Why are PC sales declining ? (Skybuck thoughts on it too)

S

Skybuck Flying

Hello,

I was just on the Sega/Company of Heroes Beta feedback forum and I wondered
and thought this is a good question for usenet people ! ;) :):

Question is: why are PC sales declining ?:

1. Lack of demanding games ? (probably not)
2. Lack of good games ? (maybe)
3. Windows 8 sucks ? (bad reason, can use windows 7 as alternative)
4. Sick of overheat and associated problems ? (maybe... I am surely sick of
it ;))
5. Mobile/phones/tablets (I dont believe that... PC/laptop still better for
many tasks... though some decline is to be expected)

Me thinks: Perhaps 2 and 4 is cause of decline.

What are your thoughts on the decline ?

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
M

Martin Brown

5)

Most people don't need a computer, because they don't compute. A tablet does
email, twitter, facebook, browsing, and games. It's quiet, portable, reliable,
and doesn't have a tangle of cables, monitors, power strips, all that junk under
your desk. The decline is probably long-term. HP, Microsoft, Dell, maybe Oracle
are dinosaurs.

I am with you on this. Tablets are rapidly taking over at home.
Given you can get an Android tablet for under $100 they are going to
make a very large dent in the sales of new PCs and low end laptops.

Apart from video editing and gaming there is precious little that a home
user these days needs the full power of a desktop PC for.

Windows8 naffness has perhaps accelerated the decline but the main
problem is that PCs are now good enough to do anything that a home user
is ever likely to want to do and quickly too. There are no more killer
applications that require a massive new hardware upgrade any more.

Time was when just to run the newest OS you needed yet another memory
upgrade - those days are long gone despite the tendency to bloatware.
 
J

Joerg

Bulkhead said:

Yup. I believe abandoning XP was a major mistake.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=SEeKwchI-MO
https://www.computerworld.com/s/art..._downgrades_from_Windows_8_to_Windows_7_Vista

Quote "Not surprisingly, users may not downgrade to the
still-used-but-slated-for-retirement Windows XP".

Big mistake.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Yup. I believe abandoning XP was a major mistake.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=SEeKwchI-MO
https://www.computerworld.com/s/art..._downgrades_from_Windows_8_to_Windows_7_Vista

Quote "Not surprisingly, users may not downgrade to the
still-used-but-slated-for-retirement Windows XP".

Big mistake.

Perhaps, but allowing downgrading to Win7-64 means there's a chance I
might buy a Win8 computer in the next year or two. Otherwise, there is
approximately zero chance.
 
J

Joerg

Spehro said:
Perhaps, but allowing downgrading to Win7-64 means there's a chance I
might buy a Win8 computer in the next year or two. Otherwise, there is
approximately zero chance.

I was tempted a few times to buy a new one because I can get roughly 2x
the simulation speed with more cores. But right now I cannot risk a
major interruption because some OS-incompatibility precludes me from
running SW or connected hardware that I really need. With some SW I was
explicitly told that there's issues with Win-7.
 
T

Tom Del Rosso

Skybuck said:
Hello,

I was just on the Sega/Company of Heroes Beta feedback forum and I
wondered and thought this is a good question for usenet people ! ;)
:):
Question is: why are PC sales declining ?:

1. Lack of demanding games ? (probably not)
2. Lack of good games ? (maybe)
3. Windows 8 sucks ? (bad reason, can use windows 7 as alternative)
4. Sick of overheat and associated problems ? (maybe... I am surely
sick of it ;))
5. Mobile/phones/tablets (I dont believe that... PC/laptop still
better for many tasks... though some decline is to be expected)

Me thinks: Perhaps 2 and 4 is cause of decline.

What are your thoughts on the decline ?


This is an intelligent post. Who are you? Where is Skybuck? What have you
done with him?
 
S

Skybuck Flying

Hmm speaking of laptops... my mother claims her toshiba ? laptop's harddisk
died one month after it was out of warrenty...

I probably posted which laptop she bought somewhere on usenet in the past...

Just thought I'd let you guys know that... so even laptops can fail... yes
even expensive ones... and yes toshiba too :)

Not really surprising for me... I told her this would happen after she
bought it ;) my half-sister takes care of it and has seized control since
the start...

Perhaps she believes I could not hack it and take over... I could but I
won't it's too risky in many ways.

So I let her have her fun or in this case stress and annoyances with it !
LOL.

HI SISTER ! in case you ever read this ?! ;) =D Having fun yet ? ;) =D

Bye,
Bye,
Skybuck.

