Resizing Partitions

[Bob Simon]

About a year ago I rebuilt my system and partitioned my drive with a
small first partition (254 Cyl or 1.88 GB), a large second partition,
and six empty and hidden 254 Cyl partitions at the end to hold backup
copies of the C drive. I've used Ranish Partition Manager to modify
the partition table bringing previously hidden partitions into the MBR
as needed to make these backups. I believe this has worked as desired
even though I haven't ever tried to re-install XP from a backup.

This scheme did not take into account that the C drive would
substantially grow in size because of programs that insisted on
installing portions of themselves on the C drive, plus numerous
Windows updates that installed themselves on C. Now I'm out of space.

It seems to me that it should be possible to reduce the size of the
second partition by moving back its start by 100 cyl, then increase
the size of the first partition by the same amount. Right? But
before I can do this, I need to relocate all data that's currently on
this portion of the disk. How do I do that?

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

The only way you can create, delete, resize or merge existing partitions,
and not harm your existing Windows installation, is to purchase and use
a third-party partitioning program such as Partition Magic 8.
http://www.symantec.com/partitionmagic/

The alternative is to perform a "clean install" of Windows XP:

How to Partition and Format a Hard Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;313348&Product=winxp

Please read the following:

Benchmarking on Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/sysperf/benchmark.mspx

NTFS Preinstallation and Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/winpreinst/ntfs-preinstall.mspx

<snip>

Microsoft implemented certain disk-layout optimizations in Windows XP.
To perform this optimization, during idle time Windows XP moves pages
used for booting the system and launching frequently used applications to
ensure these files are laid out contiguously on the hard disk. The contiguous
disk layout of these pages results in reduced disk seeks and improved disk I/O,
contributing to improved boot time and application launch time.

Windows XP does not perform these optimizations across volumes. Therefore,
for this optimization to be available to users, the hard disk must be partitioned
as a single volume.

<end of snip>

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User
Microsoft Community Newsgroups
news://msnews.microsoft.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| About a year ago I rebuilt my system and partitioned my drive with a
| small first partition (254 Cyl or 1.88 GB), a large second partition,
| and six empty and hidden 254 Cyl partitions at the end to hold backup
| copies of the C drive. I've used Ranish Partition Manager to modify
| the partition table bringing previously hidden partitions into the MBR
| as needed to make these backups. I believe this has worked as desired
| even though I haven't ever tried to re-install XP from a backup.
|
| This scheme did not take into account that the C drive would
| substantially grow in size because of programs that insisted on
| installing portions of themselves on the C drive, plus numerous
| Windows updates that installed themselves on C. Now I'm out of space.
|
| It seems to me that it should be possible to reduce the size of the
| second partition by moving back its start by 100 cyl, then increase
| the size of the first partition by the same amount. Right? But
| before I can do this, I need to relocate all data that's currently on
| this portion of the disk. How do I do that?

 

[John Barnett MVP]

If i have to resize any partitions i use Powerquest's Partition magic. The
only problem is you need freespace to resize with. So you basically need to
reduce the size of certain partitions to create freespace. With the amount
of partitions you have it will involve a lot of work and it certainly will
be time consuming.

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org

The information in this post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind,
either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this post. The Author shall not be liable for any
direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use
of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post..

 

[Guest]

Use a free program such as QTParted, which is part of the rescue CD for the
Linux operating system that can be obtained from http://www.sysresccd.org/.
Download the ISO image and then burn it to a recordable CD-R / DVD-R / DVD+R
disc. You can run QTParted from the CD. It is meant for use with Linux, but
can be used to partition and resize partitions for the NTFS file system used
by Windows XP. Alternatively, you can download the program here:
http://qtparted.sourceforge.net/, but you'll have to create your own bootable
CD/DVD and copy the program to it if you want to use it from a CD/DVD.

Eric,
PC Buyer Beware!
http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/

 

[Richard in Va.]

A short time ago, I bought and used Norton Partition Magic (PM8) to do a
similar task.
I bought a new Dell system with a 160GB drive partitioned as drive "C:"

I set my boot order to boot from CD drive first via the system BIOS.
Inserted the Partition Magic disc, then exited the BIOS saving changes.
Allowed the system to boot to the CD.

A menu will pop up, select to run PM8 utility from disk.
PM8 will boot giving a (not so bad) GUI that will show all your disk's and
partition structures.
This will look similar to the WinXP Computer Management's "Disk Management"
window.

This method will allow you to resize your partitions without any OS being in
use. Probably a safe approach.

