Windows XP-SP3; Web access is only the first 10 or 15 minutes of each seesion .

[mm]

Windows XP-SP3; Web access is only the first 10 or 15 minutes of each
session.


Besides planning to do a repair install on windows XP SP3, I'm also
trying to solve my XP problem one symptom at a time.

(When my problem first started, it took 15 minutes to start windows,
and when Windows started, it ran 10 times as slow as normal, and it
would not access the web or the rest of the internet. In order to get
this far, I used msconfig.exe and unchecked every Service and every
start-up program. I have rechecked every service except Shell
Hardware Detection and Uninterruptable Power Supply.
In Firefox, I disable every add-on.)

I have Verizon DSL (which gives me no problem 99.99% of the time when
using win98SE on the same box).

RIGHT NOW, most of XP works all the time, and at normal speed, and all
or almost all of the rest works some of the time (and at normal
speed).

SPECIFICALLY, web access works only for the first 10 or 15 minutes
after Windows XP-SP3 has started. This includes IE6 and FF3. The
messages are something like Server not Found, or a blank screen with
the word "done" on the line at the bottom. This includes efforts to
fetch the same url l that I got successfully just a couple minutes
ago. Watching a video on Utube worked, once for 8 minutes, and
another time, when I had done something else first, it only rant for 2
minutes. Then it just stopped. I could still move the cursor and
click on things which would take me to a blank screen with a new url
in the location box at the top, but nothing will load.

OTOH, POP email and Usenet work all the time.

The rest is more examples of programs that do the same sort of thing.


Eudora email works all the time, but emails in html which include
graphics that have urls won't download except during those first 10 or
15 minutes. Emails I look at after that just sit there with blue space
where the graphic is supposed to be.

Windows updates seem to download, but if it's possible to do so in
multiple windows sessions, that's what's happening. It may be doing
part of the DL in the first 10 minutes of each session. When it
completes the dl, it correctly installs the updates when I exit
Windows. 3 of them last night, several others 4 or 5 days ago.

From win98, I dl'd a newer release of AVG, but installed it in XP.
It's been able to update its own virus definitions, automatically
yesterday, but when I tried late last night, the dl failed in the
middle. Come to think of it, that had happened several times before,
and I guess it happens when the 10 or 15 minute time limit is passed.

Agent will download from Usenet all the time.

Spybot S&D won't dl new definitions, but it's a low-priority program
and I've probably never tried during the first 15 minutes.


Thanks a lot for any help you can give.

 

[mm]

Windows XP-SP3; Web access is only the first 10 or 15 minutes of each
session.

BTW, maybe I should have said that I x-posted this to XP General, IE
General, and Netscape.public.mozilla.browser.

If you care to bring glory to your ng, tell us where you're posting
from.

 

[rob^_^]

Error Messages?

Check your Internet Options - General tab, Temporary Internet Files,
Settings button. Have you set the storage to 50Mb or greater (see
recommendations)?

When was the last time you had a Adobe or Shockwave Flash update? (important
security updates went out last month).

Do you have the GoogleToolbarUpdater.exe in your Windows startup list...
Known issue. Uninstall the old version of the Google toolbar and reboot.
Then go to toolbar.google.com for the IE8 compatible version.

AOL software updates and Quicktime - known to cause problems with IE8 and
the Win Startup list. You can disable these two services by adjusting their
settings (see their control panels to switch off automatic updates).

Most IE8/Win startup problems are caused by 'Updater' services trying to
call home when IE is in a different security context.

It sounds like your machine is suffering from Windows Bloat.

I would be considering a hardware and software upgrade to Win7. I imagine
this would take less of your time than trying to turn Mutton to Lamb.

Regards.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

It's been able to update its own virus definitions, automatically

yesterday, but when I tried late last night, the dl failed in the
middle.

Spybot S&D won't dl new definitions,

Back-up any personal data (none of which should be considered 100%
trustworthy at this point) then do a format & clean install of Windows.
Please note that a Repair Install (AKA in-place upgrade) will NOT fix this!

cf. http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html#steps

After the clean install, you'll have the equivalent of a "new computer" so
take care of everything on the following page before otherwise connecting
the machine to the internet or a network and before using a USB key that
isn't brand-new or hasn't been freshly formatted:

5 steps to help protect your new computer before you go online
http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/advanced/xppc.mspx

Other helpful references include:

HOW TO get a computer running WinXP Gold (no Service Packs) fully patched
(after a clean install)
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/msg/3f5afa8ed33e121c

HOW TO get a computer running WinXP SP1(a) or SP2 fully patched (after a
clean install)
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/a066ae41add7dd2b

Also see:

Steps To Help Prevent Spyware
http://www.microsoft.com/security/spyware/prevent.aspx

Steps to Help Prevent Computer Worms
http://www.microsoft.com/security/worms/prevent.aspx

Avoid Rogue Security Software!
http://www.microsoft.com/security/antivirus/rogue.aspx

 

[mm]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:12:06 +1100, "rob^_^"

Thanks for your detailed answer.

