Fanless or near fanless PC 2014 ? (sub 5 watts)


S

Skybuck Flying

Hello,

This processor has caught my eye, it's a sub 5 watt processor from intel, it
has latest features and even a graphics chip inside of it ?!

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-broadwell-core-m,27596.html

This reminds me of the 80486 chip which also didn't have a heatsink or a
fan.

I checked my pentium 166, it still came with a heatsink and a fan.

I very much like the idea of a chip without a fan. A heatsink could still be
possible though.

So perhaps a slightly hotter chip is still possible for a PC design.

I wonder: does this core m chip come with a passive heatsink for laptop, and
what about pc/desktop ?

There was mention of a docking system with fan to increase performance ? How
so ? Can the chip run faster ? Does it use thermal throttling ?

Anyway, using such a chip for a fanless or nearly fanless PC would also
require other components without a fan.

My main worry would be the motherboard which could also have a tiny little
shitty noisy fan which would ruin the design.

Other points of worry are harddisks, though these don't seem to generate
that much heat.

And ram chips... not sure what there tdp would be.

The 80486 PC did come with a fan in the power supply... not sure why that
fan was there... probably too cool the power supply itself but possibly also
for some airflow through case otherwise temperature may rise... which seems
somewhat logical.

So perhaps truely fanless system not possible, except maybe with conducting
the heat away via heatsinks outside of case.

I am very much interested in a fanless PC desktop design, but it has to be
somewhat powerfull at running applications/games.

So I have some questions about this core m chip:

1. How does it compare to an AMD X2 3800+ dual core chip from 2006 ? ;)
(manufactured in 2001?!)

Is core M slower, equal or faster than this AMD chip ?

2. Is core M capable of running company of heroes 2 at some decent graphics
settings and frame rate ? that would be nice ! ;) (at least company of
heroes 1 can be considered best game of all time, not yet sure if coh2 is
any good ;) but I sure wanna try it)

3. core M should also be capable of running warcraft frozen throne, another
great game with many many many mods, which make it a lot of fun.

4. Video playback should be smooth.

5. Internet browsing should be smooth as well.

I am hoping yes is the answer to all these 5 questions, if 2 is no, that's
kinda ok.

I want to know:

1. What motherboards are available for core m which can also be used for
desktop designs ? These motherboard must not have any fan on them.

2. Additional components are also nice to know... ram chips and such.

3. Also power supply capable of dissipating this heat away/out of case
without requiring a fan would be very cool... I think heatsinks didn't exist
during the time of the 80486 so this could be a chance to create a really
cool, noiseless PC, except maybe for the harddisk slightly rattling but
that's ok I think ;).

My main wish is too just have a PC which does not require any cleaning... as
to not break things because of cleaning... also safes time.

Also I want this PC to be capable of running software to it's maximum
potential/maximum cpu/gpu strain without overheating the system or causing
other thermal issues.

Think of highly intensive cpu processing, perhaps bitcoin, or evolutionary
software, or folding, rendering, gaming, any kind of high cpu/gpu/intensive
computing.

This desktop PC design should also be able to function at ambient
temperatures of 35 degrees celcius perhaps even 40 degrees celcius now with
rising global temperatures ;) So this PC should be capable of running
through a summer's heat at a breeze/without breaking a sweat ;).

What disappoints me about the chip is:

Only 2 cores, though it can run 4 threads.

Very small cpu cores, compared to the gpu core.... not sure if having
cpu+gpu on one chip offers some kind of performance adventage.
At the same time it's kinda nice though, only 4.5 watts for cpu+gpu !

However a different chip could also be considered in combination with a
seperated gpu chip.

Assuming both chips can run at 4.5 watts max, and still be cooled by a
passive cooling system.

I would then probably prefer a 4, 8-core or 16 core cpu with large L1
caches. (L1 cache size is usuable kept secret apperently, kinda annoying)
very important cache.

GPU should then also run at 4.5 watts. I'm afraid such a gpu simply does not
exist... so this is kinda surprising from intel. Seems like intel turning
into a graphics company more than a cpu company ;)

Though AMD did same with ATI purchase... weird isn't it :)

I have yet to come across a competing product from AMD which can compete
with core M... perhaps AMD does not want to compete for this segment ? Or
perhaps it does and I am unaware of it at this moment... so please do share
product suggestions.

2016 is still far away... as some of you may know I was hoping for an arm
based system in 2016... but to wait another 2 years is kinda painfull...
even 1 year is kinda painfull.

