XP Recovery


O

OldGuy

Laptop with XP Pro latest updates.
Trying to install most recent updates and system hung.
Not sure if it was the Windows updates or what.
I tried to shut down stuff with Process Explorer and boot but it would
not boot.

Powered off. Then ...

Normal boot gets to the Windows Logo and scanning indicator but no
further.

Previously saved Windows restore point will not get past the Windows
logo and scanning thingy.

Safe boot (no other options) gets to Windows desktop OK after a long
churn (but little disk activity).

Tried ...
Recovery disk is a non-recovery console type disk that only does a
complete re-install.

A different XP Pro SP2 disk boots to Recovery Console but says there is
no hard disk there.
This XP Pro disk has the option of Automatic Recover but it asks for a
floppy. Huh? No other options.

So ...
It will take two days to reinstall from scratch so that option is last
on the list.

Yes, I do have a Macrium Reflect backup that is about two weeks old
however I have made some extensive additions etc since then.

1) So if I can get to Safe Mode desktop then what?
I am kind of blind at this point never having to do this before.

2) What other options do I have without rebuilding from scratch?
Any free fixers out there or ???

I thought maybe that it was the MBR so I was trying to use the Recovery
Console to run fixmbr. If I get to the Windows Logo or get to safe
mode desktop does that not mean that the disk boot is OK?

Suggestions please.
 
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M

Michael T.

If you can ever get to Safe Mode, I would try System Restore. Although you
suggested it may not work.

If that fails, I would next try System File Checker after inserting your
Windows XP CD.

1) Insert your WinXP installation CD

2) Then go to Start > Run and type
sfc /scannow
click OK

For more detail visit:
http://www.updatexp.com/support-files/scannow-sfc.pdf
 
K

Ken

OldGuy said:
Laptop with XP Pro latest updates.
Trying to install most recent updates and system hung.
Not sure if it was the Windows updates or what.
I tried to shut down stuff with Process Explorer and boot but it would
not boot.

Powered off. Then ...

Normal boot gets to the Windows Logo and scanning indicator but no further.

Previously saved Windows restore point will not get past the Windows
logo and scanning thingy.

Safe boot (no other options) gets to Windows desktop OK after a long
churn (but little disk activity).

Tried ...
Recovery disk is a non-recovery console type disk that only does a
complete re-install.

A different XP Pro SP2 disk boots to Recovery Console but says there is
no hard disk there.
This XP Pro disk has the option of Automatic Recover but it asks for a
floppy. Huh? No other options.

So ...
It will take two days to reinstall from scratch so that option is last
on the list.

Yes, I do have a Macrium Reflect backup that is about two weeks old
however I have made some extensive additions etc since then.

1) So if I can get to Safe Mode desktop then what?
I am kind of blind at this point never having to do this before.

2) What other options do I have without rebuilding from scratch?
Any free fixers out there or ???

I thought maybe that it was the MBR so I was trying to use the Recovery
Console to run fixmbr. If I get to the Windows Logo or get to safe mode
desktop does that not mean that the disk boot is OK?

Suggestions please.
Have you tried to run CHKDSK from Safe Mode? That might help.
 
A

Andy

Laptop with XP Pro latest updates.

Trying to install most recent updates and system hung.

Not sure if it was the Windows updates or what.

I tried to shut down stuff with Process Explorer and boot but it would

not boot.



Powered off. Then ...



Normal boot gets to the Windows Logo and scanning indicator but no

further.



Previously saved Windows restore point will not get past the Windows

logo and scanning thingy.



Safe boot (no other options) gets to Windows desktop OK after a long

churn (but little disk activity).



Tried ...

Recovery disk is a non-recovery console type disk that only does a

complete re-install.



A different XP Pro SP2 disk boots to Recovery Console but says there is

no hard disk there.

This XP Pro disk has the option of Automatic Recover but it asks for a

floppy. Huh? No other options.



So ...

It will take two days to reinstall from scratch so that option is last

on the list.



Yes, I do have a Macrium Reflect backup that is about two weeks old

however I have made some extensive additions etc since then.



1) So if I can get to Safe Mode desktop then what?

I am kind of blind at this point never having to do this before.



2) What other options do I have without rebuilding from scratch?

Any free fixers out there or ???



I thought maybe that it was the MBR so I was trying to use the Recovery

Console to run fixmbr. If I get to the Windows Logo or get to safe

mode desktop does that not mean that the disk boot is OK?



Suggestions please.

I am pretty sure that if you re-install Windows, it will detect if it's already on your hard drive.