Error Messages?

None.

After the first 10 minutes or so when it stops working, I get the
standard page from IE, "The page cannot be displayed The page you are
looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be
experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your
browser settings...."

Or the video just stops playing, the time elapsed doesn't change
anymore;

Or in FF#, it just shows "Done" in the bottom line.

AVG and Spybot return their own messages that the update failed to
complete.

Eudora will dl mail, but if an email has embedded files with a url
that are supposed to dl separately, no error message. They just stay
as blue boxes.

Check your Internet Options - General tab, Temporary Internet Files,
Settings button. Have you set the storage to 50Mb or greater (see
recommendations)?

63 megs. (I don't know how it ended up there, but that's what it is.
)

When was the last time you had a Adobe or Shockwave Flash update? (important
security updates went out last month).

Not sure. Haven't used Adobe or Shockwave since July. Would it still
update? Fop Adobe Flash I have ver 10.0.22.87

You probably don't mean the reader, do you? (I originally dl'd and
installed Adobe Reader 9 May 22 of this year. It appears to have been
based only on the install file name version 9.1.0. Now I have version
9.1.2. I can update Adobe reader manually, but it has to be the first
thing I do when I start XP. )

As to security, I've done full harddrive scans with
BitDefender with that day's definitions,
SuperAntiSpyware, with that day's definitions
AVG with that day's definitions
and found only cookies and little things which didn't seem important
but nonetheless I deleted everything. I restored from backup one
Eudora mailboxe and index, but it's in a separate datar partition and
also never gets opened.

Is now the right time to do a Repair slipstream install of XP?

Do you have the GoogleToolbarUpdater.exe in your Windows startup list...
Known issue. Uninstall the old version of the Google toolbar and reboot.
Then go to toolbar.google.com for the IE8 compatible version.

No special tool bars, just the ones that came with IE6: status bar,
standard buttons, address bar, and links. (No added bars in FF3
either.)

AOL software updates and Quicktime - known to cause problems with IE8 and
the Win Startup list.

XP came with IE6, and after I installed IE7, I had major problems, so
uninstalled it. Everything worked then, and XP worked great for more
than a month after that until I had the current problem. I was
afraid to install IE8.

In both win98SE and XP, Quicktime was not in my startup, but it
suddenly appreared in both -- I don't know when. In XP it's been
unchecked in Startup in the SCUtility for two weeks now.

I never had any AOL programs or software updates in the Startup list
or anywhere.

***I see that ctfmon.exe is running. I don't remember what that is.
Could that be the problem?

You can disable these two services by adjusting their
settings (see their control panels to switch off automatic updates).

OK, I switched off Quicktime updates.

Most IE8/Win startup problems are caused by 'Updater' services trying to
call home when IE is in a different security context.

Is this really a start-up problem? All the web programs work for 10
or 15 minutes, and then they stop.

I used to have trouble starting but now that I've unchecked, disabled
those two Service, Shell Hardware Detection and Uninterruptible Power
Supply, it starts as quickly as ever.

It sounds like your machine is suffering from Windows Bloat.

Bloat? I don't have many programs installed. 13 (list further
down**)

And the HD partition has 10 empty gigabytes.

There are only two errors in the event viewer per session, both under
System, both to do with Zone Alarm, both under S


Doesn't it seem strange that the web will work for a while and then
stop?

I would be considering a hardware and software upgrade to Win7. I imagine
this would take less of your time than trying to turn Mutton to Lamb.

No job right now. Plenty of time but not much money.

Regards.

Adobe Reader 9
AVG
Firefox3
PowerDesk6 (a windows explorer substitute)
Real Player
Support Tools
Zone Alarm
TCC by 4DOS, a DOS emulator with enhanced dos commands
Spybot S&D
OverDriveMediaConsole (that was supposed to let me read online books
from the public library.)
QuickTime.

And since these problems started, I've installed
Malwarebytes AntiMalware
SuperAntiSpyware

Thanks again.

Mike

 

[Daave]

Comments inline.

As to security, I've done full harddrive scans with
BitDefender with that day's definitions,
SuperAntiSpyware, with that day's definitions
AVG with that day's definitions
and found only cookies and little things which didn't seem important
but nonetheless I deleted everything. I restored from backup one
Eudora mailboxe and index, but it's in a separate datar partition and
also never gets opened.