Also intel has some very nice instruction set extensions which seem
promising. I am not sure how many clock cycles those new instructions
take... like aes, or bmi, or crc32, some data on that would also be nice. (I
think broadwell also has the mulx instruction for multi-byte arithmetic
enhancements, well done intel ! pretty amazing ! ;))

(Skylake with the sha/bitcoin instruction would also be very fun to have,
but probably too far away for now ;))

Another reason for my interest in a new PC is my current PC is sucking up a
lllllllooottttt of dust and making a lllloottt of noise... and I am kinda
sick of it... and web browsing has become somewhat slow/sluggish.... also
youtube sluggish and so forth. Some more speed from a new system would be
nice... it could speed up my day a bit... and save some time as well...

I am scared to run intense software on my current system (google skybuck's
dream pc from 2006 to get an idea what it is).

I am scared it will suck something up and/or cause an overheat, or damage to
ram chips because of stuff sucked in.

Only thing that worries me with a fanless design is harddisk damage cause of
overheat... anybody have any experience with running hitachi deskstar or
ultrastar harddisk in fanless systems ? Does it work ? Or does it crash the
harddisk ? (Harddisk have some ram chips nowadays as well, probably causing
some heat). I think it needs some airflow to keep cool, not sure though.

So basically I kinda want the same technology that's inside laptop's or
tablet but with more room to breath, but coupled to my BIG-ASS monitor and
BIG-ASS keyboard and a bit more ooppmmh if possible.

(I'd like the system to have overheat protection just in case, so system
must completely shutdown in the case of overheat whatever it's doing. My
current system/motherboard (winfast) has that and it's kinda nice ;))

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
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S

Skybuck Flying

I need to clarify something though.

The scare about running software 24/7 also has to do with the internet,
software, windows, acrobat, flash, and all kinds of updating going on.

Nowadays system gets bothered with nags about software updates, especially
windows itself can shutdown the system without ever asking.

Other software might perhaps do it on startup... but not sure.

So Microsoft itself has kinda made me scared of running software 24/7
because of their updates.

Scarey idea to be running a heavy-duty evolver and suddenly this update-crap
starts which can fail/rollback and have all kinds of annoying consequences.

Could also jeapordize final results or influence calculations etc.

Though this updating behaviour can be termined/disabled but then system is
at risk of hacking attempt which is even more scarier lol.

So all I am saying is leaving it unattended... hmmmm bad idea nowadays.

May have to think about a seperated system/computer disconnected from
internet, to run task nonstop ;)

But if system must be connected to internet to run the task and update stuff
to the net then you can start to see the problem a bit ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
P

Paul

Skybuck said:
I need to clarify something though.

The scare about running software 24/7 also has to do with the internet,
software, windows, acrobat, flash, and all kinds of updating going on.

Nowadays system gets bothered with nags about software updates,
especially windows itself can shutdown the system without ever asking.

Other software might perhaps do it on startup... but not sure.

So Microsoft itself has kinda made me scared of running software 24/7
because of their updates.

Scarey idea to be running a heavy-duty evolver and suddenly this
update-crap starts which can fail/rollback and have all kinds of
annoying consequences.

Could also jeapordize final results or influence calculations etc.

Though this updating behaviour can be termined/disabled but then system
is at risk of hacking attempt which is even more scarier lol.

So all I am saying is leaving it unattended... hmmmm bad idea nowadays.

May have to think about a seperated system/computer disconnected from
internet, to run task nonstop ;)

But if system must be connected to internet to run the task and update
stuff to the net then you can start to see the problem a bit ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.

Automatic updates on Windows Update, may require a reboot. I
run Windows Update manually, as the quickest means to control
that.

As for other kinds of updates, no, they should not affect the
integrity of a long-term calculation. I can safely run a 1TB
file through 7ZIP compression, and no matter how many times
Adobe Flash or Java updates itself while that is going on,
still get the exact same result. Updates don't have to be
destructive.

*******

The little 5W PC designs, will be optimized for playing
Hollywood movie content. And not for any serious purpose.
The processor will be soldered to the PCB, so you cannot
upgrade, and it's also expensive at $281 each. If you ran
Prime95 on it, it'll be running at 1.1GHz due to throttling.
If you browse the web with it, the "pulses of computing"
mean the average temperature will be better and so the
CPU stays running at a higher (turbo) speed. It'll be a
better match for "content consumption" users than
"content creator" users. It won't run Crysis at 60FPS.