And you won't lose anything.

Andy
 
M

Michael T.

Miscellaneous other checks;

1. Look for clues in Event Viewer
%SystemRoot%\system32\eventvwr.msc /s

OR

2. Go to Start>Run>msconfig and temporarily disable (uncheck) all the
Startup items -- then reboot

OR

3. Go to Start>Run>msconfig and temporarily disable (uncheck) all
non-Microsoft Services -- then reboot.

OR

4. Temporarily create another User Account to see if it runs better.

OR

5. Use Task Manager (Processes tab) to see if any processes are hogging CPU
time.
 
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M

Michael T.

Have you run Disk Cleanup recently?
%SystemRoot%\system32\cleanmgr.exe

Or Disk Defragmenter?
%SystemRoot%\system32\dfrg.msc

Then there's always the old standby's when your system significantly slows
down.

Virus scan
Spyware scan (I prefer SuperAntiSpyware Free Edition)
http://www.superantispyware.com/download.html
Malwarebytes Anti-Malware
 
P

Paul

OldGuy said:
Update.

I ran full from boot checkdisk and there were no errors.

I finally go into windows xp pro desktop.

Once I get in, it seems to run OK.

BUT!!! every time I boot it takes ten or more minutes to get to the
first signs of the desktop.

It seems that the problem all along was that it was taking so much time
to get to the first signs of the desktop that I thought there was a
different problem.

So what apps might be doing something that intensive and taking so long
from boot until showing the desktop?
I look at process explorer and see no apps using CPU time once I get to
the desktop.
And what is important to note is that I see no disk activity during the
long boot-up.

Once I see the first sings of the desktop I see a lot of disk activity
for all the expected stuff that is starting up.

So what is going on???

If you think it is still booting, and not later in the process,
you could look for a copy of Bootvis. They suggest here, there
may be other solutions, but I suspect they're not as nice and
don't have the same objectives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootvis

Bootvis was discontinued a long time ago by Microsoft.

I can find a copy here (1.3.37.0). 968K

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/bootvis.html

Problems with bootvis:

1) May be OS Service Pack dependent.
2) Had a bug involving tracing problems with Pentium 4 HT processors.
Which implies it might not be threadsafe.
3) Had an issue with storage controllers/driver, something
along those lines. The last release may have been an attempt
to fix that.
4) An AV product, isn't likely to get along with it.
It's going to be hooked into places the AV won't like.
Antivirus products hate software which loads ahead of them
(implies an infection).

On the plus side, it has a nice looking graphical output.
Which probably puts later similar solutions to shame.

This is probably an idea that was doomed to be a maintenance
nightmare for Microsoft. Functions like this should be
built right into the OS, so they don't require "suspicious
hooking" to collect data. It would be OK for an OS to collect
data on each boot, but not do anything with the data unless
the user runs a viewer later.

I'm going to back up my system now, and give Bootvis a try :)
I'm at SP3, and Bootvis likely won't trace anything.

*******

If it was a startup item causing the problem,
you could disable it with Autoruns (Sysinternals).

You could also try booting into Safe Mode, and see if it is
any faster. That would cut out some drivers, as well as
other cruft.

*******

If it was a disk hardware problem, you could try HDTune free version
2.55 and check the SMART tab for bad signs (reallocated sectors).
But this would be pretty low down my list of stuff to try, if
there were no other signs the disk was in trouble.

Paul
 
J

jim

OldGuy said:
Update.

I ran full from boot checkdisk and there were no errors.

I finally go into windows xp pro desktop.

Once I get in, it seems to run OK.

BUT!!! every time I boot it takes ten or more minutes to get to the first
signs of the desktop.

It seems that the problem all along was that it was taking so much time
to get to the first signs of the desktop that I thought there was a different problem.

So what apps might be doing something that intensive and taking so long
from boot until showing the desktop?
I look at process explorer and see no apps using CPU time once I get to the desktop.
And what is important to note is that I see no disk activity during the long boot-up.

Once I see the first sings of the desktop I see a lot of disk activity
for all the expected stuff that is starting up.

So what is going on???



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: (e-mail address removed) ---

You have a program that is doing a boot time scan ?
 
