What is SP2 doing - apart from trashing everybody's PC??

[Hugh]

Do I detect a thread here, lotsa people seem to be
updating to XP SP2 and then start losing things like
soundcards, lan ports, printers, scanners, drives,
removable drives

Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up
completely???

Hugh

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Yes, you are indeed paranoid. A well-maintained PC will
install SP2 without any adverse installation issues.

Windows XP Service Pack 2 Checklist
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm

[Courtesy of MS-MVP Jupiter Jones]

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| Do I detect a thread here, lotsa people seem to be
| updating to XP SP2 and then start losing things like
| soundcards, lan ports, printers, scanners, drives,
| removable drives
|
| Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up
| completely???
|
| Hugh

 

[Larry Samuels]

Not necessarily--ever try upgrading a Prescott processor with too low of a
microcode update??
Luckily, Mat highlights the issue on your cited link.

Such broad statements are dangerous and can cause users to lose valuable
data. Laptop users especially should ALWAYS check with the manufacturer
before performing service pack upgrades.


--
Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -
Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm

 

[Richard Urban]

It's you!

--

Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

 

[Kevin]

Paranoid? Not necessarily. It's important to realize that most people
posting on newsgroups do so because they have a problem. You don't get the
others that installed just fine (like myself) posting saying that everything
is okay. The best advice is to do all you can to research the upgrade for
your particular system, backup your data and configuration (or your entire
system), then do the upgrade with the option to uninstall it if it doesn't
work out.

Remember, things can go wrong even with the best maintained system. Making
sure you can recover from problems is an important part of any major
upgrade.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Hugh;
These newsgroups are for computer issues and thus a majority of posts
deal with problems.
SP-2 is a major recent update and because of that gets a lot of
coverage here.

Microsoft has nor screwed up unless you say not testing SP-2 on all
possible combinations is a screw up.
Consider the total number of Windows XP computers in the world.
No two are identical.
No one, not even Microsoft could possibly test anything on all
possible combinations.
Even so SP-2 is possibly the most tested piece of software ever
released.

Check for possible hardware and software issues before starting:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
Follow the Service Pack Installation Checklist to install SP-2:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Do I detect a thread here, lotsa people seem to be
updating to XP SP2 and then start losing things like
soundcards, lan ports, printers, scanners, drives,
removable drives

Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up
completely???

I don't believe Microsoft "screwed it up completely" as you put it.

What I see is a minority of users having trouble because their system
already had trouble, possibly unseen, before installing SP2. Loads of
adware/spyware/malware.. Incompatable applications, possibly even key
loggers and other trojan-like apps. A little cleanup before SP2 is
installed will help.

An even smaller minority of users actually have hardware/software that has
not been upgraded to work with the improved security or other changes SP2
entailed. For example, "EndNote 8" does not work with SP2, but did work on
XP prior to that. They even admit on their web page that users of EndNote 6
and 7 will not have trouble, only their latest and greatest (8) has problems
and THEY are working on the patch to remedy the situation. Their product,
their problem. Other similar situations have come up with hardware drivers
and the likes... The sad part is that these companies all had access to the
SP2 Betas like everyone else - very few tested beforehand.

My bet is 10% - maybe 20% of Windows XP SP1 users will have trouble.. of
that 10-20%, 75% will probably fall into the former - meaning they should
have better checked their hardware/software patches, scanned for malware in
various ways, defragmented and check their hard drives for errors, updated
their BIOS where appropriate before installing a Windows patch that is
almost as large as the original install! A little planning, preperation and
knowledge would go a long way.. Don't have that type of time - everyone has
a geek friend, 16 year old son/daughter or something - and for the rest -
research, plan or get someone to help if it makes you nervous.

I have had my share of trouble with it in the workplace - none at home. A
few popups were blocked at work that shouldn't have been or a few security
settings were too high - a little GPO manipulation and everything is
better - better than before, not just better since I fixed the SP2
problems - overall. After all, the control of the Windows Firewall from a
GPO is fantastic - External and internal firewalls...

