Who must eat crow?

[Candace]

Is it me or the people who so valiantly tried to help me?
The problems I was suddenly having with gigantic lag times
and posts which NEVER showed up persisted even when I went
across town to the Library.

You all STILL wanted to blame my reader.

We can all learn from this experience. I was "right" but
was so trusting that I went and got MSN service (not a bad
thing) and spent all night with ignorant "tech" support
people trying to set up the damn OE. Which I failed to do.

Finally, in frustration, I visited this fabulous forum. It
is once again fabulous, as the lag time is under an hour
and falling. What lessons can be learned here? I know we
all meant well, and I'm not ungrateful, but, what would
your answer have been if I posted as "Jim?"...

 

[Nicholas]

The folks in these newsgroups have no control over AOL or
Microsoft newsgroup server performance issues.

It doesn't matter whether your name is Constance or Jim,
the folks in these newsgroups try their best to help everyone.
Your issue is not very easy to solve, and is likely just a
temporary issue with your AOL service.

--
Nicholas

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


| Is it me or the people who so valiantly tried to help me?
| The problems I was suddenly having with gigantic lag times
| and posts which NEVER showed up persisted even when I went
| across town to the Library.
|
| You all STILL wanted to blame my reader.
|
| We can all learn from this experience. I was "right" but
| was so trusting that I went and got MSN service (not a bad
| thing) and spent all night with ignorant "tech" support
| people trying to set up the damn OE. Which I failed to do.
|
| Finally, in frustration, I visited this fabulous forum. It
| is once again fabulous, as the lag time is under an hour
| and falling. What lessons can be learned here? I know we
| all meant well, and I'm not ungrateful, but, what would
| your answer have been if I posted as "Jim?"...

 

[Mike Brearley]

Is it me or the people who so valiantly tried to help me?
The problems I was suddenly having with gigantic lag times
and posts which NEVER showed up persisted even when I went
across town to the Library.

You all STILL wanted to blame my reader.

We can all learn from this experience. I was "right" but
was so trusting that I went and got MSN service (not a bad
thing) and spent all night with ignorant "tech" support
people trying to set up the damn OE. Which I failed to do.

Finally, in frustration, I visited this fabulous forum. It
is once again fabulous, as the lag time is under an hour
and falling. What lessons can be learned here? I know we
all meant well, and I'm not ungrateful, but, what would
your answer have been if I posted as "Jim?"...

I'm not quite sure what you're complaining about. People answered your post
and from what some said it appears that the web forums were lagging behind
quite a bit. The people that suggested that you configure a newsreader and
configure it for the Microsoft news servers were trying to help 100% and
just because they suggested OE (gee, big surprise seeing this is a
*Microsoft* newsgroup) doesn't mean they were saying OE would be your only
option. There was also a post to related info on AOL as you appeared to be
using AOL.

It doesn't matter if you posted as Jack, Jill, Frank, Omar, Ellen, Mary,
Abdul, etc... so GET OVER IT!! If there's one thing I hate more than
anything else, it's people crying racism, or in this case, sexism when it's
un-called for. We treat all alike in here and those that offer assistance
offer it to everyone that they think they can help. Granted, people just
saying use OE because it's better, aren't really offering much help, but a
few posts were *VERY*, and I say again, *VERY* helpful!

People offer the best advice they have. Plain and simple and end of story.
If you don't like the assistance that the people in this forum give you then
don't post here anymore!

--
Posted 'as is'. If there are any spelling and/or grammar mistakes, they
were a direct result of my fingers and brain not being synchronized or my
lack of caffeine.

Mike Brearley

 

[purplehaz]

I'm sorry to say, but it is the reader. It's the web page interface
newsreader that your using. Ther web page reader is ALWAYS 1-10 hours
behind. That's just how it works. If you think 1 hour lag is normal that is
not correct. The lag IS the web page reader. If you use a newsgroup stand
alone program (not a web page news reader), the lag should be 1-5 minutes.
The reason you saw lag at home and at the library has nothing to do with
servers it is because you used the web interface at both locations. Lag
should be no more than 5 minutes if you use a real news reader. So what did
we learn here....... the web interface IS the source of the lag. One hour is
way to long, a stand alone newsreader will not lag like the web interface.
Right now in OE I have posts from three minutes ago. On the web page
inteface, 3 hours ago is the most recent.

 

[Incognitus]

It was a difficult problem to diagnose. And definitely not
an AOL problem, since the library is NOT on AOL. Wish I
knew how such a situation could arise. One region, one set
of forums. The rest of the world completely normal...

Very simple, you and the library are using the web interface, most of the
completely normal world, as you put it, are using a newsreader, and didn't
have your problem.

You're using: X-Newsreader: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.030

I'm using: X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165

Which explains why you had a problem and I didn't, OTOH, there will be times
I'll experience difficulties and you won't.

 

[Steve C. Ray]

Get out your knife and fork, Candace. All anyone here did was try to help
you, me included. That's why I sent you an email answer, which I don't ever
normally do. And you express your appreciation by calling us sexists. It
never crossed my mind that you were female. I thought you were another XP
user who needed help. You are the one who is a sexist. There is another
feature of Outlook express which you probably don't know about since you
don't use it as your news reader. Under Message I can click on Block
Sender....

