"Frankenbuilds": the monster is dying...

[Dale]

If you're teaching English, that's VERY scary.

Dale

 

[Richard Urban]

Yep! Like downloading Windows Defender, which is free, through Kazaa,
because they thought they had beaten the "system".

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Alias]

People steal because they <<***WANT***>> to steal.

Not true. Some steal out of necessity. Some steal because their culture
tells them it's not only all right but encouraged, like the Gypsies in
Spain who see no reason not to steal from the non-gypsies and do not
recognize the laws of any country.

Alias

 

[Alias]

And I really appreciated it. I've been looking for you ever since to
give you a reward. Here's a free copy of Vista.

<snip>

Alias

 

[Alias]

If you're teaching English, that's VERY scary.

Dale

Yawn, an ad hominem because you can't address the issues.

Alias

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

I suspect there are some who feel so dependant on Kazaa and others, they
have not even considered there are better options for getting much of what
they get from Kazaa.

 

[Richard Urban]

Hey! Back in the early 1990's I copped a few shareware programs off of a
bulletin board service. I kept them for a couple of years and never sent in
the money.

Why did I do this? Because I ***wanted*** to - and it was convenient.

Putting 5 bucks in an envelope and taking it to the post office wasn't
convenient.

But mostly *****I WANTED TO*****.

Then I became unemployed. I realized that by my not sending in a gratuity I
may have been hurting someone else as I was presently (at the time) hurting.
I vowed to never do that again. My morals changed.

Some people just keep on doing it though, because they WANT to, evidenced by
the people who have 2000 illegally downloaded songs on their computer yet
live in a nice home and drive a great car. They have been downloading for
years and say there is nothing wrong with the practice. Nice way to bring up
children. Great example for them to follow.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

Right! Like for free from the developer. (-:



--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[DCR]

|I disagree. There were no DAT devices ever offered in the United States

WRONG!
I bought a Sony DAT at J & R Music World in downtown Manhattan about
5 or 6 years ago.

 

[mxh]

mxh wrote:

I see you flunked High School English.

I see you continue to declare facts not in evidence. Foolish. One would
expect more, given your stated profession. I suppose the bright side is that
you're not teaching morality. Even moreso, common sense.

 

[Dale]

Not true. Some steal out of necessity. Some steal because their culture
tells them it's not only all right but encouraged, like the Gypsies in
Spain who see no reason not to steal from the non-gypsies and do not
recognize the laws of any country.

Alias

Your Gypsy analogy, while a generalization and certainly not a accurate
representation of all Gypsies, proves Richard's point.

As for stealing out of necessity, at least in the United States, that's
never the case. That degree of poverty, in today's United States economy,
only exists as the result of specific personal choices. That's not to say
things may not be different in other economic situations such as the
depression of the 30's. Even in a depression, stealing a loaf of bread for
his hungry children might be the act of a desperate man, stealing computer
software for his own use is never so.

Dale

 

[Dale]

You just described conscience beautifully. It gave me a chill.

Dale

 

[Dale]

But don't you think that purveyors of Kazaa want to try to get people to use
it for downloading WMP, etc. so that they can get Kazaa installed, and along
with it all the spyware/adware it includes? They are depending on the same
ignorance about where to download that you describe but there are even more
sinister objectives that what you described - IMO.

Dale

 

[Dale]

I was sure never able to find one. I waited and watched. I'll concede the
error in my post but not error in my point.

Dale

 

[DCR]

| As for stealing out of necessity, at least in the United States, that's
| never the case. That degree of poverty, in today's United States economy,
| only exists as the result of specific personal choices.
|Dale

What planet are you from?
One's fortune in life, now, here in the US depends more than ever upon
whose womb one comes from. How do you account for the incredible
RISE in poverty, year after year, since Bush has been President?

You get your "facts" from Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Fox News,
don't you?

DCR

 

[mxh]

Sorry, but money is the point. If there wasn't a large price spread, no
piracy would occur, regardless of anyone's morality.

Either you are completely ignorant in matters of human nature or
sociopathic. Hard to tell at this point.

What you misunderstand is that I am not trying to justify stealing but
that it is directly linked to price.

While high pricing (and it *is* admittedly high) may be a factor for some,
many will steal regardless of price.
Those who are willing to steal rarely confine their acts of theft to only
those items that are over priced. And the 'professional' pirates will pirate
regardless of price.

It would be hard to buy pirated goods if they weren't available.

And they will always be available regardless of the buying price. *Always*.
If MS lowers their price, the pirates will lower their's.

Yeah, I've heard of it. Show me one head of state that follows your
guidance. This is the real world, chum, where morality has taken a back
seat to the all might dollar.

