SP2: any problems?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ToolPackinMama
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Serious question, David . . . are you arguing with me just because you can?
You didn't directly contradict anything I said, but you have a problem with
everything I said. If this is just a personal vendetta, get over it.
Please. -Dave
 
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555185&Product=winxp

This link states nothing about destroying a partition. It doesn't even
mention partitions at all. No data is lost and there is a workaround to
either continue using SP2 (with possible instability), or uninstall the
thing (with the time lost) and start over with SP1 or original XP. How can
anybody claim, as Dave C. has, that SP2 is "destroying partitions of
computers with Prescott processors" when no such thing has happened? Sound
the alarms!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Click to expand...

Y'know, it's easy to be a Microsoft apologist if you haven't spent several
hours fixing their ****-up for them. People need to know that there is a
REAL DANGER involved with installing SP2. SP2 can and HAS caused many
Computers to not be able to boot Windows, PERIOD. Not normally, not from
safe mode, and not from CD-Rom. There are workarounds to the problem, but
there are no GOOD solutions, just various degrees of really BAD solutions.
It would be irresponsible of someone who knows of the danger NOT to warn
others about it. -Dave
 
ToolPackinMama said:
Any problems to report with Service Pack 2? I'm curious to know how
it's going for you.
Click to expand...

I installed the beta Service Pack some months ago, and have been running two
PCs since. I can honestly say I've had no problems. I use the XP firewall
and pop up blocker on both PCs which are behind a router.

When I was running the beta programme, I tried an uninstall followed by a
reinstall. No problems at all.

Regards

Martin
 
Dave said:
Serious question, David . . . are you arguing with me just because you can?
You didn't directly contradict anything I said, but you have a problem with
everything I said. If this is just a personal vendetta, get over it.
Please. -Dave
Click to expand...

I explained precisely what I had a problem with: that you tell people it
may 'destroy' their partition (your original post was unequivocally simple:
that SP2 was 'destroying' partitions on particular CPU/chipset
combinations) and that if they should be unfortunate enough to find
themselves in this predicament then the only course of action is to rebuild
the whole thing; neither of which is true.

I also gave the impact reason for my complaint: that someone who has
important data sees you telling them that all is lost because you've
prejudged that the repair procedure is too painful, for you. The hint of
which, a repair procedure, only came to light after the challenges to your
claim of 'destroyed' partitions.

You often help people, and have a good knowledge set from which to draw on,
but do you not realize the potential harm that kind of hysterical
misinformation can do?

I don't understand why you felt the need to 'ask' because it was clear as a
bell in the text you snipped.
 
You often help people, and have a good knowledge set from which to draw
on,
but do you not realize the potential harm that kind of hysterical
misinformation can do?

I don't understand why you felt the need to 'ask' because it was clear as a
bell in the text you snipped.
Click to expand...

OK, point taken. I might have overstated my case just a bit. Still, if it
makes a few people think twice before installing SP2, I think that's quite
OK. I don't know exactly what is gained by installing SP2, but the
potential problems created by SP2 are quite significant. I wouldn't advise
anyone I care about to install SP2. What I find most ironic is that in one
of the workarounds suggested by Microsoft, MICROSOFT warns of system
instability. (What does ***MICROSOFT*** consider to be instability? . . .
that's got to be some pretty scary shit there!!!)

Don't mean to turn this into a Microsoft bashing post. I actually like
Windows XP, and that's based on comparing it to various flavors of linux and
all other versions of Windows. But SP2 needs some serious tweaking before
it will be ready for public release. (OOOOOooooops, too late) That's my
honest opinion, speaking both personally and professionally. You can
disagree with me all you like. I have no problem with that. -Dave
 
Dave C. said:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555185&Product=winxp

Y'know, it's easy to be a Microsoft apologist if you haven't spent several
hours fixing their ****-up for them. People need to know that there is a
REAL DANGER involved with installing SP2. SP2 can and HAS caused many
Computers to not be able to boot Windows, PERIOD. Not normally, not from
safe mode, and not from CD-Rom. There are workarounds to the problem, but
there are no GOOD solutions, just various degrees of really BAD solutions.
It would be irresponsible of someone who knows of the danger NOT to warn
others about it. -Dave
Click to expand...

OK Dave, I agree with your point about warning others of possible dangers,
but the danger you mentioned _never_ happened. It sounded more like some
rumor that an AMD fanboy would be spreading. Users are helped much more
when those in the know stick to the facts and don't post distortions and
innuendo.
 
OK Dave, I agree with your point about warning others of possible dangers,
but the danger you mentioned _never_ happened. It sounded more like some
rumor that an AMD fanboy would be spreading. Users are helped much more
when those in the know stick to the facts and don't post distortions and
innuendo.
Click to expand...

