Red alert re wysiwyg editor PageBreeze

[Michael Laplante]

I've been enthusiastically recommending the wysiwyg html editor PageBreeze
to this ng, since I discovered it via Freeware World Team a couple of months
ago. However, today I opened it and was confronted with a nag / advert
screen that takes up about a quarter of the program's real estate. To get
rid of it, you are instructed to "click here to get rids of these ads."
Clicking takes you to the home pages of the "sponsors" of these ads,
including the homepage for PageBreeze Pro. Returning to the program reveals
that the nag screen does not go away, despite the instructions.

According the PageBreeze website:

"PageBreeze is completely free for personal, not-for-profit, or educational
use. There are no limitations, no nag screens, no required registration, and
the software will never expire . If you use PageBreeze in your job, or in a
for-profit business for non-evaluation purposes, you must obtain an
inexpensive license for PageBreeze Professional , which includes several
more advanced features."

Digging into the program's help file though there is no mention of "no nag
screens."

"PageBreeze is completely free for personal, not-for-profit, or educational
use. There are no limitations, and the software will never expire."

On that basis, I retract my earlier recommedations for this program. I have
sent an email to the author requesting clarification / explanation. I'll
update this ng if I hear back from them.

M

 

[Mike Dee]

On that basis, I retract my earlier recommedations for this
program. I have sent an email to the author requesting
clarification / explanation. I'll update this ng if I hear back
from them.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Paul Johnson]

TOO MUCH SNIPPED OUT - What is this all about?
Paul

 

[Michael Laplante]

TOO MUCH SNIPPED OUT - What is this all about?
Paul

Doesn't your newsreader follow threads?

FYI, contrary to the author's site's description, this otherwise excellent
wysiwyg html editor displays a prominent nag screen after some sort of
undetermined trial period. I no longer recommend it as freeware. Waiting to
hear the author's explanation.

M

 

[Michael Laplante]

However, today I opened it and was confronted with a nag / advert
screen that takes up about a quarter of the program's real estate.

On that basis, I retract my earlier recommedations for this program. I have
sent an email to the author requesting clarification / explanation. I'll
update this ng if I hear back from them.

<quote>
Just received their reply. It follows:

Hello Micahel,

I guess our definitions of a "nag screen" are
different. We believe that a nag screen is a dialog
box or window which interrupts use of the program and
requires you to take an action (press the cancel
button, etc.). What you are seeing are simply
advertisements, and these are quite common in many
leading freeware programs (ie. Eudora, etc).

Thanks,

Marty
FormBreeze Support
<end quote>

My reply to that:
<quote>
Hmmm. . . I think you are playing semantics here.

Why doesn't this "advertisement bar" show up in the screenshots of the
program on your site?

Why does it not appear until after a certain number of times / certain
period of time?

Why isn't it mentioned in any of your descriptions of the program?

FWIW, I contacted a number of sites that advertise your program, describing
what I was seeing. They agree with me that it constituted "nagging" and have
pulled your program from their listings. I'll post your reply to
alt.comp.freeware which is often referred to by many freeware sites. I'll
leave it to their judgement to decide whether this constitutes nagware or
not. . .

Finally, consider this. There is already a small link for the pro version in
the upper right hand corner -- do you think an unannounced, delayed nag
banner that seriously interferes with the ease of use of the program will
prompt people to try your professional version?

Food for thought. . . Anyway thanks for the reply

M
<end quote>

 

[Susan Bugher]

<quote>
Just received their reply. It follows:

Hello Micahel,

I guess our definitions of a "nag screen" are
different. We believe that a nag screen is a dialog
box or window which interrupts use of the program and
requires you to take an action (press the cancel
button, etc.). What you are seeing are simply
advertisements, and these are quite common in many
leading freeware programs (ie. Eudora, etc).

Thanks,

Marty
FormBreeze Support
<end quote>

It's Adware per the ACF definition: "Adware: software that displays
advertising for other products and/or services (often downloaded from
the internet by the software)."

Is PageBreeze Adware with an obnoxious splash screen or Adware and Nagware?

