bootup problem

T

twizzle350

hi
i have a booting problem,it started a week ago, it gets as far as mem test
ok, or to checking drives, then stops/hangs, the hd light pulses appr 1sec
with a light beeping sound, it took 3/4 resets to bootup, ( no prob on warm
reboot)
i have done a clean install of xp pro inc sp2. with no updates.
with the same result. only needs 1 reset to bootup now.
i have run seagate`s hd testing tool`s all passed.

can anyone shed any light on this problem

mb optronix with amd sepron 2.8 ghz
thanks in advance
 
G

Gerry

Please post copies of all Error and Warning Reports appearing in
the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for the last boot. No
Information Reports or Duplicates please. Indicate which also appear in
a previous boot.

You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
are important.

A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
Event Viewer.

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
D

db ´¯`·.. >

if you did a reinstall
and it was successful
but still have a problem
its likely to be a physical
hardware related issue
you are experiencing.

what you might want
to do is to look in your
cmos and ensure your
settings are correct.

if by chance a setting
was wrong in the cmos/bios
then rebooting might
be what is allowing you
to boot the disk.

another possibility is that
if your system is set to
boot from the cd, and
it is faulty, then it could
cause a problem too.

yet another possibility
might be a faulty power
supply.

as you can see by the above
it would seem that the possibilities
for your issue are likely related
to an issue with a hardware
and not windows.

there is a funny little trick
you might try in the interim.

press and hold the up-arrow
key immediately after the
mem test at boot up.

and let us know if
you get a little menu...

if you do, make a selection
and report back.

--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
T

twizzle350

hi gerry
these are the 2 app logs, they are the same as the previous bootup,
there are no yellow ? marks or wrngs in system log from 21/12/07
and no yellow ? in device manager.
i had to reboot 4 times today.

Event Type: Warning
Event Source: EvntAgnt
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1015
Date: 28/12/2007
Time: 17:25:17
User: N/A
Computer: MICHAEL-904D05C
Description:
TraceLevel parameter not located in registry; Default trace level used is 32.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

Event Type: Warning
Event Source: EvntAgnt
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1003
Date: 28/12/2007
Time: 17:25:17
User: N/A
Computer: MICHAEL-904D05C
Description:
TraceFileName parameter not located in registry; Default trace file used is .

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.


:

Please post copies of all Error and Warning Reports appearing in
the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for the last boot. No
Information Reports or Duplicates please. Indicate which also appear in
a previous boot.

You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
are important.

A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
Event Viewer.

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


twizzle350 wrote: hi
i have a booting problem,it started a week ago, it gets as far as mem
test ok, or to checking drives, then stops/hangs, the hd light pulses
appr 1sec with a light beeping sound, it took 3/4 resets to bootup,
( no prob on warm reboot)
i have done a clean install of xp pro inc sp2. with no updates.
with the same result. only needs 1 reset to bootup now.
i have run seagate`s hd testing tool`s all passed.

can anyone shed any light on this problem

mb optronix with amd sepron 2.8 ghz
thanks in advance
 
T

twizzle350

:
there is a funny little trick
you might try in the interim.

press and hold the up-arrow
key immediately after the
mem test at boot up.

and let us know if
you get a little menu...

if you do, make a selection
and report back.

db

hi db
tried your trick nothing happend :)
my first boot device is floppy drive ( changed back after xp install)
i dont touch the bios or cmos,as i dont know what i am doing.
i tried swapping my dvd with my cd as the primary master, just the same.
installed a new kingston 1gig mem aswell
 
D

db ´¯`·.. >

well, the trick is tricky
in itself and gots to be
super alert as to when
to press it.

however, it might be a
good time to inquire about
your bios and you
should visit your computers
homesite and study this
very important feature.

now a days, the cmos/bios
is more informational and
user friendly. most also have
a button to automatically
search for hardware that
is connected.

but there is no assurance that this is
error free process and at times requires
a human to double check
the bios.

one of the reasons that
familiarization with the bios
is important is because when
you connect different hardware
to the motherboard the bios has
to recognize them.

so as you have been switching
between floppy, cd and dvd,
then the bios may have automatically
recognize the devices as you changed
them. but there is no guarantee.

so you will need to roll up your
sleeves and take a look under the
hood, e.g. cmos/bios.

if and when you do, be sure
to set the primary/main harddrive
as the "boot up" device, instead
of a cd, dvd, or floppy.

here is an excerpt from a
microsoft kb explaining
a bit more on the bios.

but you should also review
your computers user manual
and or the homesite:

-------------------------------

SUMMARY
When you start your computer, the basic input/output system (BIOS) checks (among
other things) the system-specific settings that are stored in the complementary
metal-oxide semiconductor (CMOS) chip. You can modify these settings as the
system changes.

