Types of media used as qualifying media for performiing a clean install using Upgrade CDs

[Donald L McDaniel]

Exactly which types of media can be used as qualifying media to perform a
clean install using a Windows XP Pro Retail Upgrade CD?

May "FULL OEM" cds be used?
If the "FULL OEM" cd does not contain an "i386" folder may it be used as
qualifying media to perform a clean install of XP Pro using a Retail Upgrade
cd?
Which CAB files must be on a "FULL OEM" cd in order to prove that you have
qualifying media to perform a clean install of XP Pro using a Retail
Upgrade cd?

These are the "FULL OEM" cds I presently have:
Windows 98se with many CAB files (first CAB file is named "*4.CAB". This
disk was manufactured by Microsoft.
Windows 95 with many CAB files (first CAB file is named "*4.CAB". This disk
was manufactured by Microsoft. (where "*" replaces the alphabetic characters
which I currently cant remember.)

I also have a FULL Retail copy of Windows 2000 Professional containing an
i386 folder. Don't know if this disk contains any CAB files. On cursory
examination, I did not see any CAB files in the i386 folder.

Which of the above media may be used as qualifying media to perform a clean
installation using a Windows XP Retail Upgrade cd? Please be specific, if
possible. If you have experience using any of the above media to perform a
clean install using an XP Pro Retail Upgrade cd, I would really appreciate
hearing of your experience.

I really need this information sometime before the early afternoon, as my XP
Pro retail upgrade cd is arriving via UPS sometime this morning.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

A Microsoft OEM or Retail full or upgrade version of
Windows 95/98/ME CD will qualify for using an upgrade
version of Windows XP for a clean install. You will be prompted
to insert one of those qualifying CDs in the CD drive during
the setup phase. You must have the actual CD and not have
that qualifying Windows operating system installed on a
different computer.

Clean Install Windows XP
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.mspx

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| Exactly which types of media can be used as qualifying media to perform a
| clean install using a Windows XP Pro Retail Upgrade CD?
|
| May "FULL OEM" cds be used?
| If the "FULL OEM" cd does not contain an "i386" folder may it be used as
| qualifying media to perform a clean install of XP Pro using a Retail Upgrade
| cd?
| Which CAB files must be on a "FULL OEM" cd in order to prove that you have
| qualifying media to perform a clean install of XP Pro using a Retail
| Upgrade cd?
|
| These are the "FULL OEM" cds I presently have:
| Windows 98se with many CAB files (first CAB file is named "*4.CAB". This
| disk was manufactured by Microsoft.
| Windows 95 with many CAB files (first CAB file is named "*4.CAB". This disk
| was manufactured by Microsoft. (where "*" replaces the alphabetic characters
| which I currently cant remember.)
|
| I also have a FULL Retail copy of Windows 2000 Professional containing an
| i386 folder. Don't know if this disk contains any CAB files. On cursory
| examination, I did not see any CAB files in the i386 folder.
|
| Which of the above media may be used as qualifying media to perform a clean
| installation using a Windows XP Retail Upgrade cd? Please be specific, if
| possible. If you have experience using any of the above media to perform a
| clean install using an XP Pro Retail Upgrade cd, I would really appreciate
| hearing of your experience.
|
| I really need this information sometime before the early afternoon, as my XP
| Pro retail upgrade cd is arriving via UPS sometime this morning.
|
| --
| Donald L McDaniel
| Please reply to the original thread,
| so that the thread may be kept intact.
| ==============================

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Also, a Microsoft Windows 2000 CD will qualify for
performing a clean install of Windows XP Professional.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Don't forget NT 4.0 is also a qualifying product for upgrade to Pro (but not
3.51).

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

And XP Home.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Don't forget NT 4.0 is also a qualifying product for upgrade to Pro (but
not 3.51).

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Also, a Microsoft Windows 2000 CD will qualify for
performing a clean install of Windows XP Professional.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

Here is an update to my previous post.
My XP Pro Retail Upgrade product arrived today. Here is a synopsis of my
experience.