ACF uses this definition of Nagware: "Nagware: has a popup (nag) screen,
asking you to purchase the software. You must press a button to get past
the nag screen." The test for Nagware is the need to push a button. Is
that required or does the splash screen eventually disappear without any
action on your part?

Splash sceens are not classified as "Nagware" - if necessary they're
called "nagging splash screen" or "splash screens with nags" with
additional description as needed. *Some* spash screens are truly odious
- but the behavior varies so much that we don't have a "ware type" for
them. Some splash screens appear only briefly, some authors give
instructions on how to disable them if desired. . .

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://google.ca/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Michael Laplante]

It's Adware per the ACF definition: "Adware: software that displays
advertising for other products and/or services (often downloaded from
the internet by the software)."

ACF uses this definition of Nagware: "Nagware: has a popup (nag) screen,
asking you to purchase the software. You must press a button to get past
the nag screen." The test for Nagware is the need to push a button. Is
that required or does the splash screen eventually disappear without any
action on your part?

In summary:
After an undetermined period of time / # of uses a large banner suddenly
appears as part of the interface, seriously reducing the ease of use of the
program. The banner can't be resized. Reducing the program's window size
causes the banner to take up proportionately more of the program's screen
real estate. The garish yellow banner has a link that whisks you away to the
website for the pro version of the program. The banner is topped by a button
that is labelled "Click Here to Get Rid of These Ads." For that reason, I
considered it nagware.

However, clicking on the button does not cause the ads to disappear. Instead
it whisks you away to the same website as the link WITHIN the banner. And
when you return to the program after viewing the site, the ads haven't
disappeared despite what the button says. So strictly speaking, according to
your definitions, then, yes, I guess it Adware that initially tricks you
into thinking it's nagware.

Furthermore, there is a separate hyperlink to the same damn webpage in the
upper right-hand corner of the program. These guys REALLY want you to buy
their pro version!

And nowhere in the program's description, or screenshots from the website,
is any of this made known. Here's what it looks like with banner:

http://www3.telus.net/public/tao55/pb/pagebreeze.jpg

Call it what you will but, after being an enthusiastic supporter of this
program I'm totally turned off it and I won't be recommending it to anyone.

M

 

[Susan Bugher]

In summary:
After an undetermined period of time / # of uses a large banner suddenly
appears as part of the interface, seriously reducing the ease of use of the
program. The banner can't be resized. Reducing the program's window size
causes the banner to take up proportionately more of the program's screen
real estate. The garish yellow banner has a link that whisks you away to the
website for the pro version of the program. The banner is topped by a button
that is labelled "Click Here to Get Rid of These Ads." For that reason, I
considered it nagware.

However, clicking on the button does not cause the ads to disappear. Instead
it whisks you away to the same website as the link WITHIN the banner. And
when you return to the program after viewing the site, the ads haven't
disappeared despite what the button says. So strictly speaking, according to
your definitions, then, yes, I guess it Adware that initially tricks you
into thinking it's nagware.

Furthermore, there is a separate hyperlink to the same damn webpage in the
upper right-hand corner of the program. These guys REALLY want you to buy
their pro version!

And nowhere in the program's description, or screenshots from the website,
is any of this made known. Here's what it looks like with banner:

http://www3.telus.net/public/tao55/pb/pagebreeze.jpg

Call it what you will but, after being an enthusiastic supporter of this
program I'm totally turned off it and I won't be recommending it to anyone.

Thank you for the additional info Michael. I applaud your initiative in
contacting sites that offer this app for download and alerting them.

I just read on old post about AceHTML 5 Freeware that had a similar
complaint about failure to make a full disclosure:

"It was plainly stated to be a freeware version and nowhere did I notice
on the web page ( http://freeware.acehtml.com/ ) the need to register
for a code. Neither was I asked any personal data upon clicking the
download link. Only after installing and trying to use the program for
the first time did I find out that I have to register for one. Annoyed,
I just typed nonsense and it let me in."

