Why are PC sales declining ? (Skybuck thoughts on it too)

[mike]

That's my thought... gain is cheap too!

What the heck are you guys doing with all that RAM?

I have win7-32bit running on a P4 with 2GB ram.
I ran it that way with no swap file for months.
I did decide to re-enable the swap file when I discovered
that I couldn't run XP and Linux simultaneously in virtualbox.

I've got more ram. Just can't see any reason to crawl under
the table to install it.
I don't normally hibernate, but I've had laptops where big
ram made it take longer to return from hibernation than to boot
in the first place.

I've also got a dual-core system with twice the horsepower
and 4GB of ram. I'm sure you can come up with an example,
but
for what I do, I can't feel enough improvement make it worth
switching computers.

 

[John Devereux]

What the heck are you guys doing with all that RAM?

I have win7-32bit running on a P4 with 2GB ram.
I ran it that way with no swap file for months.
I did decide to re-enable the swap file when I discovered
that I couldn't run XP and Linux simultaneously in virtualbox.

Only thing I know of is indeed for running virtual machines. Which I
would absolutely be doing a lot of if I was stuck with windows

I suppose editing a big video or something but I don't do that.

 

[Martin Brown]

Reception in the UK to that move by Microsoft has been pretty hostile.
I don't know of any corporates even thinking about it.

I think Microsoft will probably have to relent again on the XP
discontinuation - there are just too many really big corporates dragging
their heals on it. Otherwise they will find third party hackers
supporting it - and/or they will get the blame for the wild botnets on a
large unmaintained rump of hackable XP computers on the net. Stats today
show a high proportion of XP still in web traffic.

Weblogs for connections show something like:

Win7 33%, iPad 20%, XP 20%, Unknown 15%
iPhone, Vista, Linux 5% NT, Android 2%

Win8 might be hiding in "unknown" I suppose, or is not on the radar.

Browsers are similar.

IE 33%, Safari 25%, Unknown 20%, Chrome 15%, Firefox 10%, ...

Chilling picture you have painted with this "paid content delivery
vehicle".
I complain about the $45 dollar internet "month after month after
month" bill.

What do you get for that? Unlimited use of dedicated fibre back to the
cabinet? A typical price in the UK would be $30+ for business or as low
as $5 for a home user. The early adopter price was about $25 way back.

BT Infinity 38Mbps including TV and all phone calls is about £40 pcm.

Oh, I think the slide in PC sales has to do with mobile.
I have a friend that got a smart phone from his daughter and now
he rarely uses his home computer. My daughter has a smart phone
and use her laptop only if she has a long email to type. Her hubby
still uses the laptop, but for Youtube videos mostly. And as you know
Youtube videos can be accessed on many TV's now and more in the future.

Mikek

I think the desktop or under desk PC is largely dead for consumers now.
They may buy some sort of quiet media centre box to store programmes and
stream music on but they don't need to use it for general computing.

Laptops still hold some market share but Android is making rapid inroads
into the market with small cheap sexy tablets.

 

[Martin Brown]

What the heck are you guys doing with all that RAM?

Video editing, large photographic images, computer chess. All of these
benefit from having lots of fast memory available to work in. 8G will
let me do any two of these simultaneously with normal work. I often have
a chess analysis running in the background whilst I am working.

I have win7-32bit running on a P4 with 2GB ram.
I ran it that way with no swap file for months.
I did decide to re-enable the swap file when I discovered
that I couldn't run XP and Linux simultaneously in virtualbox.

If you only ever read emails or do simple things then you can get by
with a lot less. Never tried Win7 on anything less than 4G and these
days I wouldn't even consider installing the 32bit version.

 

[JW]

Microsoft must FORCE you, kicking and screaming, into that paradigm.
I'd bet that "pressing the XP kill switch" comes up at every strategy
meeting. As soon as the perceived backlash is acceptable, it will
happen. "The XP activation site is no longer available. Your XP
license has expired...your computer will be crippled in 30 days.
Click here to purchase and update to windows 12...
sorry for any inconvenience."

That's not going to happen. Microsoft has stated publicly that when they
shut down the activation servers for XP, that a patch will be released
that will removes the activation requirement.

 

[Martin Brown]

That's not going to happen. Microsoft has stated publicly that when they
shut down the activation servers for XP, that a patch will be released
that will removes the activation requirement.

That should see the number of installed copies of XP double overnight!