 

[Lorne Smith]

Is it me or the people who so valiantly tried to help me?
The problems I was suddenly having with gigantic lag times
and posts which NEVER showed up persisted even when I went
across town to the Library.

You all STILL wanted to blame my reader.

We can all learn from this experience. I was "right" but
was so trusting that I went and got MSN service (not a bad
thing) and spent all night with ignorant "tech" support
people trying to set up the damn OE. Which I failed to do.

Finally, in frustration, I visited this fabulous forum. It
is once again fabulous, as the lag time is under an hour
and falling. What lessons can be learned here? I know we
all meant well, and I'm not ungrateful, but, what would
your answer have been if I posted as "Jim?"...

The only one here who should be "eating crow" is yourself. You're the one
who can't read some very helpful replies, you're the one who can't figure
out how to configure a newsreader (something my 6 year old niece had no
trouble doing), you're the one using the CDA interface after there being
LOTS of posts about it lagging behind a bit, and YOU'RE the one being
sexist!

Lorne

 

[Candace]

I don't regard 1 hour lags as normal, but an improvement
over the 8+ hours I temporarily experienced. At the momrnt
it is 16 minutes, which is fine with me.

Also how to explain all the posts from late Tues and early
Wed that NEVER showed up on the forum? Hours'worth.

Anyway, I went to the library, and the problem was the
same, so I blame the Internet, and I fail to see why more
of you do not support that view.

BUT, I am indeed grateful for the impulse behind all the
advice. Thank you for being so helpful. Normally, you
folks hit the nail pretty squarely.

 

[purplehaz]

The server in here does occationally go down. I wasn't in the forum on the
days/times you mentioned, so I don't know. But it is a possibility that the
server went down during that time.

 

[Mike Brearley]

I was in this newsgroup all day (9am-4pm) yesterday and the day before and
suffered no lags. If you set up a newsreader to connect to the
msnews.microsoft.com server, you wouldn't have suffered the problem either.
The web browser news forums suck !$^&$!$. Granted, the msnews servers do go
down on occasion (very seldom), but they are much more reliable than any of
those servers you are connecting to.

I can post on here and see my post within 20 seconds. Try that with a web
browsers news reader and then tell those 'most knowledgable MSN tech support
people' that you before called ignorant (which is it here? ignorant or
knowledgable, can't be both) which one was able to see results the quickest.

You really crack me up.

Granted, there are probably better newsreaders out that rather than OE, but
OE is free and it's worked for me for years as far as a newsreader and for
accessing my hotmail account.

It's plain and simple, if you are intent on using a web browser forums for
accessing these groups, you *will* suffer lags and the occasional time when
your posts don't show up. It's a fact of life so either live with it or
take our advice!

--
Posted 'as is'. If there are any spelling and/or grammar mistakes, they
were a direct result of my fingers and brain not being synchronized or my
lack of caffeine.

Mike Brearley

 

[Candace]

No, they were great.

No aspect of their explanation had a hole in it, unlike
the "reader" explanations. (sorry)
If you knew what they call a tech support professional at
MSN these days, you would choke.
They are obviously grossly underpaid. In the chat help,
they are in a foreign country and some of them are
marginal at English usage, on top of not knowing anything.

I contacted SIX people both by phone and chat to try to
implement OE, as I needed server info, etc which the
Wizard said i sould "ask my ISP" for. Imagine the irony
that msn knows NOTHING about OE, outside of outdated cheat
sheets. Only the one person had a clue. He was great.

 

[Candace]

What made my problem more difficult to deal with was the
fact that I had good access for 4 days to the forums, then
crap. There WAS a system problem. Normally, I would not
mind a temporary down time, but I was just getting started
with this, and nobody acknowledged the fact that it would
be temporary. I was led to believe that I would never have
normal access again. Why? I don't know. As a medical
professional, I know this kind of diagnostic routine would
kill a lot of patients. Still, the rule on these forums is
Caveat Emptor (even though the advice is free!)

 

[Danny Mingledorff]

One thing to remember with MSN, at least as it was explained to me by a user
of theirs, is they are doing away with POP access to their email servers,
hence their attitude towards using OE.

 

[purplehaz]

see below........

No, they were great.

No aspect of their explanation had a hole in it, unlike
the "reader" explanations. (sorry)

Maybe it seemed that way, but they were wrong. It's the CDO reader.

If you knew what they call a tech support professional at
MSN these days, you would choke.
They are obviously grossly underpaid. In the chat help,
they are in a foreign country and some of them are
marginal at English usage, on top of not knowing anything.

Tech support by almost all big companies is farmed out. The person you
talked to doesn't even work for Microsoft or MSN. I used to work phone tech
support and this is how it is. I did support for comcast cable internet,
lived 400 miles away, and worked for an entirely different company. The
farmed out support is what they call Tier 1 support. These people are
usually not computer experts, read off a script cause they don't know the
answers, and make between $16,000-21,000(us). The lowset support there is.
Sometimes a good tech works tier 1 to get started, but is usaully quickly
promoted to tier 2 or tier 3 cause they are to good for tier 1 support. So
even the good ones don't last long.

