Very odd problem, for savy pc owners only

[Destroy]

This is a copy and paste of an email I sent to ATI (which has gotten no
response so far, big surprise there), NOT!!

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? thanks
======================================================

Hi,
Last week or so I was having to turn the computer off then back on again
2 times for the machine to get into bios, post and boot. Now this
morning I go to turn my computer on and it beeps a cpu error everytime I
try to to turn it on. Can't get it to post no matter what I do.
Disconnected everything but vid and memory but still my computer just
sits there fans going, harddrives going(when connected) but no video, no
post and beep msg saying there is a cpu problem.

I'm posting this with my old 9800pro which I had to stick back in and
works fine so obviously there is no cpu problem. I can swap my X800XT
and 9800pro all day and 9800pro allows my machine to post and boot
properly with no problems while my X800XT hangs my system before bios.

I'm wondering if its a power supply problem? I have a decent 400watt PS
though. And I don't have another laying around to test with, arg.

Bios reads: 1.53,3.26,4.94,11.85,12.36,2.91,5.56 for the various voltages.
SandraSoft reads: 1.53,3.25,4.95,11.92,-12.53,-5.15,5.02,2.91 voltages.
(These are with my 9800pro however. Can't read my X800 voltages cause I
cant even get to bios.)

Well I went a bought a quality Antec power supply to try - still doesn't
work, can't post, same cpu beep code.

Put 9800pro back in and going to drop vid card off at friends house for
them to put in their system to test card.

Seems I may have a card gone bad but won't know for sure.
The odd thing is, my computer was working perfectly fine for a week
with my new X800XT. After a week my machine started acting odd: on cold
boot I would for some reason have to turn my machine on then off then on
again to get it to boot into bios and continue normally. If I didn't do
this my computer would sit there beeping the cpu error never getting
into bios.

Well just got a call from my friend who's testing out my X800XT for me
in his(2 month old) athlon64 3200+ rig and it booted and worked fine in
his computer. I'm having him do some a few cold boots before giving me
the card back. (It booted and worked fine each time.)

It's almost as though my computer slowly degraded over a week and a half
from perfect to funky cold booting error to can't boot at all. I changed
nothing on my system during this time besides perhaps a few demo or
program installs within winXP. I just don't get it.

Its just so odd that all works great with my 9800pro and I simply put in
the X800XT and blam, computer won't post.

Any suggestions would be helpful, thank you.
Btw, I consider myself VERY computer hardware and software savy so any
tech speak is fine.
Regards, Derek
========================================================

Edit: Since this email, I've borrowed my card to another different
friend to test the video card in his system (very new Prescott system)
and it works perfectly fine for him also.

I'm guessing I have a motherboard problem. It's as though some component
on my motherboard slowly burned up with the X800XT in my system and then
degraded far enough that it prevents my system from booting up. However,
at the same time something different about the 9800pro design doesn't
require as much 'draw' from this degraded MB component and allows my
system to work seemingly normally. This sound possible?


Albatron K8T800ProII, ADATA PC4000 1 gig, athlon64 3200+, nothing
overclocked

 

[Pseudo Namen]

Give make and model of your power supply? Just because it says 400watts,
doesn't mean that is what you are getting. I paid 78.00 for my 420watt
Enermax power suppy just a month ago from Newegg.com It works great, and
keeps my system cooler too.

 

[Destroy]

Antec SL400. I've tried 2 quality power supplies, doubt that's the problem.

 

[Pseudo Namen]

Ok. Just checking.

Now you need to try your x800XT on a friends computer, or your spare, etc..
If it doesn't work there, it is time for the good ole RMA.

 

[OldFartJAC]

What is the beep code it gives you on POST?

This is a copy and paste of an email I sent to ATI (which has gotten no
response so far, big surprise there), NOT!!

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? thanks
======================================================

Hi,
Last week or so I was having to turn the computer off then back on again
2 times for the machine to get into bios, post and boot. Now this
morning I go to turn my computer on and it beeps a cpu error everytime I
try to to turn it on. Can't get it to post no matter what I do.
Disconnected everything but vid and memory but still my computer just
sits there fans going, harddrives going(when connected) but no video, no
post and beep msg saying there is a cpu problem.

