XP slowdown + best 5 1/4" bay HD caddy please :-)

[RJK]

Sorry for possibly OT:'ing again but, it takes sooooo long trawling around
for hardware on websites and reviews, and there's bound to be kind soul in
here who knows all about hard-disk caddy's / removable hard-disk bays.

....little bit of background...
I just know that I'm going to flatten this system soon ! It was like
greased lightening after its' fresh install, with new motherboard and cpu
and SATA hd's early last year. I've never pinned down what's slowing it
down - I've been looking for that, on and off, ever since. I repair
installed my XP Home ed. a few weeks ago, and dragged it back up to
scratch - still no sign of that breathtaking responsiveness that was only
there for its' first few weeks - last year. That's not to say it's slow -
it's pretty responsive, ...and quite useable, ...and reliable, ...and it is
VERY robust. ....but, ...I keep thinking I would like to rearrange the
innards of my old Lian-Li PC-60 slightly so that my boot hd is in a hd
caddy, which I can yank it out, and install from scratch onto a new hd, in a
much more gradual and methodical fashion, at my leisure, over a period of
days, and a few weeks maybe, whilst retaining "this" XP Home ed.
installation for "normal" use, until I can permanently move, to my more
"methodically built" XP Home ed. paltform. I really would like to pin-down,
where the "slow-down" occurs.
(PleeeeeeZ no EULA lectures...
I've spent considerable time, in bits, looking into this for several months.
I keep an eye on running processes, hd bus mastering is working lovely i.e.
hd transfer speed is excellent, I've looked, in detail, into every bios
option, KB869256 didn't solve it, I've pruned out Windows services several
times, rather I've "preened" my windows ....I digress....
Lian-Li removeable IDE hd-bay/hd caddies are quite expensive when I
last spotted them on a site somewhere, a long time ago, and I don't know if
they make SATA ones nowadays, ...I guess they do. ...and I don't want the
cheaper plastic ones for obvious reasons, so does anyone know for
half-decent quality hd bays and caddies ?

TIA

regards, Richard

 

[R. McCarty]

You may be working from a false assumption. Windows is a platform,
it's what you load on it that tends to slow the system down. It's really
unfortunate that the Urban Myth persists that "Windows just slows
down over time". Using a tray to have an alternate XP setup is avoiding
the real issue. You're better off adopting an aggressive imaging process
that allows you to restore a system to a previous state than using an
alternate disk setup. Take images after the initial install and then on a
regular schedule. If you get the itch to "Start Fresh" just recover the
image from the initial install state.

A Windows machine is always going to run faster after the initial install
( Less workload = Faster Performance ). Every program you add has
the potential to load Services and Startups and Watchdog apps. The
same effect can happen using certain hardware and it's support software.

 

[Elaine]

I'd "flatten" YOU if you were in reach.

Come know Uncle Grumpy.

You know you wouldn’t have the bottle for that would you?

That’s the reason you insult people who can’t get back at you on here, isn’t
it?

Easy to punch when you can’t be punched back as you would be face to face.

Grumpy old cowardly fool.

I just know that I'm going to flatten this system soon !

[snip of some really unreadable gibberish]

I'd "flatten" YOU if you were in reach.

Did your GED require that you know about paragraphing??

 

[Anna]

Richard:
I'll just address my comments to that portion of your query re removable
hard drives, i.e., mobile racks.

We have been using removable hard drives for a considerable number of years
and we strongly recommend their use in desktop PCs whenever one or more
available 5 1/4" bays are available. I assume you're generally familiar with
their use so I won't go into their enormous advantages here. Suffice to say
that once you begin working with removable hard drives your only regret is
that you didn't employ them sooner.

We've used and/or had experience with a wide variety of the mobile
racks/removable trays (caddies) over the years from the relatively cheap
plastic models to the more expensive all-aluminum ones. By & large they've
all pretty much proven to be day-in day-out reliable. Frankly it didn't seem
to matter much whether these mobile racks cost $10 or $75. They all seemed
to do the job reliably.

In recent years the computer shop I was formerly associated with used the
Lian Li models for PATA HDDs - particularly the RH-32 or RH-42 models (both
all-aluminum). They performed very well. I recall we had ordered the RH-42
models in bulk @ $20. I suppose they're more costly nowadays. Lian Li also
manufactures mobile racks designed for SATA HDDs so if you're interested in
all-aluminum models you may want to look into those models.

