WYSIWYG HTML Editor re-visited.

[fitwell]

I say re-visited because although not be me, lots of entries have been
made re this issue but nothing good has come up. After trying several
listed in the ACF google archive I find that none of them really do
the job properly, so coming back here to see if anything has come down
the pike lately or if anyone knows how to fix something in Selida.

Selida 2 came the closest (http://www.amaryllis.8m.com/). Though I
really have to beg to differ that an HTML editor with preview is _not_
WYSIWYG, it's just a regular editor with a preview mode. Anyway, at
least having a preview open right on the same screen is a godsend over
regular editors. Arachnophilia has an internal browser feature that
does the same thing but you have to toggle to it all the time and back
again to make changes as the selection feature doesn't work properly
in the preview mode.

What is seriously wrong with Selida is that the silly thing de-selects
highlighted text after each and every single darn modification done on
the text. I mean, to give an example, one often does more than one
change to, say, a title on the html page - center, change font
attributes and then once you check out the preview and find you don't
like something, you need to finetune. So you need the selection to
remain until _you_ decide modification is complete. Arachnophilia
does keep the selection through all the changes till you manually
de-select so I know this type of thing is possible; it just can't do
it from the preview window and since preview has to be toggled to, one
is jumping back and forth like a Jack-in-the-Box! So, the fact that
the selection isn't dynamic to keep up with added coding in Selida 2
makes Selida _no_ good.

WebDwarf (http://www.virtualmechanics.com/products/dwarf/) was, to me
personally, a joke. Yes, might be WYSIWYG but holy jumping, so many
screens to pull up for every little task it's _not_ efficiently
WYSIWYG. I'll go back to hard-coding before I use that one.

All the others tried are not worth mentioning. Arachnophilia same or
better so no use changing as I like Arachno just fine for what I use
it for.

My main use for a WYSIWYG is for post-html production or to modify an
old saved file. I usually just want to do font attribute changes to
the latter like adding colour, changing size, and things like
justification, etc. For hard coding, I most often use Notepad but
when I have a long and tedious job or am building from scratch,
Arachnophilia, a favourite for years now, is my standard because it
highlights the code and I can see everything better than in notepad
(saves me typing all the code from scratch, too, so a big timesaver).
But new situations call for new solutions. Ever since I could convert
all my text files to html in batch format, just want to go back in and
quickly and easily make changes to the converted html. I'd had these
folders and folders of research in TXT format from info captured via
IE Text Archiver over last 2 years and more and now can convert to
html and then batch index via DIR2HTML. I have added 2 toolbars
beside my Quick Launch one on the taskbar and the second one is
precisely to access all these research index html files. Really great
and have maximized my computer through this one task alone like
nothing that has gone on before. But need to add formatting to those
index sheets that come from concatenated text files so that the task
of going through all the data is easier.

Anyhoo, what I liked about Selida, too though, is that if you press
Shift+Enter, it automatically types a <br> code. Things like that
make Selida 2 good enough for what I need _IF_ I could figure out how
to get it to NOT get rid of the selection around text after every
single change. I looked at the help file and made modifications in
the options screen, but nothing touched this serious glitch.

So if anyone knows how to do this or if they know of a _true_ WYSIWYG
html editor and not just one with a preview, pls advise. I've got a
very buggy system because I'm overdue for a wipe/reinstall and I'm
just corrupting things more by trying out all these apps that aren't
getting me anywhere at this stage.

(I had trouble with my new cable internet a few weeks back that called
for support from my ISP of just under 1 hour! So I've been
procrastinating doing the first wipe with new cable. I just have to
do it once, I know, but just too busy right not to do this.)

Thanks!

 

[El Gee]

I say re-visited because although not be me, lots of entries have been
made re this issue but nothing good has come up. After trying several
listed in the ACF google archive I find that none of them really do
the job properly, so coming back here to see if anything has come down
the pike lately or if anyone knows how to fix something in Selida.

<snip>

Dumb question....have you tried Frontpage Express or AOL Press? They
may not do exacting what you are looking for, but FPE does not do a bad
job of configuring a basic page and then you can use as text editor (if
you care) to get rid of the fluff. AOL Press does not understand
scripting.

