SP2 - Why bother?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gary
  • Start date Start date
Gary said:
Software that old..............18 months? Is that old? 6 months, 3 days,
your definition of old is very loose.

Never heard of "Moore's Law?" In computer terms, it means that 18
months is an entire generation. So, yes, 18-month-old software, if its
developers were not careful and pro-active, could indeed be obsolete.
You also need to measure the "age" of an application from the date it
went gold, not from the time - possibily months or years later - that
you purchased it. Anything specifically written for Win2K SP3 would be
rather dated, as WinXP has been on the market in excess of two years, now.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
 
Gary

You have been correctly identified as a troll.. if you feel that MS is
short-changing you in some way, e-mail the camera manufacturer and ask for
software compatible with Linux.. I feel sure that you will 'troll' well in
Linux newsgroups..

I found him to be trolling too - and he's not very good at it. A
educated troll can keep people going for weeks without an indication
that they are trolling. There are trolls in the Linux groups too :)
 
Gary

You have been correctly identified as a troll.. if you feel that MS is
short-changing you in some way, e-mail the camera manufacturer and ask for
software compatible with Linux.. I feel sure that you will 'troll' well in
Linux newsgroups..

Good luck with the OS switch..

Mike Hall
 
Gary said:
"I don't believe that anyone pulled your chain and forced you to purchase
XP or install SP1 or SP2"

The reason I installed XP in the first place was that the software for
digital camera I bought would only run on Windows 2000 SP3 (I had SP4) or
XP. So rather than going back to SP3, I had no choice but to go to XP.
So here I was forced to make the change, and I didn't really need to. And
had to spend money for an OS I really didn't want.

One day updates from Bill Gates Inc will not run on anything but SP2.
Hi

Microsoft's mainstream support for Windows XP SP1 ends 17-Sep-2006,
while it ends 30-Jun-2005 for Windows 2000 SP3/SP4.

In this perspective it is better to install WinXP SP1 than Win2k.

Then, enabling the builtin firewall in WinXP SP1 (or installing a 3rd
party firewall), and switch to another internet browser than IE, and
keeping up to date with security updates, you are in pretty good
shape regarding security.
 
Not a great reply...two totally different things.

Win 2000 was the first OS MS actually had close to being right. Compare that
to a nice Volvo (nothing flashy...but stable, reliable, runs well, low
maintenance). XP comes out flashy but with huge security issues and MS
decides to force users to "upgrade" to what has been proven to be inferior
software. That's not an oil change, that's getting screwed by a used car
salesman in a plaid sport coat.
 
Finally a constructive reply, thank you for your input.

As for the rest of you morons in this thread, enjoy your life in your own
little world decorating daisies and buttercups.
 
You don't get it.

An automobile -- a mechanical system
A computer -- a computing system

To maintain your auto you change the oil, put air in the tires, etc, etc.
To maintain a computing platform you install HotFixes and Service Packs, run disk
defragmenters, etc, etc.

It is as simple as that.

Dave



| Not a great reply...two totally different things.
|
| Win 2000 was the first OS MS actually had close to being right. Compare that
| to a nice Volvo (nothing flashy...but stable, reliable, runs well, low
| maintenance). XP comes out flashy but with huge security issues and MS
| decides to force users to "upgrade" to what has been proven to be inferior
| software. That's not an oil change, that's getting screwed by a used car
| salesman in a plaid sport coat.
|
| "S.Sengupta" wrote:
|
| > Great reply.:o)
| >
| > regards,
| > ssg MS-MVP
| >
| > David H. Lipman wrote:
| >
| > > Automobile oil change -- Why bother ?
| > >
| > > Dave
| > >
| > >
|
 
Leythos said:
I found him to be trolling too - and he's not very good at it. A
educated troll can keep people going for weeks without an indication
that they are trolling. There are trolls in the Linux groups too :)
Looks like there could be another very soon.. he will be in good company..
 
Computers and cars are products, consumable items. One of them can actually
produce some fun, the other is a huge pain in the ass.

If software was written correctly, you wouldn't need to defrag, install
hotfixes or Service packs.
Service packs and Hotfixes are avoiding a 'total recall' in the analogy of
motor vehicle. These are all patches to fix errors. Does your PC go faster
as a result of these patches....no, do your applications go
faster....no.........improvements to applications.....try another vendor eg
IE vs mozilla/Firefox la la la.
When people write code and sales push delivery for a product to be released,
you will always have errors caused by compromise. It's a matter of balance
on how much income is derived from the least amount of effort, and how much
the customer can afford to take the risk of accepting a compromise.
Windows has never been perfect, nor will it ever be. Consumers are so fed up
with the current Windows, they can't wait for an improvement to come out,
hence so much anticipation when a new OS is released. Enterprise couldn't
care less about new releases, they are struggling to keep up with the old OS
and fixes for that!