1) I had a previous installation of XP Pro already on my HD.
2) I started the new install by booting with the XP Pro Retail Upgrade CD.
3) After the setup program began, I elected to delete all existing
partitions on the HD
4) After deleting all existing partitions, I created a single partition
filling all free space on the HD
5) After formatting this newly-created partition, I elected to install XP
Pro on this partition
6) Once all setup files were copied, the graphic portion began, during which
I was asked for my XP Pro Retail Upgrade CD key.
7) At no time was I asked to insert qualifying media from a previous version
of Windows 9x or 2k.
8) Setup continued, then rebooted the machine, at which time I was presented
with the OOBE program.
9) I elected to leave OOBE program without activating.
10) I installed all necessary drivers for video, sound, network, then
activated successfully via the Internet.

This leaves me with a few thoughts:
1) Everyone tells us that we need qualifying media to install using a Retail
CD. This is not completely true.
2) While it supposedly necessary to provide qualifying media for a clean
install using the Retail Upgrade CD, it apparently isn't necessary IF:
a) There is an existing installation of a version of Windows 9x/2k/XP on
the HD, whether the clean install is accomplished on an existing partition,
or on a new partition, even if all existing partitions are deleted then
recreated.

 

[D.Currie]

You didn't need the qualifying media because you had that on the hard drive
during the install. If you had formatted the drive first, then started the
install, you would have needed the qualifying media.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

"2) While it supposedly necessary to provide qualifying media for a clean
install using the Retail Upgrade CD, it apparently isn't necessary IF:
a) There is an existing installation of a version of Windows 9x/2k/XP on
the HD"

Then it is not a clean installation. It is an upgrade installation.

"whether the clean install is accomplished on an existing partition,
or on a new partition, even if all existing partitions are deleted then
recreated."

Not true. If all partitions are deleted then there is no longer a product
qualifying for upgrade on the computer and an upgrade edition will start
asking for a cd.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

"2) While it supposedly necessary to provide qualifying media for a
clean install using the Retail Upgrade CD, it apparently isn't
necessary IF: a) There is an existing installation of a version of
Windows 9x/2k/XP on the HD"

Then it is not a clean installation. It is an upgrade installation.

"whether the clean install is accomplished on an existing partition,
or on a new partition, even if all existing partitions are deleted
then recreated."

Not true. If all partitions are deleted then there is no longer a
product qualifying for upgrade on the computer and an upgrade edition
will start asking for a cd.

*** Note that I PLAINLY STATE above ***
a) There was an existing installation of XP Professional w/SP2 on the HD
b) I was using a Retail Upgrade CD of XP Professional w/SP2 for the install
c) I deleted all partitions then created one partition filling up all free
space prior to finishing the Setup program.
NOTE that this IS a "clean" installation, since I deleted ALL partitions
prior to completeing the Setup program. So I DID perform a "clean"
installation using a Retail Upgrade CD of XP Professional w/SP2, contrary to
your misinformation. Not only that, AT NO TIME during the Setup procedure
was I asked for qualifying media. Now, either I am lying or hallucinated,
or what I have reported is true. You must make up your mind.

From my experience, I can only conclude that it is NOT necessary to provide
so-called "qualifying media" (such as a Windows9x/ME/NT 4.1/2k CD) IF there
is an existing installation of Windows XP on the HD prior to deleting all
existing partitions.
..
This WAS the case in my experience. It may not agree with your experience,
but it was the case in my experience.

 

[D.Currie]

*** Note that I PLAINLY STATE above ***
a) There was an existing installation of XP Professional w/SP2 on the HD
b) I was using a Retail Upgrade CD of XP Professional w/SP2 for the
install
c) I deleted all partitions then created one partition filling up all free
space prior to finishing the Setup program.
NOTE that this IS a "clean" installation, since I deleted ALL partitions
prior to completeing the Setup program. So I DID perform a "clean"
installation using a Retail Upgrade CD of XP Professional w/SP2, contrary
to your misinformation. Not only that, AT NO TIME during the Setup
procedure was I asked for qualifying media. Now, either I am lying or
hallucinated, or what I have reported is true. You must make up your
mind.

You didn't respond to me, but...

You deleted the partitions as part of the setup from the CD, correct? So it
had a chance to see the partitions and verify that there was a qualifying
product. If you had, for example, used a boot floppy to delete the
partitions, then inserted the XP upgrade, it would have asked for qualifying
media because all it would have seen was the empty hard drive.

