Using keyboard with Start menu

[Larry]

DP,

Thank you. What this means is, at least two additional steps are needed
over previous versions. For example, to Shut down the computer in an older
version, I press Winkey, then "U", and the Shut Down dialog box appeared.
It couldn't be simpler. But now, with Vista, I press Winkey, then I press
Tab twice to get to the shut down part of the menu (I don't have Vista in
front of me at the moment so I'm speaking from memory), then I press "S" or
whatever, then I press Enter. So it's several more steps than in previous
versions. Can someone tell me how this is an advance?

Larry

 

[DP]

Yes, I was a big fan of using the winkey to shut down the computer.
Actually it was Winkey, U, U.

The first U would start the shutdown process and the second U would choose
Shut Down instead of Restart and Standby. (I believe the U in Shut Down was
underlined -- at least sometimes -- to indicate that by pressing the U key,
that's what you wanted to do.)

I suppose it's possible to use a shutdown shortcut. I'm not sure how to do
that, but I'm sure there's someone here who knows. It's a shortcut to the
windows process that shuts down the computer. Once you have that shortcut on
your desktop, it shouldn't be hard to pin it to your start menu. Give it an
unusual name so that it might be the only thing on that menu to start with
that letter. Something like "X-close" or "Quit." Heck, you can even start
the name of it with a numeral (any from 0 through 9). Then, for sure it
would be the only thing to start with that character.

So, suppose you call it X-close. You would hit the Winkey, press TAB, press
X then enter. That's four keystrokes. Winkey, U, U, was three strokes. So,
you're a little closer.


PS: back as early as Win 3.1, I think, people were creating shutdown
shortcuts. But as I recall, there was a problem with the first ones and they
wouldn't store all your data before closing, or something like that. Anyway,
ever since then, I've stayed away from processes that are supposed to make
the shutdown process go faster. But that's just me. I think that the
problems in earlier versions of windows are not problems any more. Maybe
others have some insight into this.

 

[Lang Murphy]

Well... if I hit tab to jump out of the search window, and then I hit a "D"
it jumps back and forth between Documents and Default Programs. Not sure if
that's what you're looking for or not...

Lang

 

[Guest]

They should last many times two days. NiMh lose 3% of their charge a day
(plus any usuage). This still makes em work for weeks at a time.

 

[Justin]

You are aware that when recalling shortcut keys humans cease to percieve
time passing (according to Apple)

Apple's on crack

making mouses faster than KB even though KB users are convinced they are
quicker.

Ok, here's a specific example. It took me 6 seconds to find Remote Desktop
on a XP machine with a mouse (the menu lagged a little, perfectly acceptable
to factor that in).

It took me less then 1 second to fire off Remote Desktop with Vista using a
keyboard.

WinStart -> r -> e -> m -> ENTER

So yeah.....

Also according to Fenymann (something like, that a yank on the Challenger
Inquiry) when a part of the brain is being used by two processes (excuse
my computer metaphor) it time slices. So the person isn't aware of time
flow in the normal sense.

Fenymann's on crack

Microsoft seem to have no idea on humans. Humans like you or me have no
self awareness. Apple's research was needed. MS employees have no idea.

Actually, I believe you're wrong. I just got back from looking at a Mac and
I couldn't find a single keystroke to bring up the search. I had to use the
mouse. I'm sure there is some sort of keystroke to start it but I bet it
takes two keys. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I sure as hell
couldn't figure it out. Unlike a PC where the button on the keyboard says
START. So it would seem that MS does have an idea on humans and it's one
key shorter then apples idea.

 

[Justin]

I like to prepopulate Start Run with commands. Even easier, Start - Run -
click down arrow - Select command. People really should learn to use a
mouse.

You no longer need RUN with Vista. It's there, but not needed. You can run
apps from the search bar. Just type in whatever you want.

I'm not in front of Vista right now but I believe it's:

WinStart

That's it. Hit that key and you are in your RUN command box. That sure
beats TWO mouse clicks then having to come back to the keyboard to type,
since you usually need to TYPE something in that box anyway.

I'm not trying to convince you that you NEED a keyboard more then a mouse
but if you insist on these comments then you'll get a reply. I find the
average new Vista user (that I've come in contact with) doesn't realize the
full power of the new start menu. Even a seasoned college's jaw hit the
floor when I launched Remote Desktop in front of him. He didn't realize
that hitting the WinStart key put the focus on the search box to start
typing and that an ENTER would execute it.

