Replacing my HP 970 with......?

[Monica]

She did me proud for 5 years and 4 months, but last night, she printed her
last page I've had HPs for over 10 years and have been very happy with
all of them. So HP is certainly a consideration but I'm also considering a
Canon. HP or Canon, nothing else. I no longer print pictures since
discovering how well Walmart does them so I'm looking for a inkjet that does
clean, crisp text, nice saturated graphics and *can* do a good job on
photos, as opposed to a dedicated photo printer that *can* do crisp text and
nice graphics. The Canon i860 gets really good marks on Cnet but I'm not
finding this printer on line at Best Buy or Office Depot which makes me
think it must be an older printer. OK, I see...release date Sept 03. I've
always spent around $500 for my HPs but would like to keep it below $150
this time. I print my own greeting cards so I need something that will
handle a variety of cardstocks. The individual ink cartridges are nice but
not necessary. How does Canon do it's print heads? I like how HP
incorporates them on the ink carts so you're getting a new one every time
you change ink. Are there any issues with Canon's print heads?
Thank you,
Monica

 

[measekite]

Consider the HP1200 or a Color Laser.

 

[Bob Headrick]

She did me proud for 5 years and 4 months, but last night, she printed her
last page I've had HPs for over 10 years and have been very happy with
all of them.

In a later post you indicate that you have some extra cartridges left from your
970. You might take a look at the DeskJet 6122, which is a successor to the
970 and uses the same cartridges. It is a bit above your price target at $179
but the cartridge compatibility may be worth a bit to you.

You might also be interested in the DeskJet 6540 ($129) or 6540dt ($179, with
automatic duplexer like the 970 and 6122).

Any of the above are sturdy printers that should give you years of good
service. See:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-236251-236261.html

It may be possible to revive the DeskJet 970. What are the symptoms? A
printer that is 5 years old may need to have some simple cleaning to restore
its operation.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Burt]

First order of business is to post your printer symptons as Bob Hendrick
suggests as there may be an inexpensive fix. I am using a Canon i960, a six
color printer that probably has similar mechanical components to the Canon
860. I can print card stock suitable for greeting cards. I usually use
Epson double sided matte paper as it produces better print quality than card
stock. Much cheaper is the card stock I use which is Wasau 65 pound cover
stock but it is not coated for inkjet inks so photos aren't as vivid. Still
suitable for many purposes, including some simple text and graphics cards.
The I960 is still available on line new for around $150 to $160. I liked
mine so well that I bought one for my wife as well at the end of 2004. You
can get printers in the newer Pixma line that have a few more features, but
some reviewers feel that the I960 was superior to the equivalent Pixma
printer. Since I don't need a duplex printer or other features in the
newest Canon line, I opted for the I960 over the newer Pixmas. As far as
cost of printing is concerned I use aftermarket inks and, for my photos,
Costco glossy photo paper at $19 for 125 8.5x11 sheets. Cutting each into
three 4x6's gives you a paper cost of around five cents. Aftermarket inks
add just a few pennies and you really beat the price of Walmart prints. I
print my own for creative control with Photoshop elements 3 and enjoy the
process as well. If you have an interest in using aftermarket inks in
canons you will find several posts on this NG from people who have used
these products successfully. You just need to be selective as there are
also junk inks out there.

 

[measekite]

First order of business is to post your printer symptons as Bob Hendrick
suggests as there may be an inexpensive fix. I am using a Canon i960, a six
color printer that probably has similar mechanical components to the Canon
860. I can print card stock suitable for greeting cards. I usually use
Epson double sided matte paper as it produces better print quality than card
stock. Much cheaper is the card stock I use which is Wasau 65 pound cover
stock but it is not coated for inkjet inks so photos aren't as vivid. Still
suitable for many purposes, including some simple text and graphics cards.
The I960 is still available on line new for around $150 to $160. I liked
mine so well that I bought one for my wife as well at the end of 2004.