If patches are delivered, it means 'gee, we really did a good job at fixing
that problem' and we are the good guys for giving it away for free and the
world will be a better place. Pfffft. Blow the other horn.
 
8 months can be very old for technology, especially if updating one
component and ignoring others.

You can update your computer as you want, mine are a mix of old and
new, but I take responsibility and do what I can to keep it all
compatible.
That is the choice I make to keep them working, and they do.

If you think "Bill still didn't get it right", you have other options
to choose.
If you choose to stay with Windows, take responsibility for that
choice and do what is necessary.

You comparison of a computer and a 747 is totally irrelevant unless
you are advocating similar levels of regulations governing the
maintenance and use of your computer.
Right now you can do anything you want with no fear of regulations.
Then you can blame Microsoft because you have incompatible older
components.

Lastly perhaps this question by you is indicative of the information
you have:
"where is the "sp2" for Windows2000/Pro/Server.......? This OS is
still supported, where are the major security updates for this OS?"
The silence you hear may be because almost everyone but you already
knows SP-2 is so old, SP-4 is now current:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/servicepacks.mspx
 
Lastly perhaps this question by you is indicative of the information
you have:
"where is the "sp2" for Windows2000/Pro/Server.......? This OS is
still supported, where are the major security updates for this OS?"
The silence you hear may be because almost everyone but you already
knows SP-2 is so old, SP-4 is now current:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/servicepacks.mspx
You misunderstood. Is the same level of security fixes et al with XP Sp2
also available for Windows 2000?
 
I am not really familiar with those although I have used them.
However if what you want or need is in Windows XP, perhaps you really
need Windows XP.

Windows XP is getting old, but Windows 2000 is twice as old.
 
Another poster advised that support for Windows 2000 will run out in June
2005. Microsoft will in all likelihood not release such a service pack given
the time period of the product's eventual demise.

I found a solution to the Powerquest Drive Image 7 working with XP SP2. The
version I bought btw was purchased in March 2004, from Symantec. Symantec
have released Norton Ghost 9, which I suspect is the same product heritage
as Drive image 7.
Essentially, if Drive image 7 is installed on top of XP SP2, Drive image
will not work. The application must be removed as well as SP2, Windows clean
booted, then both drive image and SP2 reinstalled.
Symantec Document ID:2004111516343862 Last Modified:30/11/2004

Makes for a fun afternoon.
 
This is also to that clown Leythos.

Can't you picture these two beer belly proud dorks commenting on how well a
fly is climbing up their glass of Budweiser, in the meantime a dog craps on
their shoe and they wonder why the beer smells so much better now.......

Be observant and

http://www.sun.com/2004-1130/feature/

while you're on the subject of an alternative OS which you commented on.
 
OK - I see you don't grasp the comparative models.

Do you blame the manufacturer of tires because after 20K miles the tire are wearing down ?

In the mechanical system of an automobile, there is friction taking its course all of the
system. This friction causes wear.
Comparably, using a computer has a wear and tear factor as well. Data on hard disks will
become fragmented (there are NO operating systems don't suffer from data fragmentation or
memory fragmentation as a function of time, NONE), DLLs can get replaced or be put in the
"path" causing errors, the Registry will get bloated, etc.

All systems will suffer some form of chaotic behaviour due to the "Chaos and Complex
Systems" postulate and it makes no difference if it is a mechanical system or a computing
system.

As for your statement -- "One of them can actually produce some fun, the other is a huge
pain in the ass."
That is true for both. A car can be a lot of fun. I can cruise the highways, go to the
beach, go to the mountains, see the sights. However, if I have an auto with a problem such
as a radiator hose with a thin wall, I could end up at the side of the road in nowheresville
with a PITA. Likewise, I can have fun with a computer cruising the Internet, seeing the
sights, playing games or writing a thesis or balancing a budget. However, a maintenance
problem, not unlike the radiator hose, can side line my use of the computer. The RPC/RPCSS
DCOM Buffer Overflow problem and its side effects are comparable to a broken radiator hose.
They both will side line my fun and cause a PITA.

