Vista any good ?

  • Thread starter Shaun Dickinson
  • Start date
S

Shaun

I have had Vista 64bit running for a few months and my humble opinion would
be stick to XP for now.

I wont bore anyone with all the problems I have had. All I will say is that
Vista is like a meddlesome mother-in-law that insists on doing everything for
you but only succeeds in making your life worse.

It is quite possible that one day Vista will be a great OS. That day will
not arrive until enough time has elapsed for MS to sort out the plethora of
teething problems that have arisen and hardware and software manufacturers
have gotten their heads around making things that work properly with it.

To an extent these problems face any new operating system, but one suspects
that in the case of Vista, MS unleashed it upon the world before either it,
or the PC community, were ready for one another.

It is also quite possible that one day Vista will be consigned to the
dustbin of history as a huge expensive failure for MS, and instead of having
a coming of age, it will be hastily replaced with MS's next big thing.

In my humble opinion, no one really knows which fate awaits Vista. Anyone
who claims to know is either a fool or a liar. If you buy Vista now, you are
taking a big risk, and can only console yourself that you are sacrificing
your own computing happiness and security for the sake of those who will
follow you.

Until they do, VISTA = Visually Impressive Source of Time-wasting and
Aggravation
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

Shaun said:
I have had Vista 64bit running for a few months and my humble opinion would
be stick to XP for now.

I wont bore anyone with all the problems I have had. All I will say is
that
Vista is like a meddlesome mother-in-law that insists on doing everything
for
you but only succeeds in making your life worse.

It is quite possible that one day Vista will be a great OS. That day will
not arrive until enough time has elapsed for MS to sort out the plethora
of
teething problems that have arisen and hardware and software manufacturers
have gotten their heads around making things that work properly with it.

To an extent these problems face any new operating system, but one
suspects
that in the case of Vista, MS unleashed it upon the world before either
it,
or the PC community, were ready for one another.

It is also quite possible that one day Vista will be consigned to the
dustbin of history as a huge expensive failure for MS, and instead of
having
a coming of age, it will be hastily replaced with MS's next big thing.

In my humble opinion, no one really knows which fate awaits Vista. Anyone
who claims to know is either a fool or a liar. If you buy Vista now, you
are
taking a big risk, and can only console yourself that you are sacrificing
your own computing happiness and security for the sake of those who will
follow you.

Until they do, VISTA = Visually Impressive Source of Time-wasting and
Aggravation


You should have run 32bit. There were less compatibility problems..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
C

Canuck57

Mike Hall - MVP said:
You should have run 32bit. There were less compatibility problems..

Mike,

I too have tried Vista 64 bit and 32 bit and had the exact same
frustrations. I too will not go into a list as it is too long to post here.
One advantage 64 bit has, is with the OS taking 22% of 8GB of RAM you have
more free RAM for applications. And yes, I bought a nice GPU to replace on
onboard UMA.

Vista looks nice, but peal off the fancy glass interface and it is a pest
to use and customize. Slow on disk copy and network. Obficated inside, try
getting it working with Samba... Even though I am using it, and power
savings off I can hear drives cycling up and down. This is beta ware!

Why does Microsoft not sell or give us the option of which OS at a
reasonable price? Seriously? Something wrong with "Shall that be Vista or
XP?" on it's first boot? Is Microsoft grown so arrogant they want to force
feed us Vista?

Don't tell me if I buy a small disk over priced business system so I can use
XP, I want it on the $1000 home PC. I can't get XP Pro x64 or better yet
MCE... I can get 32 bit, but that is insufficient. My other older PC is MCE
and to me it is Microsoft's zenith in OS development. I want that one.

I want XP MCE or I will switch to Linux.
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

Inline

Mike,

I too have tried Vista 64 bit and 32 bit and had the exact same
frustrations. I too will not go into a list as it is too long to post
here.

Vista did have issues of its own, and have been addressed in the SP1 update
which will find its way onto systems very soon.

But Microsoft is not the whole industry, and for whatever reasons, many 3rd
party manufacturers and software authors showed public intransigence when it
came to writing drivers or updates for anything. Even the MS keyboard/mice
manufacturer played hard to get.

Some of the manufacturers have back tracked since the early days as there
was no big rush to replace printers, scanners, USB wireless devices etc.
What the manufacturers didn't want was for people to stay with XP, because
then there would be no need for users to replace anything and they would
lose revenue.

