"Frankenbuilds": the monster is dying...

[Richard Urban]

Alias,

What you said doesn't make sense. When Windows Defender first came out I saw
quite a few posts in the Windows XP newsgroups by people who downloaded a
"free" program from Kazaa. People were even downloading Firefox from Kazaa.

Why? They thought they had beat the system and were getting something for
free.

If a person has the lack of moral turpitude and is a thief, he will steal no
matter "what" the price.

I applaud Microsoft for finally taking a stand against this practice and I
wish them success.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

The ONLY reasons his foundation exists are for tax purposes and to assuage
his conscience for being so filthy rich.

And you *KNOW* this how. Did he tell you personally that he did this. You
really should say when something you are about to say is an OPINION, and not
fact - which you could not remotely profess to know.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Dale]

What they were getting was a PC full of spyware.

Alias,

What you said doesn't make sense. When Windows Defender first came out I
saw quite a few posts in the Windows XP newsgroups by people who
downloaded a "free" program from Kazaa. People were even downloading
Firefox from Kazaa.

Why? They thought they had beat the system and were getting something for
free.

If a person has the lack of moral turpitude and is a thief, he will steal
no matter "what" the price.

I applaud Microsoft for finally taking a stand against this practice and I
wish them success.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Colin Nash [MVP]]

So who/what are the special groups of people who should get Vista for free
then?

 

[Alias]

Alias,

What you said doesn't make sense. When Windows Defender first came out I
saw quite a few posts in the Windows XP newsgroups by people who
downloaded a "free" program from Kazaa. People were even downloading
Firefox from Kazaa.

Why? They thought they had beat the system and were getting something
for free.

If a person has the lack of moral turpitude and is a thief, he will
steal no matter "what" the price.

I applaud Microsoft for finally taking a stand against this practice and
I wish them success.

You sure have a cynical viewpoint towards your fellow man. So does MS.
No wonder you like to get in bed with them.

Alias

 

[Alias]

And you *KNOW* this how.

Educated guess. You think he does it because he cares? LOL!

Did he tell you personally that he did this.
You really should say when something you are about to say is an OPINION,
and not fact - which you could not remotely profess to know.

If I wrote it, it ain't your opinion but mine. High School English.
People who use IMO are being redundant because it's *obviously* their
opinion because THEY WROTE IT!

Harrrrrrrrumph!

Alias

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"I also believe.."
All fine and good.
Everyone is free to determine the price of goods and services they provide.
I believe you should donate whatever you do for free for the next several
months.
You believe others should give products away, now you should give away your
labors.

Also, contrary to popular belief, the buyer and not the seller sets the
price.
Very simply if the price is to high, the buyers will not buy.
Since Vista is not an essential item, it is in the buyers control to
determine if they are willing to pay the price.

"I also believe that vista should have been given for free..."
Kind of difficult since you write in past tense of a product not yet
released publically in most markets.
Do you have a cite that says Microsoft will not give any of Vista away?
Or is it just another assumption of yours?

 

[Dave Balcom]

}> I'd really like to own a Mercedes but I am not going to steal one just
}> because I think they charge too much for them. After all, Chevrolet
}> sells their cars for 25% of the cost of a Mercedes so Mercedes is making
}> too much money. I can't afford a Mercedes so I drive a Chevrolet.
}
}Bad comparison. You can't compare intellectual property with real
}property. You can't download a car.

Not really that bad of a comparison but it was too broad. What if
Mercedes had a monopoly and was the ONLY car maker that could license
aftermarket parts (i.e. software)? Sure, you could drive a smaller
company car like a Chevy but it couldn't use Goodyear tires, or Pioneer
stereos. That is the situation. Through savvy marketing MS positioned
itself as the major OS in the world. Sure, there are other smaller
players like Linux but the major software vendors support primarily
Windows. I know the Linux supporters will disagree as there is open
source software out there to do just about anything you want to do, but
this is aimed at the masses and not the enthusiasts...

Based on sheer volume, MS could charge less per license and still line
their coffers on their massive user base. It looks like simple corporate
greed to me...

 

[Dave Balcom]

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:34:23 -0500, "Richard Urban"

}I applaud Microsoft for finally taking a stand against this practice and I
}wish them success.

As do I but do you really think success at reducing piracy will lead to
lower consumer prices? The only way to force a company to lower their
prices is to create competition. I don't see that happening any time
soon...