To change the CMOS settings, you must enter CMOS Setup by pressing a specific
key or a combination of keys during the initial startup sequence. For example,
press DEL or CTRL+ALT+ESC during the startup. (The specific key combination that
you press is typically indicated during startup as "Press <keyname> to enter
Setup".)

After you have entered Setup, windows that display various options and settings
appear. Some of these options are standard, while others are specific to the
BIOS manufacturer.


--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
G

Gerry

What is your computer make and model?

How old is the computer?

Do you have a Windows XP CD and does that CD include the SP2 update?

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

Try running HD Tune(freeware).

Download and run it and see what it turns up.
http://www.hdtune.com/

Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.

Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy to
Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. You can also do a full
surface scan with HD Tune.

Do you encounter problems if you boot into safe mode.

What changes, if any, were made to hardware and software immediately
before the problem first arose?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
T

twizzle350

hi db
last night i set HDO as my first boot device.
today on bootup it did not get as far as the mem test before hanging ?
1st reset it got halfway through mem test before stopping,
2nd reset stopped after mem test
3rd reset stopped after clock DDR333
4th reset it booted.
i have run windows memory diagnosic tool (all passed)
the bios has reconised dvd & cd drive changes.
tried again pressing up arrow after mem test, still no window came up.
where to go from here?
 
G

Gerry

What is your computer make and model?

How old is the computer?

Do you have a Windows XP CD and does that CD include the SP2 update?

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

Try running HD Tune(freeware).

Download and run it and see what it turns up.
http://www.hdtune.com/

Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.

Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy to
Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. You can also do a full
surface scan with HD Tune.

Do you encounter problems if you boot into safe mode.

What changes, if any, were made to hardware and software immediately
before the problem first arose?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
W

w_tom

i have run windows memory diagnosic tool (all passed)
the bios has reconised dvd & cd drive changes.
tried again pressing up arrow after mem test, still no window came up.
where to go from here?

Windows diagnostics are not informative. Furthermore, memory
diagnostics do not report good memory until executed also with system
in a 100 degree F room (completely normal temperature to any good
computer) or with memory heated by a hair dryer on highest setting. To
memory, 'pigs heaven' is being so warm as to be uncomfortable to touch
but not so hot as to leave skin when touched. Memory diagnostic must
also work at those temperatures before declaring memory as good.

All suggestions are classic shotgunning. Could be this or could be
that or ... Now tell me which parts you know are 'definitively good'
or 'definitively bad'. You can't. Therefore nothing has been
accomplished. From here on, we discuss how to accomplish something.

The one system that can make everything appear bad or intermittent
is the power supply 'system'. Power supply is only one 'system'
component. You must move the 'system' from 'unknown' to 'definitively
something'. A two minute procedure does just that: "When your
computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the
newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

And then numbers exist so that better informed posters will reply
when those numbers are posted. Especially informative are numbers
from orange, red, yellow, and purple wires when system is under max
load created by multitasking. Only move on to other suspects when the
supply 'system' is definitively good,

What will make your problem exponentially more complex? Reloading
Windows on a defective hardware is foolish. The informed technician
never replaced anything on speculation. First the suspect is
identified. Only then is only the suspect replaced.

Better computer manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware
diagnostics for free. If yours is from an inferior manufacturer, then
download diagnostics from component manufacturers or third parties.
The list of components that can shut down a preemptive multitasking OS
is limited to power supply, sound card, video controller, CPU, memory,
and some motherboard functions. Those other suspects are 'tested'
once the power supply 'system' is 'definitively good'. Anything that
is still 'unknown' means no useful work was accomplished. That says
shotgunning is wasted time and is how your problem could become
exponentially complex. Do not replace a part only on speculation.
 
D

db ´¯`·.. >

well setting the hd
as boot up is good.

now what i suspect
is the ram.

you mentioned getting
a 1gb, then you mentioned
ddr333.

so did you have
this trouble prior to
get more ram?



--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
T

twizzle350

:
now what i suspect
is the ram.
you mentioned getting
a 1gb, then you mentioned
ddr333.-------------------------this ref is on bootup eg:mem test >clock
speed > checking ide drives etc

so did you have
this trouble prior to
get more ram? ------------- no, this new ram has been working ok for
approx 8 mths

this is why i done a hd format and clean install.
 
T

twizzle350

:
What is your computer make and model?-----custom built by computer shop

How old is the computer?------ approx 2yrs

Do you have a Windows XP CD and does that CD include the SP2 update?----yes

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

no drivers listed mostly dll`s & help files + 4 exe + a few others

Try running HD Tune(freeware).
Download and run it and see what it turns up.--------- looks ok, no events
or others
http://www.hdtune.com/

Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.

Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy to
Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. You can also do a full
surface scan with HD Tune.

Do you encounter problems if you boot into safe mode.----- havent tried
safe mode

What changes, if any, were made to hardware and software immediately
before the problem first arose?------ no changes, its been running ok for
approx 8mths


gerry, would it be better if we done a remote assistance?
then you could maybe see whats happening.

thanks mike
 
D

db ´¯`·.. >

ok.

but take a moment and
see the big picture and
read your prior posting,
regarding 4 resets.

the issue you are having
is starting prior to reading
the boot sector on the hd.

the polite emphasis on
the above is the word "prior"
as in prior to initializing the hd your
bios encounters a fault.

mem tests are helpful, however
how many resets does is take
before you can initiate a mem test.

some bios have additional
settings to configure the ram
and settings to optimize/
overclock the performance
of the ram and sometimes
this tweak cannot be used.

if you have two chips of ram
then they need to be exactly
the same.
--

db ·´¯`·.¸. said:
<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>


..
 
T

twizzle350

hi db
i have just removed the 1gig ram stick. and installed a 512 ram stick,
results are still the same on bootup, eg: mem test ok
system clock ddr333
checking for ide
drives
system stops/hangs
hd light flashing every second with a beeping sound every second coming
from the motherboard?
3 resets to bootup today.
bios set to optimised defaults, as per mb manual.
 
W

w_tom

this is why i done a hd format and clean install.

All those symptoms say nothing about the OS as relevant. If memory
was failing during BIOS, then why did the BIOS memory test not detect
that error and report it? During memory test, BIOS does not even use
untested memory. So why did the system crash sometimes during memory
testing?

Your actions contradict what symptoms are saying. Things such as
the CD-Rom were completely irrelevant. But again, what is the one
component (subsystem) that can cause each of those failures? It was
listed in the previous post.

After all that work, what have you accomplished? Nothing is known
'definitively good'. Therefore nothing has been accomplished.
Previous post described how to eliminate potential suspects. That
previous post addressed what may cause all your failures. And that
previous post described how to get answers without doubt.

Is memory good or bad? After all that work, memory is still
unknown. And after all that work, memory does not explain some of the
boot failure symptoms. After all that work, nothing has been
accomplished, we are no closer to identifying the problem, and now a
new variable has been added - OS reinstalled when hardware may be
defective.

8 months ago, it is possible that this computer had this defect.
Yes, a computer with a defective power supply can boot fine and run
for months. Eventually strange things start to happen. Two minute
procedure that might found this defect then and could create
'definitively good' or 'definitively bad' answers is also the
procedure that could have identified this defect 8 months ago.

Is memory defective? Well the memory diagnostic that works without
Windows would have answered that question long ago - definitively.

BIOS gets so far and then crashes. Well, crashes define limited
hardware involved. Each BIOS crash involves what software; especially
never involves Windows? Posted previous is the short list of
potential suspects. Many things 'fixed' were never on that list. A
list now made even shorter by those symptoms.

Previously posted is how to step through the problem - change each
potential suspect from unknown to 'definitively good'. Accomplishment
is measured by a list of things no longer 'unknown'. Currently that
list is remains empty after so much work. Demonstrates that
shotgunning accomplished little.
 
W

w_tom

hi db
i have just removed the 1gig ram stick. and installed a 512 ram stick,
results are still the same on bootup, eg: mem test ok
  system clock ddr333
   checking for ide drives
    system stops/hangs
 hd light flashing every second with a beeping sound every second coming
from the motherboard?

This is before or after memory is tested. One beep repeated is
typically failure of clocks or CPU - failures long before even memory
is tested. You BIOS is which? But again, you symptoms are limited to
the short list in my original post. To advance on that problem, your
solution is found in that original post. What you are doing is simply
reporting again the same things found in your original post - and
making no progress. This problem is not that complex. But as they say
in CSI - follow the evidence. You are not doing that.

What does the BIOS test every time without failure? What is the
BIOS manufacturer so that the beep code can be translated into
English? Have you executed manufacturer's comprehensive diagnostics
created to solve your kind of problem?
 
T

twizzle350

w_tom
thanks for your input. i am a mechanical person, not a computer/electrical
person.
i have to try and do the basic elemination`s that i know of.
hd tested ok
mem/ram changed and tested ok (hot tested)
cables checked ok
dvd & cd drives swapped over
bios first boot device changed to hdo, from floppy
driver`s checked ok
pc health ok
no event elerts

my next move is to checkout ,or replace the power supply?
if thats ok then the only thing left that i can think of is a fault in the mb?
 
W

w_tom

my next move is to checkout ,or replace the power supply?
if thats ok then the only thing left that i can think of is a fault in the mb?

