MUST I use TWO Memory Sticks?


C

casey.o

This computer (Compaq 5400US) came with two 128M Ram sticks, for a total
of 256m. The computer maximum allowed RAM is 512M. I want to upgrade
to that maximum. There are only 2 slots. I can install TWO 256m
sticks. But can I install just ONE 512m stick?

Finding memory for this machine is a challenge in itself. It needs
168pin - Low density - PC133 SDRAM. Trying to locate using charts
provided by the memory companies all show ONLY up to 256m, and they want
$20 or more per stick. I'm planning to build a more powerful computer,
but this old relic runs, and seems to work well. So, for now it will
do.

But I'm not sticking $40 or more into it. However, I have found on ebay
some used RAM, buy it now, Two 512m sticks of 168pin - Low density -
PC133 SDRAM, for about $10 incl. shipping. Although I can only use one
of them, the price is right, and I'll have a spare.

But I'm not 100% sure if I can use just one 512m sticks, or MUST I use
TWO 256m sticks?
 
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P

Paul

This computer (Compaq 5400US) came with two 128M Ram sticks, for a total
of 256m. The computer maximum allowed RAM is 512M. I want to upgrade
to that maximum. There are only 2 slots. I can install TWO 256m
sticks. But can I install just ONE 512m stick?

Finding memory for this machine is a challenge in itself. It needs
168pin - Low density - PC133 SDRAM. Trying to locate using charts
provided by the memory companies all show ONLY up to 256m, and they want
$20 or more per stick. I'm planning to build a more powerful computer,
but this old relic runs, and seems to work well. So, for now it will
do.

But I'm not sticking $40 or more into it. However, I have found on ebay
some used RAM, buy it now, Two 512m sticks of 168pin - Low density -
PC133 SDRAM, for about $10 incl. shipping. Although I can only use one
of them, the price is right, and I'll have a spare.

But I'm not 100% sure if I can use just one 512m sticks, or MUST I use
TWO 256m sticks?

I answered your question in a previous posting.

815E chipset (which is an 815 with an ICH2 Southbridge)
has an artificial limitation of 512MB. Intel did that for
market differentiation, so the 815 was intended for "value"
platforms. This is different than VIA Technology of the day,
who did not mind it if a value computer supported 1.5GB total.

Suggested RAM (select speed as per what worked before)

512MB module - 16 chips (ones with 8 chips, might not exist)
256MB module - 8 chips or 16 chips total

Due to the 512MB "total" limit of 815 Northbridge, you can use

1x512MB (16 chips on the DIMM) - contents of other slot ignored

or you can use

2x256MB (8 chip or 16 chip PC133 should be OK per DIMM)

With the 512MB DIMM, you'd be leaving a slot blank.

(PDF page 11)
http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/29835102.pdf

Integrated SDRAM Controller

* 32 MB to 512 MB using 16-Mb/64-Mb/128-Mb/256-Mb technology

Page 140 shows usage of 32Mx8 chips is supported (which is a 256-Mb chip).
Sixteen chips at 32Mx8 is a 512MB DIMM. Which is the largest supported.

The only thing "anomalous" about that chipset, is the
invention of an artificial limit. It's a four bank (two slot)
design, and so it should have supported a grand total of
1024MB as 2x512MB DIMMs. But due to the Northbridge capping
memory decodes at 512MB, then under certain conditions (1x512MB),
the other slot becomes effectively useless. If you stuck
512MB + 128MB in the board, it still reports 512MB in the BIOS.
It's like the other stick isn't even there.

Paul
 
M

micky

This computer (Compaq 5400US) came with two 128M Ram sticks, for a total
of 256m. The computer maximum allowed RAM is 512M. I want to upgrade
to that maximum. There are only 2 slots. I can install TWO 256m
sticks. But can I install just ONE 512m stick?

It hasn't always been true that one always needs two matching sticks,
but I don't know details.