 

[Nina DiBoy]

Responding here, but applies to entirity of post. Your perspective is
somewhat distorted. Thievery is thievery and cannot be justified by high
prices, business practices or anything else. It matters not that the
'thief' feels wronged by those he steals from. It's still stealing,
period. No amount of 'reasoning' can change that reality.
Self-justification is a tool used by the unjustifiable.

This also could be the perverbial 'slippery slope'. For instance, if you
have something for sale (intellectual or material is incidental), and I
feel the price is too high, do I have the right to steal it from you?
You'll say no, but, adopting your standards, it is *my* perception that
matters and I will steal it from you because you don't market it the way
I feel you should. Beware that you do not become a victim of those who
adopt your philosophy.

Bottomline:

There is no justification for stealing. It's not about the actions of
those being stolen from. It's about the character of the thief.

mxh

Correct me Alias if I am wrong, but I don't think that Alias is trying
to justify people pirating the software. How I understand Alias's post
is there would be less pirating going on if the prices for Vista weren't
so outragiously high.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

"Price is actually no factor in piracy..." spoken by
Mike Brannigan

"But I'm not insulting people. I'm insulting Linux Loonies..."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

"No, I'm not sure. I was just making fun of Chad's typo."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

More great quotes here:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

[Nina DiBoy]

Follow the thread. You actually said nothing of the kind. You
responded to my question to MicroFox about which special groups should
be given Vista for free.

MicroFox:
"I also believe that vista should have been given for free to some
special groups of people, that do not have the money to buy it..."

Dale:
"Special groups of people like whom?"

Alias:
"Most of the planet cannot afford Vista."

Dale:
"Most of the planet can not afford a car either but that doesn't mean
Mercedes should give them away."

*sitting higher in the saddle*

The only thing this proves is you can't keep track of who you are
replying to. Microfox said, "I also believe that vista should have been
given for free to some special groups of people, that do not have the
money to buy it...", not Alias.

Please, do try to keep up.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

"Price is actually no factor in piracy..." spoken by
Mike Brannigan

"But I'm not insulting people. I'm insulting Linux Loonies..."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

"No, I'm not sure. I was just making fun of Chad's typo."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

More great quotes here:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

[mxh]

You misunderstand. I do not condone or justify stealing.

Indeed I do. Perhaps it was, in part, your statement:

">> Sorry, but your imposed morality is besides the point."

I am merely telling you why it happens, not if it's morally OK or not.
Another example would be cocaine. If the price for cocaine in Colombia
were the same as New York, the smugglers would go out of business.

Your insights not withstanding, MS seems to have done OK. And while no
empire stands forever, it doesn't appear that they are going to collapse in
the near future. I'm almost positive that the decisions they've made
regarding Piracy or anything else concerning MS has been well thought out.
Perhaps, though, if you write them a letter, they'll recognize the error of
their thinking. So far, it's only brought in billions.

 

[mxh]

Educated guess. You think he does it because he cares? LOL!


If I wrote it, it ain't your opinion but mine. High School English. People
who use IMO are being redundant because it's *obviously* their opinion
because THEY WROTE IT!

Actually, high school english would dictate that 'IMO' distinguishes a
statement of opinion that otherwise seems to be written as fact. For
instance, your statement:


">>> The ONLY reasons his foundation exists are for tax purposes and to
is written as a statement of fact, *not* as an opinion. Your assertion that
an opinion is an opinion because "THEY WROTE IT!" is incorrect and shows
that you failed to think it through before posting it. After all, people are
not limited to writing only opinions, are they. They *can* post facts, can
they not? Including the acronym IMO may seem redundant to you, but including
it may have made you appear less arrogant and therefore less ignorant.


mxh

 

[mxh]

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:34:23 -0500, "Richard Urban"

}I applaud Microsoft for finally taking a stand against this practice and
I
}wish them success.

As do I but do you really think success at reducing piracy will lead to
lower consumer prices? The only way to force a company to lower their
prices is to create competition. I don't see that happening any time
soon...

I can't speak for the timeline, but MS *will* have viable competition at
some point. It's the concept of the invetiably cheaper and better built
mouse trap coupled with the principal that no one stays on top forever. It
is competition that promotes quality and reasonably priced products.

mxh

 

[Nina DiBoy]

"I also believe.."
All fine and good.
Everyone is free to determine the price of goods and services they provide.
I believe you should donate whatever you do for free for the next
several months.

My dad does this. He is a carpenter and donates his time and efforts
for free to habitat for humanity. I volunteer with him. It's really
not a problem for us to do like you make it out to be.

You believe others should give products away, now you should give away
your labors.