Ad hominem, but revealing. On one hand, you say that morality has nothing to
do with it, yet here, you justify immoral acts because the 'real world' is
immoral. You have just weakend your argument.

Now, as to myself, there was a time that I was very poor and one night I
was walking down the street with no money and a family to feed the next
day and I saw a man passed out on the street with the equivalent of a
couple hundred dollars falling out of his pocket. We hadn't eaten that day
and there was no guarantee we would eat the next. Instead of taking the
man's money, I woke him up and took him home.

So one's financial state actually has *nothing* to do with morality. Even
though some may have justified stealing from this man in the name of feeding
their family, you take the man in. Interesting that, after arguing against
it, you make my point.

No, I just tried to point out what "OK" means as far as MS is concerned.


I really can't stand morality pushers,

No one's 'pushing morality'. Just stating obvious realities. I'm sure that
moral standards are important to you when immoral acts are commited against
*you*. You apply moral standards to corporations. Moral standards are and
should be a way of life. However, as you have pointed out, degradation of
these standards have saturated our society and muddied the waters. Moral
relativism has become common thought, but the negative societal
ramifications are evident even now, with more to come.

especially those who haven't had to worry about money all their lives.

Implying that I haven't had such worries? How is it that you make such
unfounded conclusions?

mxh

 

[Alias]

Your Gypsy analogy, while a generalization and certainly not a accurate
representation of all Gypsies, proves Richard's point.

As for stealing out of necessity, at least in the United States, that's
never the case. That degree of poverty, in today's United States
economy, only exists as the result of specific personal choices. That's
not to say things may not be different in other economic situations such
as the depression of the 30's. Even in a depression, stealing a loaf of
bread for his hungry children might be the act of a desperate man,
stealing computer software for his own use is never so.

Dale

The software might be the man's rope to climb up out of poverty, too.

If you don't think there is poverty in the USA, you are sadly mistaken.
Check out south central LA and get back to me.

Alias

 

[Nina DiBoy]

I do not make out giving to be a problem.
However selective reading may bring you to that conclusion.

What you say about donating time is not really a surprise.
What you do not say is also no surprise.
Who determines what and how much you and your father donate?
Who hounds you because they do not think you give enough and what do you
give them when they make the same point you attempt to make here?

"I believe you should donate whatever you do for free for the next
several months."

How would this not be problematic for a small business?

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

"Price is actually no factor in piracy..." spoken by
Mike Brannigan

"But I'm not insulting people. I'm insulting Linux Loonies..."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

"No, I'm not sure. I was just making fun of Chad's typo."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

More great quotes here:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

[Dale]

We have a social welfare system in the United States that, while being
pretty much a complete failure and disaster, still provides enough food
assistance to our poor that stealing a loaf of bread to feed starving
children is never required.

I do agree that poverty is growing out of control and that it is only
getting worse but then, when I am paying for my groceries, I see people
using a welfare food card while wearing $100 tennis shoes while I have never
owned a pair of tennis shoes that even cost $50. Before the electronic
transfer method of handling food assistance, food-stamps could be purchased
for ten cents on the dollar outside of any liquor store in any big city in
the country.

I did not say there are no children starving and in need of a loaf of bread.
I said that it is personal choices that create that situation.

And, to set the record straight (man, I am afraid I'll regret this - but
doing it anyway - how's that for poor personal judgment?) I have always been
a devoted Republican, having, before this year, never voted for anyone not a
Republican in a national election in my life. Considering the current state
of affairs related to the complete dismissal of the U.S. Constitution, our
personal liberties, personal privacy, the selling of our government to
Halliburton, the selling of the FDA to the beef lobby, I will probably never
again, as long as I live, vote for another Republican.

So, you're pretty much wrong on every count but thanks for your comments.

Dale

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Irrelevant, since it would be problematic for every business, small and
large.

It is noted you seem to have ignored the fact Microsoft and Bill Gates do
give away a great deal.
Apparently you do not approve because it is not in the precise format to
suit whatever you think they should.
However no one can tell them what to do with their property.
Just like you came up with a convenient excuse to excuse your "small
business" from the standards you try to impose on others.
Perhaps there are some that feel you do not donate enough to HFH and you
should ALSO contribute time and $ to another organization.
If you fail to abide to their desires, perhaps they could bad mouth your dad
as you do Microsoft.
Both of course are unjustified unless the rights of each are ignored.

Of course you also seem to ignore there are shareholders worldwide expecting
and demanding something for their investment.
Bill Gates and others are answerable to them and not to you, unless you are
a share holder in Microsoft.