I'm posting this with my old 9800pro which I had to stick back in and
works fine so obviously there is no cpu problem. I can swap my X800XT
and 9800pro all day and 9800pro allows my machine to post and boot
properly with no problems while my X800XT hangs my system before bios.

I'm wondering if its a power supply problem? I have a decent 400watt PS
though. And I don't have another laying around to test with, arg.

Bios reads: 1.53,3.26,4.94,11.85,12.36,2.91,5.56 for the various voltages.
SandraSoft reads: 1.53,3.25,4.95,11.92,-12.53,-5.15,5.02,2.91 voltages.
(These are with my 9800pro however. Can't read my X800 voltages cause I
cant even get to bios.)

Well I went a bought a quality Antec power supply to try - still doesn't
work, can't post, same cpu beep code.

Put 9800pro back in and going to drop vid card off at friends house for
them to put in their system to test card.

Seems I may have a card gone bad but won't know for sure.
The odd thing is, my computer was working perfectly fine for a week
with my new X800XT. After a week my machine started acting odd: on cold
boot I would for some reason have to turn my machine on then off then on
again to get it to boot into bios and continue normally. If I didn't do
this my computer would sit there beeping the cpu error never getting
into bios.

Well just got a call from my friend who's testing out my X800XT for me
in his(2 month old) athlon64 3200+ rig and it booted and worked fine in
his computer. I'm having him do some a few cold boots before giving me
the card back. (It booted and worked fine each time.)

It's almost as though my computer slowly degraded over a week and a half
from perfect to funky cold booting error to can't boot at all. I changed
nothing on my system during this time besides perhaps a few demo or
program installs within winXP. I just don't get it.

Its just so odd that all works great with my 9800pro and I simply put in
the X800XT and blam, computer won't post.

Any suggestions would be helpful, thank you.
Btw, I consider myself VERY computer hardware and software savy so any
tech speak is fine.
Regards, Derek
========================================================

Edit: Since this email, I've borrowed my card to another different
friend to test the video card in his system (very new Prescott system)
and it works perfectly fine for him also.

I'm guessing I have a motherboard problem. It's as though some component
on my motherboard slowly burned up with the X800XT in my system and then
degraded far enough that it prevents my system from booting up. However,
at the same time something different about the 9800pro design doesn't
require as much 'draw' from this degraded MB component and allows my
system to work seemingly normally. This sound possible?


Albatron K8T800ProII, ADATA PC4000 1 gig, athlon64 3200+, nothing
overclocked

 

[Destroy]

No offense cause I know you're trying to help but did you read my post
at all? Both questions you ask I have pretty much answered in my
original post.

And if it does work?

 

[Pseudo Namen]

Sorry. I just skimmed your original post. (

No offense cause I know you're trying to help but did you read my post at
all? Both questions you ask I have pretty much answered in my original
post.

And if it does work?

 

[Pseudo Namen]

P.S. Have you tried using another power connector from your PSU, one not
daisey chained to a hard drive, or CD/DVD type drive?

 

[McGrandpa]

This is a copy and paste of an email I sent to ATI (which has gotten
no response so far, big surprise there), NOT!!

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? thanks
======================================================

Hi,
Last week or so I was having to turn the computer off then back on
again 2 times for the machine to get into bios, post and boot. Now
this
morning I go to turn my computer on and it beeps a cpu error
everytime I try to to turn it on. Can't get it to post no matter what
I do. Disconnected everything but vid and memory but still my
computer just sits there fans going, harddrives going(when connected)
but no video, no post and beep msg saying there is a cpu problem.

I'm posting this with my old 9800pro which I had to stick back in and
works fine so obviously there is no cpu problem. I can swap my X800XT
and 9800pro all day and 9800pro allows my machine to post and boot
properly with no problems while my X800XT hangs my system before bios.

