RL,
You are not interested in actually learning why people use Linux. I have programmed VB on windows for 10+ years and PHP, PERL for 10+ years on Linux. With previous experience with ColdFusion.
It's all about what you are looking for. And I see the strengths of each. People using windows will never understand how easy parsing a file, sorting, global search and replaces can be. And when using .NET creating a class layout is pretty darn easy. It does all the menial tasks. But sometimes understanding those menial tasks can be the difference in debugging a problem in code and spending hours on why the application is sending some erroneous data.
I use a text editor for all my Linux programming. I don't need a so called "smart" editor with intellisense.
And I use Visual Studio for .NET. Nothing is worse than going back to the GUI and typing a 'J' to move down a line.
And just like you, I'm not interested in learning outside my comfort zone. I am comfortable in each. Each has their strengths.
And that's the key. Who would program using Linux over silverlight or anything that Bill Gates turns out?
I would, because I get paid to and I enjoy it. If I got paid this much to sweep the street with a broom rather than a street sweeper. I would simply ask, what happens when I wear the broom out.
One will always look for a job in their comfort zone.
Some people want GUI with smarts that can auto type and tab for them and make the code all pretty for them..
And just cause a program can "port" to another platform doesn't mean that is the best thing.
And so in closing, you will always be at a loss as to why people choose one over the other. Are there Linux platform jobs in the US? yes. are there VS jobs? yes.
And as for Linux not being serious coding.. wow!
You are either just trying to stir the pot or born yesterday. Next you will say the Beatles and Black Sabbath don't have influence on today's music.
Cheers,
M
RayLopez99 wrote:
Seriously, who CODES in Linux? What IDE? Seriously.
13-May-10
Seriously, who codes in Linux and what platforms, IDEs, etc do the
use? What language
I code in C#, have done Windows Forms, WPF, Silverlight, ADO.NET
ASP.NET and some VB and Access dB programming, though I prefe
ADO.NET. Getting into WCF now (SOAP) web services using REST a
well. All of course under the award winning Visual Studio IDE. I a
using VS 2008 but might upgrade to VS 2010
Seriously, why would ANYBODY code in Linux? Why? You can por
Silverlight to Linux. I think in theory ASP.NET is platform neutra
as well
And what language would you use in Linux? C? C++? Why? And fo
server side, PHP? Why? Why would you do that? I am at a loss
Why would anybody use an IDE that does not have the bells and whistle
of Visual Studio, like Intellisense? What's the point of not having
decent IDE
The only thing I can think of is if you want to code ONLY for Linu
users, not for the 99% that does not use Linux OS and the over 90% tha
uses Windows OS. But again, you can port (I think) almost anythin
done in Visual Studio to Linux
Please educate me, I am at a loss
I would even argue perhaps that Linux coding is not serious coding
but I will leave that for another thread. Right now I am just curious a
to why anybody would torture themselves to code in Linux, and how the
go about doing it. Do they even have libraries for Linux coding
Stuff like a generic list, array, etc, or do you have to build you
own
RL
Previous Posts In This Thread:
Seriously, who CODES in Linux? What IDE? Seriously.
Seriously, who codes in Linux and what platforms, IDEs, etc do the
use? What language
I code in C#, have done Windows Forms, WPF, Silverlight, ADO.NET
ASP.NET and some VB and Access dB programming, though I prefe
ADO.NET. Getting into WCF now (SOAP) web services using REST a
well. All of course under the award winning Visual Studio IDE. I a
using VS 2008 but might upgrade to VS 2010
Seriously, why would ANYBODY code in Linux? Why? You can por
Silverlight to Linux. I think in theory ASP.NET is platform neutral
as well.
And what language would you use in Linux? C? C++? Why? And for
server side, PHP? Why? Why would you do that? I am at a loss.
Why would anybody use an IDE that does not have the bells and whistles
of Visual Studio, like Intellisense? What's the point of not having a
decent IDE?