Anyway - although I am not saying anything is wrong with your statement, I
hope I have at least contributed to your thought process.. With a little
pre-planning, Windows XP SP2 will work for MOST people without a hitch. And
if they did that same pre-planning, for those that it wouldn't work for -
they already know.

 

[NobodyMan]

Do I detect a thread here, lotsa people seem to be
updating to XP SP2 and then start losing things like
soundcards, lan ports, printers, scanners, drives,
removable drives

Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up
completely???

Hugh

All you are seeing is a very vocal minority who report problems when
they apply the service pack. What you don't read are the vast
majority who applied the service pack and had no problems. They don't
post "It went great love it" messages. unlike the negative nellies who
have had problems. Those problems are usually due to unsupported
hardware more often than not...and that's not Microsoft's fault.

 

[Herb Fritatta]

Yes, you are indeed paranoid. A well-maintained PC will
install SP2 without any adverse installation issues.

Windows XP Service Pack 2 Checklist
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm

[Courtesy of MS-MVP Jupiter Jones]

Bull$hit. My well-maintained PC didn't. And I'm tired of people like you
having the gall to suggest otherwise. You have no basis in knowledge
other than your personal experience to suggest otherwise.

 

[Herb Fritatta]

Hugh;
These newsgroups are for computer issues and thus a majority of posts
deal with problems.
SP-2 is a major recent update and because of that gets a lot of
coverage here.

Microsoft has nor screwed up unless you say not testing SP-2 on all
possible combinations is a screw up.
Consider the total number of Windows XP computers in the world.
No two are identical.
No one, not even Microsoft could possibly test anything on all
possible combinations.
Even so SP-2 is possibly the most tested piece of software ever
released.

Check for possible hardware and software issues before starting:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
Follow the Service Pack Installation Checklist to install SP-2:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

Which the original XP release should have been.

 

[Herb Fritatta]

I don't believe Microsoft "screwed it up completely" as you put it.

What I see is a minority of users having trouble because their system
already had trouble, possibly unseen, before installing SP2. Loads of
adware/spyware/malware.. Incompatable applications, possibly even key
loggers and other trojan-like apps. A little cleanup before SP2 is
installed will help.

An even smaller minority of users actually have hardware/software that has
not been upgraded to work with the improved security or other changes SP2
entailed. For example, "EndNote 8" does not work with SP2, but did work on
XP prior to that. They even admit on their web page that users of EndNote 6
and 7 will not have trouble, only their latest and greatest (8) has problems
and THEY are working on the patch to remedy the situation. Their product,
their problem. Other similar situations have come up with hardware drivers
and the likes... The sad part is that these companies all had access to the
SP2 Betas like everyone else - very few tested beforehand.

My bet is 10% - maybe 20% of Windows XP SP1 users will have trouble.. of
that 10-20%, 75% will probably fall into the former - meaning they should
have better checked their hardware/software patches, scanned for malware in
various ways, defragmented and check their hard drives for errors, updated
their BIOS where appropriate before installing a Windows patch that is
almost as large as the original install! A little planning, preperation and
knowledge would go a long way.. Don't have that type of time - everyone has
a geek friend, 16 year old son/daughter or something - and for the rest -
research, plan or get someone to help if it makes you nervous.

I have had my share of trouble with it in the workplace - none at home. A
few popups were blocked at work that shouldn't have been or a few security
settings were too high - a little GPO manipulation and everything is
better - better than before, not just better since I fixed the SP2
problems - overall. After all, the control of the Windows Firewall from a
GPO is fantastic - External and internal firewalls...

Anyway - although I am not saying anything is wrong with your statement, I
hope I have at least contributed to your thought process.. With a little
pre-planning, Windows XP SP2 will work for MOST people without a hitch. And
if they did that same pre-planning, for those that it wouldn't work for -
they already know.

