Vista I will not be buying

[kurttrail]

What pressure? I'm askig this as a curiousity - not an argument. I
really want to know.





Yes - but everything you said still points to "in the end - the OEM
could take the extra effort needed (if any) to provide a CD with the
product if they so desired."

What Microsoft "pressures" the OEMs to do really isn't relevant. Get
an OEM CD - copy it hundreds/thousands/more times onto cheap blank
CDs (or use the OEM CD Microsoft can provide) and when selling to
your customers - even if your install is a little different in terms
of overlaying software - provide the OEM Windows XP CD along with the
sale of the computer - they paid for that after all. You could still
make the system recoverable/installed by you in whatever way is most
cost effective - and in the end when the customer comes here asking
about a reinstall because Microsoft Windows XP is messed up because
of some Microsoft patch that didn't agree with software/hardware on
their system - at least they will not get the response of, "Well, it
looks like your OEM did not provide a true Windows installation CD.."
and the OEM will likely keep a customer and get recommendations
because they did the extra nickels worth of effort.
The whole "Microsoft Pressures" thing is a joke in my opinion. Your
parents likely "pressured" you into not doing a lot of things - some
of which you did despite the pressure. Friends, family, etc - all
day long doing the same thing. There's no "pressure" for the OEM
System Builder NOT to provide the nickel CD.. By that I mean even if
some wording exists that makes it seem like they SHOULD NOT do that -
Microsoft isn't in the room with them when they sell the computer -
isn't in the room with them when they take the troubleshooting call -
isn't in the room with them when their customer comes back asking for
a CD to reinstall Windows. Business Sense says to give the nickel CD
out to customers - even if it is just "another" way to install
Windows XP over the normal weak-effort hard drive image method
normally given to a customer to restore to the "purchased" state.
It's still a decision - pressure or not. Don't smoke, don't drink,
wear your seatbelt, etc.. It's a choice the business person in the
end has to make. They can do whatever they choose. When I sold
computer system I always gave the customer three choices when it came
to the OS and recovery: OEM CDs (less expensive), Retail CDs or they
could go buy their own OS and do the installation themselves. I
never lost a single customer from that - they usually appreciated the
choices.
Is Microsoft to blame because people submit to any pressure? Just
because the mountain is there doesn't mean you HAVE to climb it. Just
because the alcohol is sold doesn't mean you have to drink it. Just
because the cigar was offered to you doesn't mean you have to
smoke it.
Sure - I will go as far as to say that *if* there is some wording
somewhere that URGES OEM System Builders NOT to provide restoration
CDs with their systems (that they sell) - then Microsoft shares the
blame. *If* there is wording somewhere that does more than URGES
such a thing, then Microsoft can have all the blame. Just like other
advertisers and such sell products - they are "somewhat" to blame for
the consumption of those products.. But if there is no "Do it this
way or you cannot use/sell the product" - in the end - the PEOPLE
SELLING the system who chose to do it one way or the other are the
ones to blame on how their system was sold and the methods they chose
to put in place.
And any argument that the hard drive image method is easier/cheaper..
hah - that's funny. I have a blind aunt who can copy CDs.
(Didn't say you said it - but just thought of counterpoints..)

I heard it from people I trust that have said they've been pressured.
Like I said you can believe whatever you want. The general perception
is that MS is at fault.

And ALL MS needs to do is make it an OEM condition to provide real
Install CDs to all OEM customers, if they wanted to prove that they
really want all of the OEM OS customers to get the 5 cent Install CD.
Why do you think MS doesn't?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Peter A. Stavrakoglou]

I heard it from people I trust that have said they've been pressured. Like
I said you can believe whatever you want. The general perception is that
MS is at fault.

And ALL MS needs to do is make it an OEM condition to provide real Install
CDs to all OEM customers, if they wanted to prove that they really want
all of the OEM OS customers to get the 5 cent Install CD. Why do you think
MS doesn't?

Without a link to reputable source this cannot be trusted.

 

[kurttrail]

Without a link to reputable source this cannot be trusted.

Don't.