I hesitate to write what I've written below. Maybe it should just be
considered wild-eyed imagination and not a suggestion that it applies
here. When ti did apply, it was a total memory of 1.5 gig instead of
the suposed maximum of 1. a 50% increase. For you it would be 1 gig
instead of 512, a 100% increase, or possibly a 50% increase and a 50%
failure to increase.
Finding memory for this machine is a challenge in itself. It needs
168pin - Low density - PC133 SDRAM. Trying to locate using charts
provided by the memory companies all show ONLY up to 256m, and they want
$20 or more per stick. I'm planning to build a more powerful computer,
but this old relic runs, and seems to work well. So, for now it will
do.

But I'm not sticking $40 or more into it. However, I have found on ebay
some used RAM, buy it now, Two 512m sticks of 168pin - Low density -
PC133 SDRAM, for about $10 incl. shipping. Although I can only use one
of them,

Is it absolutely for sure that you can only use one of them? In the
Dell newsgroup, I posted about buying a Dell Dimension 4400 that came
with 1.5 gigs of memory, in two slots. The Dell maven looked it up and
the computer manual said it could only take two 512 sticks. But the
previous owner put in one 512 and one 1gig. It reports that it has 1.5
gigs, but it's only been running for a week and the woman using it
doesn't know much, so it's not known if it is actually making use of the
1.5 gigs.

However the dell maven said it's better to look at the specs for the
CPU, I think it was, than for the computer, because the computer people
don't always know, especially when something, the chip, has been
improved.

So, unless someone says it will damage something, try putting in both.
the price is right, and I'll have a spare.

But I'm not 100% sure if I can use just one 512m sticks, or MUST I use
TWO 256m sticks?

Now that I don't know. I would be in the same quandary you are in.
 
G

Good Guy

This computer (Compaq 5400US) came with two 128M Ram sticks, for a total
of 256m. The computer maximum allowed RAM is 512M. I want to upgrade
to that maximum. There are only 2 slots. I can install TWO 256m
sticks. But can I install just ONE 512m stick?

Finding memory for this machine is a challenge in itself. It needs
168pin - Low density - PC133 SDRAM. Trying to locate using charts
provided by the memory companies all show ONLY up to 256m, and they want
$20 or more per stick. I'm planning to build a more powerful computer,
but this old relic runs, and seems to work well. So, for now it will
do.

But I'm not sticking $40 or more into it. However, I have found on ebay
some used RAM, buy it now, Two 512m sticks of 168pin - Low density -
PC133 SDRAM, for about $10 incl. shipping. Although I can only use one
of them, the price is right, and I'll have a spare.

But I'm not 100% sure if I can use just one 512m sticks, or MUST I use
TWO 256m sticks?

You should scrap this machine and buy a new one. This machine can't run
amy modern Applications and if the machine is for some serious work then
it is time to get a new one.

All the major brands have good deals on machines with minimum 4GB RAM
and Windows 8/8.1 preloaded. Go an get it and you will be amazed at the
efficiency of these new machines in terms of speed and energy
consumption. I~t will pay itself off in two years time and you will
become employable with latest knowledge of Windows :).
 
B

BillW50

You should scrap this machine and buy a new one. This machine can't run
amy modern Applications and if the machine is for some serious work then
it is time to get a new one.

All the major brands have good deals on machines with minimum 4GB RAM
and Windows 8/8.1 preloaded. Go an get it and you will be amazed at the
efficiency of these new machines in terms of speed and energy
consumption. I~t will pay itself off in two years time and you will
become employable with latest knowledge of Windows :).

Really? Personally I like my older machines much better. The ones from
the 2006/7 era with dual cores are my favorites. They can run XP, Vista,
7, and 8 just fine. Newer machines can't run all of those versions. Plus
it is harder and harder to get 32 bit Windows in newer machines. They
all seem to want to push the 64 bit versions. Those 64 bit versions are
worthless to me, since all of my software is either 16 or 32 bit.

Heck this machine is less than 2 years old and I rather use my older
machines myself. These newer machines can't even play and record video
as well as my XP machines can. And quite frankly, these newer Windows
versions are not very special either. As I could be running XP just as
well and in some cases better off. :)
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "Bill in Co said:
Well, he could probably get by ok with 512MB if he's using XP (assuming his CPU speed is
at least halfway decent). I hesitate to think what running XP on 256MB would be like.
:)

A system with a Max RAM 512MB is just a boat anchor. It mights say it supports WinXP but
it was "really designed for" Win9x/ME, NT4 and Win2K.
 
