Wireless networking dropping out

[Electric Monk]

I am running Windows XP at home with a wireless network. Sometimes it
drops out for a minute or so and sometimes only for a second. I
haven't been able to find out why so far, but am investigating.

In the meantime, is there a way to lenghten the amount of time
Windows
takes to register that there is no connection (and then disconnect
network apps like MSN etc) so that these shorter 1-second brown-outs
can be survived? Or isn't this controllable at my PC?

Any suggestions (besides "It's your router") on finding the source of
the drop-outs would also be appreciated. The strange thing is that the
signal strength is usually "very good" or "excellent" and then it
drops out.

Thanks,


Brett

 

[M.I.5¾]

I am running Windows XP at home with a wireless network. Sometimes it
drops out for a minute or so and sometimes only for a second. I
haven't been able to find out why so far, but am investigating.

In the meantime, is there a way to lenghten the amount of time
Windows
takes to register that there is no connection (and then disconnect
network apps like MSN etc) so that these shorter 1-second brown-outs
can be survived? Or isn't this controllable at my PC?

Any suggestions (besides "It's your router") on finding the source of
the drop-outs would also be appreciated. The strange thing is that the
signal strength is usually "very good" or "excellent" and then it
drops out.

I have found that my broadband line drops out for a minute or so quite
regularly. If your wireless network is configured as 'infrastructure mode',
then a drop out in the broadband connection will bring the whole network to
a halt (not true of every router). To avoid this, the network has to be
configured as 'ad hoc mode'.

 

[Electric Monk]

I have found that my broadband line drops out for a minute or so quite
regularly. If your wireless network is configured as 'infrastructure mode',
then a drop out in the broadband connection will bring the whole network to
a halt (not true of every router). To avoid this, the network has to be
configured as 'ad hoc mode'.

I've never heard of that. is that a setting on the pc or the router?

 

[frodo]

people don't realize that the wireless frequency is shared w/ cordless
phones, and microwave ovens often generate interferrence. If your drop
outs occur when either of these devices are in-use in your house then
that's the culprit. Sometime a neighbor's cordless phone can mess you up.
And some cordless phones don't even need to be in-use to cause issues,
just having them in the house can mess it up (better ones will shut down
xmissions when the phone is in the cradle). To verify, unplug from the
wall and remove the battery from the handset.

a second problem area is power management. go into the properties page
for your wireless adapter and check it for power management settings.
Change it to "Constantly Awake Mode", or "Maximum Power Mode", or
something like that. Laptop adapters often dial down the power until the
signal drops out, and let up it a little. This can happen over and over
as it tries to minimize its power usage.

 

[RalfG]

Ad-hoc and infrastructure settings would be on the PC's wireless adaptor and
possibly on access points. It determines how and what your PC connects to
wirelessly. I haven't seen it on routers but that doesn't mean there aren't
any that have it. Using ad-hoc means your PC could connect to any unsecured
wireless signal within range, including other nearby PCs/laptops. If there
were say 3 wireless networks within range your PC would try to connect to
each of them until it negotiates a connection. It might even change from one
to another at random as their signal strength drop or rise. Useful
behaviour if you are connecting to public hot-spots with your laptop but
usually you want your PC to connect to your own network exclusively, so
infrastructure is the prefered option.

Your drop-outs could be due to the wireless adapter security (WEP/WPA-PSK)
renegotiating the connection to to your network periodically. If you disable
security temporarily the disconnects should stop happening if this is the
main cause. If you also have other wireless networks nearby, especially
strong ones, you might want to try changing the radio frequency your router
is broadcasting on. That might also decrease the number of disconnects. I
get the same sort of occasional disconnects happening between a wireless
adapter with Prism chipset connected to a router with Atheros chipset. In
this case security is WPA-PSK. A wireless Atheros chipset adapter running
on the same LAN doesn't have any disconnects. The signal strength
indicator shows radio signal strength, not usually data quality though some
adapter utilities do show both.

I have found that my broadband line drops out for a minute or so quite
regularly. If your wireless network is configured as 'infrastructure
mode',
then a drop out in the broadband connection will bring the whole network
to
a halt (not true of every router). To avoid this, the network has to be
configured as 'ad hoc mode'.

I've never heard of that. is that a setting on the pc or the router?

 

[Electric Monk]

Ad-hoc and infrastructure settings would be on the PC's wireless adaptor and
possibly on access points. It determines how and what your PC connects to
wirelessly. I haven't seen it on routers but that doesn't mean there aren't
any that have it. Using ad-hoc means your PC could connect to any unsecured
wireless signal within range, including other nearby PCs/laptops. If there
were say 3 wireless networks within range your PC would try to connect to
each of them until it negotiates a connection. It might even change from one
to another at random as their signal strength drop or rise. Useful
behaviour if you are connecting to public hot-spots with your laptop but
usually you want your PC to connect to your own network exclusively, so
infrastructure is the prefered option.