And Intel are marketing geniuses when it comes to pricing.
Stick with mainstream products, to avoid paying
"too much for nothing". The 5W product is just a
tease, and is not mainstream-worthy. When the 1W processor
comes out, the price on the 5W processors will then
be a decent price.

The best thing to do, is find a review of the new 5W processor,
and see how the power throttling affects stuff the reviewer
tries to do. I don't see the point in wasting $1000 on
some box, test it for ten minutes, and conclude it's a dud.

They've made progress on power, but for your usage pattern,
expect they've maybe chopped the power in half, and you'll
still need a fan. Just a smaller fan. With a reasonable
power target (compared to your X2), you'll also be able
to adjust the selection of processor, for one with a better
price. I can see an Intel dual core for $117 for example.
Which is better than $281 for a thermally throttled tablet CPU.

The only reason Intel makes these, is to prevent market
erosion from ARM CPU products. They have to make compromises
to get to that power level. And let some reviewer figure out
what those compromises are. Save your money for something
a bit more worthwhile.

Paul
 
F

Flasherly

The best thing to do, is find a review of the new 5W processor,
and see how the power throttling affects stuff the reviewer
tries to do. I don't see the point in wasting $1000 on
some box, test it for ten minutes, and conclude it's a dud.

16micron fabrication is heavy stuff (probably never owned anything
below 65nm yet, myself). AMD on the other side with all their various
125watt quads - bit of a wider gamut than expected, at least for me,
since when 3Ghz and early dual cores were widely realized as both for
limitations and a scalar direction of computing in a future of
parallel processing.

So now that's a 5Ghz potential with 4Ghz the new norm (for high end),
and a magnitude ten times smaller than yesterday's 90/100micron
lithography/fab technology.

I mean already and hardly out, at least for that Haswell (G3258
50w/20micron) -- it's just an offset of above 10micron and the reviews
are already in. Also, took awhile for Intel to iron out some inherent
problems in going that small. It's the only and counterwise Intel
released that's clock multiplier unlocked -- at a common expectation
of near 4Ghz results (1.5Ghz for some).

And they are loving it up so much they could literally eat that
processor alive.

I don't care that much to overclock. Less bang per thrill these days
for me. More interesting is how it's being price angled ('Master
Play' - as you say) -- notably I've seen it now twice packaged-dealt
by Newegg for effectively peanuts. Two cheap(est) mini-PC form build
MBs, both times in the neighborhood of $75 with MB & a G3258 included.
To me that's saying around potential $25 base/inside wholesale cost
for each, factoring for Newegg to shave off maybe $20 profit off a
sale like that. And that's with Haswells just coming out. AMD's
already been placed a few months already at $40 with their lineup of
"throttled" quad cores -- Intel's just putting a different spin on
their end of the game with 4+Ghz.

For lowend priced new processing offerings - I think it's a hell'va
kick, advantages for advanced technology and what's possible now.
Disadvantages: not too crazy, at all, about little dinky MBs with no
slots to realize the bottom price line. Nor do I know much at all
about what it would take and what issues might be involved with, for
the most, graphic-subsets included on these "bargain" CPUs. Sure as
Jupiter's Great & Hairy Blue Balls of Lightening, I'm not buying one
for Windows 8 or 9 compliance factors (nor, however encouraging the
thought, *nix variants).

But I'm cool with pushing 10micron and heating ramifications. Get's
the jobs done with enough power to spare, I'm definitely cool with
that. Nope, not even asking to give up a token fan. Even my stereo
units, old and new toroidal transformer technology push a lot of heat,
tend to like 130F operation ranges -- then, when I add in the vacuum
amps (around 500F at the emitters) on top of solidstate amps, just
imagine: Why, hello Hades!, it must be Summertime in Hell. (Though I
don't hear any advocacy groups setting themselves on fire in
candle-lit protests against 100 modern years of electrical usages.)
 
R

rickman

I need to clarify something though.

The scare about running software 24/7 also has to do with the internet,
software, windows, acrobat, flash, and all kinds of updating going on.

Nowadays system gets bothered with nags about software updates,
especially windows itself can shutdown the system without ever asking.

Worse it can start up a PC on its own. I have an XP desktop that can
start itself from the OFF state. I don't know if this is from the
network card or what. But usually when it does turn itself on when I
turn it off it does a Windows update.