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B

BillW50

In David H. Lipman typed:
A system with a Max RAM 512MB is just a boat anchor. It mights say
it supports WinXP but it was "really designed for" Win9x/ME, NT4 and
Win2K.

I wouldn't go that far. Sure I find XP with 1GB runs really well for
itself. And sure XP with 512MB will do some amount of noticeable
swapping. But I won't call it a boat anchor. What did the OP say
something like 20 bucks to beef it up with two 256MB used RAM cards? To
me that is well worth it if it means saving hundreds of dollars on
something newer.

Giving some more thought, a computer that can handle 512MB of RAM I
would guess would be a Celeron 400MHz or better. That would be plenty
for XP. Although a computer of that vintage could have as little as a
6GB hard drive. That would be very tight for XP SP2. Something like 30
or 60GB would be much better. So that might add some extra expense. But
I could be satisfied with such a system for the most part. ;-)
 
C

casey.o

I wouldn't go that far. Sure I find XP with 1GB runs really well for
itself. And sure XP with 512MB will do some amount of noticeable
swapping. But I won't call it a boat anchor. What did the OP say
something like 20 bucks to beef it up with two 256MB used RAM cards? To
me that is well worth it if it means saving hundreds of dollars on
something newer.

Giving some more thought, a computer that can handle 512MB of RAM I
would guess would be a Celeron 400MHz or better. That would be plenty
for XP. Although a computer of that vintage could have as little as a
6GB hard drive. That would be very tight for XP SP2. Something like 30
or 60GB would be much better. So that might add some extra expense. But
I could be satisfied with such a system for the most part. ;-)

Its a 1200mhz CPU. Compaq 5400us presario
It came with XP Home installerd. The label with the XP registration
number is on the case.
I ordered the two 512m ram sticks for $10. I'll use the extra one for
another computer. $5 is worth the upgrade cost. Plus I ordered a used
80g hard drive for $18.00. So for $23 total I got a computer newer and
faster than my Win98 one. The only other part I had t oinstall was
another CD drive, which I took out of another dead computer.

I do have a much faster machine to build up next. It's a 2ghz P4. It
was in a flood, so all the drives are shot, but the mainboard seems to
work. When I got it, it was all covered with mud. I hosed it really
well, and let it sit in the sun for a few weeks. I was rather surprised
it worked at all. The bios works fien, but the HD is shot, as well as
the CD drive. There was no floppy drive in it, but I'll put one. I
cant have a computer without a floppy drive. It's needed to boot them
from Dos to get em' going. That computer has 4gigs of ram in it.
Just for grins, i ripped the CD drive apart, and hosed all the mud out
of it yesterday. After it drys for a week, I'll give it a try..... I
have my doubts, but it dont hurt to try....
 
C

casey.o

You should scrap this machine and buy a new one. This machine can't run
amy modern Applications and if the machine is for some serious work then
it is time to get a new one.
As soon as I receive your check in the mail, I'll rush out to buy a new
one..... Let me know when you send it!

But if it comes with Vista or Win 7 or 8, I'd have to format the HD to
install XP. I have no use for any MS OS newer than XP.

Then again, if I was to buy a new computer, I'd likely buy a Macintosh.
I'm tired of trying to keep up with MS upgrades, and the OSs they quit
supporting.
 
C

casey.o

Really? Personally I like my older machines much better. The ones from
the 2006/7 era with dual cores are my favorites. They can run XP, Vista,
7, and 8 just fine. Newer machines can't run all of those versions. Plus
it is harder and harder to get 32 bit Windows in newer machines. They
all seem to want to push the 64 bit versions. Those 64 bit versions are
worthless to me, since all of my software is either 16 or 32 bit.

Heck this machine is less than 2 years old and I rather use my older
machines myself. These newer machines can't even play and record video
as well as my XP machines can. And quite frankly, these newer Windows
versions are not very special either. As I could be running XP just as
well and in some cases better off. :)

I run almost ALL older software. Some is still Dos or Win3.x based,
most is for Win9x. I only had one dos prograsm thast refused to work in
Win2000, but it does work in XP.....