 

[mike]

I understand that it's what they said. But you sniped the rest of the
scenario. If software you want won't run on xp, you're still screwed.
Win8 obsoleted 90% of my computers (P4) by requiring NX-bit support.
They did it in the name of security, but it was a conscious decision
to force hardware upgrades. Pre-release win8 ran fine without it.
That also starts another ripple that seeks to inhibit other OS's
with the secure boot stuff. It's all about spin.

Bottom line is that the old way of faster and faster has run out of
steam. The game user is the only part of the end-user desktop
demographic that still needs faster and faster.

They gotta force obsolescence on the rest of us. They will find a way.

That should see the number of installed copies of XP double overnight!

Good point!
But the ping-pong advances in hardware and software make it unprofitable
for hardware vendors to update drivers. It's a win-win for everybody but
the end user.

I'd still be using Win2K if it had hardware drivers.

 

[mike]

On 4/19/2013 12:46 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
Never tried Win7 on anything less than 4G and these

days I wouldn't even consider installing the 32bit version.

Kinda hard to put 64-bit on a 32-bit computer.
Your hardware budget must be bigger than mine.

$1 and under garage sale 64-bit dual-core systems are
just becoming available, but the damn things don't have
enough hardware I/O ports or PCI slots to keep everything running.

 

[Uwe Hercksen]

Most people don't need a computer, because they don't compute. A tablet does
email, twitter, facebook, browsing, and games. It's quiet, portable, reliable,
and doesn't have a tangle of cables, monitors, power strips, all that junk under
your desk. The decline is probably long-term. HP, Microsoft, Dell, maybe Oracle
are dinosaurs.

Hello,

some time ago, the dinosaurs were Control Data, Cray, Vax and other
mainframes. Now the time for the next generation of dinosaurs has come.

Bye

 

[Martin Brown]

I understand that it's what they said. But you sniped the rest of the
scenario. If software you want won't run on xp, you're still screwed.
Win8 obsoleted 90% of my computers (P4) by requiring NX-bit support.
They did it in the name of security, but it was a conscious decision
to force hardware upgrades. Pre-release win8 ran fine without it.
That also starts another ripple that seeks to inhibit other OS's
with the secure boot stuff. It's all about spin.

Bottom line is that the old way of faster and faster has run out of
steam. The game user is the only part of the end-user desktop
demographic that still needs faster and faster.

I used to have a rule of thumb that I would buy a new PC or laptop
whenever the performance of a new one was more than three times the old.
This was typically about every three years since 1985. Back then they
typically cost around £2k+ and were decidedly specialist kit.

Moore's law has basically run out of steam at a clock speed at 4GHz
without increasing the core count. And the processors have now become so
powerful that domestic users have no need of any more horsepower.

OTOH Gamers, scientists and engineers will always find a way to use ever
more computing power.

The gamers have practically driven the evolution of high end realtime
graphics cards with powerful rendering engines and texture maps. They
will probably continue to do so but are reaching the laws of diminishing
returns once you get above 80fps at full HD resolution.

They gotta force obsolescence on the rest of us. They will find a way.

I think they will struggle to do that.

Good point!

But the ping-pong advances in hardware and software make it unprofitable
for hardware vendors to update drivers. It's a win-win for everybody but
the end user.

The end user is there only to be exploited.

I'd still be using Win2K if it had hardware drivers.

Better than Win ME I suppose, but only just.

I can run versions right back to Win95 if I have to but these days it is
rare to need to test on anything before XP.

 

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Question is: why are PC sales declining ?:
What are your thoughts on the decline ?

I would say people are just happy with the games on mobile devices! They
want mobility rather than a sitting duck, though the duck is a lot more
powerful.

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[marc]

4. Sick of overheat and associated problems ? (maybe... I am surely sick of
it )

"When the water is cooling, the universe will expand".

"the universe will expand, when the water is cooling"


--

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

Hello,

some time ago, the dinosaurs were Control Data, Cray, Vax and other
mainframes. Now the time for the next generation of dinosaurs has come.

Bye

In the '80s Goodwill Industries was getting bids by steel scrap haulers
on donated mainframe racks... hoards of 'em. Literally tons of big
computer grade caps and fans and other stuff could have been salvaged.

That was way back then.

 

[Jasen Betts]

What the heck are you guys doing with all that RAM?

disk cache!

 

[MrTallyman]

disk cache!