Can you point me to a reference that categorically identifies *any*
piece of adware or spyware which is known to conflict with SP2 or
*known* to create installation problems? Now granted, common sense
tells us, or should tell us, that those are undesireable things, but you
are being nothing more than a parrot, and not a very bright one, when
you repeat the problems-are-caused-by-spyware mantra. I find it very
amusing that SP2 apologists like Carey and Jupiter are fond of saying
that MS couldn't possibly have tested SP2 on all possible
configurations, which is certainly true, but out of the other sides of
their mouths they tell us, as Carey does in this very thread, "A
well-maintained PC will install SP2 without any adverse installation
issues." But if MS didn't test all possible configurations, how does he
know that to be true? He doesn't.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

You failed to specify any specific issue you had attempting
to install SP2. How in the world do you expect any help
if you cannot provide even a smidgeon of issues you had?

Please review the following:

How to Make a Good Newsgroup Post
http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Can you point me to a reference that categorically identifies *any*
piece of adware or spyware which is known to conflict with SP2 or
*known* to create installation problems? Now granted, common sense
tells us, or should tell us, that those are undesireable things, but
you are being nothing more than a parrot, and not a very bright one,
when you repeat the problems-are-caused-by-spyware mantra. I find it
very amusing that SP2 apologists like Carey and Jupiter are fond of
saying that MS couldn't possibly have tested SP2 on all possible
configurations, which is certainly true, but out of the other sides of
their mouths they tell us, as Carey does in this very thread, "A
well-maintained PC will install SP2 without any adverse installation
issues." But if MS didn't test all possible configurations, how does
he know that to be true? He doesn't.

First off, I do not appreciate the implication that I am not intelligent. I
presented you with an intelligent argument and essentially received the
response of "Bawk Bawk".

I have personally removed adware that was installed on the machines prior to
SP2's installation and SP2 had, in its ignorance of what the application
did, opened the appropriate holes in the firewall. I have also been to
machines where users installed applications known to contain spyware/malware
and because they wanted their Bonzi Buddy/Weatherbug/iWon/P2P crud to work,
they just answered "Yes, allow it" to whatever they saw - thus opening the
necessary ports to allow more spying/ads, etc - then wonder why they are
getting them.

I never stated that ALL well maintained PCs would install SP2 without
adverse effects - I did quite the obvious. I did state that the ratio is
far from 50/50 and closer to 80% good/20% bad with 75% of that 20% bad
being user controllable and 25% being either Microsoft's or some third party
application/hardware manufacturer's fault. (Just like when people started
going from Windows 98 to Windows XP and the Printer/Scanner manufacturers
did not put out drivers so that people would be (in essence) forced to buy
new compatible scanners/printers.)

I have seen SP2's firewall mess with HP printers, whose full drivers for
some reason want HP to send them data - what's up with that?!

Random find..
http://chris-cohen.blogspot.com/2004/09/old-spyware-causes-new-service-pack-2.html

As for what Carey or Jupiter or anyone else says - *shrug*, again - I
beleive someone should do their own research before doing anything,
especially something that is as large as a service pack where their computer
and all the information on it is concerned. Essentially, although I may
respect what you, Jupiter and/or Carey have to say - I will not blindly
follow the advice.

If you are going to quote me on the next post, quote this next paragraph:

I never said that all the problems were caused merely by spyware.. I said
that of the 20% bad that seem to be common, 75% of those could be fixed by a
user putting forth the effort to make sure their PC is ready for SP2 - it's
not a small upgrade, it's not a minor change - common sense says you don't
go buy a new couch for your home before you measure the door to make sure it
will fit. (Or make sure it goes with the decor, won't clash with your other
furniture, etc.) Spyware is ONE part, hardware drivers another, software
patches and looking to see if your current software has had problems with
SP2 (visit their web page - they usually have messages in their support
section if they have had issues), defragmenting your hard drive, backing up
important files and folders (again - MAJOR change here - don't be a moron
about it), checking to make sure even your system BIOS is compatible.

As with any system-wide upgrade; go in with a plan, don't go in blind.

 

[Herb Fritatta]

You failed to specify any specific issue you had attempting
to install SP2. How in the world do you expect any help
if you cannot provide even a smidgeon of issues you had?