I own a computer to USE IT, not to keep upgrading it, and have to keep
relearning the software. I still prefer my old Win98 setup, and use
that most of the time. It does everything I need, except for web
browsing. There are no browsers that work right in 98 anymore. I blame
that HTML5 and the overuse of scripts for that problem....
 
C

casey.o

I answered your question in a previous posting.

815E chipset (which is an 815 with an ICH2 Southbridge)
has an artificial limitation of 512MB. Intel did that for
market differentiation, so the 815 was intended for "value"
platforms. This is different than VIA Technology of the day,
who did not mind it if a value computer supported 1.5GB total.

Thanks Paul. I must have missed this in another post. I did check out
what you suggested and think I haev it under control now (I hope).

Thanks 4 your help!
 
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J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

BillW50 <[email protected]> said:
In David H. Lipman typed:

Painful (and that's SP2). I watched my neighbour use it, and it spent so
much time swapping ...
I wouldn't go that far. Sure I find XP with 1GB runs really well for
itself. And sure XP with 512MB will do some amount of noticeable
swapping. But I won't call it a boat anchor. What did the OP say

This (large netbook, SP3) came with 1G, and I rarely found myself using
more than about 7xxM, so it was well over a year before I got round to
fitting (changing it to - one stick only) the 2G I'd bought at the time
(I thought XP would be happier in 2G). Of course, I detected very little
difference. Even now, I only just top the 1G - 1.03 at the moment - and
that's because I tend to leave lots of tabs open (currently 49 or 50) in
Firefox.

The old 256M machine (Dell Optiplex GX1), which my neighbour gave me
when I finally persuaded her to get something newer, is now to my
surprise running quite sweetly - with SP3 - with me having put the RAM
up to 640 (according to Dell it can't use bigger than 256M sticks; I
bought a couple for 8.99 pounds).
something like 20 bucks to beef it up with two 256MB used RAM cards? To
me that is well worth it if it means saving hundreds of dollars on
something newer.

Yes, I'd agree, though it's getting marginal; someone at work's selling
a laptop with 2G/40G/dual core for 50 pounds. Apart from the drive size,
it's a good machine!
Giving some more thought, a computer that can handle 512MB of RAM I
would guess would be a Celeron 400MHz or better. That would be plenty
for XP. Although a computer of that vintage could have as little as a
6GB hard drive. That would be very tight for XP SP2. Something like 30
or 60GB would be much better. So that might add some extra expense. But
I could be satisfied with such a system for the most part. ;-)
This old Dell is indeed a 400 MHz, and a 6G drive! I _am_ thinking of
upping the drive (with one I have - not buying one), though at the
moment I'm finding it interesting to see how well it works with just the
6G. (I'd always thought of an XP system as needing at least 30-40G for
just the OS and software; I partitioned this machine to have 30G for C
and keep all my data on D. FWIW, after several years of use, I've used
23G, though the last 2+ G are WSUSOffline's downloads from the last week
or so). The old Dell doesn't seem to suffer from only having the 400 MHz
processor; granted, I haven't tried playing videos on it yet.
 
P

Paul

CRNG said:
On Thu, 06 Mar 2014 18:23:47 -0600, (e-mail address removed) wrote in


That's what several people I know have done. They're happy with the
change.

Macintoshes use an "upgrade treadmill" as well.

Applications you run on them, only run on a limited
set of OS versions. Try and get Wireshark running
on your Mac, and figure out which version you should
download from the site, to run with your Mac.
(The Wireshark developers, don't tell you, requiring
a "test it and see" approach.)

A Mac can be just as much of a pain in the ass, as
any other computing box. It was a better platform
in years past, when they were the underdog, and were
doing stuff to keep people happy.

What's important for any computing platform, is whether
there are good "main" web sites, with immediate feedback
on problems. Sites like macintouch.com or xlr8yourmac.ocm
are example. These provide unbiased articles about
bloopers in your favorite OS, and how to fix them.
If you relied on Apple press releases or Apple forum
threads, you would be surely stuck. Before leaping on
a platform, see how users manage it for themselves,
and how much work it takes.