The only thing I can think of is if you want to code ONLY for Linux
users, not for the 99% that does not use Linux OS and the over 90% that
uses Windows OS. But again, you can port (I think) almost anything
done in Visual Studio to Linux.
Please educate me, I am at a loss.
I would even argue perhaps that Linux coding is not serious coding,
but I will leave that for another thread. Right now I am just curious as
to why anybody would torture themselves to code in Linux, and how they
go about doing it. Do they even have libraries for Linux coding?
Stuff like a generic list, array, etc, or do you have to build your
own?
RL
If you do not want to purchase Windows or a whole new computer from Applewith
If you do not want to purchase Windows or a whole new computer from Apple
with Mac OS X, Linux would be a good choice.
How...?--Mark RaeASP.NET MVPhttp://
www.markrae.net
How...?
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net
Using something called mono IIRC.
Using something called mono IIRC.
Re:Seriously, who CODES in Linux? What IDE? Seriously.
I have played around with mono and mono develop that allows you to write C# and VB .net applications in Linux which is rather nice. Java and Eclipse IDE both work in Linux as well.
Many of the embedded systems that I have developed for in the past have versions of Linux on them. Most of the cool toys that you use will probably be like this too.
It would not surprise me at all if the Play Station 3 OS is a flavour of Linux. And of course Linux is free even Macs are a flavour of Unix.
Linux was a major part of my University course and is a great platform for learning on. Most of the worlds web servers are Unix/Linux using Apache, although Microsoft's IIS is becoming more popular.
j1mb0jay
-----------------------------------
Posted @
http://www.dotnethelp.co.uk
Mark Rae [MVP] pulled this Usenet boner:If you stick with cross-platform
Mark Rae [MVP] pulled this Usenet boner:
If you stick with cross-platform libraries, avoid Win32 and .NET, use
standard C/C++, in practise it works pretty well.
You really have to be on guard against letting VS wizards generate your code,
though.
--
Q: How many WASPs does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One.
RayLopez99 wrote:Who cares about what one would do on the Linux platform?
RayLopez99 wrote:
Who cares about what one would do on the Linux platform? Heck you got so
called programmers that actually program on the MS platform by day and
bash it by night lurking in COLA. They talk about MS and .NET in general
like the dogs that they are about. And yet none of them can get a job
collecting a paycheck programming on Linux.
Also, if you ever want to develop commercial applications, you mustpurchase
Also, if you ever want to develop commercial applications, you must
purchase Visual Studio. A hobbyist developer wanting to try to earn some
money with his creations may not want to pay ?999+ for it before he is
even making any money.
Anything you develop on a windows visual language is throwaway code.
Anything you develop on a windows visual language is throwaway code. Use it and
toss it. Don't ever expect any of it to run anywhere else, even on a future
version of your current visual language.
On 5/13/2010 18:51, Jackie wrote:I was referring to VS2010 Pro:
http://emea.
On 5/13/2010 18:51, Jackie wrote:
I was referring to VS2010 Pro:
http://emea.microsoftstore.com/europe/en-US/Microsoft/Visual-Studio-Professional-2010-Full-(English)
Of course, VS2008 would be a cheaper option (not *cheap* but cheaper).
Jackie wrote:This is not correct.<
http://www.microsoft.
Jackie wrote:
This is not correct.
<
http://www.microsoft.com/express/support/support-faq.aspx>
<copied>
How much will these products cost?
Effective April 19th, 2006, all Visual Studio Express Editions are free
permanently. This pricing covers all Visual Studio 2005 Express Editions
and Visual Studio 2008 Express Editions including Visual Basic, Visual
C#, Visual C++, Visual J# (only available in Visual Studio 2005
Express), and Visual Web Developer as well as all localized versions of
Visual Studio Express.
Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?
Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using
Visual Studio Express Editions.