Please review the following:

How to Make a Good Newsgroup Post
http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

I wasn't *asking* for help, but you can bet that if I ever do, I won't
be asking you. And you want to tell *me* how to make a good post? Why
don't you follow your own advice, and try reading before cutting and
pating your droning responses?

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

This is a Microsoft "help"newsgroup.
Why bother posting here if you cannot
ask an intelligent question that could
possibly lead to a solution to a problem
you have with the Windows XP operating
system or installing SP2?

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

-----------------------------------------------------------------

:

| I wasn't *asking* for help, but you can bet that if I ever do, I won't
| be asking you. And you want to tell *me* how to make a good post? Why
| don't you follow your own advice, and try reading before cutting and
| pating your droning responses?

 

[Herb Fritatta]

First off, I do not appreciate the implication that I am not intelligent. I
presented you with an intelligent argument and essentially received the
response of "Bawk Bawk".

I have personally removed adware that was installed on the machines prior to
SP2's installation and SP2 had, in its ignorance of what the application
did, opened the appropriate holes in the firewall. I have also been to
machines where users installed applications known to contain spyware/malware
and because they wanted their Bonzi Buddy/Weatherbug/iWon/P2P crud to work,
they just answered "Yes, allow it" to whatever they saw - thus opening the
necessary ports to allow more spying/ads, etc - then wonder why they are
getting them.

I never stated that ALL well maintained PCs would install SP2 without
adverse effects - I did quite the obvious. I did state that the ratio is
far from 50/50 and closer to 80% good/20% bad with 75% of that 20% bad
being user controllable and 25% being either Microsoft's or some third party
application/hardware manufacturer's fault. (Just like when people started
going from Windows 98 to Windows XP and the Printer/Scanner manufacturers
did not put out drivers so that people would be (in essence) forced to buy
new compatible scanners/printers.)

I have seen SP2's firewall mess with HP printers, whose full drivers for
some reason want HP to send them data - what's up with that?!

Random find..
http://chris-cohen.blogspot.com/2004/09/old-spyware-causes-new-service-pack-2.html

As for what Carey or Jupiter or anyone else says - *shrug*, again - I
beleive someone should do their own research before doing anything,
especially something that is as large as a service pack where their computer
and all the information on it is concerned. Essentially, although I may
respect what you, Jupiter and/or Carey have to say - I will not blindly
follow the advice.

If you are going to quote me on the next post, quote this next paragraph:

I never said that all the problems were caused merely by spyware.. I said
that of the 20% bad that seem to be common, 75% of those could be fixed by a
user putting forth the effort to make sure their PC is ready for SP2 - it's
not a small upgrade, it's not a minor change - common sense says you don't
go buy a new couch for your home before you measure the door to make sure it
will fit. (Or make sure it goes with the decor, won't clash with your other
furniture, etc.) Spyware is ONE part, hardware drivers another, software
patches and looking to see if your current software has had problems with
SP2 (visit their web page - they usually have messages in their support
section if they have had issues), defragmenting your hard drive, backing up
important files and folders (again - MAJOR change here - don't be a moron
about it), checking to make sure even your system BIOS is compatible.

As with any system-wide upgrade; go in with a plan, don't go in blind.

The advice to be prepared is good and I have no argument with it. I
think I owe you at least a partial apology because I went off on you
(i.e., I responded directly to your post) when my indignation should
have been more diffusely aimed. That said, I still maintain that there's
far too much assumption that individual users must have done something
wrong when an SP2 install goes awry.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Where did I say something that means this:
"A well-maintained PC will install SP2 without any adverse
installation
issues."
You need to read my posts again if you think I said that.

I avoid such all encompassing statements for many reasons not the
least of which I have no control over your computer.
Preparation will reduce the chance of problems but the only thing
capable of promising no problems for you with your computer is boxing
it up and sending it away.

