Machine dead after power outage. Why, and what to do?

[JohnClutchFrum]

Yesterday morning there was a blackout while I was using the
computer. The UPS kept the machine going while I saved the file I was
working on, then shut the machine down normally, no problem. I turned
off the UPS and unplugged everything from the wall. The power was on
by then, but around here outages tend to come in a series, so I left
things as is, then went to work.

When I came back, the computer was completely dead, in which state it
remains. About all I can add to that is if I connect the power cord
to the wall outlet and keep my ear close, I can hear a brief
crackling, so I guess it's drawing something.

Two questions:

(1) Why did this happen? At no time was the computer, or anything
connected to it, unprotected. (Except for the printer, which is
plugged directly into the wall outlet and connected by usb, and it was
unplugged when I left.)

(2) Any ideas about what to do next? Try replacing the motherboard,
or what? How do I track down the problem when the machine isn't
giving me any clues?

Here are the components, in case it makes a difference:


ECS 865PE-A motherboard
Powerware 5115 UPS
Pentium 4 3.06 Ghz
4 gig DDR 400 Crucial ram
PC Power and Cooling Turbo-cool 510 ATX power supply
Matrox Parhelia video card
Adaptec SCSI card 29320LP
Seagate Cheetah 36.7GB SCSI drive ST336753LW
2 Seagate Cheetah 18.4GB SCSI drives ST318453LW
Asus DRW-0402P DVD-R / RW Drive
Generic diskette drive
1 Viewsonic 19" VX900 LCD display
2 Viewsonic 19" VP930B LCD displays
Western Digital WD2000JBRT drive
Big case with lotsa fans

 

[JAD]

take the UPS out of the scenario

 

[philo]

Yesterday morning there was a blackout while I was using the
computer. The UPS kept the machine going while I saved the file I was
working on, then shut the machine down normally, no problem. I turned
off the UPS and unplugged everything from the wall. The power was on
by then, but around here outages tend to come in a series, so I left
things as is, then went to work.

When I came back, the computer was completely dead, in which state it
remains. About all I can add to that is if I connect the power cord
to the wall outlet and keep my ear close, I can hear a brief
crackling, so I guess it's drawing something.

<snip>

try resetting the bios

try a different powersupply

 

[MCheu]

Yesterday morning there was a blackout while I was using the
computer. The UPS kept the machine going while I saved the file I was
working on, then shut the machine down normally, no problem. I turned
off the UPS and unplugged everything from the wall. The power was on
by then, but around here outages tend to come in a series, so I left
things as is, then went to work.

When I came back, the computer was completely dead, in which state it
remains. About all I can add to that is if I connect the power cord
to the wall outlet and keep my ear close, I can hear a brief
crackling, so I guess it's drawing something.

Two questions:

(1) Why did this happen? At no time was the computer, or anything
connected to it, unprotected. (Except for the printer, which is
plugged directly into the wall outlet and connected by usb, and it was
unplugged when I left.)

Check the back of the PSU. There should be a toggle switch in the
back of the PSU. Unlike the push button up front, this one's a REAL
power switch like we had in the old days, and it'll kill all power to
the system. On some PSUs (at least all the ATX ones I've used), this
switch will automatically trip to OFF if power is interrupted. You
have to flip that switch back, while there's current going to it to
re-enable the PSU.

(2) Any ideas about what to do next? Try replacing the motherboard,
or what? How do I track down the problem when the machine isn't
giving me any clues?

Try my suggestion first, if you haven't already. I'm not sure about
the crackling noise though.

 

[Ed Medlin]

take the UPS out of the scenario

Agreed. My APC-1500 will work fine after a long outage but my old CyberPower
would not power up anything for quite awhile after a long outage until the
battery was completely charged. His power problems sound a lot like it is
here. During our last ice storm a couple of weeks ago I ran my house off a
generator for over a week and you definately need a UPS then, at least for
critical and expensive items. Even without weather events we have brown outs
daily and complete black outs quite often for short periods. It is something
you just have to live with in very rural areas.

Ed

 

[DaveW]

It sounds like your PSU failed, possibly due to a voltage spike on the
incoming power line at the beginning of the blackout. A high end surge
supressor would have prevented that. And if your PSU failed, it's possible
that the spike also fried your motherboard.