<end copy>
AZ Nomad wrote:What an idiot this person is, and he is flat-out lying about it.
AZ Nomad wrote:
What an idiot this person is, and he is flat-out lying about it. This
person is not a programmer on any platform. He is just an office boy
bum, a throwaway..
I did before I retired, and still putter a bit at home.
I did before I retired, and still putter a bit at home.
The OS was SLES (SUSE Linux Enterprise Server). The IDE was Eclipse, and
the languages were C and C++.
I have an Ubuntu Desktop 10.04 system running under VMWare Player on my
Windows PC at home.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN (e-mail address removed)
Oh dear oh dear.
Oh dear oh dear.
Again, the common misconception, confusing the desktop with The Rest of the
World.
Once you stray from the desktop, your figures are a complete reversal of the
actual situation. The Linux installed base is at least *one* order of
magnitude greater than that of Windows, and it is probably very difficult to
find *anybody* who does *not* use Linux. I am not even talking there about
people Googling, or shopping at Amazon, or visiting a Linux-powered
web-site. Rather, I am talking about people owning evices devices which run
Linux.
Java and C++ quickly come to mind as development languages.
Java and C++ quickly come to mind as development languages. When
working with Java my preferred IDE is NetBeans. Eclipse is not bad
either.
it is a matter of choosing the proper tool to build a proper solution.
The idea that everything can/should run in a browser is fundamentally
flawed. The browser represents a layer of indirection which may not be
the most suitable environment for the application it hosts. No matter
what Google! says a thin client does not have to be browser-based.
The FOSS world is big on LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP). The main
reason is nothing sells like free. There is nothing wrong with that as
long as the tools are suitable for the task.
Bells and whistles are nice if they are useful, otherwise they just
get in the way. I have found nothing inherently wrong or lacking with
the Java IDEs I have used.
The best way to educate yourself would be to download some Java tools
and try using them. I'd suggest NetBeans and whatever Sun calls their
latest version of their app server. The price is right, i.e. free.
A simple project would be to write a Java client for a C# SOAP
service. After that write the SOAP server in Java and run it from the
app server.
Please do not move under a bridge and start that thread. Such
evangelism serves no purpose.
You really should try the tools before declaring how poor they are and
how difficult they are to use. it is also a good way to test your OO
skills.
Also please remember that Linux is an operating system and not a
programming language.
regards
A.G.
ray wrote:We went from VS 2005 to VS 2008 with no problems, soon to be VS 2010.
ray wrote:
We went from VS 2005 to VS 2008 with no problems, soon to be VS 2010. I
doubt that you have ever used .Net professionally anywhere.
ray wrote:It sounds like a PEBKAC problem (the problem exist between keyboard
ray wrote:
It sounds like a PEBKAC problem (the problem exist between keyboard and
chair).
You're not believable, and I would not trust anything you would have to
say as far as I could toss a building somewhere.
On 5/13/2010 18:59, The Big Ticket wrote:I was sure I learned a few years back
On 5/13/2010 18:59, The Big Ticket wrote:
I was sure I learned a few years back that you could *not* use the free,
Express editions commercially. Do you know anything about this?
Either way, that sounds very good and I thank you for making me aware of
this. Only VS 2008 is mentioned though, so I wonder if it also applies
for VS 2010.
Jackie pulled this Usenet boner:Why would he need to buy Visual Studio?
Jackie pulled this Usenet boner:
Why would he need to buy Visual Studio? Do the heavy lifting in Linux,
then download Visual Studio Express to work out any last-minute Windows
issues.
http://www.microsoft.com/express/support/support-faq.aspx
Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?
Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using
Visual Studio Express Editions.
If that has changed, then use other compilers. Or try:
http://www.mingw.org/wiki/MinGW
MinGW ("Minimalistic GNU for Windows") is a collection of freely
available and freely distributable Windows specific header files and
import libraries combined with GNU toolsets that allow one to produce
native Windows programs that do not rely on any 3rd-party C runtime DLLs
You'll still want to avoid Win32 constructs, unless they give yo
a speed advantage good enough to be worth the hassle
-
You will have long and healthy life.