I prefer the IP4000. It does have fewer ink carts that print the very
subtle colors but these colors do not show up and many photos. The
results of the IP4000 is vibrant and stunning (when using OEM inks),
especially on Canon Photo Paper Pro and Costco/Kirkland Glossy that is
1/7 of the price of the Canon paper. It also has dual paper feeds and
prints full duplex. And the on sale cost is about $100 in many places
including Frys, Office Depot, and Staples. This is when it is on sale
and there is also a Canon rebate.

You
can get printers in the newer Pixma line that have a few more features, but
some reviewers feel that the I960 was superior to the equivalent Pixma
printer.

The only Pixma 6 color printer is the IP6000D. This is over price, has
had poor reviews when compared with the IP4000, and is targeted for the
person who wants to edit and print without a computer. Most serious
hobbyists use an editor like Photoshop.

 

[Burt]

(clip)>

I prefer the IP4000. It does have fewer ink carts that print the very
subtle colors but these colors do not show up and many photos. The
results of the IP4000 is vibrant and stunning (when using OEM inks),

When I purchased the I960 for my wife (our second I960) it had the original
OEM carts. My I960 printer has MIS inks which I put in MIS virgin carts.
I did prints of several photos on Costco paper with different predominant
colors and skin tones with each printer set at the same settings. Both made
beautiful prints. On a side-be-side comparison of the same photos made with
two of the same model printers at the same settings (manual to eliminate any
variable from one printer's automatic feature to the other) on the same
paper I could not see a real difference! Both OEM and MIS inks made
beautiful prints.

I am not trying to sell anyone on using third party inks in general or the
one I use in particular. I can only tell you of my own good experience. I
only post these messages to counter Measekite's bias so that people who wish
to try these products will educate themselvesand then make up their own
minds. You just need to know that he has never done business with ANY of
the vendors, so his rants against them are without basis. In addition, he
has never used third party inks, good or bad. Maybe we should start a
thread inviting anyone with GOOD or BAD experience to post THEIR OWN
experiences about these inks. Would need to tell us which printer, age of
printer and level of use, which vendor and label of ink, problems (if any),
and what attempts were made to correct the problem. I'm open minded as long
as we get honest reports from actual use. Unlike Measekite, I am prepared
to listen and learn.

I have seen a few posts, from people with what appears to be head clogs from
OEM or aftermarket inks, in which they described their efforts to clear the
print head using only the cleaning cycles in the printer software. Some
give up at that point and buy a new printer. Most clogs are not fatal and
can be cleared by the owner at home. I learned this with a clogged head
Epson in which I used exclusively OEM inks and printed thousands of pictures
over three years time. After considerable use most inkjet printers get a
buildup of dried ink under the print head and sometimes also get ink drying
in the jets as well. HP solves the problem by having the consumer purchase
their expensive carts that include a print head in them . With Canon and
Epson there are simple cleaning techniques, not documented by the
manufacturers, that solve the problem without having to buy a new print head
each time you buy an ink cart.

By the way, Measekite, your jaundiced view of all manufacturers might be
applied to THIS issue. You ask why the ink vendors sell cleaning products,
and you conlude that this is tacit admission that all their inks cause
problems. Since it is well documented that OEM inks can cause clogs also,
why don't the manufacturers sell these products and provide trouble shooting
and maintenance instructions in their documentation. Perhaps they want to
give the appearance that all you need to do is put paper in the printer, put
it on auto pilot, and hit the print button. Leave the maintenance and
repair to repair shops. Since repair people need to make a living they have
to make a labor charge that provides them a living wage, and that makes a
simple repair that the consumer could actually do him/herself too expensive
to pay for in a low to medium price printer. So the consumer, lacking the
knowledge to fix the problem, feels compelled to chuck it into the landfill
and buy a new one. You can draw any inference from this that you wish, but
the one you HAVE drawn about ALL third party inks and certain of the vendors
is abolutely flawed. You spread disinformation to people who have asked for
help and that is just wrong. You malign vendors who, by other's experience,
sell decent products and treat their customers fairly. All this peppered
with crass and infantile name calling and responses.

especially on Canon Photo Paper Pro and Costco/Kirkland Glossy that is 1/7
of the price of the Canon paper. It also has dual paper feeds and prints
full duplex. And the on sale cost is about $100 in many places including
Frys, Office Depot, and Staples. This is when it is on sale and there is
also a Canon rebate.