I contacted SIX people both by phone and chat to try to
implement OE, as I needed server info, etc which the
Wizard said i sould "ask my ISP" for. Imagine the irony
that msn knows NOTHING about OE, outside of outdated cheat
sheets. Only the one person had a clue. He was great.

MSN tier 1 techs don't have the info for setting up OE for hotmail because
it is not a supported feature. MSN wants you to use email(hotmail) thru the
msn browser, not in OE. Techs usually are not allowed to help you with
unsupported features, even if they know the answer. If they do they usually
get in trouble, for supporting and unsupported feature. This is just how
tech support is. A tech can only help you with what they are allowed to help
you with. Techs that go above and beyond either get promoted for being too
good or fired for not following procedure. You can't expect an msn tech to
help you with something they are not allowed to help you with. And lastly,
remember this........ sad but true........ phone tech support is not about
helping the customer, it is all about how many calls can you answer during
your work day. It's all about call volume, not helping. More calls answered
means more money for the support company. Where I worked, all calls had to
be finished in less than 10 minutes whether the prob was solved or not. When
you go over 10 minutes the supervisor comes over and tries to find out why
your on the phone so long. Tech support is about money, not helping. Trust
me, I know, cause I was there.

 

[NoNoBadDog!]

Candace;

Just why do you find it necessary to feel "vindicated"? The delay has
been explained to you, and since you refuse to use OE or any other real
world app (such as Free Agent), then you will have to live with delays that
can range from several minutes to several hours. The web based interface is
your problem.

Bobby

 

[Mike Brearley]

Well, then control how you access newsgroups better instead of relying on
some third party web site to do it for you. If you are such a control
freak, then take CONTROL over your microsoft.public newsgroup experience and
enjoy it the way it was meant to be, fast and reliable. By not doing so,
you're allowing someone else to control your experience and thus are not
being a control freak.

--
Posted 'as is'. If there are any spelling and/or grammar mistakes, they
were a direct result of my fingers and brain not being synchronized or my
lack of caffeine.

Mike Brearley

 

[Mike Brearley]

Yes, there WAS a system problem, but it wasn't with the microsoft news
servers, it was with the forum that you visit and it can happen at any time.
Setting up a news reader to go directly to the source, msnews.microsoft.com,
will bypass all other possible problems and connect you directly to the
heart of the wonderful community. That's what we are TRYING to tell you,
but you still refuse to listen. Take control, don't let some lame web site
control things for you!

--
Posted 'as is'. If there are any spelling and/or grammar mistakes, they
were a direct result of my fingers and brain not being synchronized or my
lack of caffeine.

Mike Brearley

 

[Alex Nichol]

But, if you knew what the most knowledgeable MSN tech
support people think of OE, you would understand why I do
not intend to use it. They made an excellent case for not
using a reader, and in fact explained the actual nature of
the slowdown. They actually comprehended that the sudden
onset of the problem could NOT be reader-related, and I
must say that was my impression all along, as well.

There is more than one thing getting compounded here.

One is that there has been at least one recent occasion where posts made
on the Web interface have not got through onto the main servers for a
matter of hours. But those made through proper news programs which
access those servers directly have not had trouble.

Second is that the web interface makes it difficult (in comparison with
a proper reader) to go back and see your own posts, and replies to them,
in a properly logical structure of threads and subthreads. And a lot of
confusion gets caused by web users posting a follow up as if it were a
totally new item which loses all context. (And sometimes under a name
that does not match up)

Third there is a misapprehension, particularly among the web users that
this is some interactive service, manned by Microsoft staff, where you
can expect an answer in minutes. It is not. It is a place where you
can post a query for people *all around the world* to respond to, as and
when they see it and have time. So it may well be more than 24 hours
before your query gets noted. This misapprehension results in a lot of
people posting over and over, with variations, and I for one am getting
*extremely* frustrated at answering a query and then finding it has been
asked again an hour later. I have become well aware that such people
will not come back to look at a post to which I may have devoted some
trouble, and am becoming increasingly inclined, if I notice the case, to
pass by and not respond at all.

These reasons, rather than the first one of technical delays in posting
were why you were asked to use OE (or other true news program). The web
interface is making it increasingly difficult for us to help without
spending an unreasonable amount of *our* time. And we are volunteers
helpers - *not* paid Microsoft staff.

 

[Candace]

Yikes! You're right...

I'll have to get right on it.

 

[Candace]

Thanks, those are excellent points.

However, if you knew the extraordinarily hard time I had
trying and failing to get set up with OE via MNS tech
support, you would realize that it is wishful thinking to
hope that John Q. Public will ever embrace your
recommended approach.

As for myself, I am leaning towards using OE. I will
consult THIS FORUM, and not "MSNincompoops" when I need
information for the Wizard. Unfortunately, when I was
attempting to implement OE the first time, this forum and
I could not communicate in anything approaching real time.