On 5/13/2010 19:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:I wrote that post believing that you
On 5/13/2010 19:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote
I wrote that post believing that you could (still) not use the expres
editions commercially. Please see my previous post. I stand howeve
corrected now.
ray wrote :You certainly have never used any VS since VS6 then...
ray wrote
You certainly have never used any VS since VS6 then... I have cod
that I wrote first in VS2002 that opened, compiled, and runs in VS2010
It has been that way through all versions..
-
Tom Shelton
RayLopez99 wrote:I bet you are also at a loss as to why manufactures make and
RayLopez99 wrote
I bet you are also at a loss as to why manufactures make and stores sel
foods that you do not like or parts for cars that you do not drive o
greeting cards and paraphernalia for holidays that you do not observe, o
why television stations broadcast programs that you do not watch
Because, obviously, the whole world revolves around you and what you ar
familiar with, and if *you* do not understand why anyone uses anythin
you do not use or does anything differently from the way you do it, well
then, you are at a TOTAL loss because you just cannot comprehend it.
Yes, correct.
Yes, correct. I cannot for the life of me figure out Oprah Winfre
and daytime soaps either
So please educate me--why on earth would you code in Linux using Linu
tools
R
PS--To answer MVP Mark Rae upstream of this post, my book says you ca
port Silverlight to Linux using "Moonlight"...that is, write th
Silverlight code in Visual Studio, then presumably get the end user t
plug-in the "Moonlight" plugin into their browser (Konqueror i
supported says my book)
At least in theory.
Several years ago, I was forced to use visual studio.
Several years ago, I was forced to use visual studio. I hated ever
minute of it. Sheer hell. So hard to do anything of any substance.
programmed C in Linux and was significantly more productive than th
sheep forced into visual hell.
Amen. I still recall the chaos when we 'upgraded' visual hell.
Amen. I still recall the chaos when we 'upgraded' visual hell.
Or use Eclipse or one of the myriad of FREE development tools.
Or use Eclipse or one of the myriad of FREE development tools
Weren't you showing off about how you frequently use DDD because it gives yo
so many more features you need that VS does not? I asked you to lis
them. You slinked off
It also takes a real incompetent idiot to develop solely on one platform to ru
on another. You will never get the look and file and right UI model i
you dont use the platform you are targetting for UI rich elements. Bu
then you claimed you are more of a "server/daemon" guy and rarely progra
user interfaces so I guess we can let you off with that...
What programs do you develop on Linux and then merely polish on Windows
Because you know what? I think you are showing off and telling porkie
again ....
On 13-05-2010 11:30, RayLopez99 wrote:Obviously they code on Linux.
On 13-05-2010 11:30, RayLopez99 wrote
Obviously they code on Linux
x86-64 is by far the most used processor architecture
Many languages. I would consider the 3 biggest to be
PH
Jav
but C++, Python, Perl, Ruby etc. are also used
There are even a few that use C# via the Mono project
Emacs, vim, Eclipse etc. are used for development
Excellent server platform
It is more or less the defacto standard for high performanc
web sites.
And unless the language is extremely portable then it is
nice to develop on the same platform as the code will
be deployed on.
VS does not have support for PHP, Java etc.. It is a complete
non starter for many languages.
Most IDE's except Microsofts are available for Linux.
No. You are just ignorant.
Arne
On 13-05-2010 12:21, Robert Wolfe wrote:If the programming language is C#.
On 13-05-2010 12:21, Robert Wolfe wrote:
If the programming language is C#.
Which is rarely the case for Linux code.
Arne
On 13-05-2010 12:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:It is possible.
On 13-05-2010 12:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
It is possible.
But there are plenty of C++ IDE's available and usually
they make it a lot easier to write Linux C code (or ANSI C
code for that matter).