(clip)

 

[measekite]

(clip)>



When I purchased the I960 for my wife (our second I960) it had the original
OEM carts. My I960 printer has MIS inks which I put in MIS virgin carts.
I did prints of several photos on Costco paper with different predominant
colors and skin tones with each printer set at the same settings. Both made
beautiful prints. On a side-be-side comparison of the same photos made with
two of the same model printers at the same settings (manual to eliminate any
variable from one printer's automatic feature to the other) on the same
paper I could not see a real difference! Both OEM and MIS inks made
beautiful prints.

I am not trying to sell anyone on using third party inks in general or the
one I use in particular. I can only tell you of my own good experience. I
only post these messages to counter Measekite's bias so that people who wish
to try these products will educate themselvesand then make up their own
minds. You just need to know that he has never done business with ANY of
the vendors, so his rants against them are without basis.

Not true. Why do business with someone when the majority of them will
not tell you what you are buying. All they know is the word
compatible. I have heard that bullshit since the beginning of the PC
clones when the so called compatible bias's were not really compatible.

These sleeze balls hid behind their website, do not provide adequate
information, and some like alotofcrap take offense when you ask them to
fess up.

In addition, he
has never used third party inks, good or bad. Maybe we should start a
thread inviting anyone with GOOD or BAD experience to post THEIR OWN
experiences about these inks.

Most of the people with bad experience went back to OEM and do not
frequent this NG; especially when they find hawkers masquerading as
everyday novices. Tony da Tiger and WeStink are two I can think of off
the top of my head.

Would need to tell us which printer, age of
printer and level of use, which vendor and label of ink, problems (if any),
and what attempts were made to correct the problem. I'm open minded as long
as we get honest reports from actual use. Unlike Measekite, I am prepared
to listen

LISTEN LISTEN
THE CATS PISSEN
WHERE WHERE
UNDER THE CHAIR
RUN RUN
GET YOUR GUN
TO LATE
HE'S ALL DONE :-D

and learn.

I have seen a few posts, from people with what appears to be head clogs from
OEM or aftermarket inks,

More from after market inks.

in which they described their efforts to clear the
print head using only the cleaning cycles in the printer software.

And that uses even more ink

Some
give up at that point and buy a new printer. Most clogs are not fatal and
can be cleared by the owner at home.

Many of these people love to spend time tinkering with their printer
than enjoying photography

I learned this with a clogged head
Epson in which I used exclusively OEM inks and printed thousands of pictures
over three years time. After considerable use most inkjet printers get a
buildup of dried ink under the print head and sometimes also get ink drying
in the jets as well. HP solves the problem by having the consumer purchase
their expensive carts that include a print head in them . With Canon and
Epson there are simple cleaning techniques, not documented by the
manufacturers, that solve the problem without having to buy a new print head
each time you buy an ink cart.

By the way, Measekite, your jaundiced view of all manufacturers might be
applied to THIS issue. You ask why the ink vendors sell cleaning products,
and you conlude that this is tacit admission that all their inks cause
problems.

Well, I am glad you finally figured that out.

Since it is well documented that OEM inks can cause clogs

less frequently

also,
why don't the manufacturers sell these products and provide trouble shooting
and maintenance instructions in their documentation. Perhaps they want to
give the appearance that all you need to do is put paper in the printer, put
it on auto pilot, and hit the print button.

That is what I have done with my HP printers for 10 years and my Canon
for 8 months.

Leave the maintenance and
repair to repair shops. Since repair people need to make a living they have
to make a labor charge that provides them a living wage, and that makes a
simple repair that the consumer could actually do him/herself too expensive
to pay for in a low to medium price printer. So the consumer, lacking the
knowledge to fix the problem, feels compelled to chuck it into the landfill
and buy a new one.