Other software might perhaps do it on startup... but not sure.

So Microsoft itself has kinda made me scared of running software 24/7
because of their updates.

You can turn off the automatic updating.

Scarey idea to be running a heavy-duty evolver and suddenly this
update-crap starts which can fail/rollback and have all kinds of
annoying consequences.

Could also jeapordize final results or influence calculations etc.

Though this updating behaviour can be termined/disabled but then system
is at risk of hacking attempt which is even more scarier lol.

It was at risk before the update was available, so what changes? When
do you want to do the updates?

So all I am saying is leaving it unattended... hmmmm bad idea nowadays.

May have to think about a seperated system/computer disconnected from
internet, to run task nonstop ;)

But if system must be connected to internet to run the task and update
stuff to the net then you can start to see the problem a bit ;)

Yeah, get used to it.
 
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S

Skybuck Flying

Thanks for your postings,

Atom is probably too weak.

SSD is out of the question. I think defragging over regular harddisks
prevents the magnets from aligning with the earth's magnetic field
re-assuring data integrity.

For SSD's defragging would be bad, it would speed up the use of their
limited read-write cycles.

Linux could be an interesting idea though, less windows nags ;) perhaps a
bootable DVD. I would still be a little bit worried that linux might
overheat the system. Does linux have CPU throttling capabilities like
windows has for the sumer time ? ;)

Dell is known to be crap lol.

Web servers, email, ftp etc, all very low usage scenerios as far as I am
concerned, especially if it's a personal website, with 1 daily visiters or
less ;) now if it was facebook it may be a different story lol.

Your reply is a typical: I used a garbage computer to run garbage occasional
software.

If you want to run instead windows, which could be considered garbage as
well just to make you a little bit happy, there is the possibilities of the
svchost.exe bug which only that alone will already make the CPU run at 50%
(100% core usage of one core) for many many minutes after boot ! ;)

Which would already be a higher usage then your webserver scenerio ;) That's
the funny part.

Try running company of heroes on your PCs and then get bombed by firestorms
and newbelwerfers non-stop, now that would be a good test if it doesn't
crash the game... The funny thing is the fire that is displayed actually
usage some CPU/GPU intensive shader which sometimes makes my PC overheat !
;)
Totally funny, it can also make the game crash.

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
S

Skybuck Flying

Yeah you right on the spot with the auto turn-on.

I have also seen some freaky shit with that.

For example if I just gently touch the backplate of the PC near the network
card it will actually turn the PC on from sleep mode ?!

How weird is that ?!

Also sometimes I wake up and the PC is running... either because it's sleep
mode didn't fully complete and started upgrades and let the PC run all
night.

Or something else happened like mini earth quake, or truck driving by or
neighbour bumping around and I think this moves the USB mouse and then
switches on the PC ?! Woopsie totally weird.

Ofcourse some of this behaviour could be turned of in the BIOS possibily...
but still weird that it's so sensitive ?! wow...

Yup... maybe vacuum cleaner turning it on.. or touching usb ports... other
possibilities probably exists too.

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
R

rickman

Yeah you right on the spot with the auto turn-on.

I have also seen some freaky shit with that.

For example if I just gently touch the backplate of the PC near the
network card it will actually turn the PC on from sleep mode ?!

This is not sleep mode. This is a desktop and is *off*, shut down...
has to boot windows to come up again.
 
N

Nick Maclaren

I've had a Linux web server with email, ssh, ftp, etc. services as well
the web server, running at home for more than a decade. Long ago, I got
hacked a couple of times, now I think I have the security set high enough
so that the idiots and even the pros are prelly well locked out.

No way. I have mine set up a bit higher than that, but it wouldn't
survive for long against a serious attack. As with all military
strategy, the question is which side is going to put more effort
and ingenuity in than the other. That being done, it then comes
down to luck. As in logistic regression ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
N

Nick Maclaren

I've had a Linux web server with email, ssh, ftp, etc. services as well
the web server, running at home for more than a decade. Long ago, I got
hacked a couple of times, now I think I have the security set high enough
so that the idiots and even the pros are prelly well locked out.

No way. I run a similar, but significantly more locked-down, system
and it wouldn't stop even a lone professional. Let alone organised
crime, like MI5, the CIA, Mossad or the Mafia.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
 
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B

bruce56

VIA (remember them?) have been making fanless CPUs for donkeys years,
for set-top boxes, cash registers and so on.
 