I brought up the Chaos and Complex Systems postulate because given any set of circumstances
in a complex system chaos will be the outcome. Both computers and automobiles are complex
systems. They both are a system in total and have multiple subsystems providing particular
functions The both have dependencies and interdependencies. If I disrupt an
interdependencies and in some way there will be ripple effects up and down the whole system.

You also stated -- "...These are all patches to fix errors. Does your PC go faster as a
result of these patches...."
No. Just like when you replace an alternator in a automobile, your automobile won't go
faster. You fixed the system, not upgraded it. If you add more RAM and put in a new CPU
then you will go faster. Similarly, if you put in a new carburetor or fuel injection system
and changed the exhaust and/or bored out the cylinders the automobile will go faster.

I'm truly sorry that you don't grasp the reality of the concept nor the reality of the
situation. I have tried to boil it down to a simple model and show you that problems are
inevitable. However, the human factor can increase the probability of failure in the
system.

I doubt that I have really totally enlightened you but I hope I have installed a small
understanding that will eventually lead to a fuller understanding of overarching concept.

Dave




| Computers and cars are products, consumable items. One of them can actually
| produce some fun, the other is a huge pain in the ass.
|
| If software was written correctly, you wouldn't need to defrag, install
| hotfixes or Service packs.
| Service packs and Hotfixes are avoiding a 'total recall' in the analogy of
| motor vehicle. These are all patches to fix errors. Does your PC go faster
| as a result of these patches....no, do your applications go
| faster....no.........improvements to applications.....try another vendor eg
| IE vs mozilla/Firefox la la la.
| When people write code and sales push delivery for a product to be released,
| you will always have errors caused by compromise. It's a matter of balance
| on how much income is derived from the least amount of effort, and how much
| the customer can afford to take the risk of accepting a compromise.
| Windows has never been perfect, nor will it ever be. Consumers are so fed up
| with the current Windows, they can't wait for an improvement to come out,
| hence so much anticipation when a new OS is released. Enterprise couldn't
| care less about new releases, they are struggling to keep up with the old OS
| and fixes for that!
|
| If patches are delivered, it means 'gee, we really did a good job at fixing
| that problem' and we are the good guys for giving it away for free and the
| world will be a better place. Pfffft. Blow the other horn.
|
| | > You don't get it.
| >
| > An automobile -- a mechanical system
| > A computer -- a computing system
| >
| > To maintain your auto you change the oil, put air in the tires, etc, etc.
| > To maintain a computing platform you install HotFixes and Service Packs,
| run disk
| > defragmenters, etc, etc.
| >
| > It is as simple as that.
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | Not a great reply...two totally different things.
| > |
| > | Win 2000 was the first OS MS actually had close to being right. Compare
| that
| > | to a nice Volvo (nothing flashy...but stable, reliable, runs well, low
| > | maintenance). XP comes out flashy but with huge security issues and MS
| > | decides to force users to "upgrade" to what has been proven to be
| inferior
| > | software. That's not an oil change, that's getting screwed by a used car
| > | salesman in a plaid sport coat.
| > |
| > | "S.Sengupta" wrote:
| > |
| > | > Great reply.:o)
| > | >
| > | > regards,
| > | > ssg MS-MVP
| > | >
| > | > David H. Lipman wrote:
| > | >
| > | > > Automobile oil change -- Why bother ?
| > | > >
| > | > > Dave
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
Here's where you are off-base. Leythos is a highly intelligent knowledgeable person. You
need to learn from him -- not call him a "clown".

Based upon what I have seen emanate from his fingertips, he is far from being a "clown" as
you so wrongly called him.

Dave



| This is also to that clown Leythos.
|
| Can't you picture these two beer belly proud dorks commenting on how well a
| fly is climbing up their glass of Budweiser, in the meantime a dog craps on
| their shoe and they wonder why the beer smells so much better now.......
|
| Be observant and
|
| http://www.sun.com/2004-1130/feature/
|
| while you're on the subject of an alternative OS which you commented on.
|
| | > Gary
| >
| > You have been correctly identified as a troll.. if you feel that MS is
| > short-changing you in some way, e-mail the camera manufacturer and ask for
| > software compatible with Linux.. I feel sure that you will 'troll' well in
| > Linux newsgroups..
| >
| > Good luck with the OS switch..
| >
| > Mike Hall
| >
| >
| > | > > And you do?
| > > Please tell us all then.
| > >
| > > | > >> Four of your first seven words sum things up quite nicely -
| > >>
| > >> "I don't quite understand"
| > >>
| > >> You're right ! !
| > >>
| > >>
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
 
Here's where you are off-base. Leythos is a highly intelligent knowledgeable person. You
need to learn from him -- not call him a "clown".