P.S.: I told my mother maybe she needs a tablet ;) =D

P.S.2: Maybe all this doom thinking is become self-forfilling-prophecy

PS.3: Neh probably not ;) :) walls and all that ;) :)
 
S

Skybuck Flying

Maybe new strategy of Microsoft:

Screw hardware, we want to earn money with software !

Make software run on more systems and profit ! ;)

Has it worked out yet ? Maybe not... maybe yes... and maybe it will in
future...

Blizzard games are quite impressive quality wise... and yet they run on
modest systems.

Maybe Blizzard earns lots of money from their software, instead of requiring
gamers to buy new hardware ;)

Maybe Microsoft got inspired by Blizzard and decided to go the Blizzard way
;) :)

Blaming Microsoft for making their operating system more efficient is pretty
insane isn't it ? LOL.

Bye,
Skybyck =D
 
G

George Herold

Hello,

I was just on the Sega/Company of Heroes Beta feedback forum and I wondered
and thought this is a good question for usenet people ! ;) :):

Question is: why are PC sales declining ?:

1. Lack of demanding games ? (probably not)
2. Lack of good games ? (maybe)
3. Windows 8 sucks ? (bad reason, can use windows 7 as alternative)
4. Sick of overheat and associated problems ? (maybe... I am surely sick of
it ;))
5. Mobile/phones/tablets (I dont believe that... PC/laptop still better for
many tasks... though some decline is to be expected)

Me thinks: Perhaps 2 and 4 is cause of decline.

What are your thoughts on the decline ?

Bye,
  Skybuck.

I think it's the mobile/ tablets that are doing it.

I wonder if I could divert this thread a bit?
I've got an old desktop at home that I'd like to upgrade.
My 'boy' (a 12 year old) really would like a better gaming machine.
We've got a newer laptop that we use for gaming (I think minecraft is
our favorite game.)
but it tends to over heat and slow down during the games.

So I've been looking at a new desktop from Dell.
Several questions then,
1.) should I buy from Dell? (I've used them in the past.)
2.) Which operating system. I was thinking of win8... but now you've
all made me nervous, but I wouold like some newer version of windows
(running XP at home and work.) moslty becasue the kids will be using
the newer version in school. So maybe Win7?
3.) How much memory? I figured 8 or 12G.
4.) Do I need the fancy graphics cards for gaming? (My thought was I
could let my son pitch in for a better card if that's needed.)

Thanks for any advice or wisdom,

George H.
 
M

Melzzzzz

Hello,

I was just on the Sega/Company of Heroes Beta feedback forum and I
wondered and thought this is a good question for usenet
people ! ;) :):

Question is: why are PC sales declining ?:

1. Lack of demanding games ? (probably not)
2. Lack of good games ? (maybe)
3. Windows 8 sucks ? (bad reason, can use windows 7 as alternative)
4. Sick of overheat and associated problems ? (maybe... I am surely
sick of it ;))
5. Mobile/phones/tablets (I dont believe that... PC/laptop still
better for many tasks... though some decline is to be expected)

Me thinks: Perhaps 2 and 4 is cause of decline.

What are your thoughts on the decline ?

1. and 2.
Games where main drive force behind PC sales, and now
they are mainly produced for Consoles which have
long life expectancy period. Hack you don;t need
more than 2gb of RAM... (have you saw game that needs
more than 2gigs?)
You can do everything else with hardware from 2003.
 
H

halong

5)

Most people don't need a computer, because they don't compute. A tablet does
email, twitter, facebook, browsing, and games. It's quiet, portable, reliable,
and doesn't have a tangle of cables, monitors, power strips, all that junk under
your desk. The decline is probably long-term. HP, Microsoft, Dell, maybe Oracle
are dinosaurs.

--

John Larkin                  Highland Technology Incwww..highlandtechnology.com  jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

I think 5 also...

The main reason is that we have only 24 hours a day...no time for PC
 
M

Melzzzzz

I think it's the mobile/ tablets that are doing it.

I wonder if I could divert this thread a bit?
I've got an old desktop at home that I'd like to upgrade.
My 'boy' (a 12 year old) really would like a better gaming machine.
We've got a newer laptop that we use for gaming (I think minecraft is
our favorite game.)
but it tends to over heat and slow down during the games.

So I've been looking at a new desktop from Dell.
Several questions then,
1.) should I buy from Dell? (I've used them in the past.)

Don't know I assemble PC myself.
2.) Which operating system. I was thinking of win8... but now you've
all made me nervous, but I wouold like some newer version of windows
(running XP at home and work.) moslty becasue the kids will be using
the newer version in school. So maybe Win7?

Yes, Win 7.
3.) How much memory? I figured 8 or 12G.