F

Flasherly

VIA (remember them?) have been making fanless CPUs for donkeys years,
for set-top boxes, cash registers and so on.

Weren't they at one point Cyrix from pre-X586 (Pentium pin sockets),
aka 486 processors -- a merger/acquisition of the two?
 
P

Paul E Bennett

Skybuck said:
Hello,

This processor has caught my eye, it's a sub 5 watt processor from intel,
it has latest features and even a graphics chip inside of it ?!

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-broadwell-core-m,27596.html

This reminds me of the 80486 chip which also didn't have a heatsink or a
fan.

I checked my pentium 166, it still came with a heatsink and a fan.

I very much like the idea of a chip without a fan. A heatsink could still
be possible though.

So perhaps a slightly hotter chip is still possible for a PC design.

I wonder: does this core m chip come with a passive heatsink for laptop,
and what about pc/desktop ?

There was mention of a docking system with fan to increase performance ?
How so ? Can the chip run faster ? Does it use thermal throttling ?

Anyway, using such a chip for a fanless or nearly fanless PC would also
require other components without a fan.

My main worry would be the motherboard which could also have a tiny little
shitty noisy fan which would ruin the design.

Other points of worry are harddisks, though these don't seem to generate
that much heat.

And ram chips... not sure what there tdp would be.

The 80486 PC did come with a fan in the power supply... not sure why that
fan was there... probably too cool the power supply itself but possibly
also for some airflow through case otherwise temperature may rise... which
seems somewhat logical.

So perhaps truely fanless system not possible, except maybe with
conducting the heat away via heatsinks outside of case.

I am very much interested in a fanless PC desktop design, but it has to be
somewhat powerfull at running applications/games.

So I have some questions about this core m chip:

1. How does it compare to an AMD X2 3800+ dual core chip from 2006 ? ;)
(manufactured in 2001?!)

Is core M slower, equal or faster than this AMD chip ?

2. Is core M capable of running company of heroes 2 at some decent
graphics settings and frame rate ? that would be nice ! ;) (at least
company of heroes 1 can be considered best game of all time, not yet sure
if coh2 is any good ;) but I sure wanna try it)

3. core M should also be capable of running warcraft frozen throne,
another great game with many many many mods, which make it a lot of fun.

4. Video playback should be smooth.

5. Internet browsing should be smooth as well.

I am hoping yes is the answer to all these 5 questions, if 2 is no, that's
kinda ok.

I want to know:

1. What motherboards are available for core m which can also be used for
desktop designs ? These motherboard must not have any fan on them.

2. Additional components are also nice to know... ram chips and such.

3. Also power supply capable of dissipating this heat away/out of case
without requiring a fan would be very cool... I think heatsinks didn't
exist during the time of the 80486 so this could be a chance to create a
really cool, noiseless PC, except maybe for the harddisk slightly rattling
but that's ok I think ;).

My main wish is too just have a PC which does not require any cleaning...
as to not break things because of cleaning... also safes time.

Also I want this PC to be capable of running software to it's maximum
potential/maximum cpu/gpu strain without overheating the system or causing
other thermal issues.

Think of highly intensive cpu processing, perhaps bitcoin, or evolutionary
software, or folding, rendering, gaming, any kind of high
cpu/gpu/intensive computing.

This desktop PC design should also be able to function at ambient
temperatures of 35 degrees celcius perhaps even 40 degrees celcius now
with rising global temperatures ;) So this PC should be capable of running
through a summer's heat at a breeze/without breaking a sweat ;).

What disappoints me about the chip is:

Only 2 cores, though it can run 4 threads.

Very small cpu cores, compared to the gpu core.... not sure if having
cpu+gpu on one chip offers some kind of performance adventage.
At the same time it's kinda nice though, only 4.5 watts for cpu+gpu !

However a different chip could also be considered in combination with a
seperated gpu chip.

Assuming both chips can run at 4.5 watts max, and still be cooled by a
passive cooling system.

I would then probably prefer a 4, 8-core or 16 core cpu with large L1
caches. (L1 cache size is usuable kept secret apperently, kinda annoying)
very important cache.

GPU should then also run at 4.5 watts. I'm afraid such a gpu simply does
not exist... so this is kinda surprising from intel. Seems like intel
turning into a graphics company more than a cpu company ;)

Though AMD did same with ATI purchase... weird isn't it :)

I have yet to come across a competing product from AMD which can compete
with core M... perhaps AMD does not want to compete for this segment ? Or
perhaps it does and I am unaware of it at this moment... so please do
share product suggestions.