But do answer the question, if not publicly, for yourself. Why do you
think MS doesn't make OEMs to agree to provide true install CDs? MS
already gets the to agree to provide a recovery solution of some kind,
and 5 cent CDs ain't gonna break MS or the OEM.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Shenan Stanley]

But do answer the question, if not publicly, for yourself. Why do you
think MS doesn't make OEMs to agree to provide true install CDs? MS
already gets the to agree to provide a recovery solution of some kind,
and 5 cent CDs ain't gonna break MS or the OEM.

If they DID require it - would you complain (if it was the norm and this
conversation never existed) the opposite - that Microsoft should not push
the little OEM business-person into doing something they may not want to do?

Right now you are complaining because they left the decision up to the OEM
System Builder.
No matter the pressure - the power still lies there - the OEM System
Builder.
Now you want Microsoft to play more of a role in an individual
business-person's life and make them (per agreement) do something they may
otherwise choose not to?

To me it's like Motorcycle helmet laws..
Common sense says your head is softer than the pavement - especially at
speed.
Some places have made it mandatory that helemts be worn when riding
motorcycles - others have not.
I say let the rider decide.. If they are foolish enough not to wear a helmet
and die - so be it.

Business sense says you should provide as much customer service as possible
(within reason and cost) to keep that customer and get more business from
them and word-of-mouth. If you are too stingy to part with the nickel -
then perhaps your business will die and the balance continue.

I just don't see the point in forcing people to do something that is common
or business sense. Weed out the herd naturally. It's worked all this time.

 

[kurttrail]

If they DID require it - would you complain (if it was the norm and
this conversation never existed) the opposite - that Microsoft should
not push the little OEM business-person into doing something they may
not want to do?

Nope. If you know anything about me, you'd know I'm for what is best
for the individual consumer, and that would be getting the full install
CD.

Right now you are complaining because they left the decision up to
the OEM System Builder.

Again, I don't believe they really are. I believe the people that have
told me that they have been pressured by MS reps.

No matter the pressure - the power still lies there - the OEM System
Builder.

Even Dell has stopped supplying Install CD on many of its models.

Now you want Microsoft to play more of a role in an individual
business-person's life and make them (per agreement) do something
they may otherwise choose not to?

To me it's like Motorcycle helmet laws..
Common sense says your head is softer than the pavement - especially
at speed.
Some places have made it mandatory that helemts be worn when riding
motorcycles - others have not.
I say let the rider decide.. If they are foolish enough not to wear a
helmet and die - so be it.

Business sense says you should provide as much customer service as
possible (within reason and cost) to keep that customer and get more
business from them and word-of-mouth. If you are too stingy to part
with the nickel - then perhaps your business will die and the balance
continue.
I just don't see the point in forcing people to do something that is
common or business sense. Weed out the herd naturally. It's worked
all this time.

I'm really not gonna spend time arguing about this. You can believe
whatever you want. Most people that don't get true install CD already
blame MS for it, as you can see from those that complain about it in
this group.

I have good reason to believe that MS reps do apply pressure on OEMs not
to supply Install CDs. Can I prove it? Nope, but I trust my sources.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I have good reason to believe that MS reps do apply pressure on OEMs
not to supply Install CDs. Can I prove it? Nope, but I trust my
sources.

That's fine - but I do not see it from my OEM System Builder sources - they
mostly provide OEM install CDs with their systems.

As for Dell, although most non-business Dells do not come with CDs now
without special ordering - the ability for the consumer to spend the nickel
(following the directions on the huge poster that comes in the box
explaining setup) and make their own actual Windows XP Installation CD is
available on all the models I have seen come through.

As for me believing whatever I want - that's a given - I'm not even trying
to change your mind..

I am saying that if all it that is going on is *pressure* and they are
buckling - the problem is the OEM System Builders not having any saq.

 

[Uncle Joe]

I won't be buying Vista anytime soon because
first I want and enjoy the Classic look and feel.
Want a Classic search, and a classic Microsoft
Explorer display in file name sequence. I can find
things faster in Classic mode.

If I wanted a gee-whiz GUI, I'd buy a Mac with
the latest OS. Don't need 3D glowing icons.

Secondly, my apps work fine. Really don't want
to buy new Vista-oriented software release
licenses. It makes no sense. Am not against
progress but where's the payback for me?