Arne
On 13-05-2010 12:51, Jackie wrote:Not true.
On 13-05-2010 12:51, Jackie wrote:
Not true.
VS Express Editions can be used for commercial applicationst.
Arne
On 13-05-2010 13:43, Jackie wrote:All Express Edition - 2005 and 2008 and 2010
On 13-05-2010 13:43, Jackie wrote:
All Express Edition - 2005 and 2008 and 2010 - has always allowed
commercial usage.
The FAQ does not seem to have been updated for 2010. But if you
check the actual license for the 2010 versions, then it does
not prohibit commercial usage.
Arne
On 13-05-2010 13:55, Jackie wrote:The first versions of Express was 2005 and
On 13-05-2010 13:55, Jackie wrote:
The first versions of Express was 2005 and they also allowed
commercial usage.
Arne
Arne Vajh??
Before you get suckered in here Arne, you should be aware that Liarmutt
(Chris) is a Windows programmer. He was apparently unaware that it is
illegal in C to dereference a null pointer AND he was advising a C
programmer to use casts in order to rid himself of "annoying" compiler
compile time warnings concerning incompatible data type assignments. In
short a bluffer.
If you "avoid" .net as a professional programmer you MIGHT end up with
something cross platform (why one would ask if there is market for it)
but at the same time you are losing the benefits of the world leading
..net infrastructure which provides a lot o useful libraries for
enterprise programmers.
On 13-05-2010 12:55, AZ Nomad wrote:Not true.C# code from .NET 1.
On 13-05-2010 12:55, AZ Nomad wrote:
Not true.
C# code from .NET 1.0 should build fine on .NET 4.0.
Same for VB.NET.
C++ for .NET changed significant from 1.1 to 2.0, but that
seems to be the exception.
Arne
On 13-05-2010 13:18, ray wrote:Not everybody likes a specific IDE.
On 13-05-2010 13:18, ray wrote:
Not everybody likes a specific IDE.
But VS has a good reputation in general.
Arne
On 5/14/2010 03:35, Arne Vajh?
On 5/14/2010 03:35, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
I have already said that it was a mistake from my side.
Thank you
The question is how you made that mistake? You were not just repeating
mindless COLA type lies were you with ZERO idea yourself? I think you
were ...
On 5/14/2010 13:18, Hadron wrote:To me, that seems to be a question you made
On 5/14/2010 13:18, Hadron wrote:
To me, that seems to be a question you made just now. Exactly what is
your problem? When people are quick to assume that other people are
liars, it tells a lot about themselves. You can believe so if that makes
you feel any better. I was sure I read it on MS' site some years ago.
Honest mistake, that is all.
Jackie pulled this Usenet boner:Indeed.
Jackie pulled this Usenet boner:
Indeed. "Hadron" is well known here in COLA as a *shameless* liar.
And you get credit for that acknowledgment.
--
You will have long and healthy life.
On 5/14/2010 14:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:I see.
On 5/14/2010 14:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I see.
Please, I do not need feel that I earned it, but thank you.
Tx Arne for your opinion.Now, SOAP or REST?
Tx Arne for your opinion.
Now, SOAP or REST? That is the question I pose to you. i'm getting
into WCF and SOAP now. Seems like a lot of XML stuff, which is OK
with me.
RL
...dio tor code,Good one Hadron.
...
dio to
r code,
Good one Hadron. Truth is, when I transitioned from C to C++ I made
the same mistakes as Chris (Liarmutt) with the pointers. Then when I
transitioned from C++ to C# (garbage collected) I made other
mistakes. But I lerned from my mistakes and I am bitter for it. ;-)
Unlike the liar, Liarmutt, a troll with no value add. At least when
I am trolling you know it--I do not try and pretend I am a professional
coder (most of the time).