 

[JohnClutchFrum]

Check the back of the PSU. There should be a toggle switch in the
back of the PSU. Unlike the push button up front, this one's a REAL
power switch like we had in the old days, and it'll kill all power to
the system. On some PSUs (at least all the ATX ones I've used), this
switch will automatically trip to OFF if power is interrupted. You
have to flip that switch back, while there's current going to it to
re-enable the PSU.

Turns out that one power supply just has a voltage select switch, the
other not even that.

 

[JohnClutchFrum]

It sounds like your PSU failed, possibly due to a voltage spike on the
incoming power line at the beginning of the blackout. A high end surge
supressor would have prevented that. And if your PSU failed, it's possible
that the spike also fried your motherboard.

Turns out that it was the power supply, but everything else is okay.
What's bothering me is that it *is* a high-end UPS. Plenty expensive,
anyway.

Strange thing -- I've owned three UPS's in my life, and they've all
gone bad quickly -- usually just after the warranty expired. Anyone
have a recommendation for a good one?

 

[w_tom]

Turns out that it was the power supply, but everything else is okay.
What's bothering me is that it *is* a high-end UPS. Plenty expensive,
anyway.

Did you believe a myth that a plug-in UPS provides transient
protection? That UPS has one function - to protect data from
blackouts and extreme brownouts. When UPS goes into battery backup
mode, then a computer is confronted with some of the 'dirtiest'
electricity. For example, what does this UPS output as 120 VAC when
in battery backup mode? Two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up
to 270 volts between those square waves. This is 'spun' as a modified
sine wave.

Typical UPS output in battery backup mode is so 'dirty' that a UPS
output may even damage small electric motors. But that output is
acceptable to a computer because computers are so robust.

Again, if you thought that UPS provided some type of hardware
protection, then look for that protection in its numerical spec
sheets. Where does it list each type of transient AND numerically
define protection for each type of transient? It does not. That UPS
manufacturer makes no such hardware protection claims. Only myths
claim that hardware protection. Your UPS is for data protection. As
described by your first post, UPS did exactly what its specs claim.

 

[Rod Speed]

Did you believe a myth that a plug-in UPS provides transient protection?

It aint a myth, plenty do just that.

That UPS has one function - to protect data from blackouts and extreme brownouts.

Wrong, as always.

And continuous UPSs clean the power up substantially anyway.

When UPS goes into battery backup mode, then a computer
is confronted with some of the 'dirtiest' electricity.

Mindless pig ignorant drivel, as always from this stupid clown.

For example, what does this UPS output as 120 VAC when
in battery backup mode? Two 200 volt square waves with
a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves.

Some do, some dont.

This is 'spun' as a modified sine wave.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.

Typical UPS output in battery backup mode is so 'dirty' that
a UPS output may even damage small electric motors.
Fantasy.

But that output is acceptable to a computer because computers are so robust.

Nope, because they rectify the mains and that approach
doesnt give a damn whether its gets a sine wave or not.

Again, if you thought that UPS provided some type of hardware
protection, then look for that protection in its numerical spec
sheets. Where does it list each type of transient AND numerically
define protection for each type of transient? It does not.

Doesnt mean that that doesnt happen anyway.

That UPS manufacturer makes no such hardware protection claims.

Doesnt mean that that doesnt happen anyway.

Only myths claim that hardware protection.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.

Your UPS is for data protection. As described by
your first post, UPS did exactly what its specs claim.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a ****ing clue.

 

[bud--]

Did you believe a myth that a plug-in UPS provides transient
protection? That UPS has one function - to protect data from
blackouts and extreme brownouts.

A UPS may or may not include effective surge protection. Or a UPS can
be plugged in to a plug--in surge protector.

Excellent informtion on surges and surge suppression from the IEEE is
at:
http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/
LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf
And from the NIST at:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf

Note that interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same
plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires, like LAN need to go
through the suppressor. Other external wires like phone, cable TV, ...
also need to go thorough the suppressor. The voltage on ALL wires to a
protected device needs to be clamped to the common ground at the surge
suppressor. This is described in both guides.