What causes Vista PC to freeze?

M

M Skabialka

A friend's Vista computer started booting only as far as the round Vista
logo then froze. I took the PC home and using my keyboard, mouse and
monitor did some maintenance, upped the memory etc and took it back. It
still froze at the logo. I replaced the keyboard and mouse and monitor one
by one to no avail. Took everything home and it worked as a system, but at
his house - still freezes.
Is this an electrical problem - if so how could I find out? Their other
computer works fine.
 
B

Bigguy

M said:
A friend's Vista computer started booting only as far as the round Vista
logo then froze. I took the PC home and using my keyboard, mouse and
monitor did some maintenance, upped the memory etc and took it back. It
still froze at the logo. I replaced the keyboard and mouse and monitor one
by one to no avail. Took everything home and it worked as a system, but at
his house - still freezes.
Is this an electrical problem - if so how could I find out? Their other
computer works fine.
Will it start in Safe Mode? (f8 during boot)

If yes it's a driver issue - has anything been added recently?

Could be hard drive corruption, registry errors and a few other
things... ;-(

Try Safe Mode first.

G
 
D

Don Tolbert

Yes. If the computer works at your house, but the same system does not work
at his house, then there are possibly two reasons.

1). Electrical. If the computer is not getting sufficient voltage/amperage,
once the video and other drivers get the hardware going, it could draw too
much from the power supply to keep it functioning.
a.) Is there another location in your friends house that you can try
booting the computer up. If so, try that. One way or the other, you will
know if it's isolated to that one location or the whole house. A certified
electrician can give you exact readings and suggestions.
2.) We know it's not drivers because the drivers don't change from one house
to the next. But it could be network connection. Check with another
computer (if possible) to boot up in that same location with network
connections.

Don_T
 
M

M Skabialka

It's a computer, not a laptop.

Van Chocstraw said:
The only difference between houses would be external devices such as USB
storage etc. When you take it are us just using batteries or taking the PS
with it?
 
M

M Skabialka

Yes it will start in safe mode - I changed to VGA 600x800 drivers in safe
mode at home and that's what it uses at their house.
Since it was freezing up I ran diagnostics and updated video, network and
audio drivers per the diagnosis.
 
M

M Skabialka

I tried it at four separate locations in their house, on different circuits.
I updated video, audio and network drivers at home because of the freeze-up
issues.
They have another computer with no problems.
Since I updated network drivers I haven't connected back to their wireless
network because it won't complete booting. I can connect wirelessly at
home.

So I guess they need to call an electrician.
Thanks for all suggestions,
Mich
 
M

M Skabialka

A desktop computer (i.e. a personal computer (PC) in a form intended for
regular use at a single location, as opposed to a mobile laptop or portable
computer) - and everyone else knows that is what I am talking about. So no
battery, or removable power supply.
 
D

Drew T

M Skabialka,

Two thoughts. A bad power supply, is the PC a few years old? Combine that
with different voltage levels in the two houses. You should be able to check
the voltages from the PC's BIOS at each location. My Intel BIOS lists what
the voltages should be and the actual voltage at that time. They should be
very close to each other and the actual voltages will fluctuate minimally as
your reading them. Press the F2 key during startup to enter the BIOS and use
the arrow keys to scroll through the BIOS and the ESC key to exit that area.
They may be hidden in an 'advanced settings' area. Do not make any changes.

I'm leaning towards a bad power supply.

Drew
 
A

Alan Montgomery

I tried it at four separate locations in their house, on different
circuits.
I updated video, audio and network drivers at home because of the
freeze-up
issues.
They have another computer with no problems.
Since I updated network drivers I haven't connected back to their
wireless
network because it won't complete booting. I can connect wirelessly at
home.

So I guess they need to call an electrician.
Thanks for all suggestions,
Mich

I am not entirely convinced by the bad mains supply theory. This is not
something I would to have a sudden, sharp, onset, nor a highly reliable
point of failure. I would also expect to see minor symptoms in other
devices - especially differences between high load times, such as Sunday
lunch, and low load times.

In your first post you said you took it home and used your keyboard,
mouse, and monitor. It would be a good idea to try the same peripherals in
the two locations.