Paul (who owns three Macs, and the
G4 will be the last one I buy)
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

BillW50 <[email protected]> said:
In J. P. Gilliver (John) typed:

What kind of netbook is that John?
Samsung NC20. I was given a long-service award for 25 years with the
company, and decided I'd bite the bullet and go XP (I was still on 98SE,
which I'd customised with lite, then), and also go portable; I took my
time deciding (not least because the award was in the form of a sort of
prepaid credit card which could only be used at a limited number of
places). As it was approaching its expiry a year later, I'd more or less
decided on the NC10, the ten inch model, which had the resolution I
wanted; when I got to Selfridges (one of the few places I could use the
card), they also had the NC20, which is the nearly 12" one, so (after a
couple of hours' thinking) I went for that. I'm glad I did, as the keys
are almost full size, which on the 10" netbooks they aren't.

On the whole, I've been very happy with it, and use it as my main PC,
for several hours most evenings. I thought I'd miss having an optical
drive (that seems to be what makes the difference between a netbook [and
now an "ultrabook"] and a laptop), so got an external one, but to be
honest I hardly ever use it: everything's online these days. The only
niggles I can think of: using the provided self-update eventually loaded
a video driver which was susceptible to making the whole thing freeze
(the excellent folk at sammynetbook showed which driver version to
revert to and it's been fine now for years): and, when I first started
using it, it managed Skype and YouTube perfectly well, but over the
years less so (more jerky - though the videos are fine if downloaded and
then played locally), which I think is something _I've_ done rather than
changes in S & Y, since S even struggles on audio-only. (In an odd way -
it's fine on first connection, then deteriorates over the course of a
few minutes.) But I find the NC20 an excellent XP machine - as do other
users, judging by what (last time I looked, I haven't recently) it goes
for on ebay (it's no longer available new).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

`A device called a transistor, which has several applications in radio where a
vacuum tube ordinarily is employed, was demonstrated yesterday.' - small
article
on an inside page of The New York Times, December 1947 (Computing 1999-12-16)
 
M

micky

I do have a much faster machine to build up next. It's a 2ghz P4. It
was in a flood, so all the drives are shot, but the mainboard seems to
work. When I got it, it was all covered with mud. I hosed it really
well, and let it sit in the sun for a few weeks. I was rather surprised

Where do you have sun for weeks?
it worked at all. The bios works fien, but the HD is shot, as well as

No experience but still sutprised the HD is shot. They seem like they
are sealed, unless the computer was on when it was flooded?

Did the flood make the news?
the CD drive. There was no floppy drive in it, but I'll put one. I
cant have a computer without a floppy drive. It's needed to boot them

So far I feel the same way.
 
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P

Paul

micky said:
No experience but still sutprised the HD is shot. They seem like they
are sealed, unless the computer was on when it was flooded?

The drive isn't sealed. It has a breather hole.
Conventional drives equalize to atmospheric pressure.
Say you pack a laptop in the car and take a trip.
If you drive your car to 10,000 feet above sea level,
the laptop hard drive "exhales" through the breather hole.
If you drive back down to sea level again, the
drive "inhales" through the breather hole.

The breather hole has a hepafilter on the other side
of the cover. That is supposed to reduce particulate
that could get through. It will not stop certain smaller
molecules, so it is possible something "corrosive" could
cross the barrier.

In addition, if you look at some of the older drives, they
have multiple silver sticks, which cover holes (like, the
servo write access port). If water or chemicals attack the
stickers, the stickers could come loose.

There is a brand new drive, which is completely sealed.
It is the first of its kind. It will start shipping in
the summer. That's the Hitachi 6TB "Helium" drive, where
the HDA is filled with helium gas. The HDA must be sealed,
to keep that gas in. Whereas conventional drives are just
filled with breathable air. That's the drive you want to buy,
if living in a flood zone :) At a price of perhaps $1400
each, I don't think they plan on selling very many.