As far as whether it's a clean install or an upgrade, it's a matter of how
you're looking at it. It's a clean install because you left no trace of the
previous operating system, but the install could be considered an upgrade
because you started with an OS on the drive.

If you started with a clean hard drive and used the upgrade CD and you
didn't get prompted for a previous OS, I'd be quite surprised. I've done a
lot of installs, and the upgrade CDs always need something as a qualifier,
whether it's on the hard drive or another CD. If that did happen to you, I'd
suspect that somehow you got a full version CD that was mis-labled.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

You didn't respond to me, but...

You deleted the partitions as part of the setup from the CD, correct?
So it had a chance to see the partitions and verify that there was a
qualifying product. If you had, for example, used a boot floppy to
delete the partitions, then inserted the XP upgrade, it would have
asked for qualifying media because all it would have seen was the
empty hard drive.
As far as whether it's a clean install or an upgrade, it's a matter
of how you're looking at it. It's a clean install because you left no
trace of the previous operating system, but the install could be
considered an upgrade because you started with an OS on the drive.

If you started with a clean hard drive and used the upgrade CD and you
didn't get prompted for a previous OS, I'd be quite surprised. I've
done a lot of installs, and the upgrade CDs always need something as
a qualifier, whether it's on the hard drive or another CD. If that
did happen to you, I'd suspect that somehow you got a full version CD
that was mis-labled.

I assure you, at no time during the Setup process, or even afterward, was I
ever asked to provide qualifying media.

I had already concluded that the Setup program recognized my existing
installation of XP Pro, and somehow set an internal flag which told the
Setup program that qualifying media was found during the disk examination
portion of the Setup (the one right at the very beginning of the "DOS"
portion), which was why I was not later asked for qualifying media..

As to whether my install was a "clean" installation, I guess it is a matter
of interpretation, isn't it? After all, I DID clean off the HD prior to
installing a new copy of XP.

As to whether I somehow got a mislabeled CD; the CD is red, and is plainly
labeled "Upgrade", and "This program will search your system to confirm your
eligibility for this upgrade edition.". Not only that, but the CD has a
full embedded hologram covering the entire surface of the disk.

In addition, the CD came in a large blue folder which contained several
booklets, and had the Product Key on a yellow sticker on the back of the
folder, with a message "Don't lose thie Product Key!" The entire package
was contained in a blue and white retail package which was sealed within a
clear plastic enclosure. If the CD is really a Full Retail copy which is
mislabeled as an Upgrade, well, more power to me. If so, Microsoft finally
came through with something extra for me, after years and years of using its
products legally.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

You didn't respond to me, but...

You deleted the partitions as part of the setup from the CD, correct?
Correct

So it had a chance to see the partitions and verify that there was a
qualifying product. If you had, for example, used a boot floppy to
delete the partitions, then inserted the XP upgrade, it would have
asked for qualifying media because all it would have seen was the
empty hard drive.

I had already concluded that the "DOS" portion of the Setup procedure saw
my existing installation of XP and set an internal flag recognising my
exiting installation of XP as qualifying media, which was why I was never
asked to show that I had qualifying media for the install.

As far as whether it's a clean install or an upgrade, it's a matter
of how you're looking at it. It's a clean install because you left no
trace of the previous operating system, but the install could be
considered an upgrade because you started with an OS on the drive.

I would not consider it an upgrade, since an upgrade is defined as an
installation done over an existing installation, leaving the file system
intact.

If you started with a clean hard drive and used the upgrade CD and you
didn't get prompted for a previous OS, I'd be quite surprised.

As previously stated, the HD was clean when the Install portion of the Setup
procedure was begun.

I've done a lot of installs, and the upgrade CDs always need something as
a qualifier, whether it's on the hard drive or another CD. If that
did happen to you, I'd suspect that somehow you got a full version CD
that was mis-labled.

As I previously stated, I was never asked for qualifying media in the form
of a CD (or in any form, for that matter.) As to whether I somehow received
a mislabeled CD:
1) The CD is red
2) It is plainly labeled "UPGRADE", with a statement informing the user that
the Setup program will search his HD for qualifying software (which is what
happened during the beginning of the "DOS" portion of the install, when the
Setup program states "Please wait. Examining your HD."
3) In addition to the CD being labeled "UPGRADE", it has a hologram filling
the entire surface of the face of the CD which contains the words "Microsoft
Windows XP", as well as the Microsoft logo over a globe"
4) The CD came in a large tri-fold folder containing several large booklets.
5) The tri-fold folder was contained in blue and white retail packaging
which was sealed.
6) This package was contained in a sealed clear plastic enclosure.
If I got a mislabeled Full Retail product, I was finally blessed by
Microsoft with something extra for using Microsoft software legally for all
these years.

