Windows Genuine Advantage

[Tom Penharston]

Windows Genuine Advantage
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp

Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers once
the initiative starts.


INSTALLING BRAND NEW SYSTEMS OFF-LINE


I'm under the impression that most serious administrators keep their
machines off-line until they are patched (I do). When an unpatched
system goes on-line the window of vulnerability may be one minute or
one day depending on who you ask, but I think most of us agree that the
window is becomming shorter each year as viruses become more
aggressive. (I recall that the Blaster virus was capable of infecting
an entire subnet in minutes.)


QUESTIONS


Here are my questions for home users. If Joe downloads updates through
the Microsoft Download Center using Genuine Advantage, what's to stop
Joe from burning a CD for Mary with the executable update files? Will
Mary be prevented from installing the patches off-line? Thus, a window
of vulnerabiltiy? What's the absolute best way for Mary to handle the
situation? Please don't tell me it shouldn't be that way, just tell me
the best answer!

Similarly, can we download patches to a Macintosh or Linux computer to
distribute to a PC?

Here are some questions for business:

SUS Servers have the ability to download all Microsoft updates. Will
SUS (or SMS) undergo changes under the Windows Genuine Advantage
initiative? Will each client computer share key codes with SUS? (That
would be a huge addition to what is now, a very lean update server.)
So far I'm lead to believe that just one key code would be required but
I haven't found the information on the Microsoft website. Does anyone
have a link?

Two similar questions about bulk licensing:

If an organization has purchased multiple computers through an OEM
dealer must each computer go through Genuine Advantage? If site
licenses (or upgrade licenses) are purchased through Microsoft's EOPEN
Open Licensing Program must each individual system go through Genuine
Advantage?


WORK / HOME


I guess it's unlikely there will be problems for institutions
installing computers with RIS, Ghost, or other tools. There will be
always be a way for us to build safe computers for business, education,
etc. Genuine Advantage is just another part of the routine now.

I'm a little less optomistic for home users than I am for business.
Legitimate users will connect to the internet and race against the
clock to reach a Genuine Advantage web server and a Windows Update web
server. During that time the neighbor's unpatched, unlicensed,
infected computer has a chance of making an attack. This has always
been the case, but now this initiative is likely to cause a surge in
unprotected systems. That means more of your fellow DSL, Cable Modem,
or dial-up users are likely to attack you. (That's the point of most
of the blogs and articles I've read, and I tend to agree.)

In the long run, it's good news for tech-minded people who earn a
living fixing compters for homes and small businesses, but casual users
(those with and without valid licenses) are more or less in a fog. I'm
trying to be neutral, but I have to make a comment about Microsoft. I
don't think MS knows how to break the fog; I don't think they really
know how to communicate with the average Joe. My confidence would be
restored by an update check at boot, or ip enable, that is regulated by
a firewall - and requires no understanding by the user. Then I'd stop
advocating Mac OS-X and encourage folks to continue using Windows.
(Hey, I didn't stay as neutral as I intended, but it's tough to do.)

Links would be appreciated. I didn't find my answers at TechNet, maybe
there is another part of Microsoft's site with good info.

-Tom

 

[Vagabond Software]

Windows Genuine Advantage
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp

Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers once
the initiative starts.

Keeping in mind that known and confirmed pirated copies will still be freely updated through Automatic Update...

Your concerns seem a bit unfounded. Any home user that is behind even a mediocre broadband router is plenty safe for the purpose of automatic updates. On the other hand, any home user directly connected to the Internet without a router is playing worm-roulette regardless of whether or not they patch online or offline.

I imagine the same is true for domain networks. What business has domain client computers in the DMZ?

carl

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Windows Genuine Advantage
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp

Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers once
the initiative starts.

Keeping in mind that known and confirmed pirated copies will still be
freely >updated through Automatic Update...

Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic (Windows)
Update.
The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows machines have
access to our updates.


--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

Windows Genuine Advantage
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp

Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers once
the initiative starts.