64bit is still much of a niche, and manufacturers were not prepared to put
time and effort into writing 64bit stuff if hardly anybody was going to use
it. This is changing but slowly.
One advantage 64 bit has, is with the OS taking 22% of 8GB of RAM you have
more free RAM for applications. And yes, I bought a nice GPU to replace
on > onboard UMA.

For the average user/business workstation there is not a need for more than
4gb as yet. And integrated video is always a compromise as laptop owners
find out.
Vista looks nice, but peal off the fancy glass interface and it is a pest
to use and customize. Slow on disk copy and network.

SP1 addresses these issues
Obficated inside, try getting it working with Samba...

Samba has issues too..
Even though I am using it, and power savings off I can hear drives cycling
up and down.

Vista defaults to power saving. It can be changed..

This is beta ware!

No more than anything else in the IT world..
Why does Microsoft not sell or give us the option of which OS at a
reasonable price? Seriously?

Fixed overheads, salaries to be paid? They do more than produce Vista..
Something wrong with "Shall that be Vista or XP?" on it's first boot? Is
Microsoft grown so arrogant they want to force feed us Vista?

Like many other software authors, they do not want to have to support old
stuff for ever..
Don't tell me if I buy a small disk over priced business system so I can
use XP, I want it on the $1000 home PC. I can't get XP Pro x64 or better
yet MCE... I can get 32 bit, but that is insufficient. My other older PC
is MCE and to me it is Microsoft's zenith in OS development. I want that
one.

Vista Ultimate replaces that..
I want XP MCE or I will switch to Linux.

And you think that Linux will be better? Go ahead..



--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
K

karl mcgruber

Thanks, Mike.

My daughter's birthday is in April. So I took one of Dell's cheap laptop
offers.

I really had to question my motives, but ordered it with XP.

I love my $345 Acer laptop from Wal-Mart and playing with Vista has been
fun. But even with a RAM upgrade to 2 Megs, it still runs everything slower
and more obtrusively. Vista is cute and I'm sure better in some ways that I
haven't found, but XP does the job faster and without all the fuss. One
thing that drives me nuts about Vista is that when they ask if I'm really
sure if I want to do something, the mouse pointer won't automatically slew
to "OK." Yes, it's a minor nit, but happens several times a session.

Best,
Karl
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

karl mcgruber said:
Thanks, Mike.

My daughter's birthday is in April. So I took one of Dell's cheap laptop
offers.

I really had to question my motives, but ordered it with XP.

I love my $345 Acer laptop from Wal-Mart and playing with Vista has been
fun. But even with a RAM upgrade to 2 Megs, it still runs everything
slower and more obtrusively. Vista is cute and I'm sure better in some
ways that I haven't found, but XP does the job faster and without all the
fuss. One thing that drives me nuts about Vista is that when they ask if
I'm really sure if I want to do something, the mouse pointer won't
automatically slew to "OK." Yes, it's a minor nit, but happens several
times a session.

Best,
Karl


Laptops are slower by virtue of the fact that the internals can't be allowed
to generate too much heat, and so have to be lower powered. Also the default
power setting for Vista on a laptop is quite stringent in order to preserve
battery life.

I have worked on an Acer with only 1GB, and while it was not exactly
blistering, it was better than I thought it would be.

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
C

Canuck57

Mike Hall - MVP said:
Inline




Vista did have issues of its own, and have been addressed in the SP1
update which will find its way onto systems very soon.

But Microsoft is not the whole industry, and for whatever reasons, many
3rd party manufacturers and software authors showed public intransigence
when it came to writing drivers or updates for anything. Even the MS
keyboard/mice manufacturer played hard to get.

Some of the manufacturers have back tracked since the early days as there
was no big rush to replace printers, scanners, USB wireless devices etc.
What the manufacturers didn't want was for people to stay with XP, because
then there would be no need for users to replace anything and they would
lose revenue.

64bit is still much of a niche, and manufacturers were not prepared to put
time and effort into writing 64bit stuff if hardly anybody was going to
use it. This is changing but slowly.


For the average user/business workstation there is not a need for more
than 4gb as yet. And integrated video is always a compromise as laptop
owners find out.


SP1 addresses these issues

SP1, was it not withdrawn once? Not a comforting feeling. And from what I
hear, it does break new things.
Samba has issues too..

