probably multisource also they control the fomulations and
the quality along with total control over all of the specs.

yes.... very consistent -
http://www.alotofthings.com/inkjetinformation/Epsonoriginalinkconsistency.htm
NOT!

 

[measekite]

And indeed you can buy from OEM's and get completely different products.

that is totally false. one of the reasons you pay more for an oem
product is to get the consistency they provide.

Lots of OEM inks are formulated differently for different parts of the
world, but unfortunately they seem to have no control over what you can
actually buy at any one outlet.

if you are in a country then you get a consistent product. no ifs ands
or buts.

 

[measekite]

snip


Yes, I know OEM ink is good, but it doesn't fit my budget.

now that is something i agree with and i do understand. glad you
finally admitted that

snip