4GB would be enough but 8GB would be comfortable.
Memory is cheap.
4.) Do I need the fancy graphics cards for gaming? (My thought was I
could let my son pitch in for a better card if that's needed.)

Depends on games also... but if you need to play in higher resolutions
everything on high, this would be most important.
IMO medium strength card is enough.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

I was tempted a few times to buy a new one because I can get roughly 2x
the simulation speed with more cores. But right now I cannot risk a
major interruption because some OS-incompatibility precludes me from
running SW or connected hardware that I really need. With some SW I was
explicitly told that there's issues with Win-7.

Yup.

I try to maintain exactly two major versions of Microsoft operating
systems on my machines at any given moment. I'm not ready yet to give
up entirely on XP, so Win7-64 and XP-32 are the two. There's a real
advantage to having a 64-bit O/S with lots of usable RAM for some
stuff- and XP will no longer be supported for many pieces of
engineering sofware such as Solidworks (beyond 2013) and Solid Edge
(current version ST5 will not install on XP).

Win8 strikes me as perhaps ending up more of a stepping stone, like ME
or Vista, that might be best stepped over, but (other people's) time
will tell. I sure don't want (nor do I want anyone else) to touch my
monitors with slimy greasy fingers, so the tablet features are not
very interesting for a desktop system.
 
M

Martin Brown

They have to retire it at some point and Win7 is perfectly stable
(unlike Vista) and Vista was never quite as bad as it was painted. MS
Office 2007 was far more of a dog's dinner at initial release but didn't
take anything like the same amount of heat.

Corporates that I know are only just now upgrading to Win7 as MS is
trying to push Win8. They are stuck on some prehistoric browser because
some other MS intranet product is wildly incompatible with newer ones!
Perhaps, but allowing downgrading to Win7-64 means there's a chance I
might buy a Win8 computer in the next year or two. Otherwise, there is
approximately zero chance.

Buy one while you can still get the downgrade to Win7-64 Pro.

Do the sums to decide which CPU has the best bang per buck when you
decide to buy. My current PC is a nominally games machine with an
i7-3770K and *no* graphics card installed - just using the CPUs fast 2D
graphics. It is astonishingly frugal on power unless working very hard.
Plenty fast enough for any simulations and the 4 core i5-3570 would be
almost as good for programs that don't use hyperthreading efficiently.

The law of diminishing returns sets in for >4 processing units anyway.

If you don't want realtime 3d rendering for action games animation the
graphics card isn't strictly necessary. The manufacturer had some
difficulty believing the specification that I requested.
 
M

mike

Yup. I believe abandoning XP was a major mistake.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=SEeKwchI-MO
https://www.computerworld.com/s/art..._downgrades_from_Windows_8_to_Windows_7_Vista

Quote "Not surprisingly, users may not downgrade to the
still-used-but-slated-for-retirement Windows XP".

Big mistake.
The underlying driving force for the computer business is Moore's law.
It DEPENDS on more and more and more.
Once you have 10X the computing power you need, there's no incentive to
buy new stuff.

Apple realized this early and created a (paid) content delivery vehicle.
Android made it available at lower cost.
You don't buy stuff any more...you pay a continuing ongoing, ever-increasing
subscription for the privilege of connecting to the network and for what
you use when you get there.

M$ is trying to rent you "office". Reception hasn't been warm, but it's
coming.

Won't be long before you won't need a user name and password to log in.
Inserting your credit card will take care of all that...accompanied
by the gentle "ding-ding" of the cash register app totaling up the
charges in the background. The kids who grew up with a cellphone
in each hand won't even blink...they'll just pay the bill and keep
on tweeting.

Microsoft must FORCE you, kicking and screaming, into that paradigm.
I'd bet that "pressing the XP kill switch" comes up at every strategy
meeting. As soon as the perceived backlash is acceptable, it will
happen. "The XP activation site is no longer available. Your XP
license has expired...your computer will be crippled in 30 days.
Click here to purchase and update to windows 12...
sorry for any inconvenience."
....
....
Your hardware is incompatible with Windows 12. Click here to purchase
"Surface"...we're still sorry...

Windows 8 is inevitable. Their problem was not doing it earlier.
That's gonna cost 'em.
 
J

Joerg

mike said:
The underlying driving force for the computer business is Moore's law.
It DEPENDS on more and more and more.
Once you have 10X the computing power you need, there's no incentive to
buy new stuff.

Apple realized this early and created a (paid) content delivery vehicle.
Android made it available at lower cost.
You don't buy stuff any more...you pay a continuing ongoing,
ever-increasing
subscription for the privilege of connecting to the network and for what
you use when you get there.

Not with me :)

M$ is trying to rent you "office". Reception hasn't been warm, but it's
coming.