Your drop-outs could be due to the wireless adapter security (WEP/WPA-PSK)
renegotiating the connection to to your network periodically. If you disable
security temporarily the disconnects should stop happening if this is the
main cause. If you also have other wireless networks nearby, especially
strong ones, you might want to try changing the radio frequency your router
is broadcasting on. That might also decrease the number of disconnects. I
get the same sort of occasional disconnects happening between a wireless
adapter with Prism chipset connected to a router with Atheros chipset. In
this case security is WPA-PSK. A wireless Atheros chipset adapter running
on the same LAN doesn't have any disconnects. The signal strength
indicator shows radio signal strength, not usually data quality though some
adapter utilities do show both.





I've never heard of that. is that a setting on the pc or the router?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the explanation. I think I know what M.I.5.75 was referring
to now - it's in the advanced tab of the wireless network connection.
I'll check that when I get home. I've only got WEP security on (using
11b).

 

[Electric Monk]

people don't realize that the wireless frequency is shared w/ cordless
phones, and microwave ovens often generate interferrence. If your drop
outs occur when either of these devices are in-use in your house then
that's the culprit. Sometime a neighbor's cordless phone can mess you up.
And some cordless phones don't even need to be in-use to cause issues,
just having them in the house can mess it up (better ones will shut down
xmissions when the phone is in the cradle). To verify, unplug from the
wall and remove the battery from the handset.

a second problem area is power management. go into the properties page
for your wireless adapter and check it for power management settings.
Change it to "Constantly Awake Mode", or "Maximum Power Mode", or
something like that. Laptop adapters often dial down the power until the
signal drops out, and let up it a little. This can happen over and over
as it tries to minimize its power usage.

I had heard of that with the cordless phones, but I didn't think the
Microwave would be a culprit? We don't have a cordless phone, and I
don't think the neighbours will take too kindly to me unplugging
theirs!
I'll check for the power settings on the adapter - I don't recall
seeing that setting, though.

I'm running 11b. Do 11g or 11n operate on different frequencies?

 

[M.I.5¾]

I have found that my broadband line drops out for a minute or so quite
regularly. If your wireless network is configured as 'infrastructure
mode',
then a drop out in the broadband connection will bring the whole network
to
a halt (not true of every router). To avoid this, the network has to be
configured as 'ad hoc mode'.

I've never heard of that. is that a setting on the pc or the router?

-------------------

You have to set it on every device on the network.

Fot the uninitiated: Infrastructure mode causes all network transmission to
take place via the router, so if the router stops working, the whole network
stops. This is usually the default mode.

Ad Hoc mode allows each node to talk directly to whichever node it requires,
so if the router stops, the rest of the network carries on regardless.

 

[RalfG]

I had heard of that with the cordless phones, but I didn't think the
Microwave would be a culprit? We don't have a cordless phone, and I
don't think the neighbours will take too kindly to me unplugging
theirs!
I'll check for the power settings on the adapter - I don't recall
seeing that setting, though.

I'm running 11b. Do 11g or 11n operate on different frequencies?

802.11b, g, and n operate in the same 2.4Ghz frequency range. 802.11a works
in the 5.x Ghz frequency range. Dlink has wireless 802.11ag routers,
AirPremier AG DI-784 and AirPremier AG WL-7100AP, that can operate in all 3
standards.

 

[RalfG]

Ad-hoc and infrastructure settings would be on the PC's wireless adaptor
and
possibly on access points. It determines how and what your PC connects to
wirelessly. I haven't seen it on routers but that doesn't mean there
aren't
any that have it. Using ad-hoc means your PC could connect to any
unsecured
wireless signal within range, including other nearby PCs/laptops. If there
were say 3 wireless networks within range your PC would try to connect to
each of them until it negotiates a connection. It might even change from
one
to another at random as their signal strength drop or rise. Useful
behaviour if you are connecting to public hot-spots with your laptop but
usually you want your PC to connect to your own network exclusively, so
infrastructure is the prefered option.

Your drop-outs could be due to the wireless adapter security (WEP/WPA-PSK)
renegotiating the connection to to your network periodically. If you
disable
security temporarily the disconnects should stop happening if this is the
main cause. If you also have other wireless networks nearby, especially
strong ones, you might want to try changing the radio frequency your
router
is broadcasting on. That might also decrease the number of disconnects. I
get the same sort of occasional disconnects happening between a wireless
adapter with Prism chipset connected to a router with Atheros chipset. In
this case security is WPA-PSK. A wireless Atheros chipset adapter running
on the same LAN doesn't have any disconnects. The signal strength
indicator shows radio signal strength, not usually data quality though
some
adapter utilities do show both.