Oh, now that's ironic. Not long ago in this ng, someone was bashing intel
at every opportunity, screaming at the top of their lungs that the Athlon 64
was the best processor, PERIOD, regardless of what type of system you were
building. This person was clearly stating that the Athlon 64 was better
than the P4 in EVERY way. I corrected his sorry ass many times, even using
his own favorite web site (anandtech) to prove him wrong. I am indeed an
AMD fanboy, but I don't build AMD exclusively, and I wouldn't advise anybody
to dump a P4 in favor of an Athlon 64. I very much like the Prescott
processors, at the moment. But Prescott processors and SP2 don't mix very
well. Microsoft is trying to blame mainboard manufacturers for this
problem, but I blame Microsoft. If a system is working great before SP2 and
not working at all after, it is not logical to blame that problem on the
motherboard or the BIOS. Even Microsoft is aware that not all mainboards
have a BIOS update to address the issue. So Microsoft needs to fix this
problem, or remove SP2 from Windows Update. IMHO -Dave
 
Any problems to report with Service Pack 2? I'm curious to know how
it's going for you.
Click to expand...

I just did my 10th upgrade yesterday. 3 were from the Network installation pack
which I downloaded when it was available, 3 were from background downloads on
computers that were set to auto download and the last 4 were from the CD that
came last week.

I was extremely careful, doing spyware removal, defrag, disc cleanup and turning
off all programs before attempting the upgrades. All went well except one, a
rather crickity system on an older Gateway 500 and I suspected that it may give
me problems before I started so I backed up all of the data first to another
disc. I did have to do a format and clean install on that computer but I guess
I could have opted to uninstall SP2. It was just much more expedient to clean
it up and reinstall everything. I did slave the hd to another computer
afterward, just to make sure that I had all of the data and had no problem
accessing the partition. I then put it back in the Gateway and did a reinstall
and loaded sp2 at once, no problems. A little extra work but it needed a clean
install anyway. It's my grandaughter's machine and she just tears these things
up. A classic careless computer user.

Naturally the CD install is the most painless. Like most upgrades it's a PITA
but for casual users it may help to minimize the suffering later on.

The one I did yesterday is on a strange looking little Cele 550 that kind of
looks like R2D2 with a handle on the top. Not sure who made this thing, since I
can't seem to find any markings on the outside and the inside is so crammed up
that you can't even see the mobo but it's a spunky little computer.:) This one
upgraded like a dream, if just a little slow getting there.

I do think that it will cause problems for inexperienced users, especially if
they are careless when installing it. Should generate some business for those in
the repair end. If people have a slopped up and shitty computer this will
probably put the last nail in the coffin and maybe that's not a bad thing. I
seem to spend lot of time lately just cleaning up infested computers that are
all but choked to death with spyware and viruses.

Ed
 
Dave C. said:
You mean besides destroying partitions of computers with Prescott processors
on brand new motherboards of various chipsets? Other than that, no problems
to report. -Dave
Click to expand...

Prescotts + SP2 don't destroy partitions but you might have.
 
Dave C. said:
It's a well-known problem, someone else posted the link. I've seen SP2
destroy a perfectly good and working NTFS partition.
Click to expand...

My how unlucky we are as such hasn't happened to anyone else.
Luckily, it wasn't my
computer (one I was rebuilding for a friend), and there were no data files
on it YET. So nothing was lost, other than several hours of software
installation.

If you are thinking of SP2, I'd advise you to wait at least six months.
Maybe by then the problem will be worked out. -Dave
Click to expand...

Nonsense, SP2 works flawlessly for the great majority and there are
fixes/workarounds for most all the arcane problems like SP2+Prescott.
 
Dave C. said:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555185&Product=winxp

Note that when this happens your choices are

-update BIOS (if available, but many of the affected systems have no update
available)
Click to expand...

That's changing hourly.
-turn off cache and take SEVERAL HOURS to uninstall SP2
Click to expand...

No uninstall needed. Flash BIOS or rename update.sys
There is a third option, but even Microsoft warns that it will cause system
instability
Click to expand...

NO, that it might cause instability. It doesn't.
Basically, your best choice is to wait several months before attempting SP2,
unless you've done it already and were lucky enough to have nothing horrible
happen.
Click to expand...

Nonsense.
 
Dave C. said:
The problem is, many of the affected motherboards have no BIOS update
available.
Nonsense.

If you install SP2 with a Prescott processor and one of the
affected motherboards (mostly newer ones, ironically), you will end up with
a partition that will not run Windows (not even in safe mode).
Click to expand...