I've been a fan of AVG for a long time -- until recently. I find it very
bloated now. I would definitely ditch it for something much lighter on
resources -- like Avira AntiVir.

Although I snipped what you earlier wrote, you did mention Spybot
(presumably Spybot Search & Destroy). Although this was once great to
have, it's no longer that effective. I would uninstall it. MalwareBytes'
Anti-Malware (MBAM) and SuperAntiSpyware (SAS) are enough, IMO.

You had also mentioned ZoneAlarm, which is another waste of resources. I
would uninstall it and use the more-than-adequate Windows Firewall.
True, it doesn't block outgoing traffic, but the truth is that once
malware gets in, it will probably override a firewall's outbound
protection anyway. Better to concentrate on incoming traffic. And
that means safe hex, too.

BTW, did you ever have malware on this machine? If so, there may still
be traces.

Is now the right time to do a Repair slipstream install of XP?

I'm not sure such a thing exists! You can create a custom-made
installation CD, slipstreaming SP3 into it, and *then* boot off this CD
to peform a Repair Install. But it is NOT advised! you need to address
your immediate issue first, and I see no evidence that a Repair Install
is appropriate in this situation.

***I see that ctfmon.exe is running. I don't remember what that is.
Could that be the problem?

Could be. I always disable that obnoxious feature:

http://www.pchell.com/support/ctfmon.shtml

Bloat? I don't have many programs installed. 13 (list further
down**)

I would say AVG and ZoneAlarm are bloatware.

One thing to consider: How much time do you want to spend
troubleshooting this issue? You might find that performing a Clean
Install with your newly created XP isntallation CD at the SP3 level will
yield the largest benefit. However, if you *never* had malware,
troubleshooting may not be a bad idea, and this could be a learning
experience. But you should think about how much time you want to devote
to this endeavor.

 

[Daave]

Comments inline.


I've been a fan of AVG for a long time -- until recently. I find it
very bloated now. I would definitely ditch it for something much
lighter on resources -- like Avira AntiVir.

Although I snipped what you earlier wrote, you did mention Spybot
(presumably Spybot Search & Destroy). Although this was once great to
have, it's no longer that effective. I would uninstall it.
MalwareBytes' Anti-Malware (MBAM) and SuperAntiSpyware (SAS) are
enough, IMO.
You had also mentioned ZoneAlarm, which is another waste of
resources. I would uninstall it and use the more-than-adequate
Windows Firewall. True, it doesn't block outgoing traffic, but the
truth is that once malware gets in, it will probably override a
firewall's outbound protection anyway. Better to concentrate on
incoming traffic. And that means safe hex, too.

BTW, did you ever have malware on this machine? If so, there may still
be traces.


I'm not sure such a thing exists! You can create a custom-made
installation CD, slipstreaming SP3 into it, and *then* boot off this
CD to peform a Repair Install. But it is NOT advised! you need to
address your immediate issue first, and I see no evidence that a
Repair Install is appropriate in this situation.


Could be. I always disable that obnoxious feature:

http://www.pchell.com/support/ctfmon.shtml


I would say AVG and ZoneAlarm are bloatware.

One thing to consider: How much time do you want to spend
troubleshooting this issue? You might find that performing a Clean
Install with your newly created XP isntallation CD at the SP3 level
will yield the largest benefit. However, if you *never* had malware,
troubleshooting may not be a bad idea, and this could be a learning
experience. But you should think about how much time you want to
devote to this endeavor.

I just re-read your earlier thread "XP Started Slow" and I'll bet you
still have malware left. Although you could run HijackThis scans and
have experts analyze your logs and assist you, I still think a Clean
Install makes the most amount of sense. It wouldn't hurt to try a Repair
Install first (as a learning exercise), but a Repair Install won't be
able to remove the deeply hidden malware you most surely still have.

If this were a test machine *and* you had lots of time, detective work
(assuming you have lots of patience!) would make sense. But I really
think it's time to cut your losses and wipe the slate clean!

Make sure all your data is safely backed up!!!

 

[mm]

Comments inline.


I've been a fan of AVG for a long time -- until recently. I find it very
bloated now. I would definitely ditch it for something much lighter on
resources -- like Avira AntiVir.

Although I snipped what you earlier wrote, you did mention Spybot
(presumably Spybot Search & Destroy). Although this was once great to
Yes.

have, it's no longer that effective. I would uninstall it. MalwareBytes'
Anti-Malware (MBAM) and SuperAntiSpyware (SAS) are enough, IMO.