For nearly the past two years we've been using (and recommending) the Athena
MR-125 mobile rack for SATA HDDs. It's an all-plastic model (available in
beige and black) but has proven very reliable. Sells for only about $20 at
newegg - see
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817123302

One of features we like about this rack is that it doesn't have a keylock
like most mobile racks. A simple lever device makes it simple to insert or
remove the removable tray without a key. We find this feature most
agreeable. The Athena also has a bottom-mounted 80 mm fan that's
whisper-quiet, another nice feature. So you may want to look into this rack
even if it is all plastic.

There are, of course, many many mobile racks to choose from. Newegg carries
quite a few. You may also want to undertake a Google search to peruse the
various models.

But one way or another go that route if you can. You'll never regret it.
Anna



O

 

[smlunatick]

Sorry for possibly OT:'ing again but, it takes sooooo long trawling around
for hardware on websites and reviews, and there's bound to be kind soul in
here who knows all about hard-disk caddy's / removable hard-disk bays.

...little bit of background...
I just know that I'm going to flatten this system soon !  It was like
greased lightening after its' fresh install, with new motherboard and cpu
and SATA hd's early last year.  I've never pinned down what's slowing it
down -  I've been looking for that, on and off, ever since.  I repair
installed my XP Home ed. a few weeks ago, and dragged it back up to
scratch - still no sign of that breathtaking responsiveness that was only
there for its' first few weeks - last year.  That's not to say it's slow-
it's pretty responsive, ...and quite useable, ...and reliable, ...and it is
VERY robust.   ....but, ...I keep thinking I would like to rearrange the
innards of my old Lian-Li PC-60 slightly so that my boot hd is in a hd
caddy, which I can yank it out, and install from scratch onto a new hd, ina
much more gradual and methodical fashion, at my leisure, over a period of
days, and a few weeks maybe, whilst retaining "this" XP Home ed.
installation for "normal" use, until I can permanently move, to my more
"methodically built" XP Home ed. paltform.  I really would like to pin-down,
where the "slow-down" occurs.
(PleeeeeeZ no EULA lectures...
I've spent considerable time, in bits, looking into this for several months.
I keep an eye on running processes, hd bus mastering is working lovely i.e..
hd transfer speed is excellent, I've looked, in detail, into every bios
option, KB869256 didn't solve it, I've pruned out Windows services several
times, rather I've "preened" my windows ....I digress....
      Lian-Li removeable IDE hd-bay/hd caddies are quite expensive when I
last spotted them on a site somewhere, a long time ago, and I don't know if
they make SATA ones nowadays, ...I guess they do.  ...and I don't want the
cheaper plastic ones for obvious reasons, so does anyone know for
half-decent quality hd bays and caddies ?

TIA

regards, Richard

Hard drive caddies are just not useful for any Windows XP boot drive.
XP's Product Activation is the core problem. PA always check the boot
drive configuration and if there are significant changes, PA
determine the XP as not Genuine. I had been using caddies with
Windows prior to XP and would recommend these for "developing"
systrem. Microsoft's Product Activation has cause this to not be an
option. Since PA is checking the configuration every time, then you
would probably need ONE XP per disk caddy.

Using caddies for additional drives can still be done (??)

 

[Anna]

Richard:
I'll just address my comments to that portion of your query re removable
hard drives, i.e., mobile racks.

We have been using removable hard drives for a considerable number of and
we strongly recommend their use in desktop PCs whenever one or more
available 5 1/4" bays are available. I assume you're generally familiar
with their use so I won't go into their enormous advantages here. Suffice
to say that once you begin working with removable hard drives your only
regret is that you didn't employ them sooner.

We've used and/or had experience with a wide variety of the mobile
racks/removable trays (caddies) over the years from the relatively cheap
plastic models to the more expensive all-aluminum ones. By & large they've
all pretty much proven to be day-in day-out reliable. Frankly it didn't
seem to matter much whether these mobile racks cost $10 or $75. They all
seemed to do the job reliably.