Arne is very helpful btw in m.p.d.l.c, along with a few other fellows
like Peter Dunghino and Jon Skeets and some of the other MSFT MVPs
like Mark Rae, etc.
RL
Here is what I found from the link Rex Ballard posted (soundsreasonable to me).
Here is what I found from the link Rex Ballard posted (sounds
reasonable to me). So SOAP is superior.
RL
To summarize their strengths and weaknesses:
*** SOAP ***
Pros:
=95 Langauge, platform, and transport agnostic
=95 Designed to handle distributed computing environments
=95 Is the prevailing standard for web services, and hence has better
support from other standards (WSDL, WS-*) and tooling from vendors
=95 Built-in error handling (faults)
=95 Extensibility
Cons:
=95 Conceptually more difficult, more "heavy-weight" than REST
=95 More verbose
=95 Harder to develop, requires tools
*** REST ***
Pros:
=95 Language and platform agnostic
=95 Much simpler to develop than SOAP
=95 Small learning curve, less reliance on tools
=95 Concise, no need for additional messaging layer
=95 Closer in design and philosophy to the Web
Cons:
=95 Assumes a point-to-point communication model--not usable for
distributed computing environment where message may go through one or
more intermediaries
=95 Lack of standards support for security, policy, reliable messaging,
etc., so services that have more sophisticated requirements are harder
to develop ("roll your own")
=95 Tied to the HTTP transport model
See
http://www.mono-project.com/Main_PageSo, they work in C#, etc.
See
http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
So, they work in C#, etc. They use php, java, python, ruby, C++, etc.
And, just creating Silverlight apps may not work. Moonlight only supports up
to Silverlight 2.0.
--
----
Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP
Hadron wrote:You mean like the *hundreds* of links already posted, and totally
Hadron wrote:
You mean like the *hundreds* of links already posted, and totally ignored
by you?
You can pull as may Glassers as you like by simply ignoring those links
and then claiming they do not exist, that will not make them go away though
--
Avoid reality at all costs.
Peter K?
Peter K?hlmann pulled this Usenet boner:
Already done, many times.
Yup.
My favorite "Hadron" lie is claiming that I said you can dereference a null
pointer (in userland code). He apparently could not understand the
gcc-generated assembly code I posted, even though:
I have a formidable background in machine code/assembler and so can
explain how pointers work in a manner which might make it clearer to you
since you are clearly confused.
-- "Hadron" <
[email protected]>
--
You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.
Watch out jackie, the troll is playing one of his favorite games withyou.
Watch out jackie, the troll is playing one of his favorite games with
you. With each repetition what he claims you said diverges just a little
bit more from your actual words, until he has you trying to defend
something you never said.
On 5/14/2010 20:30, hotfoot wrote:Thank you, hotfoot. That was well said.
On 5/14/2010 20:30, hotfoot wrote:
Thank you, hotfoot. That was well said.
You do not code you terd. Man up about it and get off this threadidiot.RL
You do not code you terd. Man up about it and get off this thread
idiot.
RL
On 5/14/2010 21:40, RayLopez99 wrote:Are you sure wrote to the right person?
On 5/14/2010 21:40, RayLopez99 wrote:
Are you sure wrote to the right person? I think you are misunderstanding
something here, but well, it is okay.
On 14-05-2010 09:58, RayLopez99 wrote:I am not sure that comp.os.linux.
On 14-05-2010 09:58, RayLopez99 wrote:
I am not sure that comp.os.linux.advocacy is relevant for this
discussion.
The summary is reasonable.
I would not conclude that SOAP is better than REST.
As usual it is all about picking the right tool
for the job.
Arne
Arne Vajh?
Arne Vajh?j wrote:
The NG and the clowns in it are worthless. You cannot see that? You
should stop cross posting to that worthless NG.
Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice
Task Parallelism in C# 4.0 with System.Threading.Tasks
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorial...f8b-50cfd1a51577/task-parallelism-in-c-4.aspx