Note my qualifying "IF" in the above statement.

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

Please forgive me for my repeated post. Just as I attempted to post
originally, the newsserver crapped out, and I thought the post was lost in
transit, so I repeated the post.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

What was that?
What was that?

 

[Ron_R]

Donald, I'm confused. Exactly what was your question? Seems like you don't
think you got answers. Seems you may believe that you somehow got more than
you bargained for with an UPGRADE version. You allude to this when you say:

As to whether I somehow got a mislabeled CD; the CD is red, and is

plainly labeled "Upgrade".
...
Back in Win98 days, there was a prevalent misconception that an UPGRADE CD
could *ONLY* install 98 over the top of an existing OS. I have always done
*clean* installs meaning "wipe the drive, or format a new one" before
installing with the UPGRADE CD. The resulting installed OS is identical to
the FULL version install of the OS.

How you prove you have a qualifying existing OS is all that varies. I have
done it (mostly with 98 I admit) by supplying the previous CD, or by
pointing SETUP to an existing copy on an OLD harddrive put in the secondary
IDE channel. Haven't tried this latter method with XP.

So, I hate to burst your bubble, but I doubt you got a FULL version
mismarked as UPGRADE.
What you DO end up with, however, is the same identical FULL (the whole
shebang) complete version of the OPERATING system on your machine. You seem
to be thinking your UPGRADE somehow delivered more than you were entitled
to.
Now XP with WPA may be a little more picky about what steps you take to
"qualify" for an upgrade, but once qualified the following is true: You CAN
do a CLEAN install on a NEW partition with an UPGRADE CD.

BTW: CLEAN install is NOW the generally recommended way to Upgrade because
it leaves the old OS baggage behind. XP's Files and Settings Tranfer (FAST)
wizard facilitates this by retaining *most* of your settings if that's
important to you.

PS-- Just curious. Why did you UPGRADE an existing XP Pro to XP
--Ron

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

Donald, I'm confused. Exactly what was your question? Seems like you
don't think you got answers. Seems you may believe that you somehow
got more than you bargained for with an UPGRADE version. You allude
to this when you say:

is plainly labeled "Upgrade".
..
Back in Win98 days, there was a prevalent misconception that an
UPGRADE CD could *ONLY* install 98 over the top of an existing OS. I
have always done *clean* installs meaning "wipe the drive, or format
a new one" before installing with the UPGRADE CD. The resulting
installed OS is identical to the FULL version install of the OS.

How you prove you have a qualifying existing OS is all that varies.
I have done it (mostly with 98 I admit) by supplying the previous CD,
or by pointing SETUP to an existing copy on an OLD harddrive put in
the secondary IDE channel. Haven't tried this latter method with XP.

So, I hate to burst your bubble, but I doubt you got a FULL version
mismarked as UPGRADE.
What you DO end up with, however, is the same identical FULL (the
whole shebang) complete version of the OPERATING system on your
machine. You seem to be thinking your UPGRADE somehow delivered more
than you were entitled to.
Now XP with WPA may be a little more picky about what steps you take
to "qualify" for an upgrade, but once qualified the following is
true: You CAN do a CLEAN install on a NEW partition with an UPGRADE
CD.

BTW: CLEAN install is NOW the generally recommended way to Upgrade
because it leaves the old OS baggage behind. XP's Files and Settings
Tranfer (FAST) wizard facilitates this by retaining *most* of your
settings if that's important to you.

PS-- Just curious. Why did you UPGRADE an existing XP Pro to XP
--Ron

Ron, maybe you need to reread the entire thread. I have no thoughts that I
DID get a FULL Retail version mislabeled as a Retail Upgrade version. I was
simply answering
D. Currie's suggested possibility to put it to rest.