See above.

Also, contrary to popular belief, the buyer and not the seller sets the
price.

Supply and demand. The seller will go with the highest price the market
will support where there will still be a demand from consumers for their
product. In the case of a de facto monopoly like MS, they unfortunately
can get away with highway robbery because many consumers only have one
choice.

Very simply if the price is to high, the buyers will not buy.
Since Vista is not an essential item, it is in the buyers control to
determine if they are willing to pay the price.

See above.

"I also believe that vista should have been given for free..."
Kind of difficult since you write in past tense of a product not yet
released publically in most markets.
Do you have a cite that says Microsoft will not give any of Vista away?
Or is it just another assumption of yours?

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:

"Price is actually no factor in piracy..." spoken by
Mike Brannigan

"But I'm not insulting people. I'm insulting Linux Loonies..."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

"No, I'm not sure. I was just making fun of Chad's typo."
spoken by Mike <[email protected]>

More great quotes here:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

 

[Dale]

I agree it is corporate greed. They are not pricing their products based on
production costs, add a reasonable profit, and you have a selling price.
Their model is, as is most of the corporate world, how much will the market
bear.

And since most corporations price their products using that same philosophy,
I guess you really shouldn't pay for anything. Steal everything.

There is one reason that software, music, videos, and other intellectual
property get stolen more than everything else: you can do it in the privacy
of your home and no one knows. It's still stealing.

Dale

 

[Dale]

Which can also be a significant difference in a slander or libel case: did
someone state their opinion (free speech)? or did they knowingly make false
statements, presented as facts?

While I am not a lawyer, I have watched Perry Mason and enough
talking-head-lawyers - and have pursued a libel case against an ex-employer
once - to say that it is my opinion that in the first case no one can stop
you from stating your opinion. In the second case, while the burden of
proof is on the offended party, if that proof can be established, the
accused could be found liable for libel - or slander - as appropriate. Back
to the first case, if the accused is stating his opinion, clearly as his
opinion, then the accused could stand on his constitutional free speech
rights. Of course, if the offended party could prove that a statement of
opinion was in fact not the accused's opinion, and that the accused knew it
was an untrue statement when making the statement, the cover of "in my
opinion" would hold no water. That's my opinion.

I know we have a real attorney or two reading the group but in what is, in
my opinion, our very litigious world, they may not want to be found in the
position of giving legal advice in a news group - in my opinion.

Dale

 

[Richard Urban]

Greed!

I read somewhere that Microsoft had thousands of people (lets assume for a
number, 2000) working on Vista. Now, lets assume $200,000 per year per
engineer and programmer. that is 200,000 x 2000 = $400,000,000 per year. It
took 5 years to bring to market. That is $400,000,000 x 5 = 2 Billion
dollars.

That is simply for personnel costs. Now, add to that expense benefits for 5
years which most estimate at about 1/3 of the salary. Then add the equipment
they had to purchase for testing for those people. The electricity, property
costs (whether they own the building or rent) etc., etc.

What's the proposed life span of Vista. Didn't they say that we would not
have to wait more than 3 years for the next O/S? I think I read that. So,
Microsoft has to clear that 2 billion plus dollars (just for the O/S - not
even considering Office) in three years. Plus, they would like to make a
profit on the 5 years time that each of these individuals put into the O/S.

What do you think they should sell the operating system for?


--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Alias]

Indeed I do. Perhaps it was, in part, your statement:

">> Sorry, but your imposed morality is besides the point."

Morality *is* besides the point and distracts from the discussion.

Your insights not withstanding, MS seems to have done OK.

So has the Mob, the Colombian Cartel, Hugo Chavez and the owners of
McDonald's. That doesn't make someone respectworthy unless your god is
the Almighty Dollar. Where's your morality now, Mother Teresa?

And while no
empire stands forever, it doesn't appear that they are going to collapse
in the near future. I'm almost positive that the decisions they've made
regarding Piracy or anything else concerning MS has been well thought
out. Perhaps, though, if you write them a letter, they'll recognize the
error of their thinking. So far, it's only brought in billions.

So money = goodness/empire/rule the world/your HERO?

Indeed.

Sorry, but it appears you will never get it but thanks for playing.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Correct me Alias if I am wrong, but I don't think that Alias is trying
to justify people pirating the software. How I understand Alias's post
is there would be less pirating going on if the prices for Vista weren't
so outragiously high.

Like mxh, the pirates rate success in profits. It's amazing; he's
looking in the mirror and doesn't even know it.

Alias