You say:
"Can you point me to a reference..."
Then you say:
"Now granted, common sense tells us, or should tell us"
You really answered your own question.
If you read all the posts in the forums, you will see some where
spyware viruses etc were the cause, they were removed, SP-2 now
installs properly.
There are not many but they are there.
I have seen it many times, so it is first hand and not a parrot as you
seem to think.
But then again as you said "common sense tells us"

 

[Ingit]

Here's my take on the matter, as I', one individual who will post the good
or positive on the upgrade. I have installed SP2 on 6 home computers since
it was released to the public and have yet experienced any problems. Call
me "Lucky", or maybe what most MVP's are telling the public is true.

1. Do your homework before installing, i.e.: drivers, software updates
2. BACKUP all important data
3. Keep your OS as clean as possible. i.e.: antivirus, spyware removal,
defrag
4. Use newsgroups, search for subjects that may pertain to your situation

I have too much hardware crap to list, so I'm going to spew on about that.
All I know is that I practice "safe" computing. I'm behind a hardware
firewall and have zonealarm on all my boxes. I'm not at all scared to dive
into the registry if needed. Followed all the Release Candidate posting by
people who knew what they were doing by installing SP2. Searched the
internet for more articles than I care to remember about the pitfalls of
SP2.

With all this in mind, I took the plunge and downloaded the entire SP,
burned to a disk and also stored on my server. 1 Computer was updated by
using the disk. 4 computers were updated with the file stored locally on
the HD. The last box, and probably the most important was my wife's work
system, which I updated using the auto-update feature. Any errors to that
one and my life becomes a living hell!!! I even let my wife perform this
one.

Sytems networked throughout the house:

Gateway laptop 1.8mhz Audio/Video connected to stereo
Sager laptop 2.4mhz my main box as desktop replacement
Gateway Desktop 1.8mhz wife main work
Intel Dual Xeon 600mhz file server
Gateway laptop 1.8mhz daughters school computer
AMD K6-500 dual boot w/ Linux

So Far, I have had only one issue with SP2, and that was because of some
screwey codecs after installng WMP10. Un-installed WMP, restored to an
eralier date and was fine afterwards.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that if more people would take the time
to do some research on this subject matter instead of just installing
because some friend said to, then maybe their computing experience would be
a bit better. SP2 really doesn't look like much of an upgrade from the
average person's view, but it is much more that that. most of the changes
were made at the OS Core level. Functioality hasn't really changed at all.

I'm by no means any authority on this matter, nor are my opinions meant to
be. I'm just an average user. I don't have an A+, MSCE, MVP, anything else
MS might think I need. I'm just someone who enjoys computers, likes to
tinker and experiment, but also understand the reality of the Internet world
and that people make it go 'round. Whenever there's a human element
involved...............

Thanks for Listening

 

[Peter R. Fletcher]

I have installed SP2 on three systems without a single glitch, and I
know of lots of others whose experiences have been similar. You hear
about the problems, not the "no problem"s.

Do I detect a thread here, lotsa people seem to be
updating to XP SP2 and then start losing things like
soundcards, lan ports, printers, scanners, drives,
removable drives

Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up
completely???

Hugh

Please respond to the Newsgroup, so that others may benefit from the exchange.
Peter R. Fletcher

 

[xfile]

Hi:

First of all, I don't think Microsoft is so stupid that it wishes to screw
up everyone's system unless it wants to close down for good.

The intension is surly good and the problems are definitely exist.

I have never seen a single "perfect" product in any categories without any
problems. Please enlighten me, if you have seen a perfect product in the
world.

As a user who also knows a bit of computer, I can fully understand the
frustration when we encountered problems; sometime I just wished to kick
someone's butt.

There are many experts and reviews out there discussing if SP2 is truly
needed. Many think it's good and others think differently.

I do think MS is trying to "help" its customers and "do" its part of works
on more safe computing and using Internet technologies.

If we don't think that we need SP2, let's use other ways to solve the
problem.

If we think we need it, we just install it.

If we need helps from here, I ask and hope someone will be kind enough to
provide.

The point is, there has never been a perfect product in the world regardless
of it's a software, hardware, or even an airplane, and there will never be
one.

There is not need to use limited facts to argue about if SP2 is good or bad.

The choice is ours, right? It has been always like that