I would also look at internal voltages. I use CPUID HW Monitor
(http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php)
Install this and run it and make a note of voltages. First at home in both
safe node, and normal mode, and ideally with both monitors. Also try
playing a game - the extra load on the system may have an effect. As an
alternative is stability testing software - I have a nVidia card, and I
have nTune (http://www.nvidia.com/object/ntune_5.05.54.00.html) - the
advantage of this is it is more likely to work in safe mode.

The try as much of this as you can at your friends.
If it is a mains voltage problem I would expect to see some values lower,
and more volatility in the values.

Another thing to try is to bypass the login screen. See
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315231, or
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/tips/advanced/autologon.mspx
- while these are for XP I have seen statements that the second works in
Vista, and I suspect the first does too.

Another would be to disable the network connection.
 
W

westom

I tried it at four separate locations in their house, ...
They have another computer with no problems. ...

Any computer must work fine even when AC mains voltage drops so low
that incandescent lamps are at less than 50% intensity. But a
defective computer may work in some places and not others. Do lights
glow normally in both? Then the electrician would not find any
problems.

Your problem is why responsible computer manufacturers provide
comprehensive hardware diagnostics for free. If AC power was a
problem, then hardware diagnostics would either report symptoms that
identified that problem, help build a list of what is known good, OR
trace failure to other suspects. If your computer manufacturer was
not responsible, then a critically important tool was withheld

Currently you are speculating based on a limited number of facts.
The computer could be completely defective. Therefore work in your
house and fail in theirs. A number of standard tests could have
better identified the problem. But nobody (apparently from your
responses) has identified those necessary and obviously powerful
suggestions.

First and foremost would be less than two minutes and a multimeter
to report the few critical voltages; especially when computer accesses
all peripherals simultaneously (maximum load). Voltages from any one
of purple, orange, red, and yellow wires from power supply to
motherboard.

In your case, those measurements performed both in your house and
theirs. And those numbers reported here because their values include
information you may not appreciate.

This much we do know. A defective computer can work fine from one
power source and not another. One would jump to conclusions if
fundamental electrical knowledge was not included in that conclusion.
 
M

M Skabialka

Your problem is why responsible computer manufacturers provide
comprehensive hardware diagnostics for free.
Where do you find these hardware diagnostics utilities? This is a 2 year
old eMachine.
First and foremost would be less than two minutes and a multimeter to
report the few critical voltages; especially when computer accesses all
peripherals simultaneously (maximum load).
I tested the montior at their house with only the monitor plugged in - no
mouse, KB, audio or network. Same problem - gets to the Windows logo and
freezes. If the speakers are installed it gets to the Windows logo, starts
to play the Windows tune then starts to gurgle on the same tone until shut
off.
What do you test with the multimeter - i.e. where are you placing the leads?
A number of standard tests could have better identified the problem.
What standard tests?
 
W

westom

Where do you find these hardware diagnostics utilities?  This is a 2 year
old eMachine.
...
I tested the montior at their house with only the monitor plugged in - no
mouse, KB, audio or network.  Same problem - gets to the Windows logo and
freezes.  If the speakers are installed it gets to the Windows logo, starts
to play the Windows tune then starts to gurgle on the same tone until shut
off.
What do you test with the multimeter - i.e. where are you placing the leads?

eMachines will not provide those diagnostics. Any money you saved
with eMachines will be lost with events (such as this) that end up
costing more time and money.

First let’s start with what you know. Apparently the BIOS is working
properly. The system even boots. As it loaded more drivers and
accesses more hardware, it fails.

And the failure is more likely from some AC electric sources than
from others.

The one suspect that can make everything else act failed is the
power supply system (more than just a power supply). As noted
previously, "Voltages from any one of purple, orange, red, and yellow
wires from power supply to motherboard." Connector chart to locate
each color:
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html
Set meter for 20 volts DC. Attach the black lead to chassis. Push
the red probe into that nylon connector to measure each voltage.
Those numbers should be greater than 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7 volts.

Also informative would be how those numbers change in the other
location both when booting AND when computer accesses (multitasks to)
all peripherals simultaneously. IOW play complex video graphics (ie a
movie) while downloading from the internet, while playing sound, while
searching the disk drive, etc. Now those numbers report more useful
facts about the many components of the power supply system.