The issue with Samba is Vista. I have used Samba for over 10 years. This
is the first MS product it does not work with, and obviously deliberate on
MS part. Samba even works with Linux, did you know that?

And it's VPN/IPSec works too. Even between different version of Linux,
Solaris and devices.
up and down.

Vista defaults to power saving. It can be changed..

I changed it. I was running Windows 1.0, that did not take long to figure,
yet with sleep/conservation off the drives still would cycle. If have
problems with it, my guess is very many people do, just haven't burned their
drives out yet. But not a problems as of an hour ago.
No more than anything else in the IT world..

Yes, but this accelerates the decline. Just that you and MS pundits have
accepted it. If Vista was a car, I would be pursuing the lemon law.
Fixed overheads, salaries to be paid? They do more than produce Vista..

Huh? XP is sunk cost. Not that much cost to keep it in copy. If I went to
Ford, and said I wanted a F150 4x4, I don't think they would say they could
only sell me an Edsel.
Like many other software authors, they do not want to have to support old
stuff for ever..

And we don't want to be the beta testers. Maybe Microsoft aught to make all
their programers use machines people regularily buy, make them use Vista day
in an day out until they get it right. And audit them to make sure they are
not cheating.
Vista Ultimate replaces that..

Bu11sh1t. I am not spending any more on Vista and at the rate of progress,
I will likely retire before I see a SP 4. Ultimate, a chance to bilk
people.

MS profits are up for the moment because they are double dipping the
consumer. Something that will not last. Buy a new machine, Vista only.
Then get a XP so things will work. MS-Windows, bought twice runs once.
And you think that Linux will be better? Go ahead..

Already did. Dual booting Fedora 8 and SUSE Enterprise to see which one I
like best. No hassles either, the boot nicely coexists and isn't myopic
like the MS one. Installed right the first time. Even downloaded MythTV
for when I get the chance to play.

Me, I now run real windows, X-Windows. Stable, compatible and proven. Even
runs Office, OpenOffice that is.
 
M

Mike Hall - MVP

Canuck57 said:
SP1, was it not withdrawn once? Not a comforting feeling. And from what
I hear, it does break new things.


The issue with Samba is Vista. I have used Samba for over 10 years. This
is the first MS product it does not work with, and obviously deliberate on
MS part. Samba even works with Linux, did you know that?

And it's VPN/IPSec works too. Even between different version of Linux,
Solaris and devices.


I changed it. I was running Windows 1.0, that did not take long to
figure, yet with sleep/conservation off the drives still would cycle. If
have problems with it, my guess is very many people do, just haven't
burned their drives out yet. But not a problems as of an hour ago.


Yes, but this accelerates the decline. Just that you and MS pundits have
accepted it. If Vista was a car, I would be pursuing the lemon law.


Huh? XP is sunk cost. Not that much cost to keep it in copy. If I went
to Ford, and said I wanted a F150 4x4, I don't think they would say they
could only sell me an Edsel.


And we don't want to be the beta testers. Maybe Microsoft aught to make
all their programers use machines people regularily buy, make them use
Vista day in an day out until they get it right. And audit them to make
sure they are not cheating.


Bu11sh1t. I am not spending any more on Vista and at the rate of
progress, I will likely retire before I see a SP 4. Ultimate, a chance to
bilk people.

MS profits are up for the moment because they are double dipping the
consumer. Something that will not last. Buy a new machine, Vista only.
Then get a XP so things will work. MS-Windows, bought twice runs once.


Already did. Dual booting Fedora 8 and SUSE Enterprise to see which one I
like best. No hassles either, the boot nicely coexists and isn't myopic
like the MS one. Installed right the first time. Even downloaded MythTV
for when I get the chance to play.

Me, I now run real windows, X-Windows. Stable, compatible and proven.
Even runs Office, OpenOffice that is.


Real Windows? hahahaha. I am amazed that you need any kind of Windows being
as you are into real computing.

Tell me something. Does a document typed out in OO Writer carry more weight
than the same typed out in Word 2007? Do you need more technical prowess to
be able to do it?

You anti-MS (or, I suspect anti any large corporation) Linux zealots talk
the same type of crap as did supporters of DOS when Windows first appeared.
Apparently, these people were into real computing, meaning that one had to
be able to remember at least five command line statements to get through a
day.