IMO it's helpful to have these "gottchas" noted. I've revised the ACF
program info description for PageBreeze as follows:

Program: PageBreeze
Author: FormBreeze.com
W: NR
Ware: (Adware) (Liteware)
http://www.pagebreeze.com/

NR is used for programs with hidden problems (in this case the delay
before the ads begin). The web page notes say: "NR = NOT RECOMMENDED
(search Google's archive of ACF posts for more information)"

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://google.ca/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[neilr]

And nowhere in the program's description, or screenshots from the website,
is any of this made known. Here's what it looks like with banner:

http://www3.telus.net/public/tao55/pb/pagebreeze.jpg

Call it what you will but, after being an enthusiastic supporter of this
program I'm totally turned off it and I won't be recommending it to
anyone.

Yep, I must agree - I found out about PageBreeze through this group and must
say I was highly impressed with it. Then the 'banner' appeared and rendered
it almost unusable, from an aesthetics point of view and also very
restrictive in reducing the code window area. Shame, as It was a splendid
piece of work.

Anybody care to recommend an alternative WYSIWYG editor?

N

 

[Michael Laplante]

Anybody care to recommend an alternative WYSIWYG editor?

Lots here like NVu, but it still goes wonky doing even some of the simplest
things. If you like the "switch between hand code & graphics" type, I'd go
for its more robust big brother Composer. (Unfortunately, it doesn't stand
alone but is packaged as part of Mozilla.) Trellian Webpage is another in
this category, but I've always had troubles with its Tables functions.

If you prefer the "one way" programs try Webdwarf, DHE Web Editor or the
Serif product. These all use proprietary formats then export to HTML when
you are done composing. I like and use Web Dwarf periodically and even paid
for the pro version. DHE is pretty good, Serif is good but limited to
simpler things code than the other two.

Finally, there are older ones that I found buggy or severely wanting.
Sublime, Selida,

Stay away from:

Amaya - not very intuitive, unwieldy interfave for web design

Web Builder. I'm loathe to knock any programmer who offers up his efforts as
freeware, however, this one is meant for people who know less-than-squat
about HTML. To achieve wysiwyg it one uses horrid tables-and-spacers "behind
the scenes" code. Call it "html for dummies."

M

 

[neilr]

Lots here like NVu, but it still goes wonky doing even some of the
simplest
things. If you like the "switch between hand code & graphics" type, I'd go
for its more robust big brother Composer. (Unfortunately, it doesn't stand
alone but is packaged as part of Mozilla.) Trellian Webpage is another in
this category, but I've always had troubles with its Tables functions.

If you prefer the "one way" programs try Webdwarf, DHE Web Editor or the
Serif product. These all use proprietary formats then export to HTML when
you are done composing. I like and use Web Dwarf periodically and even
paid
for the pro version. DHE is pretty good, Serif is good but limited to
simpler things code than the other two.

Finally, there are older ones that I found buggy or severely wanting.
Sublime, Selida,

Stay away from:

Amaya - not very intuitive, unwieldy interfave for web design

Web Builder. I'm loathe to knock any programmer who offers up his efforts
as
freeware, however, this one is meant for people who know less-than-squat
about HTML. To achieve wysiwyg it one uses horrid tables-and-spacers
"behind
the scenes" code. Call it "html for dummies."

Yea, out of all of the above I think DHE Web Editor is the only one I
haven't come across, so I'll take a look at it. Also although I've been
aware of it, I haven't actually tried Mozilla. Reason being that I think it
also (needs to) install the browser as well - could be wrong there though,
so I'll try it out as well.

What about FrontPage Express, is that still available? Just thinking out
loud - I'll Google for it. I must have found pretty much all of the free
ones out there, but PageBreeze did seem to come out tops - unfortunate that
it doesn't stand by their "no Adware" statement on the website.

Many thanks for the reply.

N

 

[Michael Laplante]

Also although I've been
aware of it, I haven't actually tried Mozilla. Reason being that I think it
also (needs to) install the browser as well

Yes, it's true you must install the whole suite.

What about FrontPage Express, is that still available?

Yeah, it's still around but getting very creaky. I still use it periodically
to slap together simple stuff or edit saved web pages.

M

 

[Mike Dee]

http://www3.telus.net/public/tao55/pb/pagebreeze.jpg

This program is no longer usable with this ugly banner.

Thank you for the link to the screenshot, Michael.