Number of hardware items that can crash a computer is smaller. You
might start looking for those diagnostics for memory, video
controller, and sound card. The list of suspects also includes CPU
and only some motherboard functions. Work made unnecessary if
eMachines had bothered to provide their better comprehensive
diagnostic. However I am betting the meter will definitively identify
a suspect first.
 
M

M Skabialka

Update: Took a battery backup to their house and plugged their computer in -
no AC power at all. Same problem - it hung at the Windows logo. That
eliminated their house power as a suspect. Used a multi-meter to test the
power supply and found no problems. Removed the PCI modem and wireless
cards and it booted up fine! Put them back in reverse order - it booted
fine, and then hung up after a few minutes. Removed them again and left
them out. The computer works but has no internet access. They have a
router but since only one computer is using the internet it is being
bypassed (modem -> computer) but is still on. Reportedly he had problems
(??) with it. After I left I realized I should have turned it off to see if
it was broadcasting something that interfered with the wireless card, since
the card worked at my home with my wireless router. Next step: reset the
router, test wireless card or buy new, or string a network cable to that
room.
Mich


Where do you find these hardware diagnostics utilities? This is a 2 year
old eMachine.
...
I tested the montior at their house with only the monitor plugged in - no
mouse, KB, audio or network. Same problem - gets to the Windows logo and
freezes. If the speakers are installed it gets to the Windows logo, starts
to play the Windows tune then starts to gurgle on the same tone until shut
off.
What do you test with the multimeter - i.e. where are you placing the
leads?

eMachines will not provide those diagnostics. Any money you saved
with eMachines will be lost with events (such as this) that end up
costing more time and money.

First let’s start with what you know. Apparently the BIOS is working
properly. The system even boots. As it loaded more drivers and
accesses more hardware, it fails.

And the failure is more likely from some AC electric sources than
from others.

The one suspect that can make everything else act failed is the
power supply system (more than just a power supply). As noted
previously, "Voltages from any one of purple, orange, red, and yellow
wires from power supply to motherboard." Connector chart to locate
each color:
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html
Set meter for 20 volts DC. Attach the black lead to chassis. Push
the red probe into that nylon connector to measure each voltage.
Those numbers should be greater than 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7 volts.

Also informative would be how those numbers change in the other
location both when booting AND when computer accesses (multitasks to)
all peripherals simultaneously. IOW play complex video graphics (ie a
movie) while downloading from the internet, while playing sound, while
searching the disk drive, etc. Now those numbers report more useful
facts about the many components of the power supply system.

Number of hardware items that can crash a computer is smaller. You
might start looking for those diagnostics for memory, video
controller, and sound card. The list of suspects also includes CPU
and only some motherboard functions. Work made unnecessary if
eMachines had bothered to provide their better comprehensive
diagnostic. However I am betting the meter will definitively identify
a suspect first.
 
W

westom

Update: Took a battery backup to their house and plugged their computer in -
no AC power at all.  Same problem - it hung at the Windows logo.  That
eliminated their house power as a suspect.  Used a multi-meter to test the
power supply and found no problems.  Removed the PCI modem and wireless
cards and it booted up fine!  Put them back in reverse order - it booted
fine, and then hung up after a few minutes.  Removed them again and left
them out.  The computer works but has no internet access. ...

It's not entirely clear whether that was no access with network /
phone cable disconnected or if problem elimination also requires
removing peripheral cards. If card removal is required, well, why did
it work in your place.

Possible that a card was always defective - but the defect only
appeared in warm environments. Heat is a diagnostic tool. If true,
then a defective card probably would have been found months ago in a
warmer room while executing comprehensive hardware diagnostics (that
only more responsible computer manufacturer's provide).

BTW, not provided are multimeter numbers especially when computer is
under maximum load. Multimeter numbers contain information that I
would grasp and that you might not. Just another advantage provided
by a multimeter. Better is not not short your help of facts -
especially numbers.
 
M

M Skabialka

Their house is no warmer or cooler than mine.
They have never used the PCI modem, they have cable internet service. Since
I removed the wireless card and I didn't bring a long enough network cable
to test the onboard NIC they have no Internet access to that machine at the
moment.
At my house both the wireless card and onboard NIC worked 100% of the time.
The electrical guy who came with me tested the power to the motherboard with
a multimeter and found approriate values according to the motherboard
schematics though did not test under load as he thought it unnecessary since
the machine worked for two years, and had no hardware changes.
I am leaning toward the router issue as the problem, but haven't tested the
theory yet.