I've never heard of that. is that a setting on the pc or the router?- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the explanation. I think I know what M.I.5.75 was referring
to now - it's in the advanced tab of the wireless network connection.
I'll check that when I get home. I've only got WEP security on (using
11b).

WPA-PSK is better if you have it available.

How many networks show up in your available networks list? The default
channel that routers are set to broadcast on is usually 6 so that is often
the most crowded channel. Try setting your router to use channel 1 or 11 as
these are the least used. Using the automatic channel setting on the router
can add to the number of wireless disconnections if the router changes
channels frequently. Also set a unique SSID in your router and set your PC
WiFi adapter to only connect automatically to your own network SSID, not any
others.

 

[Electric Monk]

WPA-PSK is better if you have it available.

How many networks show up in your available networks list? The default
channel that routers are set to broadcast on is usually 6 so that is often
the most crowded channel. Try setting your router to use channel 1 or 11 as
these are the least used. Using the automatic channel setting on the router
can add to the number of wireless disconnections if the router changes
channels frequently. Also set a unique SSID in your router and set your PC
WiFi adapter to only connect automatically to your own network SSID, not any
others.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My network is the only one that shows up. I can't use WPA-PSK because
my daughter has a Wii which runs off the wireless as well, and I could
only get it to work with WEP. The Wii isn't the problem though as it's
off most of the time.
Is there anything you can do to test for interference of the signal?
Like a noise reading or something like that, which would point to a
cordless or microwave?

 

[RalfG]

My network is the only one that shows up. I can't use WPA-PSK because
my daughter has a Wii which runs off the wireless as well, and I could
only get it to work with WEP. The Wii isn't the problem though as it's
off most of the time.
Is there anything you can do to test for interference of the signal?
Like a noise reading or something like that, which would point to a
cordless or microwave?

Nothing particularly inexpensive that I know of. In a range of $160. to
$2800.00 something like these might do to find sources of RF interference:

http://www.zapchecker.com/

I don't read anything in the thread that indicates you've already ruled out
WEP as the cause of the disconnects. If the wireless connection is stable
when WEP/security is turned off then outside interference is likely not
implicated in
the problem. In that case a different adapter or router could be the
solution.

 

[luke]

Nothing particularly inexpensive that I know of. In a range of $160. to
$2800.00 something like these might do to find sources of RF interference:

http://www.zapchecker.com/

I don't read anything in the thread that indicates you've already ruled
out
WEP as the cause of the disconnects. If the wireless connection is stable
when WEP/security is turned off then outside interference is likely not
implicated in
the problem. In that case a different adapter or router could be the
solution.

 

[Electric Monk]

Nothing particularly inexpensive that I know of. In a range of $160. to
$2800.00 something like these might do to find sources of RF interference:

http://www.zapchecker.com/

I don't read anything in the thread that indicates you've already ruled out
WEP as the cause of the disconnects. If the wireless connection is stable
when WEP/security is turned off then outside interference is likely not
implicated in
the problem. In that case a different adapter or router could be the
solution.

i never considered WEP as a source of the problem. Surely that's not
gonna tell XP that there's no network connection?

 

[RalfG]

i never considered WEP as a source of the problem. Surely that's not
gonna tell XP that there's no network connection?

WEP (or WPA) periodically renegotiates the secure connection. This can
happen every few minutes and ideally would be a transparent process. It has
no effect on the RF signal. If the security handshake takes too long to
complete for whatever reason it can time out and your data connection to the
modem will be cut, which Windows detects and reports that the network is not
connected. As soon as the WEP negotiation completes successfully the network
shows as connected again. Your router logs should also show the wireless
adapter reconnecting at those times.

 

[Electric Monk]

802.11b, g, and n operate in the same 2.4Ghz frequency range. 802.11a works
in the 5.x Ghz frequency range. Dlink has wireless 802.11ag routers,
AirPremier AG DI-784 and AirPremier AG WL-7100AP, that can operate in all 3
standards.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do the different channels operate on different frequencies? I
understand that ch 11 is the default. If I went to 6 or 1, would it be
less likely to get interference from cordless phones/microwaves (if
they were the cause)?

 

[RalfG]

Do the different channels operate on different frequencies? I
understand that ch 11 is the default. If I went to 6 or 1, would it be
less likely to get interference from cordless phones/microwaves (if
they were the cause)?

I believe channel 6 is the more usual default. Yes the channels are
different frequencies within the range allotted for WiFi. No it probably
wouldn't make any difference for interference from cordless phones or
microwaves because the RF those put out is just random noise on the wireless
signal.