 

[David Schwartz]

Secondly, my apps work fine. Really don't want
to buy new Vista-oriented software release
licenses. It makes no sense. Am not against
progress but where's the payback for me?

There's no obvious payback now, but in a year or so, it could become
more obvious. Support for newer hardware (much larger memory configurations,
for example) and support for more advanced applications. Two years from now,
you may find that "high power" applications are able to do a lot more on
Vista than they can on XP.

But until then, the only reason would be if you just can't live without
the latest gee-whiz features.

DS

 

[kurttrail]

There's no obvious payback now, but in a year or so, it could
become more obvious. Support for newer hardware (much larger memory
configurations, for example) and support for more advanced
applications. Two years from now, you may find that "high power"
applications are able to do a lot more on Vista than they can on XP.

But until then, the only reason would be if you just can't live
without the latest gee-whiz features.

DS

Add two more years to your estimations, and you may be close, and by
that time MS will be close to releasing its next OS.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[David Schwartz]

Add two more years to your estimations, and you may be close, and by that
time MS will be close to releasing its next OS.

You are probably right on both counts.

DS

 

[Uncle Joe]

"And I really do not care about piracy that may or may not be going on in
China or God-only-knows-where."

Economics 404: Bill Gates and Microsoft compensates for the fact that 250
million Chinese XP users use pirated software by overcharging us to make up
for their lost foreign revenue. It does affect you.

"Has the whole world gone mad??"

Absolutely. (Smile.)

 

[Black Baptist]

Uncle Joe rambled on in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

I won't be buying Vista anytime soon because
first I want and enjoy the Classic look and feel.
Want a Classic search, and a classic Microsoft
Explorer display in file name sequence. I can find
things faster in Classic mode.

If I wanted a gee-whiz GUI, I'd buy a Mac with
the latest OS. Don't need 3D glowing icons.

Secondly, my apps work fine. Really don't want
to buy new Vista-oriented software release
licenses. It makes no sense. Am not against
progress but where's the payback for me?

I won't be buying it either but I'll probably use it.

 

[Uncle Joe]

Well, unlike you, Black Baptist, if I did decide
to go the Vista route, I'd buy the software.

"Rambling" is in the eye of the beholder. Just
stated my views on a Vista relase sans Classic
Views.

 

[Plato]

Well, unlike you, Black Baptist, if I did decide
to go the Vista route, I'd buy the software.

Next time remove the troll infected group from your reply.

 

[Uncle Joe]

What does that mean, Plato? What troll infected group?
I just responded to Black Baptist. Is he known to be a troll?

 

[Black Baptist]

Uncle Joe rambled on in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

What does that mean, Plato? What troll infected group?
I just responded to Black Baptist. Is he known to be a troll?

I doubt it since this is maybe my 2nd or 3rd post to this group in as many
yrs.

 

[Tony]

Me thinks Plato is the troll.

Uncle Joe rambled on in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

I doubt it since this is maybe my 2nd or 3rd post to this group in as many
yrs.

 

[GregRo]

Uncle Joe rambled on in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

I doubt it since this is maybe my 2nd or 3rd post to this group in as many
yrs.

ugh,
This is actual part of a previous thread started by me-I am no troll.
I was just venting out of what Microsoft plans to do and Why I don't
plan to by vista.

They plan to put a hidden folder only accessible by Microsoft, third
parties and windows media player. The user won't even know it is
there until a virus can not be cleaned out. This is because of the
drm.

I am surprised Sony is not suing Microsoft but that another subject.

Greg Ro

 

[Plato]

What does that mean, Plato? What troll infected group?
I just responded to Black Baptist. Is he known to be a troll?

alt.os.windows-xp is a troll infected group. Nothing wrong in posting
there individually if you want, as there are still some legit people
left. But just delete that group from any repsonse you send from here,
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general. Most all of the trolls there are
banned from this group, so the only way they can pollute this group is
if you crosspost/respond and include that group in your response.

Sort of like trying to stop the new chicken disease from spreading

Good luck. Thanks for writing back.

 

[Uncle Joe]

Uncle Joe rambled on in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

Well, Black Bastard (I mean Black Baptist) guess you'll need to cut me
some slack because this white Baptist is a rambling man. Crawl back
into your slimy cave. Thank you.