Nonsense, there's an easy fix.
You will
also have a partition that you can not install Windows on. While this
doesn't mean your partition is destroyed, it might as well be destroyed.
(The average computer user is ****ED at that point.)
Click to expand...

Ignore this guy as he's obviously wacko.
 
Nonsense, SP2 works flawlessly for the great majority and there are
fixes/workarounds for most all the arcane problems like SP2+Prescott.
Click to expand...

Have you READ the workarounds? For many motherboards with no BIOS upgrade,
even Microsoft warns of instability problems, and that's frickin' scary, to
put it bluntly. -Dave
 
Dave C. said:
Have you READ the workarounds?
Click to expand...

Obvoiusly, you haven't.
For many motherboards with no BIOS upgrade,
Click to expand...

Many have it now.
even Microsoft warns of instability problems, and that's frickin' scary, to
put it bluntly. -Dave
Click to expand...

Clueless, as I already posted in this thread the workarounds are tractable.
MS warns only that there is a possibility of stability problems using the
rename update.sys workaround. NONE have been reported by the many that have
done it.
 
Dave said:
OK, point taken. I might have overstated my case just a bit. Still, if it
makes a few people think twice before installing SP2, I think that's quite
OK.
Click to expand...

I suspected that might be your thinking but isn't the *real* problem bad
enough?
I don't know exactly what is gained by installing SP2,
Click to expand...

Actually, for the typical home user I can see a number of advantages. None
that can't be had a different way but then the typical home user tends to
take it 'as is' and that's where the advantage comes in: it improves the
'as is' protections.
but the
potential problems created by SP2 are quite significant. I wouldn't advise
anyone I care about to install SP2. What I find most ironic is that in one
of the workarounds suggested by Microsoft, MICROSOFT warns of system
instability. (What does ***MICROSOFT*** consider to be instability? . . .
that's got to be some pretty scary shit there!!!)
Click to expand...

I certainly wouldn't recommend it for the affected configurations (if
there's no update for them), but that isn't the whole world.
Don't mean to turn this into a Microsoft bashing post. I actually like
Windows XP, and that's based on comparing it to various flavors of linux and
all other versions of Windows. But SP2 needs some serious tweaking before
it will be ready for public release. (OOOOOooooops, too late) That's my
honest opinion, speaking both personally and professionally. You can
disagree with me all you like. I have no problem with that. -Dave
Click to expand...

Oh I agree it's a record breaking screw up on their part and I can't figure
out how the hell it got through test without having been run on a Prescott,
unless it's a case of meticulous BIOS maintenance on their in-house systems.
 
Dave said:
Oh, now that's ironic. Not long ago in this ng, someone was bashing intel
at every opportunity, screaming at the top of their lungs that the Athlon 64
was the best processor, PERIOD, regardless of what type of system you were
building. This person was clearly stating that the Athlon 64 was better
than the P4 in EVERY way. I corrected his sorry ass many times, even using
his own favorite web site (anandtech) to prove him wrong. I am indeed an
AMD fanboy, but I don't build AMD exclusively, and I wouldn't advise anybody
to dump a P4 in favor of an Athlon 64. I very much like the Prescott
processors, at the moment. But Prescott processors and SP2 don't mix very
well.


Microsoft is trying to blame mainboard manufacturers for this
problem, but I blame Microsoft. If a system is working great before SP2 and
not working at all after, it is not logical to blame that problem on the
motherboard or the BIOS. Even Microsoft is aware that not all mainboards
have a BIOS update to address the issue. So Microsoft needs to fix this
problem, or remove SP2 from Windows Update. IMHO -Dave
Click to expand...

I agree. There's no good reason why "gee, your BIOS really should have an
update for this processor" should prevent the system from running at ALL.
 
Ed_ said:
I was extremely careful, doing spyware removal, defrag, disc cleanup and turning
off all programs before attempting the upgrades. All went well except one, a
rather crickity system on an older Gateway 500 and I suspected that it may give
me problems before I started so I backed up all of the data first to another
disc. I did have to do a format and clean install on that computer
Click to expand...

Thank you for your testimony.
I do think that it will cause problems for inexperienced users, especially if
they are careless when installing it. Should generate some business for those in
the repair end. If people have a slopped up and shitty computer this will
probably put the last nail in the coffin and maybe that's not a bad thing. I
seem to spend lot of time lately just cleaning up infested computers that are
all but choked to death with spyware and viruses.
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too.
 
David Maynard said:
Oh I agree it's a record breaking screw up on their part and I can't figure
out how the hell it got through test without having been run on a
Click to expand...
Prescott,

It didn't get through. The issue was first reported in June under RC2.
Yes, that makes it even more curious but it still only affects a very small
subset of users.

There is a tractable workaround.
 
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