It is common when purchasing many electronic products to replace them
because the cost of the new product is more cost effective than a
repair. In addition, you are getting a more advanced product.

You can draw any inference from this that you wish, but
the one you HAVE drawn about ALL third party inks and certain of the vendors
is abolutely flawed.

Correction:

Most aftermarket inks and the majority of resellers aka whory hawkers

You spread disinformation to people

No more than you

who have asked for
help and that is just wrong. You malign vendors who,

They need it. Someone has to help them get on the right track. Choo
Choo Choo Choo

by other's experience,
sell

NoName something

decent products and

some who

 

[Frank]

(clip)>



When I purchased the I960 for my wife (our second I960) it had the original
OEM carts. My I960 printer has MIS inks which I put in MIS virgin carts.
I did prints of several photos on Costco paper with different predominant
colors and skin tones with each printer set at the same settings. Both made
beautiful prints. On a side-be-side comparison of the same photos made with
two of the same model printers at the same settings (manual to eliminate any
variable from one printer's automatic feature to the other) on the same
paper I could not see a real difference! Both OEM and MIS inks made
beautiful prints.

I am not trying to sell anyone on using third party inks in general or the
one I use in particular. I can only tell you of my own good experience. I
only post these messages to counter Measekite's bias so that people who wish
to try these products will educate themselvesand then make up their own
minds. You just need to know that he has never done business with ANY of
the vendors, so his rants against them are without basis. In addition, he
has never used third party inks, good or bad. Maybe we should start a
thread inviting anyone with GOOD or BAD experience to post THEIR OWN
experiences about these inks. Would need to tell us which printer, age of
printer and level of use, which vendor and label of ink, problems (if any),
and what attempts were made to correct the problem. I'm open minded as long
as we get honest reports from actual use. Unlike Measekite, I am prepared
to listen and learn.

I have seen a few posts, from people with what appears to be head clogs from
OEM or aftermarket inks, in which they described their efforts to clear the
print head using only the cleaning cycles in the printer software. Some
give up at that point and buy a new printer. Most clogs are not fatal and
can be cleared by the owner at home. I learned this with a clogged head
Epson in which I used exclusively OEM inks and printed thousands of pictures
over three years time. After considerable use most inkjet printers get a
buildup of dried ink under the print head and sometimes also get ink drying
in the jets as well. HP solves the problem by having the consumer purchase
their expensive carts that include a print head in them . With Canon and
Epson there are simple cleaning techniques, not documented by the
manufacturers, that solve the problem without having to buy a new print head
each time you buy an ink cart.

By the way, Measekite, your jaundiced view of all manufacturers might be
applied to THIS issue. You ask why the ink vendors sell cleaning products,
and you conlude that this is tacit admission that all their inks cause
problems. Since it is well documented that OEM inks can cause clogs also,
why don't the manufacturers sell these products and provide trouble shooting
and maintenance instructions in their documentation. Perhaps they want to
give the appearance that all you need to do is put paper in the printer, put
it on auto pilot, and hit the print button. Leave the maintenance and
repair to repair shops. Since repair people need to make a living they have
to make a labor charge that provides them a living wage, and that makes a
simple repair that the consumer could actually do him/herself too expensive
to pay for in a low to medium price printer. So the consumer, lacking the
knowledge to fix the problem, feels compelled to chuck it into the landfill
and buy a new one. You can draw any inference from this that you wish, but
the one you HAVE drawn about ALL third party inks and certain of the vendors
is abolutely flawed. You spread disinformation to people who have asked for
help and that is just wrong. You malign vendors who, by other's experience,
sell decent products and treat their customers fairly. All this peppered
with crass and infantile name calling and responses.




(clip)

Very well written post Burt. But why bother with mesershit. We all know
by now that he probably couldn't find his ass even if allowed to use
both hands.
Frank

 

[measekite]

Your wife still is a virgin. She just gives bad head. Frankie why
don;t you stick you head in there, wiggle your ears and puch. She will
never know the difference :-* :-*