B

Ben Myers

OldGuy said:
Laptop with XP Pro latest updates.
Trying to install most recent updates and system hung.
Not sure if it was the Windows updates or what.
I tried to shut down stuff with Process Explorer and boot but it would
not boot.
Powered off. Then ...
Normal boot gets to the Windows Logo and scanning indicator but no
further.
Previously saved Windows restore point will not get past the Windows
logo and scanning thingy.
Safe boot (no other options) gets to Windows desktop OK after a long
churn (but little disk activity).
Tried ...
Recovery disk is a non-recovery console type disk that only does a
complete re-install.
A different XP Pro SP2 disk boots to Recovery Console but says there is
no hard disk there.
This XP Pro disk has the option of Automatic Recover but it asks for a
floppy. Huh? No other options.
So ...
It will take two days to reinstall from scratch so that option is last
on the list.
Yes, I do have a Macrium Reflect backup that is about two weeks old
however I have made some extensive additions etc since then.
1) So if I can get to Safe Mode desktop then what?
I am kind of blind at this point never having to do this before.
2) What other options do I have without rebuilding from scratch?
Any free fixers out there or ???
I thought maybe that it was the MBR so I was trying to use the Recovery
Console to run fixmbr. If I get to the Windows Logo or get to safe
mode desktop does that not mean that the disk boot is OK?
Suggestions please.

Download and run a disk utility from the hard drive manufacturer. You may have to use a
DOS or self-booting version.

Seagate and Maxtor http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/seatools/
Samsung http://support-us.samsung.com/cyber...leshooting_fr.jsp?idx=42990&modelname=SV0411N

Ben
 
P

Paul

Paul said:
If you think it is still booting, and not later in the process,
you could look for a copy of Bootvis. They suggest here, there
may be other solutions, but I suspect they're not as nice and
don't have the same objectives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootvis

Bootvis was discontinued a long time ago by Microsoft.

I can find a copy here (1.3.37.0). 968K

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/bootvis.html

Well, I tested Bootvis, and it works :) It ran fine on
my WinXP Pro x32 SP3 machine.

There is some info on using it here, and it gave me
a hint I needed.

"USING BOOTVIS TO PROFILE THE BOOT PROCESS"

http://blogs.technet.com/b/sysinternals/archive/2002/08/12/452885.aspx

The first time you run the tool, it all seems to be automatic.
But there is a slight trick.

Install it.

Select BootVis from the Start menu.

A window opens. On the left are tick boxes. They control
the performance graphs. "Driver Delay" is not selected.
You basically tick the boxes you're interested in seeing
(so they fit visibly in the window). For example, in my
picture below, I turned off the disk activity graph.

From the menu, there is an option to start the tracing
process. If you select "Boot plus driver delay", then
in ten seconds the machine does a reboot, and it traces
general things, as well as driver delay.

On my first run, I selected just "Boot" rather than
"Boot plus driver delay". The tool automatically
decided to store the data log in the Program folder.
The idea is, the number on the file is supposed to increment,
for each boot time log you create. 1_1, 1_2, etc. Something
like that.

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Bootvis\TRACE_BOOT_1_1.BIN

But once I got the hint I needed, in that blog article,
I selected "Boot plus driver delay" (followed by an automatic
reboot in ten seconds). This was my second run. The file in
this case, rather than being ...1_2.BIN, ends up in an
entirely different directory, as in:

C:\Documents and Settings\username\TRACE_BOOT+DRIVERS_1_1.BIN

To read in this (now out of sight, out of mind) file, you
start Bootvis, go to Open, navigate to the folder, and
select the TRACE_BOOT+DRIVERS_1_1.BIN, and you can then
see your second run.

This is my output, for my WinXP machine. The tool doesn't
work for other OSes (apparently). And development stopped
in the WinXP era (at least, public versions).

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/5703/hql.gif

If you select "Boot plus driver delay" the very first time,
it's possible all you'll need is the one run, and the log
file (~60MB) will end up in the BootVis program folder.

Paul
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Michael T. said:
Miscellaneous other checks; []
5. Use Task Manager (Processes tab) to see if any processes are hogging CPU
time.
I suspect he can't start that until the problem is over.

I suspected HD problems too - and the BIOS HD check (first time I've
heard of one of those!) wouldn't show it, since it'd be corrected by the
in-drive electronics (unless the BIOS HD check has timeouts); you'd have
to use a manufacturer's probe, or at least something that interrogated
SMART. But since he's seeing little disc light activity, it seems
unlikely to be that (AFAICR, the disc light was mostly on on the failing
discs causing slow boot that I've experienced).

Only other thing I can think of would be some sort of networky thing -
it's trying to connect to something, and waiting ages before it gives
up. The fact that safe mode bypasses it supports this. But - although
I've seen such apparent hangs take a very long time, possibly minutes -
ten to fifteen minutes seems more than I'd expect from that, unless it's
doing several such (and doing them consecutively rather than
concurrently).