Resize your partitions as you want.
Maybe you should backup your important files first.

With my situation, a 160GB drive as "C:", I reduced C: to about 30GB, this
happened pretty quick due to WinXP residing at the beginning of partition
therefore no data had to be moved.
I used the new unused space as an extended partition and filled it with
logical drives.

I was really impressed how well and quick this worked.

After using PM8 to do the critical work on C:, you can install the program
as intended.
(I prefer not to mess with the boot partition while the OS is running)

Hope some of this is helpful to you!

Best regards,
Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Bob Simon]

If i have to resize any partitions i use Powerquest's Partition magic. The
only problem is you need freespace to resize with. So you basically need to
reduce the size of certain partitions to create freespace. With the amount
of partitions you have it will involve a lot of work and it certainly will
be time consuming.

I have lots of free space on D: so I can easily shrink it's size and
move the start back 100 cyl providing that Partition Magic will
relocate the data . Or do you mean free unpartitioned space?

Also is Powerquest PM the same thing as Symantec PM?

 

[Rock]

About a year ago I rebuilt my system and partitioned my drive with a
small first partition (254 Cyl or 1.88 GB), a large second partition,
and six empty and hidden 254 Cyl partitions at the end to hold backup
copies of the C drive. I've used Ranish Partition Manager to modify
the partition table bringing previously hidden partitions into the MBR
as needed to make these backups. I believe this has worked as desired
even though I haven't ever tried to re-install XP from a backup.

This scheme did not take into account that the C drive would
substantially grow in size because of programs that insisted on
installing portions of themselves on the C drive, plus numerous
Windows updates that installed themselves on C. Now I'm out of space.

It seems to me that it should be possible to reduce the size of the
second partition by moving back its start by 100 cyl, then increase
the size of the first partition by the same amount. Right? But
before I can do this, I need to relocate all data that's currently on
this portion of the disk. How do I do that?

Storing backups in partitions on the same drive is not a very safe
recovery solution. What happens when the drive crashes and you can't
get to them? Backups should be stored on external media, a tape drive,
an external hard drive and/or DVD.

 

[Richard in Va.]

Norton bought Partition Magic from Powerquest, It's basically the same thing
repackaged under the Symantec/Norton name.

If you reduce drive D:, PM8 (Partition Magic 8.0) will relocate data for
you.
you just need to be certain that the target size of D: is large enough to
hold the existing data.
The newly created "unused" "unpartitioned" and "unformatted" space will
likely reside right behind drive D:.
After resizing D:, use PM8 to move the new unused space directly behind
drive C.
This will cause PM8 to begin moving data in drive D: towards the end of the
disk.
(I'm not sure how PM8 handles formatting and such, maybe someone can add to
this)
But from my experience (several months ago) I think it does all the dirty
work for you.
I also feel that PM8 will protect you from creating an obvious mistake.
It's up to you to backup prior to all this.

Once the "unused" space is located right behind C:, then you can enlarge C:
to use all of the available "unused space"....

Speaking for myself, I would also defrag the drives prior to using PM8.

Also, speaking for myself, I would also do all these partition moves while
booted to the PM8 disc, meaning the OS on your hard drive is not in use.
therefore no files will be open and in use.

Also... Also... Symantec does have several newsgroups that might be helpful
as well. It's my understanding that Norton/Symantec does not monitor the
newsgroups, they just host them for users of their product. There will be
people there that are more familiar with PM8 than I.

If you purchase PM8, there should be a pdf userguide on the disc that your
can look through prior to using the software.

Hope some of this is helpful!

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Bob Simon]

Storing backups in partitions on the same drive is not a very safe
recovery solution. What happens when the drive crashes and you can't
get to them? Backups should be stored on external media, a tape drive,
an external hard drive and/or DVD.

Rock,
You make a valid point and although I do not back up my data, I
realize that some day I may wish that I had. And since new 100 GB
drives are under $100, there's really no reason not to anymore.

However, my goal was not to protect myself from a catastrophic drive
failure, but rather from Windows being corrupted by some program I
installed, from a virus or other malware corrupting my registry, or
from some other system problem. In my opinion, these are far more
likely failure modes than a drive crash.

 

[Rock]

Bob Simon wrote:

Rock,
You make a valid point and although I do not back up my data, I
realize that some day I may wish that I had. And since new 100 GB
drives are under $100, there's really no reason not to anymore.

However, my goal was not to protect myself from a catastrophic drive
failure, but rather from Windows being corrupted by some program I
installed, from a virus or other malware corrupting my registry, or
from some other system problem. In my opinion, these are far more
likely failure modes than a drive crash.