2016 is still far away... as some of you may know I was hoping for an arm
based system in 2016... but to wait another 2 years is kinda painfull...
even 1 year is kinda painfull.

Also intel has some very nice instruction set extensions which seem
promising. I am not sure how many clock cycles those new instructions
take... like aes, or bmi, or crc32, some data on that would also be nice.
(I think broadwell also has the mulx instruction for multi-byte arithmetic
enhancements, well done intel ! pretty amazing ! ;))

(Skylake with the sha/bitcoin instruction would also be very fun to have,
but probably too far away for now ;))

Another reason for my interest in a new PC is my current PC is sucking up
a lllllllooottttt of dust and making a lllloottt of noise... and I am
kinda sick of it... and web browsing has become somewhat slow/sluggish....
also youtube sluggish and so forth. Some more speed from a new system
would be nice... it could speed up my day a bit... and save some time as
well...

I am scared to run intense software on my current system (google skybuck's
dream pc from 2006 to get an idea what it is).

I am scared it will suck something up and/or cause an overheat, or damage
to ram chips because of stuff sucked in.

Only thing that worries me with a fanless design is harddisk damage cause
of overheat... anybody have any experience with running hitachi deskstar
or ultrastar harddisk in fanless systems ? Does it work ? Or does it crash
the harddisk ? (Harddisk have some ram chips nowadays as well, probably
causing some heat). I think it needs some airflow to keep cool, not sure
though.

So basically I kinda want the same technology that's inside laptop's or
tablet but with more room to breath, but coupled to my BIG-ASS monitor and
BIG-ASS keyboard and a bit more ooppmmh if possible.

(I'd like the system to have overheat protection just in case, so system
must completely shutdown in the case of overheat whatever it's doing. My
current system/motherboard (winfast) has that and it's kinda nice ;))

Bye,
Skybuck.

You may have made your selection already but if you are looking for an
already boxed up PC solution and do not need the expansion card element for
it (like special plug in interfaces apart from USB or Ethernet) then you may
find the Intel NUC or Gigabyte Brix solutions useful. Just been playing
around with each in creating myself a decent CAD-Station. Small, Fanless and
all you add is the DDR3 Memory and SSD to give you the full solution.

--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://[email protected]>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
 
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S

Spehro Pefhany

From Wiki...

"Swag, promotional items given away at trade fairs and events"

Probably originated from:

"Swag, slang originating in the early 1800s for stolen goods or
booty."

What if it's a hanging lamp you got for free?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
B

bruce56

Weren't they at one point Cyrix from pre-X586 (Pentium pin sockets),

aka 486 processors -- a merger/acquisition of the two?

VIA took over Cyrix and IDT, who both made x86 CPUs.
A few years later, Intel did not renew their license for socket 370.
Seemed rather petty to me, as VIA CPUs were no threat to Intel at all.
 
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F

Flasherly

VIA took over Cyrix and IDT, who both made x86 CPUs.
A few years later, Intel did not renew their license for socket 370.
Seemed rather petty to me, as VIA CPUs were no threat to Intel at all.

I stayed away from Intel for the longest time. Never forgave them for
sitting on an 386 market and keeping prices inflated unflinchingly
high until an alternative market, comparable to the 386, caught up.
All through 486s and 586s - AMD, Cyrix, TI - anything else, other for
an Intel, that's what I bought, always new, following through the
upgrade paths.

I only switched to an Intel Celeron D as a matter of practicality on a
change and switch, on Intel's part, for apparent pricing structures.
Oddly, I was reading just last week, that same Celeron D (Socket 478)
is exactly structured on the last processor I was running on this, my
present computer and Socket 775 MB -- 2 weeks ago, I since swapped
processors for a Conroe. Apart from a reduced cache on that former
775, they were identical. (A $10.95 Pentium D 805, two years ago, to a
E6850 for $11.95 two weeks ago.)

What goes around comes around, I guess. The E6850 sits alongside a
bunch of used Ebay $30+ quadcores, even some Xeon conversions,
(exclusively out of China, though), I can always go back to and update
once and only once more, if I want. It's kinda unique - a more robust
platform than anything I'm seeing (blows away the Pentium D) or
suspect I can get into by cost considerations in an AMD, or, over my
other computer, which is equipped with a dualcore AMD X2 4200.
 
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