Update: Took a battery backup to their house and plugged their computer
in -
no AC power at all. Same problem - it hung at the Windows logo. That
eliminated their house power as a suspect. Used a multi-meter to test the
power supply and found no problems. Removed the PCI modem and wireless
cards and it booted up fine! Put them back in reverse order - it booted
fine, and then hung up after a few minutes. Removed them again and left
them out. The computer works but has no internet access. ...

It's not entirely clear whether that was no access with network /
phone cable disconnected or if problem elimination also requires
removing peripheral cards. If card removal is required, well, why did
it work in your place.

Possible that a card was always defective - but the defect only
appeared in warm environments. Heat is a diagnostic tool. If true,
then a defective card probably would have been found months ago in a
warmer room while executing comprehensive hardware diagnostics (that
only more responsible computer manufacturer's provide).

BTW, not provided are multimeter numbers especially when computer is
under maximum load. Multimeter numbers contain information that I
would grasp and that you might not. Just another advantage provided
by a multimeter. Better is not not short your help of facts -
especially numbers.
 
W

westom

At my house both the wireless card and onboard NIC worked 100% of the time.
The electrical guy who came with me tested the power to the motherboard with
a multimeter and found approriate values according to the motherboard
schematics though did not test under load as he thought it unnecessary since
the machine worked for two years,

Without a load, then multimeter numbers are inconclusive. An
informed electronics guy would know that. I said, "not provided are
multimeter numbers especially when computer is under maximum load."
If your electrical guy did not understand that, then he had
insufficient electronics knowledge. A load is essential. Otherwise
testing was time wasted. Also noted: “multimeter numbers contain
information that I would grasp and that you might not.”

eMachines does not provide schematics. Schematics do not provide
useful measurement numbers. "Good" means nothing. Any advantage from
the multimeter was lost without a full load and without posting those
numbers here so that hidden information is identified.

But again, I am repeating myself. I needed those numbers to be
helpful. A power supply that was defective 2 years ago can start
causing strange failures today AND would not be apparent without
measuring under load. Many assume a 5% variation. Assume 3.15 is
sufficient for 3.3 volts. However due to information I have provided
and how multimeters work, 3.15 means a defective supply. The minimum
number was 3.23. No schematic provides that number. Furthermore, a
number above that could still indicate another problem. But to learn
that, you must post all four numbers.


I am still not sure what you have posted. It does not work in their
house with NIC installed and no ethernet connection? Or it does work
only when ethernet cable is disconnected? Or they are using a USB
connection; not ethernet? Or it does not work unless both NIC and
wireless card are removed? Or it does work if NIC and wireless cards
are installed and connected, but disabled in the Network Connection
panel? Or it works except when ethernet cable is connected?
Continuing on that last assumption -

Ethernet cables have galvanic isolation at both ends. If
electricity from the router is causing computer failure, then, 1)
router has a power supply failure, 2) galvanic isolation in the router
has failed, and 3) galvanic isolation in the computer has failed. All
three must be defective. If you replaced the router and it worked,
you still have another failure - the NIC. Not likely.

Or NIC only causes problems when the wireless card also makes a
wireless connection?

Well, NIC operation is not in a list that can cause an OS lockup.
Did you mean network access locked (stopped) - OS still works?

If not asked in a first post, then I was remiss. What did system
(event) logs report?

Apparently you suspect an NIC. It is an eMachine. Therefore
download that diagnostic from the NIC manufacturer. What does the NIC
diagnostic report with ethernet cable connected, with cable
disconnected, and in both locations? If the NIC is onboard, then
locate the NIC's manufacturer name and chip number. Then find that
diagnostic.

If the router did fail on its ethernet cable, then so did the
computer's NIC. Two extremely unlikely failures? Either both have
failed and must be replaced, or neither creates a computer freeze.

So what do system (event) logs report? Again, text is important.
But numbers are essential. Those error messages without numbers may
be useless. And the most important messages are often only ones that
mean zero to you.