Based upon what I have seen emanate from his fingertips, he is far from being a "clown" as
you so wrongly called him.

Thanks Dave. I've learned over the years that it does little to reply
directly to these trolls. The best course of action is to present the
facts that completely dispute their inflammatory statements, let them
rant, and make sure that the new visitors understand that the poster is
a troll.

It's always funny to watch a troll fail to provide factual information,
fail to respond with any technical information, and to resort to name
foul statements. They are very easy to identify in most groups, but some
of the better trolls, the educated ones, can be very good at it without
resorting to using the above tactics.

I think the first Usenet troll, at least the first one I remember
seeing, came out from under it's foot bridge in the late 80's, I don't
remember seeing them before 88.
 
Gary said:
Computers and cars are products, consumable items..


Who ever said that you can't learn something new every day..

One of them can actually produce some fun, the other is a huge pain in the
ass.


There is no documemtation that can uphold this statement..

If software was written correctly, you wouldn't need to defrag, install
hotfixes or Service packs.
Service packs and Hotfixes are avoiding a 'total recall' in the analogy of
motor vehicle. These are all patches to fix errors. Does your PC go faster
as a result of these patches....no, do your applications go
faster....no.........improvements to applications.....try another vendor
eg
IE vs mozilla/Firefox la la la.


Completely untrue.. the very nature of editable files makes defrag a
necessity at some point.. there is not one product out there that is
expected to do as many and varied tasks where there is little or no control
over the hardware that is used.. Mac users buy a computer and just use it..
pc buyers are never content, and are constantly cobbling parts together..
where they get the idea that MS is responsible for any of it beats the hell
out of me.. we do not have the right to expect MS to second guess and
produce one platform that will work flawlessly on hardware configurations
that are anything but flawless..

Patches and hotfixes are sent out in an attempt to beat those who seek to
bring down MS, its operating system, and users of the same.. if these jerks
were to stop trying to find every little hole and they quit exploiting the
holes with malicious code, patches and hotfixes would almost cease over
night..

When people write code and sales push delivery for a product to be
released,
you will always have errors caused by compromise. It's a matter of balance
on how much income is derived from the least amount of effort, and how
much
the customer can afford to take the risk of accepting a compromise.


I like that.. 'income derived from the least amount of effort'.. what many
employees of companies dream about and some turn into reality.. isn't this
the reason for any shoddy goods regardless of who makes them.. bad design,
no proper testing, incorrect materials used in an attempt to save money,
assembly workers who don't give a rat's anything for quality control.. ever
heard of 'Friday specials'?.. ask any GM or Ford worker about them..


Windows has never been perfect, nor will it ever be. Consumers are so fed
up
with the current Windows, they can't wait for an improvement to come out,
hence so much anticipation when a new OS is released. Enterprise couldn't
care less about new releases, they are struggling to keep up with the old
OS
and fixes for that!



Some consumers are fed up with XP.. there are probably fed up with their
popup bread toaster too because the steaks keep sticking to the sides and
will not pop up at all.. happiness with a product is determined by one's
ability to understand the product and its limitations.. it is not the fault
of the computer and software manufacturers that the technology gets into the
hands of people who have little clue, any more than GM, Ford and DC have
control over people buying SUVs and driving them like they are a Ferrari..
and of course Enterprise needs to care about new releases.. industry would
all but disappear without new releases..


If patches are delivered, it means 'gee, we really did a good job at
fixing
that problem' and we are the good guys for giving it away for free and the
world will be a better place. Pfffft. Blow the other horn.


There was a time when one had to wait for the next release and PAY for it..
MS sends out free patches to help users combat the daily fight against those
people whose only reason for life is to Bring any MS operating system to its
knees.. if Linux was the leading OS, you would be posting your ill-conceived
drivel in a Linux newsgroup..



A question for you.. if Linux was the leading OS, which of the companies
that release versions would you blame, and why?

And if you really believe that MS OSes are inferior products, go to Linux
newsgroups and take a look.. problems problems problems.. and percentage
wise, there are not too many people using it yet..


Happy trolling, Gary
 
Gary said:
Another poster advised that support for Windows 2000 will run out
in June 2005. Microsoft will in all likelihood not release such a
service pack given the time period of the product's eventual demise.
Hi

Correct. Microsoft have stated that SP4 was the last service pack
for Win2k, there will not be a SP5.
 

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