Muy estupido.

cache? not.

I used "speeddisk" back when software based caching actually had
benefit (286/386 days). It does not with today's drives and I/O buses.

I used a whole, considered huge at the time 16MB hardware based caching
hard drive controller back when *that* had benefit.

It no longer does or there would be cards still being made.

Even big cloud racks full of hard drives use the hard drives themselves
to get max throughput and there is no caching.

My cheap ACER laptop with a Seagate SATA 6GB/s 750GB HD+ 8GB SSD boots
in 15 seconds flat to Win7.

Oh and what THIRD PARTY application are you using to 'create' a
'RAM_Disk' with?

 

[Jasen Betts]

Muy estupido.

cache? not.

I used "speeddisk" back when software based caching actually had
benefit (286/386 days). It does not with today's drives and I/O buses.

As always, wrong!

Disk cache is built into modern OS kernels. The OS keeps track of what
you've accessed from, or recent written to the disk in the otherwise
unused memory.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: (e-mail address removed) ---

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Hiya George,

Building a good gaming rig is not easy, I tried myself, and you can google
for the results, it was a pain in the ass.

Problems faced: overheat, dust collection.

Having said that.

The latest and greatest graphics card is the nvidia titan. Even a super
computer was named after it.

However one would have to make sure the power supply can handle it and
perhaps the motherboard as well.

The titan probably gets hot though, so a passively cooled graphics card is
interesting too though they not as powerfull.

Perhaps a mid range card is safest.

Also a good case is needed for ventilation.

You mentioned upgrading an old desktop and then you mention buying a new one
?

I am a bit confused about that.

If truely upgrading have to be carefull that all components can handle it.

If buying a new one, perhaps being a computer from a specialized gaming rig
company is an idea.

Perhaps they can throw it some nice water cooling... or just a decently
designed air cooled PC.

It all depends on the budget

Minecraft is probably not the most demanding game but you also mentioned
overheat of laptop... so you are familiar with the overheat topic

Dell is probably crap, HP is probably crap too... a little bit less crap
though just cheap... at least my mothers HP still running barely... it
little used though... my sister bought a Dell it died

All computers seem to die lately

1.) should I buy from Dell? (I've used them in the past.)

If you lazy perhaps yes, or give Alien Ware a try or so <- they
selling gaming rigs if I am not mistaken

2.) Which operating system. I was thinking of win8... but now you've
all made me nervous, but I wouold like some newer version of windows
(running XP at home and work.) moslty becasue the kids will be using
the newer version in school. So maybe Win7?

Perhaps wait a bit for the new windows 8.1 operating system.

It would suck having to buy windows 7 with all those services packs and
patches... it would be patching 2 days at least.

Also it's on the way out so not really future ready ?! More and more games
will start focussing on windows 8...

3.) How much memory? I figured 8 or 12G.

It's a bit overkill but always good to have more.

Even my system with 4 GB ram only uses 3.2 and it works fine.

If you want to be future proof get 8GB otherwise spent the money on
something else.

4.) Do I need the fancy graphics cards for gaming? (My thought was I
could let my son pitch in for a better card if that's needed.)

Yes for good gaming a graphics card is needed/essential.

I see more and more games using CUDA, so getting an NVIDIA card would be
wise plus I am a slight nvidia fan so I may be biased

I hope to have been of some help, trust me it not easy

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

I think PC sales are declining because Skybuck finally got one to work.

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

Hiya George,

Building a good gaming rig is not easy, I tried myself, and you can google
for the results, it was a pain in the ass.

You are an idiot. you proved it yourself. Time and time again.

Problems faced: overheat, dust collection.

You are an idiot... proven with your retarded posts... Time and time
again.

Having said that.

You didn't say anything, dumbass.

The latest and greatest graphics card is the nvidia titan. Even a super
computer was named after it.

And it is the last thing a dumbass like you needs to be trying to get
installed. and working.

However one would have to make sure the power supply can handle it and
perhaps the motherboard as well.

Perhaps? Perhaps you are a clueless twit who should not be attempting
to guide anyone's PC build endeavors.

The titan probably gets hot though, so a passively cooled graphics card is
interesting too though they not as powerfull.