I'm wondering if its a power supply problem? I have a decent 400watt
PS though. And I don't have another laying around to test with, arg.

Bios reads: 1.53,3.26,4.94,11.85,12.36,2.91,5.56 for the various
voltages. SandraSoft reads:
1.53,3.25,4.95,11.92,-12.53,-5.15,5.02,2.91 voltages. (These are with
my 9800pro however. Can't read my X800 voltages cause I cant even get
to bios.)

Well I went a bought a quality Antec power supply to try - still
doesn't work, can't post, same cpu beep code.

Put 9800pro back in and going to drop vid card off at friends house
for them to put in their system to test card.

Seems I may have a card gone bad but won't know for sure.
The odd thing is, my computer was working perfectly fine for a week
with my new X800XT. After a week my machine started acting odd: on
cold boot I would for some reason have to turn my machine on then off
then on again to get it to boot into bios and continue normally. If I
didn't do this my computer would sit there beeping the cpu error
never getting
into bios.

Well just got a call from my friend who's testing out my X800XT for me
in his(2 month old) athlon64 3200+ rig and it booted and worked fine
in his computer. I'm having him do some a few cold boots before
giving me the card back. (It booted and worked fine each time.)

It's almost as though my computer slowly degraded over a week and a
half from perfect to funky cold booting error to can't boot at all. I
changed nothing on my system during this time besides perhaps a few
demo or program installs within winXP. I just don't get it.

Its just so odd that all works great with my 9800pro and I simply put
in the X800XT and blam, computer won't post.

Any suggestions would be helpful, thank you.
Btw, I consider myself VERY computer hardware and software savy so any
tech speak is fine.
Regards, Derek
========================================================

Edit: Since this email, I've borrowed my card to another different
friend to test the video card in his system (very new Prescott system)
and it works perfectly fine for him also.

I'm guessing I have a motherboard problem. It's as though some
component on my motherboard slowly burned up with the X800XT in my
system and then degraded far enough that it prevents my system from
booting up. However, at the same time something different about the
9800pro design doesn't require as much 'draw' from this degraded MB
component and allows my system to work seemingly normally. This sound
possible?


Albatron K8T800ProII, ADATA PC4000 1 gig, athlon64 3200+, nothing
overclocked

I've read your post and the replies in a.c.p.v.ati; I've recently had a
1 year old Gigabyte P4 motherboard do something similar to me. It
finally got so it wouldn't post at all. Even switching video cards
didn't help. Each of your busses have power regulation. On my GA8-iHXP
there was one that 'cooked out', and became unreliable. There are
actually 3 of these in parallel, so that enough current is provided to
the PCI bus and to the AGP bus (slot). One finally failed completely,
it was a 5V- regulator and supplies the 3.3v and 1.5v regulators. You
can lose part of your onboard voltage regulation and the system will be
non functional, reduce the load enough on the affected bus and the
system can appear reliable. But it will be just a matter of time and
that failing component will give out completely, as did mine.
The conditions made it look like it could be the power supply at first,
but that proved fine on another machine. Same for the CPU, video card,
sound card, ram DIMMs. I tried two different CPU's and both behaved the
same, a different PS and vid card, same. It was the motherboard.
You've proved the X800XT to be fine on two other systems. Your process
of elimination point firmly to the mobos onboard voltage regulation.

So now the mobo is shot, why? Well, the newer video cards DO require a
seperate power cable. BUT are the cards designed to really use that
external (to the AGP bus itself) power so that the load on the AGP bus
is actually alleviated? It doesn't look like it. It appears the fan
only is run from this external power cable. That's not helpful when the
bus' voltage regulator is designed for 1 amp max and the card itself
pulls almost an amp at 'idle'. It sounds to me that either the mobo
designers are skimping a bit on design criteria for the AGP version 3
bus (calls for 2 amps) or the vid card makers are allowing their boards
needs to push the 3.0 design specs over the boundaries. Or some of
each. Either way, I am seeing a *lot* of this kind of thing happening
with the widespread use of AGP3.0 specs. It's stacking up to be
something close to a 8% failure rate of motherboards because of this.
Hm. Now take note that the particular kind of failure is due only to
use of video cards with need for external power cable and at a guess,
failure rate is upwards of 20%. This is just me talking aloud with what
I've personally had to look at locally. No matter which way I paint it
now, it's something to definitely take notice of. And that we consumers
have seen and discussed it in public, you can bet the concerned
interests have noted it as well.