Hope you get it fixed - do tell us what it was if you do.

(Now off to get that bootvis thing [and to save a copy of your post
about it!], which looks very useful.)
 
D

Daave

BeeJ said:
MS Live Security Essentials is installed

Quite often, an AV program or suite hogs resources at boot up. However
once it runs through its initial bootup routine, everything settles
down. You might just want to always leave your PC on. To save power, you
can have it go to sleep (system standby) or even hibernate when not in
use for a specified period of time.

Another possibility is there is a resource fight. An example is having
multiple firewalls running. Or there might be remnants of an uninstalled
AV still churning (McAfee and Norton are big offenders).

Undetected malware is always a possibility.

Assuming no malware (that may or may not be an accurate assumption!) and
you can't determine a specific correctable reason, you can either go to
one of those "guided help" sites like Bleeping Computer or "flatten and
rebuild" by performing a Clean Install (which can be labor intensive if
done properly). But you might decide the advice in my first paragraph is
more pragmatic.
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

Thanks, saved for reference! Just one thing (no, two ...):

In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
Well, I tested Bootvis, and it works :) It ran fine on
my WinXP Pro x32 SP3 machine.

There is some info on using it here, and it gave me
a hint I needed.

"USING BOOTVIS TO PROFILE THE BOOT PROCESS"

http://blogs.technet.com/b/sysinternals/archive/2002/08/12/452885.aspx
[]
When I follow that link (Firefox), I get " TechNet Blogs > Sysinternals
Site Discussion > Volume 4, Number 2" - a page which doesn't contain the
string bootv, according to Firefox's search.

Oops - I've just scrolled through it, and it IS there, under the heading
you said: about four-fifths through. I had "Match case" ticked! Oops.
Turning _that_ off!

From the article:

"If you want to be able to see precisely what functions with drivers and
modules account for CPU time then open the Tools|Options dialog and
point BootVis at your installed Windows XP symbols. Next, ..."

I wondered what "point BootVis at your installed Windows XP symbols"
might mean. So I thought I'd better install in case it was obvious. (The
install apparently went fine, despite my saying no - four times - to it
wanting to connect to akamaitechnologies.)

So I ran it, and selected Tools|Options - but I'm still none the wiser
as to what "point BootVis at your installed Windows XP symbols" might
mean. Would you care to put this bear of little brain out of my misery?
 
D

dadiOH

BeeJ said:
Once it is up it seems to run just fine, it is just the
15 minute or longer boot with seemingly no disk activity
untill the desktop appears. All the hile it is booting
the Windows logo and scanning thingy is (the Kit lights)
keep on going.
Also sometimes shutting down it hangs. i waited 5
minutes and it just would not shut down. I have seen
this before and just do a power off. Usually booting
after that works just fine until the problem started it
boots but takes 15 or more minutes.

You said your XP install disk indicated that there is no hard drive; that
would indicate to me that the hard drive (and/or cables) is flaky or -
perhaps - that the power supply is bad.

The first thing I would do is change both data and power connections to the
drive. Secondly, if it still doesn't boot well, see if the XP install disk
now finds the drive. If so, do an "over the top" install of XP; if not, try
it with another drive. If still no joy, try another power supply (or the
drive in another computer).

If both drive and power supply are good then you need is an "over the top"
install of XP. An install, not "recovery". The install will/should find
the existing install and give you options.
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/operatingsystems/ss/instxprepair1.htm

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
 
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M

Michael T.

I should have mentioned in one of my earlier replies that I have heard of
HDDs passing chkdsk but failing Defrag (not running to completion).

Unless you've completely ruled out your HDD, I would recommend giving Disk
Defragmenter a try.
%SystemRoot%\system32\dfrg.msc

Footnote:
There's a discussion thread at the link below that might also offer some
ideas. The original poster's problem seems to have *some* similarities to
yours.

"Horribly slow boot time on XP Professional"
http://www.techspot.com/community/t...fessional-no-viruses-good-maintenance.171426/

Good luck.
 
P

Paul

J. P. Gilliver (John) said:
Thanks, saved for reference! Just one thing (no, two ...):

Well, I tested Bootvis, and it works :) It ran fine on
my WinXP Pro x32 SP3 machine.

There is some info on using it here, and it gave me
a hint I needed.