Computer has classic symptoms of a defective supply system. Yes, a
system which is more than a supply. Supply may be only just starting
to cause computer failures, and identified using a multimeter with
computer under full load. If problem is traceable to the NIC, then
NIC diagnostic will confirm that (with and without cable connected) or
provide information that identified what makes the NIC look defective.
 
M

M Skabialka

I really appreciate your persistance in trying to help with this problem,
but you must realize that I am fixing this computer as a friend (no pay!)
and hiring a competent electrical engineer doesn't come into the budget.
The person I am using has a degree in Avionics so I have to asssume he knows
what he is talking about, and I don't have the qualifications to question
his judgement. His multimeter was analog so it would be difficult to get a
2 decimal place accurate reading anyway.
There are two computers at their house. One is connected directly to the
modem. Everything works.
The other boots properly if there is no wireless NIC or modem in the PCI
slots on the motherboard. It does not boot if they are installed. I did not
bring a network cable to test if the onboard NIC worked. However, this
computer works properly at my house with the PCI cards installed, using
wireless or the LAN cable.
The only thing that seems different is their vs our router. Theirs was on,
ie powered up therefore broadcasting, but not connected to their modem. I
did not turn it off because I didn't think about it while I was there. I am
waiting on their decision as to what they want me to try next. My thinking
is to replace the router.


At my house both the wireless card and onboard NIC worked 100% of the
time.
The electrical guy who came with me tested the power to the motherboard
with
a multimeter and found approriate values according to the motherboard
schematics though did not test under load as he thought it unnecessary
since
the machine worked for two years,

Without a load, then multimeter numbers are inconclusive. An
informed electronics guy would know that. I said, "not provided are
multimeter numbers especially when computer is under maximum load."
If your electrical guy did not understand that, then he had
insufficient electronics knowledge. A load is essential. Otherwise
testing was time wasted. Also noted: “multimeter numbers contain
information that I would grasp and that you might not.”

eMachines does not provide schematics. Schematics do not provide
useful measurement numbers. "Good" means nothing. Any advantage from
the multimeter was lost without a full load and without posting those
numbers here so that hidden information is identified.

But again, I am repeating myself. I needed those numbers to be
helpful. A power supply that was defective 2 years ago can start
causing strange failures today AND would not be apparent without
measuring under load. Many assume a 5% variation. Assume 3.15 is
sufficient for 3.3 volts. However due to information I have provided
and how multimeters work, 3.15 means a defective supply. The minimum
number was 3.23. No schematic provides that number. Furthermore, a
number above that could still indicate another problem. But to learn
that, you must post all four numbers.


I am still not sure what you have posted. It does not work in their
house with NIC installed and no ethernet connection? Or it does work
only when ethernet cable is disconnected? Or they are using a USB
connection; not ethernet? Or it does not work unless both NIC and
wireless card are removed? Or it does work if NIC and wireless cards
are installed and connected, but disabled in the Network Connection
panel? Or it works except when ethernet cable is connected?
Continuing on that last assumption -

Ethernet cables have galvanic isolation at both ends. If
electricity from the router is causing computer failure, then, 1)
router has a power supply failure, 2) galvanic isolation in the router
has failed, and 3) galvanic isolation in the computer has failed. All
three must be defective. If you replaced the router and it worked,
you still have another failure - the NIC. Not likely.

Or NIC only causes problems when the wireless card also makes a
wireless connection?

Well, NIC operation is not in a list that can cause an OS lockup.
Did you mean network access locked (stopped) - OS still works?

If not asked in a first post, then I was remiss. What did system
(event) logs report?

Apparently you suspect an NIC. It is an eMachine. Therefore
download that diagnostic from the NIC manufacturer. What does the NIC
diagnostic report with ethernet cable connected, with cable
disconnected, and in both locations? If the NIC is onboard, then
locate the NIC's manufacturer name and chip number. Then find that
diagnostic.

If the router did fail on its ethernet cable, then so did the
computer's NIC. Two extremely unlikely failures? Either both have
failed and must be replaced, or neither creates a computer freeze.

So what do system (event) logs report? Again, text is important.
But numbers are essential. Those error messages without numbers may
be useless. And the most important messages are often only ones that
mean zero to you.