Keeping in mind that known and confirmed pirated copies will still be freely
updated through Automatic Update...

Your concerns seem a bit unfounded. Any home user that is behind even a
mediocre broadband router is plenty safe for the purpose of automatic
updates. On the other hand, any home user directly connected to the
Internet without a router is playing worm-roulette regardless of whether or
not they patch online or offline.

I imagine the same is true for domain networks. What business has domain
client computers in the DMZ?

carl

 

[Vagabond Software]

Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic (Windows)
Update.
The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows machines have
access to our updates.

Apparently, that is not exactly the point...

From PC World Article:

"Validation is not required for Windows Automatic Updates, says David Lazar, a director in Microsoft's Windows Client group."

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,119458,pg,1,RSS,RSS,00.asp

Regards,

carl

 

[Greg R]

No one answered the op original question.

I am adding some of my own

What about preinstalled system they are installed with a different key
than the key that is listed on the back or bottom of the machine?

What if you are trying to patch a windows system that cannot access
the internet? You use a Linux machine? Can not download it, because
your using another system?

What about business and people that use auto update? Are they going to
have to enter the key. I know this one boss who does not have the
time to do this always busy.

What about volume license customers?

Sorry if any question is a duplicate.

What happen if your version is legal but Windows Genuine Advantage
says it not.



Greg R

 

[Guest]

-----Original Message-----
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" <[email protected]>

wrote in message

....

Apparently, that is not exactly the point...

From PC World Article:

"Validation is not required for Windows Automatic

Updates, says David Lazar, a director in Microsoft's
Windows Client group."

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,119458,pg,1,RSS ,RSS,00.asp

Regards,

carl
.
microsoft apparently is trying to close that loophole

with pirated copies being allowed updates ,originally
they were allowed updates so they would be patched and
less likley to infect the rest of us,I dont know how
microsoft will balance stopping pirated copies from
getting updates against pirated copies being unpatched
and infected everyone else,apparently the new plan is no
updates for pirated copies.

 

[Dan]

There was a PC World article that said Microsoft will allow pirated copies of
XP to be updated via automatic updates as a good will gesture and to help
keep the Internet safer for everyone.

: : : >
: > Windows Genuine Advantage
: > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp
: >
: > Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
: > post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers once
: > the initiative starts.
: >
: >
:
: >Keeping in mind that known and confirmed pirated copies will still be
: >freely >updated through Automatic Update...
:
: Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic
(Windows)
: Update.
: The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows machines have
: access to our updates.
:
:
: --
:
: Regards,
:
: Mike
: --
: Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
:
: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
: rights
:
: Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
: newsgroups
:
: : : >
: > Windows Genuine Advantage
: > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp
: >
: > Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
: > post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers once
: > the initiative starts.
: >
: >
:
: Keeping in mind that known and confirmed pirated copies will still be
freely
: updated through Automatic Update...
:
: Your concerns seem a bit unfounded. Any home user that is behind even a
: mediocre broadband router is plenty safe for the purpose of automatic
: updates. On the other hand, any home user directly connected to the
: Internet without a router is playing worm-roulette regardless of whether or
: not they patch online or offline.
:
: I imagine the same is true for domain networks. What business has domain
: client computers in the DMZ?
:
: carl
:
:

 

[Alex Nichol]

Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic (Windows)
Update.
The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows machines have
access to our updates.

Our information is that security updates will be available to all
through Windows Auto Update, but not optional items

 

[Alex Nichol]

What about preinstalled system they are installed with a different key
than the key that is listed on the back or bottom of the machine?

For ALL purposes use the key on the machine label

 

[Alias]

| Mike Brannigan [MSFT] wrote:
|
| >
| >Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic
(Windows)
| >Update.
| >The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows machines
have
| >access to our updates.
|
| Our information is that security updates will be available to all
| through Windows Auto Update, but not optional items
|
|
| --
| Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)

Of course, the crackers can download the "optional items", burn them to a CD
and install them on pirated computers ...