McG.

 

[Michael Brown]

What is the beep code it gives you on POST?

He mentions, three times, in his post that it's a "CPU error" beep code


The first thing I would look at is the voltage regulator capacitors. My
guess would be that the X800 is drawing more than the 9800 and the CPU isn't
getting a good stable voltage supply due to a failed filtering cap. These
are the usual culprit when higher-powered degrade over time, but lower-power
ones still work fine. See if the top is bulging or if there's a small hole
in the top of any of the motherboard or video card capacitors. The big ones
are usually the ones to go

Sticking a POST-code reading card in your computer would give you more
detailed information on where it's failing, but it's not exactly like
everyone has one of those in their spare-bits box. Another thing to try is
to heavily underclock the CPU. Using the 9800, set the multiplier and HT
speeds as low as possible. This will lighten the load on the voltage
regulators a lot. Essentially wind everything down to the slowest possible
settings in the BIOS using the 9800, then slowly increase things again until
it breaks with the X800.

Finally, try not connecting the HDD power cables to the X800. It should
still boot and warn you about your "mistake", and will possibly lower the
draw from the PSU (though may increase the draw from the M/B, not entirely
sure). However, since the X800Pro has a lower total power usage than the
9800Pro (IIRC), I'd be surprised if it's PSU issues.

[...]

 

[johns]

Why would he be getting a beep code if it is a vregulator
going bad?

johns

 

[rstlne]

Why would he be getting a beep code if it is a vregulator
going bad?

johns

When some voltage regulators go bad, they'll drive at 100% but give no
output (or rather, the output will be shunted)..
so this is one way.. line load is increase, or maybee even cutting on or off
and the cpu voltage regulators cant get stable enough and the power to the
cpu stays in a off state showing that the cpu is bad..

My old msi had a similar problem, few bad caps, faulty voltage regulator,
and a burnt amp (all of them were non-visible faults too) but the system
said bad cpu..
I did what msi suggested (so they would give me my warranty, but I never got
it)
ended up replacing the cpu, power supply, changing all drives, and even
removing it all from the case..
to top it all of the damn thing ended up popping 2 power supplys and one of
the REALLY neat things was that I took it to my pc shop to say .. give me
proof the motherboard is bad
and his test cards said that the motherboard was good and it was my
videocard .. ..

Reading the original post however I can say that a bad regulator on board
could be the cause but it's not something that's likely from what I have
seen in the past (he should really check forums that deal with that albatron
card to see if others are reporting similar issues)

 

[Scumball]

VGA issues and random reboots are definitive PSU symptoms.

 

[McGrandpa]

YET..... he swaps in the 9800 Pro and it all works. he swaps the X800
back in and it fails. X800 still works in two other systems. Suggests
to me the X800 draws on something that the 9800 Pro does not. So I'm
looking back to the motherboard.
McG.

 

[Destroy]

What is the beep code it gives you on POST?

He mentions, three times, in his post that it's a "CPU error" beep code


The first thing I would look at is the voltage regulator capacitors.

<snip helpful info>


Just picking this post to make a reply to all:

Thanks very much!


I don't wish to have any down time on my system having to RMA/ship and
wait for replacement mb. So, I've decided to just gamble, spent $100 and
ordered a new different motherboard (EPOX 8KDA3J). I kind of wanted a
newer nForce3 250 chipset board anyway.

Soon as I get my new mb I'll be able to sway many things around and I'll
know what's wrong, hopefully. Will report back here giving info.