Paul
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
There is a brand new drive, which is completely sealed.
It is the first of its kind. It will start shipping in
the summer. That's the Hitachi 6TB "Helium" drive, where
the HDA is filled with helium gas. The HDA must be sealed,
to keep that gas in. Whereas conventional drives are just

So it will have a finite lifetime even if unused and sitting on a shelf:
Helium molecules are the smallest there is (smaller than hydrogen
molecules), and _very_ good at passing through things (they'll even pass
into solid platinum).
filled with breathable air. That's the drive you want to buy,
if living in a flood zone :) At a price of perhaps $1400

I thought at first you meant the sort that's filled with breathable air
so that you could breathe it if submerged (-:
each, I don't think they plan on selling very many.

Paul

Wouldn't ordinary dry nitrogen be better and cheaper?
 
P

Paul

J. P. Gilliver (John) said:
There is a brand new drive, which is completely sealed.
It is the first of its kind. It will start shipping in
the summer. That's the Hitachi 6TB "Helium" drive, where
the HDA is filled with helium gas. The HDA must be sealed,
to keep that gas in. Whereas conventional drives are just

So it will have a finite lifetime even if unused and sitting on a shelf:
Helium molecules are the smallest there is (smaller than hydrogen
molecules), and _very_ good at passing through things (they'll even pass
into solid platinum).[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought too. Hydrogen will also pass through
metals, but at a slightly elevated temperature.
I thought at first you meant the sort that's filled with breathable air
so that you could breathe it if submerged (-:

You'd be in serious trouble, if that's all the air you had
with you.
Wouldn't ordinary dry nitrogen be better and cheaper?

The thermal conductivity looks pretty good. I know about
the thermal conductivity, from a hint on a National Geographic
special involving deep diving submersibles. The claim there
was, the operator of the sub breathed a helium mixture,
and the operator also tended to freeze to death. So you have
to dress warm, if the walls of your sub are ice cold, and
the boat is filled with helium. (The viscosity listed
here isn't a factor.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium

Thermal conductivity 0.1513 W·m−1·K−1
Viscosity (1.013 bar and 0°C (32°F)) : 1.8695E-04 Poise

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen

Thermal conductivity 0.0258 W·m−1·K−1
Viscosity (1.013 bar and 0°C (32°F)) : 1.6629E-04 Poise

*******

Helium and hydrogen have another interesting property,
but unrelated to the hard drive application. When you
let Helium out of its compressed tank at room temperature,
the gas gets hotter.

"Thus, helium and hydrogen warm up when expanded at
constant enthalpy at typical room temperatures. On the
other hand nitrogen and oxygen, the two most abundant
gases in air, have inversion temperatures of 621K and 764K
respectively: these gases can be cooled from room
temperature by the Joule–Thomson effect.[1]"

I think it even raises the possibility of a leaking hydrogen
tank, igniting the gas. There's an analysis here of all the
myriad conditions under which it can happen. The pressure in the
tank has to be a little too high, for the heating gas
to self-ignite purely from the temperature. I've been burned
by hydrogen (and been close to a decent sized explosion) - it's
one of my favorite gases. I can't wait for hydrogen powered
vehicles to show up :)

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=51712

Hydrogen storage at one time, was proposed in tanks with
something like a zeolite filler, which limits the rate
that the gas can come flying out of the tank. Again, thanks
to the wonders of TV, we had an experiment years ago, where
a rifle is fired at a zeolite hydrogen tank, and the leaking
gas only creates a small flame (which helps prevent a
catastrophic explosion from the leaking gas collecting).
I don't know if they'll use zeolite tanks for cars in
the future, or they have something better by now.
(Mr.Google helped me find this.)

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/everydaylife/apr_zeolite.html

These things are great, when somebody else uses them :)

Paul
 
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M

micky

In message <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
There is a brand new drive, which is completely sealed.
It is the first of its kind. It will start shipping in
the summer. That's the Hitachi 6TB "Helium" drive, where
the HDA is filled with helium gas. The HDA must be sealed,
to keep that gas in. Whereas conventional drives are just

So it will have a finite lifetime even if unused and sitting on a shelf:
Helium molecules are the smallest there is (smaller than hydrogen
molecules), and _very_ good at passing through things (they'll even pass
into solid platinum).
filled with breathable air. That's the drive you want to buy,
if living in a flood zone :) At a price of perhaps $1400

I thought at first you meant the sort that's filled with breathable air
so that you could breathe it if submerged (-:

No, you want helium so you can use it as a floatation device.
 

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