And we need you to deliver these common sense bits of info? No. We
can see perfectly fine when we choose our video cards. We can weigh all
the factors just fine. We do not need an utter idiot, who can't even
keep a single machine running, trying to tell folks about computer parts.
One repost of one of your stupid rants where you blame things on stupid
reasons which were not even true and folks would see that your brain is
no more than eleven years of age in term of maturity, and your knowledge
is not much more advanced than that.

Perhaps a mid range card is safest.

Also a good case is needed for ventilation.

You mentioned upgrading an old desktop and then you mention buying a new one
?

I am a bit confused about that.

And that never happens, right?

If truely upgrading have to be carefull that all components can handle it.

Really? can't just buy a bunch of parts that will not work together
and mash them together anyway?

Do you ever say anything that isn't already an obvious requisite?

If buying a new one, perhaps being a computer from a specialized gaming rig
company is an idea.

Only for dorks like you, where Mommy is signing the check.

Perhaps they can throw it some nice water cooling... or just a decently
designed air cooled PC.

It all depends on the budget

And locking it in a cage so YOU can't lay your hands on it and break
it, like all the others you touched.

Minecraft is probably not the most demanding game but you also mentioned
overheat of laptop... so you are familiar with the overheat topic

There are plenty of games that fully tax the PC.

Dell is probably crap, HP is probably crap too... a little bit less crap
though just cheap... at least my mothers HP still running barely... it
little used though... my sister bought a Dell it died

Before or after you touched it?

All computers seem to die lately

Before or after you touch them?

1.) should I buy from Dell? (I've used them in the past.)

If you lazy perhaps yes, or give Alien Ware a try or so <- they
selling gaming rigs if I am not mistaken

So, do you act like you are guessing your way through life, or are you
really actually guessing your way through life?

2.) Which operating system. I was thinking of win8... but now you've
all made me nervous, but I wouold like some newer version of windows
(running XP at home and work.) moslty becasue the kids will be using
the newer version in school. So maybe Win7?

Perhaps wait a bit for the new windows 8.1 operating system.

It would suck having to buy windows 7 with all those services packs and
patches... it would be patching 2 days at least.

You're an idiot. A complete and utter stooge.

Also it's on the way out so not really future ready ?! More and more games
will start focussing on windows 8...

3.) How much memory? I figured 8 or 12G.

It's a bit overkill but always good to have more.

Even my system with 4 GB ram only uses 3.2 and it works fine.

If you want to be future proof get 8GB otherwise spent the money on
something else.

The only thing you have ever said that even comes close to being right.

4.) Do I need the fancy graphics cards for gaming? (My thought was I
could let my son pitch in for a better card if that's needed.)

Yes for good gaming a graphics card is needed/essential.

For ALL computer use, a graphics card is essential, idiot. For gaming
a "fairly good" graphics card is needed.

I see more and more games using CUDA, so getting an NVIDIA card would be
wise plus I am a slight nvidia fan so I may be biased

I hope to have been of some help, trust me it not easy

Not with you and all your bent perceptions at the helm.

 

[Flasherly]

I think PC sales are declining because Skybuck finally got one to work.

M$ reported 16% or 18% profits across the board this week. Not the
case with Intel. IBM as well I'd imagine in a more restrictively
tightening of care from a defensive and watchful stance.

Also saw and 7" screen on an Android device powered by a CPU running
around 1.3Ghz. Interesting thing about that, indeed, is the reality
scale it incorporated: a reality as according to a Chinese production
models. And the price more specifically - $67US.

Wonderbar. Note that word and send it via a courier to the
appropriate Chinese emissary.

At $67 - while listening to an imagined sound of floors caving through
for $800 Samsung counterparts - how long is it going to take,
seriously, to accelerate to exhaust the resources of what, exactly,
these handhelds are capable. . .

Might people recant then, just possibly with a squeak to say -- Duarn
it, I wish I had all the capabilities of a real computer and what a
real PC can do.

Who are these people I see short-stroking it? Are their inimitable
interests one reporting behind an industry, one and same, so being
probably paid by them, too, in an attempt to shift greater control and
influence into paid/leased distribution resources limited to cloud
distribution centers? Pretty big letter to fit for such small
screens, methinks.

This whole last year seems so surreal. I could just puke. I cannot
believe they'd trot up with their cell phones to call them oh so much
smarter phones, now, than PCs. Like a national moratorium on the wire
fences surrounding pre-schooler's recess yard had been removed after
another particularly effective propaganda campaign, and they'd all
filed up in the long unemployment lines stretching from Twitter to the
IT publishing houses.