"USING BOOTVIS TO PROFILE THE BOOT PROCESS"

http://blogs.technet.com/b/sysinternals/archive/2002/08/12/452885.aspx
[]
When I follow that link (Firefox), I get " TechNet Blogs > Sysinternals
Site Discussion > Volume 4, Number 2" - a page which doesn't contain the
string bootv, according to Firefox's search.

Oops - I've just scrolled through it, and it IS there, under the heading
you said: about four-fifths through. I had "Match case" ticked! Oops.
Turning _that_ off!

From the article:

"If you want to be able to see precisely what functions with drivers and
modules account for CPU time then open the Tools|Options dialog and
point BootVis at your installed Windows XP symbols. Next, ..."

I wondered what "point BootVis at your installed Windows XP symbols"
might mean. So I thought I'd better install in case it was obvious. (The
install apparently went fine, despite my saying no - four times - to it
wanting to connect to akamaitechnologies.)

So I ran it, and selected Tools|Options - but I'm still none the wiser
as to what "point BootVis at your installed Windows XP symbols" might
mean. Would you care to put this bear of little brain out of my misery?[/QUOTE]

Microsoft slideshow on debugging, with command for downloading symbols.
I did this several years ago, and the download ends up being maybe 1.5GB
or so. Since I hardly ever need symbols, I moved it somewhere else.

http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/mcsp/servicedesk/symcheckFinal.wmv

I got a copy (3,177,983 bytes, not seek-able) of this (in a VM) by doing

mplayer -dumpstream -dumpfile symcheckFinal.wmv
mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/mcsp/servicedesk/symcheckFinal.wmv?MSWMExt=.asf

This is a screenshot of the above movie. If you're in a hurry, this
shows the slide with the command to get symbol tables.

http://imageshack.us/a/img542/7743/tp5.gif

I have the appropriate tool in:

C:\Program Files\Debugging Tools for Windows (x86)
symchk.exe

So I CD to that folder and run the command.

symchk /r c:\windows\system32 /s srv*c:\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols

and a new folder C:\symbols is created.

The C:\symbols folder is the one you want to "point to".

Given the number of "FAILED" messages I'm getting in the symchk
run, I wonder how complete the C:\symbols is going to be.

*******

When you compile a program -g, then symbols are included.
In the binary you might see a text string at the beginning
of the routine.

sqrt...(then some binary junk)

If you debug a program that has symbols, as you single step
it can tell you you're in sqrt() on line 23. Each clump of
instructions has a "line number".

But if you compile something stripped (to keep the file size
down), the symbols disappear.

...(then some binary junk)

I'm guessing in this case, the C:\symbols carries the
matching symbol information for the executables. So somehow,
the information on the Microsoft server, is matched up with
Microsoft executables in c:\windows\system32.

Developers ship stripped executables, to make it harder to
reverse engineer things (get hints from routine names). It
also reduces the file size.

Have fun downloading your symbols :)

Paul
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

[QUOTE="Paul said:
Thanks, saved for reference! Just one thing (no, two ...):
In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes: []
"USING BOOTVIS TO PROFILE THE BOOT PROCESS"
[]
So I ran it, and selected Tools|Options - but I'm still none the
wiser as to what "point BootVis at your installed Windows XP symbols"
might mean. Would you care to put this bear of little brain out of my
misery?

Microsoft slideshow on debugging, with command for downloading symbols.
I did this several years ago, and the download ends up being maybe 1.5GB
or so. Since I hardly ever need symbols, I moved it somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

I'm now very confused; remember that at my age the brain cells are dying
faster than they once were. I liked the screenshot you gave us of what
bootvis looks like, and thought I had a chance of understanding that -
so I downloaded the installer. I thought all I had to do was install and
run it. Now there's this video

that seems to talk about XP symbols. (Incidentally when I tried to
follow that link, Firefox opened Media Player, which said it couldn't
play it because of a network error or something; I eventually got it to
play - though with poor audio - by pasting the URL into VLC.)
I got a copy (3,177,983 bytes, not seek-able) of this (in a VM) by doing

mplayer -dumpstream -dumpfile symcheckFinal.wmv
mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/mcsp/servicedesk/symcheckFinal.wmv?MSWMExt=.asf

I tried that (using wmplayer - my system said it couldn't find mplayer);
the same media player popped up with the same error.
This is a screenshot of the above movie. If you're in a hurry, this
shows the slide with the command to get symbol tables.

http://imageshack.us/a/img542/7743/tp5.gif

Do I _need_ these "symbol tables" to run bootvis? If so, I fear I'm
going to give it up as a bad job - far too complicated for me.
 

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