In recent years the computer shop I was formerly associated with used the
Lian Li models for PATA HDDs - particularly the RH-32 or RH-42 models
(both) all-aluminum). They performed very well. I recall we had ordered
the > RH-42 > models in bulk @ $20. I suppose they're more costly
nowadays. Lian Li also manufactures mobile racks designed for SATA HDDs so
if you're interested in all-aluminum models you may want to look into
those models.

For nearly the past two years we've been using (and recommending) the
Athena MR-125 mobile rack for SATA HDDs. It's an all-plastic model
(available in beige and black) but has proven very reliable. Sells for
only about $20 at newegg - see
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817123302

One of features we like about this rack is that it doesn't have a keylock
like most mobile racks. A simple lever device makes it simple to insert or
remove the removable tray without a key. We find this feature most
agreeable. The Athena also has a bottom-mounted 80 mm fan that's
whisper-quiet, another nice feature. So you may want to look into this
rack even if it is all plastic.

There are, of course, many many mobile racks to choose from. Newegg
carries quite a few. You may also want to undertake a Google search to
peruse the various models.

But one way or another go that route if you can. You'll never regret it.
Anna

Hard drive caddies are just not useful for any Windows XP boot drive.
XP's Product Activation is the core problem. PA always check the boot
drive configuration and if there are significant changes, PA
determine the XP as not Genuine. I had been using caddies with
Windows prior to XP and would recommend these for "developing"
systrem. Microsoft's Product Activation has cause this to not be an
option. Since PA is checking the configuration every time, then you
would probably need ONE XP per disk caddy.

Using caddies for additional drives can still be done (??)


Richard (and others who may be interested):
Contrary to the comments & advice given by "smlunatick" above, removable
hard drives (mobile racks containing removable trays/caddies) are an
extroardinary useful hardware arrangement for most desktop PCs.

The enormous flexibility - not to say peace-of-mind one gains from this
hardware configuration cannot be overestimated. Merely recommending these
devices only for "developing" systems (whatever that means!) borders on the
absurd.

Just one example relative to the above comments concerning the XP Product
Activation process...

There is absolutely no problem involving product activation issues when, for
example, a user would clone the contents of his or her internal (or
removable) system/boot HDD to a removable HDD. The removable HDD as the
recipient of the clone would be bootable and functional in all respects
without the requirement of further product activation.

If anyone is interested I can provide details re the installation of
removable HDDs and their advantages in some detail. Bear in mind that these
devices are designed for desktop PCs - not laptops/notebooks.
Anna

 

[Alias]

Hard drive caddies are just not useful for any Windows XP boot drive.
XP's Product Activation is the core problem. PA always check the boot
drive configuration and if there are significant changes, PA
determine the XP as not Genuine. I had been using caddies with
Windows prior to XP and would recommend these for "developing"
systrem. Microsoft's Product Activation has cause this to not be an
option. Since PA is checking the configuration every time, then you
would probably need ONE XP per disk caddy.

Using caddies for additional drives can still be done (??)


Richard (and others who may be interested):
Contrary to the comments & advice given by "smlunatick" above, removable
hard drives (mobile racks containing removable trays/caddies) are an
extroardinary useful hardware arrangement for most desktop PCs.

The enormous flexibility - not to say peace-of-mind one gains from this
hardware configuration cannot be overestimated. Merely recommending these
devices only for "developing" systems (whatever that means!) borders on the
absurd.

Just one example relative to the above comments concerning the XP Product
Activation process...

There is absolutely no problem involving product activation issues when, for
example, a user would clone the contents of his or her internal (or
removable) system/boot HDD to a removable HDD. The removable HDD as the
recipient of the clone would be bootable and functional in all respects
without the requirement of further product activation.

If anyone is interested I can provide details re the installation of
removable HDDs and their advantages in some detail. Bear in mind that these
devices are designed for desktop PCs - not laptops/notebooks.
Anna

Where can these removable things be bought?

Alias

 

[RJK]

Hello,

I appreciate your advice. I have actually tried, several times during the
past couple of years, using exactly the approach you described. However,
I've repeatedly found that because I need a fully functional and
multi-purpose PC at all times, it never worked out very well.
Despite always having, on 2nd hd, a recent Norton Ghost image of my main
boot-drive, and indeed - imaging my boot-drive before making changes to it,
there "never" seems to be a suitable, or appropriate, time to restore an
image. i.e. there never seems to be time to make thorough checks and tests
to determine if recent changes, (including app. installs), have "slowed" it
down.