 

[Dan]

I think that may be true but at least Microsoft is making things more
difficult for hackers. In addition since 9-11-01 our lives in the U.S. are
more difficult and inconvenient but I thank the stars above that I still have
more freedom then oppressive regimes around the world in places like Syria.

:
: : | Mike Brannigan [MSFT] wrote:
: |
: | >
: | >Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic
: (Windows)
: | >Update.
: | >The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows machines
: have
: | >access to our updates.
: |
: | Our information is that security updates will be available to all
: | through Windows Auto Update, but not optional items
: |
: |
: | --
: | Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
:
: Of course, the crackers can download the "optional items", burn them to a
CD
: and install them on pirated computers ...
:
:

 

[Alias]

|I think that may be true but at least Microsoft is making things more
| difficult for hackers. In addition since 9-11-01 our lives in the U.S.
are
| more difficult and inconvenient but I thank the stars above that I still
have
| more freedom then oppressive regimes around the world in places like
Syria.

Yeah, really groovy. MS' new program has this as a basis: guilty until
proven innocent. How "American" and non "Syrian" is that?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
|
| | :
| : | : | Mike Brannigan [MSFT] wrote:
| : |
| : | >
| : | >Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic
| : (Windows)
| : | >Update.
| : | >The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows
machines
| : have
| : | >access to our updates.
| : |
| : | Our information is that security updates will be available to all
| : | through Windows Auto Update, but not optional items
| : |
| : |
| : | --
| : | Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
| :
| : Of course, the crackers can download the "optional items", burn them to
a
| CD
| : and install them on pirated computers ...
| :
| :
|
|

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

There was a PC World article that said Microsoft will allow pirated copies
of
XP to be updated via automatic updates as a good will gesture and to help
keep the Internet safer for everyone.

I read that but that is only the current position - there is no reason to
assume that as WGA extends we will continue to support the updating fo
obviously pirated/stolen copes of Windows XP.
Illegal users should endeavour to legitimatize their use of Windows XP as
soon as possible


--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

|I think that may be true but at least Microsoft is making things more
| difficult for hackers. In addition since 9-11-01 our lives in the U.S.
are
| more difficult and inconvenient but I thank the stars above that I still
have
| more freedom then oppressive regimes around the world in places like
Syria.

Yeah, really groovy. MS' new program has this as a basis: guilty until
proven innocent. How "American" and non "Syrian" is that?
--

If your copy of Windows is genuine then you have no issue at all with
support for Windows download or how so ever WGA is extended to ensure only
legitimate Windows opertaing system licensed users are supported.
--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

|I think that may be true but at least Microsoft is making things more
| difficult for hackers. In addition since 9-11-01 our lives in the U.S.
are
| more difficult and inconvenient but I thank the stars above that I still
have
| more freedom then oppressive regimes around the world in places like
Syria.

Yeah, really groovy. MS' new program has this as a basis: guilty until
proven innocent. How "American" and non "Syrian" is that?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
|
| | :
| : | : | Mike Brannigan [MSFT] wrote:
| : |
| : | >
| : | >Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic
| : (Windows)
| : | >Update.
| : | >The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows
machines
| : have
| : | >access to our updates.
| : |
| : | Our information is that security updates will be available to all
| : | through Windows Auto Update, but not optional items
| : |
| : |
| : | --
| : | Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
| :
| : Of course, the crackers can download the "optional items", burn them
to
a
| CD
| : and install them on pirated computers ...
| :
| :
|
|

 

[Alias]

| >
| > | > |I think that may be true but at least Microsoft is making things more
| > | difficult for hackers. In addition since 9-11-01 our lives in the
U.S.
| > are
| > | more difficult and inconvenient but I thank the stars above that I
still
| > have
| > | more freedom then oppressive regimes around the world in places like
| > Syria.
| >
| > Yeah, really groovy. MS' new program has this as a basis: guilty until
| > proven innocent. How "American" and non "Syrian" is that?
| > --
|
| If your copy of Windows is genuine then you have no issue at all with
| support for Windows download or how so ever WGA is extended to ensure only
| legitimate Windows opertaing system licensed users are supported.
| --
|
| Regards,
|
| Mike
| --
| Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

Like I said, paying customers with genuine copies of Windows are assumed to
be guilty until they can prove their innocence by passing the WGA test. Not
good PR, Microsoft and a PITA. For the crackers and pirates, all WGA does is
provide another cracking challenge and so the pissing contest continues with
paying customers caught in the crossfire.