Again, you are speculating. Some of the things declared OK are
(from what I read) are still unknown. Don't replace anything.
Shotgunning a power supply may only complicate your problem and will
not provide a useful answer.

In that last post, I asked some questions. Those questions were not
rhetorical. Questions you should have had answers for long ago - in
order to "follow the evidence". For example, the computer was beeping
repeatedly. Now learn beep language. But which dialect? Well, what
is the BIOS manufacturer? Notice the difference between your
procedure of only speculating (sometimes in direct contradiction to
the facts) and then testing; verses the method recommend - "follow the
evidence".

Again, much of those facts - especially numbers - are how you get
replies from the better informed.

Asked was about reports from comprehensive hardware diagnostics.
That also was not a rhetorical question. You cannot selectively
answer questions and expect useful replies. Every question asked was
laser burning into your problem. And it it sounded hard, then it was
the better answer and, BTW, was not hard.

Again, your list of 'accomplishments' is near zero. HD was
completely irrelevant - should not have been tested.

Memory (ram) remains "unknown". Your testing procedure does not say
memory is good. I don't remember if I posted a 'definitive'
solution. But swapping parts did not prove anything 'definitive'.
Your later posts suggest memory was not even involved. Again, nothing
accomplished.

How did you check cables? Not that cable have anything to do with
BIOS crashing.

DVD and CD Rom completely irrelevant, not even on the longer list of
potential subjects, and again nothing accomplished.

Changing what BIOS boots from - irrelevant since you have a beep
code. Long before anything was booting, a complete failure was
detected and reported. Nothing accomplished since you still don't
speak beep.

Drivers checked? Checked for what? Drivers are relevant only
after booting. Your failure occurs before booting. Again, nothing
accomplished.

PC health OK? What says that? Did you run the manufacturer's
comprehensive hardware diagnostics? I don't see anything that says PC
health is OK - especially since he machine intermittently does not
boot.

No events in system (event) log and no problems in Device Manager.
Right idea. Then later, the problem was occurring before booting
meaning that Operating System information is irrelevant. You have a
hardware problem before any software loads (according to how I read
your posts). Therefore why are you looking at Windows? Again,
nothing accomplished.

Swapping a power supply does nothing. The original post says
exactly what is necessary to make 'definitively good' the one system
(more than a power supply) that can make all others defective. "When
your computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the
newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Disconnect nothing. Get numbers. Get conclusions from those
numbers AND get useful other information by posting those numbers
here. Again, did you read the short list of potential suspects in
that original post? All that labor ignores facts on the table (in
that original post) and therefore accomplished nothing useful.

You are randomly 'checking' things. Stop analysis by wild
speculation. Get facts (ie beep code). Follow the evidence as is
even taught in a TV show called CSI. Provided was the short list of
potential suspects. That is where you should have been looking. Of
course, that two minute procedure should have been done long ago.
 
A

Anna

Mike:
I realize this thread has been going on for some time and that you've
received a good deal of information and suggestions re your problem.
Assuming you're not too weary at this time, let me suggest another approach
for you to take (assuming you haven't already gone through this process)...

Get inside your desktop computer case (after pulling the A/C plug from your
wall socket) and remove (disconnect) all peripheral devices including your
hard drive(s), optical drive(s), sound card, etc. Disconnect all storage
devices, printers, and any other devices connected to the machine.

So that all you'll be working with is your motherboard, processor, heat
sink, RAM, video card, and power supply. Better yet, should your motherboard
be equipped with onboard video/graphics capability, disconnect your video
card from the system. Just make sure your BIOS setting (should there be one)
reflects that onboard graphics/video is enabled.

Reconnect your A/C cord and power on the system.

What happens? Do you get a "normal" screen display? No error messages or
strange notations?

Can you access your BIOS without any difficulty at this point and review the
CMOS settings? Can you check the hardware monitor in the BIOS to determine
that all temps are within normal range?

Assuming all is well at this point leave the system powered on for the next
hour or so, checking to see if anything untoward shows up.

Using your reset button, try powering down & up a few times to determine if
there are any problems there.

Should all appear well at this point this is an indication that there's
nothing wrong with the basic components of your system. While it's not
absolutely definitive that this is so, it's a very strong indication that
something else is amiss.

Does your machine have a floppy disk drive? If so do you have a DOS boot
disk and give that a try?

I believe you indicated you used the HDD diagnostic utility from the disk's
manufacturer and it checked out OK. You're absolutely sure it's properly
connected & configured? Did you change its data cable (IDE or SATA)? Try
connecting it to another IDE channel or SATA connector if it's a SATA HDD?
Any chance of using another HDD?

In any event, install one device at a time and see if you can narrow down
what's causing your problem.
Anna
 

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