 

[Justin]

But none of what is described below happens. If I press Winkey and then
type a letter, that letter is simply input into the little Search window
at
the bottom of the Start menu.

When you type the letter what happens to the REST of the start menu? It
updates to everything that starts with that letter.

If what you want is not on the top of the list then type the second letter
of what you want. Keep going until what you want it at the top of the list.

Now hit ENTER.

In fact I don't see how using the keyboard AT ALL is possible with the
Vista
start menu since it seems to respond only to the mouse.

Then your installation is toast. The new start menu is all about the
keyboard.

 

[Larry]

Ok, but there it is. This "more advanced" version of Windows takes one of
the most common Windows tasks, Shut Down, which in previous Windows versions
could be executed effortlessly with the absolute minimum number of
keystrokes, and turned it into something complicated that will require a
user to create a special shortcut to get around!

 

[Justin]

DP,

Thank you. What this means is, at least two additional steps are needed
over previous versions. For example, to Shut down the computer in an
older
version, I press Winkey, then "U", and the Shut Down dialog box appeared.
It couldn't be simpler. But now, with Vista, I press Winkey, then I press
Tab twice to get to the shut down part of the menu (I don't have Vista in
front of me at the moment so I'm speaking from memory), then I press "S"
or
whatever, then I press Enter. So it's several more steps than in previous
versions. Can someone tell me how this is an advance?

No, it's WinStart -> RIGHT -> RIGHT -> RIGHT -> U

Even with two more keys, I believe you'll find it still takes you less then
a second to execute.

However I'd like to address a specific comment. "How is this an advance?"
Are you trying to state that just because a specific routine was increased
by two keys then that negates all other advances in the start menu?

If you feel that way then, ok. However I think you should really give it an
"honest" try and I bet you'll find it much more convenient.

I know everyone gets grumpy over change. Hell, just look at the XP start
menu versus Win9x. Just about everyone cried over that one, including me!
I used the Win9x start menu for the longest time. Until one day I decided
to give it a real effort and use it. I never went back. It's the same with
Vista.

HOWEVER!!!!! If you REALLY are completely against the new start menu then
you can always turn on the classic menu.

 

[Justin]

However, if you insist on the run command then WinStart+R

 

[Justin]

keystrokes, and turned it into something complicated that will require a
user to create a special shortcut to get around!

No they didn't and no you don't:

http://productivity.ben61a.com/windows/vistashortcutkeys.php

 

[DP]

Larry: I don't disagree. Just thought that once you had the shorctut enabled
and pinned to your start menu you would forget what minimal difficulty you
had getting there.

Meanwhile, from the page Justin just referenced. Would LOCKING your computer
be of use to you? Winkey plus L.

 

[Larry]

HOWEVER!!!!! If you REALLY are completely against the new start menu then
you can always turn on the classic menu.

Ahh ... now I feel better. At least there is a choice.

 

[Justin]

I'm glad I found that page. This entire time I've been hitting
CTRL+ALT+DEL, ENTER to lock my machine....I never knew it could be so easy!


Also, to shut down my PC I hit just one button! The power switch

 

[Justin]

What I find slightly odd is that Win9x was classic to XP, yet Win9x is
classic to Vista. Where's the XP classic menu???

 

[Larry]

Justin,

I'm looking at the Vista Keyboard Shortcut list you sent me. While I'm impressed by the addition of various keystroke shortcuts, when it comes to Shutdown, even Microsoft is apologetic about the number of steps it takes to shut down the computer:


Logging In And Out
While the below shortcuts seem unwieldy because of their length, they're quite easy to remember once you try them out a few times.

Win, ->, ->, ->, Enter Shutdown
Win, ->, ->, ->, U Shutdown

This does not compare to the elegance of (Left) Winkey, U, Enter.

However, now that I know that if the Vista start menu is really intolerable, I can always switch to "classic," I feel easier about trying Vista.

Larry

 

[Guest]

I use Ctrl + Escape to access Start. Did you like my keyboard guide.

 

[Lang Murphy]

You can shutdown Vista with two mouse clicks.

By default, the first large button to the right of the Search box is set to
Stand By the computer. That can be changed to Shut Down the computer.

Let me know if you want to know how...

Lang

 

[Guest]

But libraries were filled with books from Apple's engineers. There were no
books by MS engineers.

www.asktog.com is the Mac UI designer and author and was involved in the
experiments.

Send him an email and argue with him. I complain to him about Windows
sometimes. (especially MS inability to get Help right)

 

[Larry]

Yes, I would be interested, thanks.

Larry