 

[Dan]

Thanks for your post Mike and will there be more information for illegal
users especially the ones who do not realize they are using illegal software
to get legal software. Will a discount be made available for them? In
addition, will there be any Microsoft programs to help out the poor and
disadvantaged who are using illegal copies? I know companies need to make
money in order for our capitalistic society to work but I still think we need
to help the less fortunate. Thanks in advance and I appreciate any response
and value the response(s) greatly.

: : > There was a PC World article that said Microsoft will allow pirated
copies
: > of
: > XP to be updated via automatic updates as a good will gesture and to help
: > keep the Internet safer for everyone.
:
: I read that but that is only the current position - there is no reason to
: assume that as WGA extends we will continue to support the updating fo
: obviously pirated/stolen copes of Windows XP.
: Illegal users should endeavour to legitimatize their use of Windows XP as
: soon as possible
:
:
: --
:
: Regards,
:
: Mike
: --
: Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
:
: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
: rights
:
: Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
: newsgroups
:
: : > There was a PC World article that said Microsoft will allow pirated
copies
: > of
: > XP to be updated via automatic updates as a good will gesture and to help
: > keep the Internet safer for everyone.
: >
: > : > : : > : : > : >
: > : > Windows Genuine Advantage
: > : > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp
: > : >
: > : > Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
: > : > post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers
once
: > : > the initiative starts.
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > : >Keeping in mind that known and confirmed pirated copies will still be
: > : >freely >updated through Automatic Update...
: > :
: > : Why do you believe that pirated copes will be updated by Automatic
: > (Windows)
: > : Update.
: > : The point of WGA is to ensure that only genuine legal Windows machines
: > have
: > : access to our updates.
: > :
: > :
: > : --
: > :
: > : Regards,
: > :
: > : Mike
: > : --
: > : Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
: > :
: > : This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
: > : rights
: > :
: > : Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
: > : newsgroups
: > :
: > : : > : : > : >
: > : > Windows Genuine Advantage
: > : > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1754886,00.asp
: > : >
: > : > Instead of debating the merits of Genuine Advantage I'm writing this
: > : > post to get advice on configuration steps for brand new computers
once
: > : > the initiative starts.
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > : Keeping in mind that known and confirmed pirated copies will still be
: > freely
: > : updated through Automatic Update...
: > :
: > : Your concerns seem a bit unfounded. Any home user that is behind even
a
: > : mediocre broadband router is plenty safe for the purpose of automatic
: > : updates. On the other hand, any home user directly connected to the
: > : Internet without a router is playing worm-roulette regardless of
whether
: > or
: > : not they patch online or offline.
: > :
: > : I imagine the same is true for domain networks. What business has
: > domain
: > : client computers in the DMZ?
: > :
: > : carl
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:

 

[Dan]

Well I can see both sides of the coin and so unfortunately have no further
comment unless someone else comments and something comes to mind.

:
: | >
: | > : | > |I think that may be true but at least Microsoft is making things more
: | > | difficult for hackers. In addition since 9-11-01 our lives in the
: U.S.
: | > are
: | > | more difficult and inconvenient but I thank the stars above that I
: still
: | > have
: | > | more freedom then oppressive regimes around the world in places like
: | > Syria.
: | >
: | > Yeah, really groovy. MS' new program has this as a basis: guilty until
: | > proven innocent. How "American" and non "Syrian" is that?
: | > --
: |
: | If your copy of Windows is genuine then you have no issue at all with
: | support for Windows download or how so ever WGA is extended to ensure
only
: | legitimate Windows opertaing system licensed users are supported.
: | --
: |
: | Regards,
: |
: | Mike
: | --
: | Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
:
: Like I said, paying customers with genuine copies of Windows are assumed to
: be guilty until they can prove their innocence by passing the WGA test. Not
: good PR, Microsoft and a PITA. For the crackers and pirates, all WGA does
is
: provide another cracking challenge and so the pissing contest continues
with
: paying customers caught in the crossfire.
: --
: Alias
:
: Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
: Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.
:
:

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Like I said, paying customers with genuine copies of Windows are assumed
to
be guilty until they can prove their innocence by passing the WGA test.
Not
good PR, Microsoft and a PITA. For the crackers and pirates, all WGA does
is
provide another cracking challenge and so the pissing contest continues
with
paying customers caught in the crossfire.
--

No one is being assumed of any guilt.
A legitimate user can use Windows download without any issues - where is the
implication of assumed guilt in that ?
They click a button and they get there download.
Does having a key to your front door assume you are guilty of not having a
right of access to your own home ? - no it ensures that only persons you
want to allow access have access and "helps" to keep the other out.


--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

Thanks for your post Mike and will there be more information for illegal
users especially the ones who do not realize they are using illegal
software
to get legal software. Will a discount be made available for them? In
addition, will there be any Microsoft programs to help out the poor and
disadvantaged who are using illegal copies? I know companies need to make
money in order for our capitalistic society to work but I still think we
need
to help the less fortunate. Thanks in advance and I appreciate any
response
and value the response(s) greatly.

Dan,

(the follow addresses the issue from the perspective of a purchaser of a
pirate copy without knowledge of that piracy - not the deliberate piracy)

The current situation is that if an when you find out you have an illegal
copy of Windows XP that was installed on your PC without your knowledge
(preinstalled by the seller etc) then you need to address this with them.
If you cannot resolve this issue with them then as you have no right to use
that product you must purchase a full copy of Windows XP to legitimize your
system if you wish to continue to use that product.
We currently do not offer discounts as this would be akin to you buying a
stolen car without your knowledge and then expecting the manufacturer to
allow you to buy one for a reduced price once your use of stolen goods was
revealed.
It is very important that anyone using Windows or buying a PC with Windows
preinstalled or supplied with it ensures that they are legitimate.
We make this information available at http://www.howtotell.com/ and
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/default.mspx

We make no distinction between social status or financial capabilities in
this matter. We offer Windows under various programs and licensing terms to
various classes of user (students, charities etc). Microsoft has engaged in
a number of projects to assist in PC awareness and access for more
disadvantaged sectors of various communities.
--

Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

 

[Alias]

| >>
| > Like I said, paying customers with genuine copies of Windows are assumed
| > to
| > be guilty until they can prove their innocence by passing the WGA test.
| > Not
| > good PR, Microsoft and a PITA. For the crackers and pirates, all WGA
does
| > is
| > provide another cracking challenge and so the pissing contest continues
| > with
| > paying customers caught in the crossfire.
| > --
|
| No one is being assumed of any guilt.

Then why the test? The test, INTRINSICALLY, assumes guilt. If no guilt were
assumed, there would be no test for those who have activated.

| A legitimate user can use Windows download without any issues - where is
the
| implication of assumed guilt in that ?

The test, obviously.

| They click a button and they get there download.

If they pass the test. How do we know that real MS XP software will pass the
test? And, if it doesn't, what recourse does the paying customer have to
PROVE HIS OR HER INNOCENCE?

| Does having a key to your front door assume you are guilty of not having a
| right of access to your own home ? - no it ensures that only persons you
| want to allow access have access and "helps" to keep the other out.

Bad analogy. I already opened the door with the activation key and, lo and
behold, there is another door. Once the crackers get around that door, will
there be another ad infinitum?
|
|
| --
|
| Regards,
|
| Mike
| --
| Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

Like I said, the only ones who will suffer from this are paying customers,
especially non techie paying customers. The crackers will get around it. Is
there anything MS has done that you *don't* support?