Drives fail all the time.

 

[Ron Martell]

About a year ago I rebuilt my system and partitioned my drive with a
small first partition (254 Cyl or 1.88 GB), a large second partition,
and six empty and hidden 254 Cyl partitions at the end to hold backup
copies of the C drive. I've used Ranish Partition Manager to modify
the partition table bringing previously hidden partitions into the MBR
as needed to make these backups. I believe this has worked as desired
even though I haven't ever tried to re-install XP from a backup.

This scheme did not take into account that the C drive would
substantially grow in size because of programs that insisted on
installing portions of themselves on the C drive, plus numerous
Windows updates that installed themselves on C. Now I'm out of space.

It seems to me that it should be possible to reduce the size of the
second partition by moving back its start by 100 cyl, then increase
the size of the first partition by the same amount. Right? But
before I can do this, I need to relocate all data that's currently on
this portion of the disk. How do I do that?

Doesn't your Rannish Partition Manager include the capability to
resize existing partitions?

If not then certainly other partitioning utilities such as Partition
Magic and BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) do. I currently use BootItNG
but have used Partition Magic extensively in the past.

The operation is quite simple. Just use the partitioning utility to
first reduce the size of the D: partition by creating an unused area
at the beginning of that partition, then increase the size of the C:
partition to incorporate the unused area.

Most partitioning utilities that I have used work in terms of
megabytes rather than logical cylinder numbers, so you may have to do
some fine tuned calculations if you want to have your partitions on
specific cylinder boundaries.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

 

[Bob Simon]

Doesn't your Rannish Partition Manager include the capability to
resize existing partitions?

If not then certainly other partitioning utilities such as Partition
Magic and BootItNG (www.bootitng.com) do. I currently use BootItNG
but have used Partition Magic extensively in the past.

The operation is quite simple. Just use the partitioning utility to
first reduce the size of the D: partition by creating an unused area
at the beginning of that partition, then increase the size of the C:
partition to incorporate the unused area.

Most partitioning utilities that I have used work in terms of
megabytes rather than logical cylinder numbers, so you may have to do
some fine tuned calculations if you want to have your partitions on
specific cylinder boundaries.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

Resizing the partition is not the problem. I can certainly do that.
The problem comes in first relocating the data that is on the
partition to be resized. I don't recall reading that RPM does that
but I'll check. And yes, I need my partitions to start on an x, 0, 1
or x, 1, 1 boundary.

Since you have experience with Partition Magic, I'm especially curious
why do you currently prefer BootItING.

 

[Ron Martell]

Resizing the partition is not the problem. I can certainly do that.
The problem comes in first relocating the data that is on the
partition to be resized. I don't recall reading that RPM does that
but I'll check. And yes, I need my partitions to start on an x, 0, 1
or x, 1, 1 boundary.

Since you have experience with Partition Magic, I'm especially curious
why do you currently prefer BootItING.

Better price, and Partition Magic is now owned by Symantec, meaning
that it is well on the way to becoming bloated, disfunctional crud.

My PM was a very old version (4 I think) and it was totally out of
date for dealing with larger hard drives and newer operating systems
such as Windows XP.

Any time I have reduced the size of a partition it has always involved
the relocation of the data from the area being reduced. And if I try
to reduce the partition size by an amount that exceeds, or is even
very close to, the amount of unused space currently in the partition
the program will give me a warning/error message to that effect.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

 

[Jonny]

The six partitions used for backups have to be resized as well I believe to
accomodate your newly resized boot partition of XP for backups. One or more
may have to be deleted to create space for the remainder.

For the purpose of your current backup method that you mention on another
reply, imaging to another hard drive can serve the same purpose. And you
have a backup in case of primary hard drive failure as well.

 

[Rick]

Better price, and Partition Magic is now owned by Symantec, meaning
that it is well on the way to becoming bloated, disfunctional crud.

My PM was a very old version (4 I think) and it was totally out of
date for dealing with larger hard drives and newer operating systems
such as Windows XP.

Any time I have reduced the size of a partition it has always involved
the relocation of the data from the area being reduced. And if I try
to reduce the partition size by an amount that exceeds, or is even
very close to, the amount of unused space currently in the partition
the program will give me a warning/error message to that effect.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

I have version 8 and it works very well. Symantec may have some
detractors in cyberspace but, I have found that NAV,System Tools and
Partition Magic all work very well.

Rick

 

[logan]

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[Jonny]

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