I think I should wait until I have the big problem fixed before I
start changing things, right? Only AVG is running now. The others
were one-time scans, just in case there was a virus.

You had also mentioned ZoneAlarm, which is another waste of resources. I
would uninstall it and use the more-than-adequate Windows Firewall.
True, it doesn't block outgoing traffic, but the truth is that once
malware gets in, it will probably override a firewall's outbound
protection anyway. Better to concentrate on incoming traffic. And
that means safe hex, too.

BTW, did you ever have malware on this machine? If so, there may still
be traces.

I don't think I ever did. XP only ran for two months or so, and I
started with sp3 and allowed all the windows updates. I ran AVG,
bloated or not, from the first day. I had one possible incident in
Win98 on the same harddrive, but that was before I installed XP in
another partition.

I'm not sure such a thing exists! You can create a custom-made
installation CD, slipstreaming SP3 into it, and *then* boot off this CD
to peform a Repair Install.

Yes, that's what I meant.

But it is NOT advised! you need to address
your immediate issue first, and I see no evidence that a Repair Install
is appropriate in this situation.
Okay.


Could be. I always disable that obnoxious feature:

http://www.pchell.com/support/ctfmon.shtml
Okay.


I would say AVG and ZoneAlarm are bloatware.

One thing to consider: How much time do you want to spend
troubleshooting this issue? You might find that performing a Clean
Install with your newly created XP isntallation CD at the SP3 level will
yield the largest benefit. However, if you *never* had malware,
troubleshooting may not be a bad idea, and this could be a learning
experience.

I do like learning experiences, so I'm ready to spend more time than
someone else would on this. Especially with computers, I've learned
a lot already and I find it very interesting.

I figured this "running on the web for 15 minutes" might be a well
known symptom of a known problem. Everything pretty much works. If
I could lengthen 15 minutes to 16 hours

But you should think about how much time you want to devote
to this endeavor.

FWIW, I usually do this when I'm watching tv. If the troubleshooting
gets really interesting, I lose track of the tv show, but hey, that's
life.

 

[rob^_^]

Hi mm,

Thanks for the excellent detail!

It doesn't make diagnosis any easier though.

I thought it may be a startup service that is trying to call home to look
for updates because your connection is dropping out after a certain period
on the web. Typically the check for updates services of some addons occur
while IE has an active connection which can conflict with the security zone
of the currently viewed page. In Vista this causes a DEP (Data execution
prevention).

Slow startup's though are a sure sign of an Addon causing problems.
Although FX should be unaffected.

Oh, You have Spybot installed? Check that you have not disabled any Browser
Helpers... use the IE Addons Manager only to manage Addons so that Toolbars
and Browser Helpers are enabled/disabled together. With Spybot in control of
BHO's you can end up with some Addons only partly enabled.

To disable BHO's and Toolbars use the "Enable third-party browser
extensions" on the Advanced tab of Internet Options.

If after all that you still have no joy, and before you try a reformat, you
may like to try a RIES (Reset IE Settings - Reset button on the Advanced tab
of Internet Options). This will disable ALL of your IE Addons and reset ALL
IE settings to their factory/recommended defaults.

Regards.

 

[Daave]

I just re-read your earlier thread "XP Started Slow" and I'll bet you
still have malware left. Although you could run HijackThis scans and
have experts analyze your logs and assist you, I still think a Clean
Install makes the most amount of sense. It wouldn't hurt to try a
Repair Install first (as a learning exercise), but a Repair Install
won't be able to remove the deeply hidden malware you most surely
still have.
If this were a test machine *and* you had lots of time, detective work
(assuming you have lots of patience!) would make sense. But I really
think it's time to cut your losses and wipe the slate clean!

Make sure all your data is safely backed up!!!

One final thought: I still think your problem is likely from ZoneAlarm
or Spybot S&D. Once these are uninstalled, I would be curious to see the
effect. In the meantime, you can run XP in Safe Mode with Networking to
see if you lose Web connectivity.

When uninstalling AVG (also recommended) and ZoneAlarm, both of these
companies have removers that should also be run since the uninstallers
aren't complete! They can be found at the respetive Web sites.

If you had IE7, I would recommend running it in the No Add-ons Mode, but
I'm not sure how this is done with IE6; I think you need to manually
disable the BHOs. Then again, you said Firefox yields the same result,
so this is why I think something else is interfering. And since your
other thread contained information that your security programs were
prevented from running, I thought and still think that malware slipped
in at some time. If that is what happened, sometimes the best solution
*is* a Clean Install. Then again, you stated elsewhere you have the time
and energy to get to the bottom of your problem, so maybe you're still
not ready for this! So once more, if you decide to continue your
troubleshooting (or perform the Clean Install, for that matter), I can't
stress the importance of making sure everything is backed up! And this
site is a great resource:

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Removing_Malware

 

[Jose]

Windows XP-SP3; Web access is only the first 10 or 15 minutes of each
session.