Computer has classic symptoms of a defective supply system. Yes, a
system which is more than a supply. Supply may be only just starting
to cause computer failures, and identified using a multimeter with
computer under full load. If problem is traceable to the NIC, then
NIC diagnostic will confirm that (with and without cable connected) or
provide information that identified what makes the NIC look defective.
 
W

westom

First, nobody need be an EE. This is about simple diagnostic
procedures. And anything that might be better solved by an EE - well,
that is what you have in this newsgroup if you provided detailed
information - especially numbers. And for free. Third, that analog
meter belongs in the trash. Even better technology is sold in K-mart
for about the price of a hammer. An analog meter is no longer
sufficient for required numbers. Even auto mechanics now routinely
use 3.5 digit multimeter - they are that ubiquitous.

To reply means making assumptions. For example, does not matter
whether you brought an ethernet cable. To provide useful information,
defined is what happens when NIC is connected to router or modem. And
then what happens when only cable is removed. And again, but without
the NIC card. An existing cable in their house means your missing
cable is irrelevant. And then repeate same tests when in your home.
Also confusing - is the Wifi and NIC the same PCI card? Not stated
when it must be. Vague posting force too many assumptions.

For example, one type failure means the first computer connects to
the router without failure. That same defective modem connected to
the second computer - with same defect in its NIC - means second
computer fails. Then both computers work just fine at your place. To
have one computer fail means both defective must exist in the
configuration. This posted previously. And with what was posted,
nothing useful disputes whether this failure example exists.

Also confusing - the second computer fails when only connected via
Wifi? That also is not specifically states leaving me to assume both
a yes and no answer.

Why do I need answers that detailed and specific? Information this
vague routinely leads to too many assumptions and completely
irrelevant conclusions. You must literal state what connects to what
and then what happens - good or failed - to obtain a useful reply.
And nobody needs even technician training to obtain a solution here.

Currently there is no information sufficient to replace anything.
And not because that information requires technical abilities. What
you did and did not do is too vague. And don't replace anything until
we have a suspect.

Using that third paragraph as an example, replacing the router would
make it work even though the computer is still defective. Or maybe
not because, well many posts do not differentiate between test using
Wifi, or test using an ethernet cable, or a test with NIC removed.

Now assuming a completely different interpretation from your post -
well what is not booting? Does the computer actually boot but lock up
long after booting - and you called that no boot? IOW once you see
the Windows logo, then the computer has booted just fine - even if the
computer fails later. IOW exactly where does the computer stop?
Another example of why a useful reply is subverted by too little
information. Do not assume you know when booting ends and when
Windows configures itself. Currently, you have repeatedly posted that
the Windows logo never appears when the NIC is installed - which makes
no sense considering other observations. So maybe the meter was never
needed because the computer was booting every time? Again,
information posted is woefully too vague to obtain useful replies.

Even that 'analog meter' makes no sense because such meters were
obsoleted so many times as to be almost useless for most technologies
- even beyond computers. But then, the request for voltage numbers
may be completely unnecessary. You posted 'no booting' when it booted
every time? Just another still unanswered question because posts have
been too vague; contained too many contradictions.

Every test must be detailed as to even what was enabled and what was
connected to what. Nothing posted required even electrical technician
knowledge. Anything you feel is unimportant is usually the most
important request. IOW every question requires an answer – especially
those that make no sense to you. Your posts contain too many
contradictions and include too many useless observations (as
deomonstrated by the above third paragraph example).
 
M

M Skabialka

The tech brought an analog multimeter i.e. it has a moving needle pointing
to numbers. I didn't know what he was bringing. He won't be back and I am
not comfortable playing with electricity. I am a programmer, I fix
computers for friends because it's fairly easy to solve MOST problems.

I didn't bring a LONG ethernet cable - these computers are in different
parts of the house so I didn't try connecting the modem to the problem
computer. They only have short cables.

The computer has an onboard network cabled NIC, AND a PCI wireless NIC. It
boots to the windows logo and freezes before the user logon screen when the
PCI wifi card is installed. It boots properly when the card is removed. At
my house it boots properly with the wifi card installed.

Nothing is connected to the router. The owner suspected a while ago it was
causing slowness and disconnected the network cable, but did not shut it
off.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top