Aside........... it's just pathetic nowadays how poorly manufactures
respond to email or manufacture forums. Albatron has not responded at
all. ATI has sent me a generic form letter obviously not reading my
decently detailed email report. Usenet and fan site forums are by far
the best tech support out there.

 

[rstlne]

YET..... he swaps in the 9800 Pro and it all works. he swaps the X800
back in and it fails. X800 still works in two other systems. Suggests
to me the X800 draws on something that the 9800 Pro does not. So I'm
looking back to the motherboard.
McG.

It could just be that his system is on a threshold.. that motherboard is
using 200ma more than another board (or something silly like that)..

What he doesnt say
(and this would be ideal) is if he has removed EVERYTHING except for the
psu, ram, mobo, processor, and video card to see if the problem goes away..

 

[rstlne]

Just picking this post to make a reply to all:

Thanks very much!


I don't wish to have any down time on my system having to RMA/ship and
wait for replacement mb. So, I've decided to just gamble, spent $100 and
ordered a new different motherboard (EPOX 8KDA3J). I kind of wanted a
newer nForce3 250 chipset board anyway.

Soon as I get my new mb I'll be able to sway many things around and I'll
know what's wrong, hopefully. Will report back here giving info.

Aside........... it's just pathetic nowadays how poorly manufactures
respond to email or manufacture forums. Albatron has not responded at
all. ATI has sent me a generic form letter obviously not reading my
decently detailed email report. Usenet and fan site forums are by far
the best tech support out there.

Be glad you didnt buy a dell

 

[McGrandpa]

<snip helpful info>


Just picking this post to make a reply to all:

Thanks very much!


I don't wish to have any down time on my system having to RMA/ship and
wait for replacement mb. So, I've decided to just gamble, spent $100
and ordered a new different motherboard (EPOX 8KDA3J). I kind of
wanted a newer nForce3 250 chipset board anyway.

Soon as I get my new mb I'll be able to sway many things around and
I'll know what's wrong, hopefully. Will report back here giving info.

Aside........... it's just pathetic nowadays how poorly manufactures
respond to email or manufacture forums. Albatron has not responded at
all. ATI has sent me a generic form letter obviously not reading my
decently detailed email report. Usenet and fan site forums are by far
the best tech support out there.

It's really been like this for a number of years. Basically, since
'civillians' (non scientists) gained access to Usenet freely sharing
information and ideas.
McG.

 

[McGrandpa]

It could just be that his system is on a threshold.. that motherboard
is using 200ma more than another board (or something silly like
that)..

What he doesnt say
(and this would be ideal) is if he has removed EVERYTHING except for
the psu, ram, mobo, processor, and video card to see if the problem
goes away..

I think he did, in the first post? I haven't re-read it. Having other
systems to swap parts around in to prove the items out was good. For
me to do the same, it meant taking it to a computer shop and swapping
lots of things around on 3 mobos, all different.

To be honest, even with 25 years solid experience troubleshooting as a
maintenance electrician in the steel industry with beginning background
in instrumentation and building my own systems since '85; I still get
surprises with PC's just about every day! It's what makes it both
hair-pulling frustrating and fun.
I sit looking over my dead GA8-iHXP 2.1 motherboard, and realize that
one tiny little oversight in any area of the design of the thing can
cause a failure that can be so difficult to trace down. That was an
expensive motherboard too. This newest one cost half as much, and the
ram cost half as much as the PC800 RDram does now. And now I've the
same or better memory bandwidth at half the cost. I'm not complaining
now
McG.

 

[XS11E]

This is a copy and paste of an email I sent to ATI (which has
gotten no response so far, big surprise there), NOT!!

Shouldn't be any surprise at all, ATI, like some other companies,
probably won't respond to any email. This is because of spam, of
course, hundreds of messages a day.

You need to go online to their website, select the customer care
button, pick "Contact Customer Care" and click on "Contact us by
email". Now you can open a support dialogue, they'll send a response
to your email address and you'll be able to reply by email to them as
long as the support number or whatever they call it is in the subject
line.

Thank you, spammers, for making this inconvenience necessary.