Besides planning to do a repair install on windows XP SP3...

If you installed ZA out of the box or out of the download, it can most
certainly use some adjusting.

The Spybot TeaTimer function is a memory hog. I personally quit using
Spybot long ago - never finds anything but cookies and there are lots
of other/better product. TeaTimer will consume 100K+ of virtual
memory while it is running. That is a lot.

Right click the Taskbar, choose to open Task Manager.

Click View, Select Columns, check the box that says: Virtual Memory
Size. Expand the width of the Task Manager
box so you can see all the columns.

Click the VM Size column heading once or twice to sort by VM Size
biggest to smallest, top to bottom.

Who's on top?

ZA is just a general hog and even worse if not tuned to your system
environment and most people don't bother or don't know how to
configure it so it doesn't cause performance issues. It is not for
everybody.

Disable both temporarily and see how things work.

Learn how to setup ZA if you think you need it - there are many
options and the defaults are not right for everybody. ZA itself is
not right for everybody either.

If you are using the ZA firewall and the XP firewall together, don't
(a lot of people do) - or you will have issues like yours. Pick one
or the other.

AVG? I have nothing good to say about AVG either.

More protection is not always a good thing. Too much protection can
be hazardous to your system performance and reliability. Well
orchestrated protection is the way to go.

At a glance, I would say your configuration is the cause of your woe,
but can be fixed.

 

[mm]

I reallly appreciate your diligence on this for me, a total stranger.
I was going to reply to this post, which I saw late last night, but
you've already posted again, below.

If there's malware it must have something to do with one of the two
Services that I've stopped from running, right? But on second
thought, I guess that's not a clue to finding it. ??

Notice: The problem is pretty much solved, so I'm still interested in
everyone's comments, but don't go to the kind of trouble you would for
someone whose computer didn't work.

Thanks a lot to Daave, rob, PABear, and Jose.

[continued below]

One final thought: I still think your problem is likely from ZoneAlarm
or Spybot S&D. Once these are uninstalled, I would be curious to see the
effect. In the meantime, you can run XP in Safe Mode with Networking to
see if you lose Web connectivity.

I tried running in Safe Mode with Networking yesterday (which is a
couple weeks ago now) and I had no connectivity at all!! not even
usenet or pop email, which I have had all this time, and the web
didn't work at all, not 10 minutes like before.

When uninstalling AVG (also recommended) and ZoneAlarm, both of these
companies have removers that should also be run since the uninstallers
aren't complete! They can be found at the respetive Web sites.

And indeed, Zone Alarm was the problem. I was going slow,
step-by-step, and also reading the web. I thought I couldn't come up
with the right search words for my problem, but I tried
XP web "ten minutes" .
Amazingly enough, two of the first 3 hits were about my problem, and
unlike some problems where no one posts even a suggested solution,
each of these had several replies. And because you had mentioned Zone
Alarm too, along with other suggestions by you and others, and he
singled it out, I worked on Zone Alarm first.

I had already removed it from the start-up list, but this time I
installed it. For some silly reason, the ZA uninstall program doesn't
uninstall everything and they know it. I found a webpage that said to
add /clean as a parameter to the ZA uninstall command, so I did
that and after uninstalling, the web started working with both IE and
FF either immediately or after rebooting.

My web access was really only for 7 minutes, but I figured people
would round to 10 minutes.

I used ZA in win98 for 5 years or more with no problems, and in XP for
2 months with no problems.

I never did find any malware, except possibly for the files that
BitDefender said it woould quarantine and then put them in a RAM drive
and then deleted them when I rebooted. But I looked at them somewhat
before they were deleted and they didn't look bad, maybe only tracking
cookies. And I had already run other virus checkers. So I still
don't know what happened, to cause the slow booting, but right now I
have two services unchecked in msconfig
Uninterruptible Power Supply, which I've read at
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm isn't necessary, and my
UPS doesn't communicate with the computer anyhow. and
Shell Hardware Detection, which has something to do with
automatically recognizing DVD drives, etc. Now right now I havent'
been able to play a DVD, but I haven't tried too hard yet, and think I
never have done that on XP. And I'm getting new video card so maybe
that is what I need. It still recognized my flashdrive.
When Shell Hardware Detection was still enabled, it took 15 minutes
to start Windows, so I'm hoping I can leave it unchecked.