This is why it has become attractive to me, to gradually, and more
methodically build up my Windows platform on a 2nd hd, and then eventually
stay with it, and wipe the "former" hd.

regards, Richard

 

[RJK]

Thanks Anna,

As I just explained to R. McCarty, I have tried frequently imaging my main
boot-drive, in case changes to my Windows platform, or an application
installation became responsible for "slowing" the machine down but, there
never seems time to do the necessary checks and "digging," ...benchmark
tests etc. to make sure that recent changes, or an app. install for example,
has not excessively "slowed" it down.
....And indeed, there never seems to be an approriate time to restore one of
thosee Ghost images !!

This is why, during the past few months, I've been feeling an increasing
urge to rearrange the innards of my PC slightly so that I can pull out my
main working boot-drive, now and again, and bung in a new drive which can be
"built up" in a much more methodical fashion.

Thanks for the Lian-Li removable drive bay part No's. ...I tried plastic
ones in the past and was never very happy with them, I think I'll plump for
the Lian-Li ones.

regards, Richard

 

[Anna]

Thanks Anna,

As I just explained to R. McCarty, I have tried frequently imaging my main
boot-drive, in case changes to my Windows platform, or an application
installation became responsible for "slowing" the machine down but, there
never seems time to do the necessary checks and "digging," ...benchmark
tests etc. to make sure that recent changes, or an app. install for
example, has not excessively "slowed" it down.
...And indeed, there never seems to be an approriate time to restore one
of thosee Ghost images !!

This is why, during the past few months, I've been feeling an increasing
urge to rearrange the innards of my PC slightly so that I can pull out my
main working boot-drive, now and again, and bung in a new drive which can

Thanks for the Lian-Li removable drive bay part No's. ...I tried plastic
ones in the past and was never very happy with them, I think I'll plump
for the Lian-Li ones.

regards, Richard

Richard:
We've been working with removable hard drives for about the past 10 years
and during that time we've worked with dozens of different makes & models of
those devices installed in hundreds of different PC desktop systems. As I've
previously indicated by & large we've found these removable HDDs in their
mobile racks to be most reliable. Our preference has been, wherever
possible, to install *two* removable HDDs in one's desktop PC for the added
flexibility this hardware arrangement yields, but having just one removable
HDD (in addition to an internal HDD) also works just fine.

So perhaps you just ran into a bit of bad luck with the models you
previously used. As I've indicated, for about the past two years or so we've
been working nearly exclusively with mobile racks designed for SATA HDDs -
particularly the Athena model I mentioned above - and even though it's an
all-plastic device it's worked most reliably. We've installed dozens of them
in various machines. We also worked for a short time with the Athena model
designed for PATA HDDs and found that model similarly reliable.

Lian Li, of course, is noted for their quality products and as I mentioned
we have worked with various models of their mobile rack line designed for
PATA HDDs. Just one thing you might want to consider. Check out the length
of the rack to ensure that there won't be any problem in terms of the rack
butting up against your motherboard. Some of the Lian Li racks are quite
long as compared with other racks primarily because a small fan is attached
to the far end of the rack (at least with some of their models that we
used). Depending upon the depth of your computer case this could be a
problem because of the motherboard's placement in the desktop case.
Anna

 

[Brett I. Holcomb]

I use Kingwin available from NewEgg.com. They have various models for
various interfaces including SATA which I use.
snipped

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Lian-Li removeable IDE hd-bay/hd caddies are quite expensive
when I last spotted them on a site somewhere, a long time ago, and
I don't know if they make SATA ones nowadays, ...I guess they do. ...and I
don't want the cheaper plastic ones for obvious reasons, so
does anyone know for half-decent quality hd bays and caddies ?

Check out the mobile racks by Kingwin, both in IDE and SATA
form: http://kingwin.com/mobileracks.asp
They're aluminum and have cooling fans. You can also buy just
the tray so you can have several HDs to slide into a single rack.
Search Google for prices, using "Kingwin" and the model no.

*TimDaniels*