Have you amazed your family by opening up a command window and typing in
'ipconfig /all'. Weren't they just so impressed with your skill as all of
the text flashed up onto the screen!!

With your ability, you shouldn't have to ever buy a Windows computer. Just
throw a few parts together on the kitchen table, load up Fedora and hey
presto, a real computer for a real computer user. I'm impressed, can't you
tell?

The trouble is that 99% of the world aren't computer geeks. They have never
and will never have to take the side off of an IBM Chess Champion and fix
it. They will never have to look through the 12 volumes of AIX commands and,
with all respect, would not own a computer if they were the criteria for
owning one.

Whether you are the guy working on the 3D 'see it from all angles on the
screen' 747 wiring loom, administrator for a few Storage Managers, home geek
running two Linux variants just to type out something in OO Writer, or
Grandma downloading pictures of her grandchildren via Yahoo Messenger, the
common factor is computer user. One computer type doesn't do all. One OS
doesn't do all.

Re Vista, it works surprisingly well for many people. Like all other OS'es,
it has had its issues but they are fast disappearing, just as they did for
XP. Many users of Vista would never even come across Vista issues because
they are not the type to delve into Windows Explorer or try to copy 5gb
zipped files across a network. For those who do, some of the issues have
already been addressed.

The SP1 update was mistakenly made available for all instead of just for the
TechNet/MSDN crowd, which is why it was pulled. The stuff that SP1 broke had
all received fixes fairly quickly, so it doesn't break them anymore.

Is Vista right for everybody? If you know anything about computers, you will
recognize that there is not an OS on the planet that is right for everybody,
so knocking Vista, XP, Ubuntu, Suse, Fedora, Mac OS, AIX, is a dumb thing to
do.

They all do what they do. You are happy with what you have now, so leave it
at that. If Vista or any MS product doesn't work for you, use something
else.

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
 
N

NoStop

Mike said:
Real Windows? hahahaha. I am amazed that you need any kind of Windows
being as you are into real computing.

Tell me something. Does a document typed out in OO Writer carry more
weight than the same typed out in Word 2007? Do you need more technical
prowess to be able to do it?

You anti-MS (or, I suspect anti any large corporation) Linux zealots talk
the same type of crap as did supporters of DOS when Windows first
appeared. Apparently, these people were into real computing, meaning that
one had to be able to remember at least five command line statements to
get through a day.

Have you amazed your family by opening up a command window and typing in
'ipconfig /all'. Weren't they just so impressed with your skill as all of
the text flashed up onto the screen!!
<snip much bs>

ipconfig /all
bash: ipconfig: command not found

:) Try again.

Cheers.

--
What does Bill Gates use?
http://tinyurl.com/2zxhdl

Proprietary Software: a 20th Century software business model.

Be Afraid ... Be Very Afraid ... of Francis' RELATIVES!

Frank, hard at work on his Vista computer all day:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/compost.htm
 
C

Canuck57

Mike Hall - MVP said:
Real Windows? hahahaha. I am amazed that you need any kind of Windows
being as you are into real computing.

Yep, seasoned and reliable. Also works between vendors and is efficient
over the network. You should try it.

None of my servers however do I run graphics, I leave it off so the CPU and
memory can go towards the application at hand.
Tell me something. Does a document typed out in OO Writer carry more
weight than the same typed out in Word 2007? Do you need more technical
prowess to be able to do it?

I do like the idea of ODF, for if it wasn't open I wouldn't have switched.
But using one, or the other it isn't hard to switch. In fact, I do daily.
Some of my clients like ODF, some like it DOC. OpenOffice saves both. In
fact saves in older DOC formats as not all clients are that new, a feature I
like. But if on a clients PC, I use MS-Office if that is what they use.
You anti-MS (or, I suspect anti any large corporation) Linux zealots talk
the same type of crap as did supporters of DOS when Windows first
appeared. Apparently, these people were into real computing, meaning that
one had to be able to remember at least five command line statements to
get through a day.

I am not a myopic chair mushroom worshiping a false god and know technolgoy
comes, and it goes. I have used quite a few OSes behind me in the last
20-30 years. VAX, MVS, Windows 1.0 to Vista, including ever DOS since 2.10,
at least the top 10 UNIXes of the last 20 years, 3 BSDs and was into Linux
with Slackware .91 or something like that. Even did OS/2, Novell and pSOS,
vxWorks and others like MPE, CPM, TRS-DOS.