Won't be long before you won't need a user name and password to log in.
Inserting your credit card will take care of all that...accompanied
by the gentle "ding-ding" of the cash register app totaling up the
charges in the background. The kids who grew up with a cellphone
in each hand won't even blink...they'll just pay the bill and keep
on tweeting.

Nope, their mom and dad pay the bills. Then when the kids come of age
it'll hit them. "Oh s..t! I can't make ends meet". Pretty soon they move
back in with their parents. I see it left and right, happens more and
more. 40- and 50-year olds living with mom and dad. Why? Because they
"need" a $60/mo cell plan, a $150/mo gym membership, a $80/mo cable TV
package, Netflix, TiVo, Apps, Tunes, car payments, and on and on. It
eats them alive and they have no clue what is eating them alive.

Microsoft must FORCE you, kicking and screaming, into that paradigm.
I'd bet that "pressing the XP kill switch" comes up at every strategy
meeting. As soon as the perceived backlash is acceptable, it will
happen. "The XP activation site is no longer available. Your XP
license has expired...your computer will be crippled in 30 days.
Click here to purchase and update to windows 12...
sorry for any inconvenience."


Then it could be like with servers. They lost a big chunk of that market.
...
...
Your hardware is incompatible with Windows 12. Click here to purchase
"Surface"...we're still sorry...

Windows 8 is inevitable. Their problem was not doing it earlier.
That's gonna cost 'em.


It started in the 90's. We were hardcore in the market for an RTOS.
Windows was touting CE but at the Embedded Conference they were unable
to answer the bulk of our technical questions, instead constantly
pointing to "partners", some of whom weren't there. So we picked another
OS. And so did lots of others. They could have had it all back then but
really blew it IMHO. CE fizzled, which was not at all a surprise to me.

Then they had the golden opportunity to build a phone, together with
Nokia, that could have been largely compatible with a PC. We all know
the results. If I needed a smart phone and there was one that could run
most of my regularly used PC programs I'd buy. That feature alone could
actually convince me to "need" one because it finally would enbale
people to leave their netbooks at home on short trips.

As a company one should cling to products that simply work and then
build upon them instead of tossing everything for a brand new design.
For Microsoft that is (or was) XP. Just like the Rabbit or Golf for
Volkswagen. Except that Volkswagen was smarter and kept it.

If a tech company's stock price is more or less flat for well over 10
years then people in there should put on their thinking caps.
 
A

amdx

The underlying driving force for the computer business is Moore's law.
It DEPENDS on more and more and more.
Once you have 10X the computing power you need, there's no incentive to
buy new stuff.

Apple realized this early and created a (paid) content delivery vehicle.
Android made it available at lower cost.
You don't buy stuff any more...you pay a continuing ongoing,
ever-increasing
subscription for the privilege of connecting to the network and for what
you use when you get there.

M$ is trying to rent you "office". Reception hasn't been warm, but it's
coming.

Won't be long before you won't need a user name and password to log in.
Inserting your credit card will take care of all that...accompanied
by the gentle "ding-ding" of the cash register app totaling up the
charges in the background. The kids who grew up with a cellphone
in each hand won't even blink...they'll just pay the bill and keep
on tweeting.

Microsoft must FORCE you, kicking and screaming, into that paradigm.
I'd bet that "pressing the XP kill switch" comes up at every strategy
meeting. As soon as the perceived backlash is acceptable, it will
happen. "The XP activation site is no longer available. Your XP
license has expired...your computer will be crippled in 30 days.
Click here to purchase and update to windows 12...
sorry for any inconvenience."
...
...
Your hardware is incompatible with Windows 12. Click here to purchase
"Surface"...we're still sorry...


Chilling picture you have painted with this "paid content delivery
vehicle".
I complain about the $45 dollar internet "month after month after
month" bill.
Then there's the cable TV bill, and the phone, the water/sewer/garbage,
insurance, etc.
I have acquaintance to a lot of bums, The only stress they have is
getting there next meal or beer, and where are they going to sleep.
Kinda like early man, except their not slaying animals for food.

Oh, I think the slide in PC sales has to do with mobile.
I have a friend that got a smart phone from his daughter and now
he rarely uses his home computer. My daughter has a smart phone
and use her laptop only if she has a long email to type. Her hubby
still uses the laptop, but for Youtube videos mostly. And as you know
Youtube videos can be accessed on many TV's now and more in the future.

Mikek
 
G

George Herold

Don't know I assemble PC myself.


Yes, Win 7.


4GB would be enough but 8GB would be comfortable.
Memory is cheap.
That's my thought... gain is cheap too!

George H.
 

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