By the way, I did not do an "upgrade" install. I did a "clean" install
using the Retail Upgrade disk. While I had an existing installation of XP
Pro, I deleted all partitions on the HD from within the Setup program before
I installed XP on the single partition I created from within the Setup
program. From within the Setup program, I told it I wanted to do a clean
install, not an upgrade.

I was just wondering why I was never asked for proof of qualifying media
during the Setup and Installation process. I had come to the conclusion
that this was because the Setup program saw my existing installation of XP,
and marked it down in an internal memory location as legitimate qualifying
media before I deleted all existing partitions on the HD.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Ron is correct. The only difference between retail cd's is the installer
version.

 

[Ron_R]

Then *that* was your question, " ... why I was never asked for proof of
qualifying meda...?"
That was answered in the thread and by yourself: "I had come to the
conclusion that this was because the Setup program saw my existing
installation of XP."

I read the thread several times, thought everybody was on the same page, but
the thread kept going ... so I just threw my two bits into the ring -- I
understood WHAT you did, just not WHY you were questioning the result. No
criticism was meant, just trying to enlighten us both.

BTW-- Curiousity still begs: Why upgrade XP-Pro over XP-Pro, or did I
misinterpet again? Just asking ;-)

 

[Ron_R]

Then *that* was your question, " ... why I was never asked for proof of
qualifying meda...?"
That was answered in the thread and by yourself: "I had come to the
conclusion that this was because the Setup program saw my existing
installation of XP."

I read the thread several times, thought everybody was on the same page, but
the thread kept going ... so I just threw my two bits into the ring -- I
understood WHAT you did, just not WHY you were questioning the result. No
criticism was meant, just trying to enlighten us both.

BTW-- Curiousity still begs: Why upgrade XP-Pro over XP-Pro, or did I
misinterpet again? Just asking ;-)

 

[Donald L McDaniel]

Then *that* was your question, " ... why I was never asked for proof
of qualifying meda...?"
That was answered in the thread and by yourself: "I had come to the
conclusion that this was because the Setup program saw my existing
installation of XP."

So my statement that it is not necessary to have physical media such as a CD
to prove that one has a legitimate license to a version of Windows
9x/ME/NT4.1/2k is correct.
All that is required is an existing installation of a version of Windows on
the HD before the installation of Windows XP to perform a "clean" install
using the Windows XP Retail Upgrade disk, which has been my assertion all
along, and as was my experience when I used my newly-purchased Retail
Upgrade disk to install XP Pro on a "clean" hard drive. Others who have
responded to this thread seem to overlook this fact.

Since I've never upgraded a Microsoft OS (I invariably install the OS on a
"clean" HD), and I had read many articles in these Microsoft Newsgroup by
many supposedly knowledgeable people who have said that the Setup program
will require that you provide physical media such as a legitimate Full
Retail or OEM (in some cases) CD containing the CAB files, I was in
amazement that such was not the case when I installed XP cleanly using a
Retail Upgrade CD.

I read the thread several times, thought everybody was on the same
page, but the thread kept going ... so I just threw my two bits into
the ring -- I understood WHAT you did, just not WHY you were
questioning the result. No criticism was meant, just trying to
enlighten us both.

BTW-- Curiousity still begs: Why upgrade XP-Pro over XP-Pro, or did I
misinterpet again? Just asking ;-)

How many times do I have to say "I did a "clean install, not an upgrade"
before you understand what I have been sayiing? How can you misinterpret my
plain statement?

Tell me: If I delete all partitions from within the Setup program before I
install XP, is that not a "clean install?" Is not an install on a clean
hard drive which was cleaned by deleting all partitions on it considered a
"clean" install?

EXCEPT that a clean install with a Retail Upgrade is supposed to ask for
proof of a legitimate license to a version of Windows, at least according to
all the experts around here.

Perhaps we are not communicating because some are misinterpreting my words
"Full Retail" as if I am implying that the "Retail Upgrade" version of the
Installation disk will not do a full, complete install, as opposed to what a
"Full Retail" supposedly would do. However, I am well aware of the
difference between a "Retail Upgrade" CD, and a "Full Retail" CD, which is
that the "Full Retail" disk can perform both an upgrade or clean install,
but will not ask for proof of a legitimate license of a previous or current
version of Windows, while the "Retail Upgrade" can perform both an upgrade
or clean install, but will ask for proof of a legitimate license to a
previous or current version of Windows.