I specialize in C/C++ and Java, but can do almost any UNIX shell. Rusty,
but have done Visual Basic, Fortran, MFC, Motif, and lots I forget.

If MS can't take some critizism, too freaking bad.
Have you amazed your family by opening up a command window and typing in
'ipconfig /all'. Weren't they just so impressed with your skill as all of
the text flashed up onto the screen!!

Actually, you would be surprised at home many MSCE I have taught that too.
Netstat is another.

Had more than one case of a VB app, opening resources on the network with
the MS API flavor of the day and they couldn't find it.

Took me less that 5 minutes...
With your ability, you shouldn't have to ever buy a Windows computer. Just
throw a few parts together on the kitchen table, load up Fedora and hey
presto, a real computer for a real computer user. I'm impressed, can't you
tell?

Done that too. Most of mine in the past are home built. Even ran W2000 on
a dual celeraon mobo once. But for the price of parts, it is cheaper to buy
and add a decent video, add to the MS coaster collection and do it that way.

Microsoft will never admit how many copies of their OS they ship that never
boot up once.
The trouble is that 99% of the world aren't computer geeks. They have
never and will never have to take the side off of an IBM Chess Champion
and fix it. They will never have to look through the 12 volumes of AIX
commands and, with all respect, would not own a computer if they were the
criteria for owning one.

Yep, lets hope one laptop per child, running Linux will change Microsoft.
And most in China or India are not going to buy the hrse power to run Vista.
They can't afford it.

And when the next Chinese or Indian appliance comes in, don't be surprised
if the Windows server counts take a hit.
Whether you are the guy working on the 3D 'see it from all angles on the
screen' 747 wiring loom, administrator for a few Storage Managers, home
geek running two Linux variants just to type out something in OO Writer,
or Grandma downloading pictures of her grandchildren via Yahoo Messenger,
the common factor is computer user. One computer type doesn't do all. One
OS doesn't do all.

I can write a document in OO Writer, and can view edit on almost any GUI
type platform, including Macs, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, any BSD, any Linux with
a GUI. Your point? Why should I limit myself to Microsoft?
Re Vista, it works surprisingly well for many people. Like all other
OS'es, it has had its issues but they are fast disappearing, just as they
did for XP. Many users of Vista would never even come across Vista issues
because they are not the type to delve into Windows Explorer or try to
copy 5gb zipped files across a network. For those who do, some of the
issues have already been addressed.

If you are limiting yourself to email, surfing and light document
processing, you are correct. Vista is "good enough". But I don't see end
users writing code and systems. Maybe that is why after billions spent in
FUD, Apache still outranks IIS.
The SP1 update was mistakenly made available for all instead of just for
the TechNet/MSDN crowd, which is why it was pulled. The stuff that SP1
broke had all received fixes fairly quickly, so it doesn't break them
anymore.

That was a jab. I understand all fixes are not perfect - in any OS.
Is Vista right for everybody? If you know anything about computers, you
will recognize that there is not an OS on the planet that is right for
everybody, so knocking Vista, XP, Ubuntu, Suse, Fedora, Mac OS, AIX, is a
dumb thing to do.

That is why I actually try them ALL, and get at least fairly good at it. It
was time for me to try Vista.
They all do what they do. You are happy with what you have now, so leave
it at that. If Vista or any MS product doesn't work for you, use something
else.

Happy now. Still have to decide if I like SUSE or Fedora better.

BTW - Would do your career good to diversify. Being a Microsoft Borg, you
must understand resistance in NOT futile, I/T organizations like
diversification.... sadly lacking in most MSCEs.
 
C

Canuck57

NoStop said:
<snip much bs>

ipconfig /all
bash: ipconfig: command not found

:) Try again.

Cheers.

Yep we configured IPs, not interfaces in MS-Windows.

ifconfig -a

Works on almost any OS other there except one company. Where you configure
interfaces with IPs.
 
C

Canuck57

NoStop said:
<snip much bs>

ipconfig /all
bash: ipconfig: command not found

:) Try again.

Cheers.

Yep we configured IPs, not interfaces in MS-Windows.

ifconfig -a

Works on almost any OS other there except one company. Where you configure
interfaces with IPs.
 

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