Mozilla's WYSIWYG editor is not bad, but I do not use it.

Like yourself, I found Webdwarf and Selida not to my liking. You cannot
edit a pre-existing html file. Makes life hard for me.

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee

Did you hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac?
He would stay up late every night and wonder if there was a dog.
Remove yourhat to reply ... but it
may take a while. Best to go to www (dot) mistergeek (dot) com and
reply from there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Wald]

fitwell <[email protected]> wrote:

AOL Press does not understand scripting.

Do not install AOL Press, I did that once and you simply cannot
uninstall it. It leaves garbage all over the place.

Regards,
Wald

 

[Rob]

Do not install AOL Press, I did that once and you simply cannot
uninstall it. It leaves garbage all over the place.

Regards,
Wald

If you use Total Uninstall, there are no problems in getting rid of any
garbage that may be left over during a regular uninstall.

In my view, AOLPress is very easy to use and comes with a great tutorial.
Too bad that AOL stopped developing it. I would recommend giving AOLPress a
try.

But if you are concerned about garbage left over after a regular uninstall,
use Total Uninstall. (I use Total Uninstall when installing or
uninstalling ANY program on my PC! I never trust the uninstaller that comes
with the program to do their job properly)

Rob

 

[Rob]

What is seriously wrong with Selida is that the silly thing de-selects
highlighted text after each and every single darn modification done on
the text.

If you don't like a feature etc, you should tell the developer. Perhaps he
will implement your suggestion in your next release. (But that will never
happen if the develloper is unaware)

Rob

 

[mike ring]

Dumb question....have you tried Frontpage Express or AOL Press? They
may not do exacting what you are looking for, but FPE does not do a bad
job of configuring a basic page and then you can use as text editor (if
you care) to get rid of the fluff. AOL Press does not understand
scripting.

Mozilla's WYSIWYG editor is not bad, but I do not use it.

I don't think you're quite on fitwell's wavelength, he's looking for a
serious html editor that writes decent code.

I started with FPE, and I'm grateful for it, it got me going; I've also
tried AOLpress and an MVP on the micrsoft.win98 group helped me get rid
of it. Also Netscape Composer, whatever it's called now, was a good
starting prog.

None of these are anything like, say Dreamweaver, which I use, and we'd
dearly like a free version of.

mike r

 

[fitwell]

<snip>

Dumb question....have you tried Frontpage Express or AOL Press? They
may not do exacting what you are looking for, but FPE does not do a bad
job of configuring a basic page and then you can use as text editor (if
you care) to get rid of the fluff. AOL Press does not understand
scripting.

Oh, dear, I've not been clear. No, as far as I can tell, neither
would do the job I need. I tried Frontpage some time back and will
look at it again, but I'm not hopeful. AOL Press doesn't sound good.
Anything AOL doesn't agree with me.

Also, your comments lead me to believe they neither are WYSIWYG
anyway. Something I would have remembered about FPE, I'd think, if it
were. Anyway, it's not subtracting that's an issue, but adding.
Whenever I go to do simple things, I'm continuously frustrated at how
I'm taken back to pre-WYSIWYG word processor days. One of the reasons
why hardcoding in HTML was so easy for me to grasp is because it's
_exactly_ what we used to use years ago in the office. Day in, day
out for hours a day we worked at "hardcoding" documents until Win3x.
I started out on programs I no longer remember the name of but then a
couple of years into wordprocessing, we were using WP for DOS with all
that coding garbage. Worked on, what was it, 4.6 and then 5.0 and 5.1
over a period of about 2 years every single darn day! Then briefly
into Windows' v6 before jumping to WP8 (with a trip back into 7). We
sure were happy when WYSIWYG came out, let me tell you! But it means
exactly that, that what you see is what you get. I'm just really
wondering why all these html editors say they're WYSIWYG when they
absolutely are not, categorically! Are there any that are true
WYSIWYG, I wonder???????

Wordprocessors do this all the time now. They take user input and
translate into the necessary binary code. We're several steps away
from the process nowadays but the same things are going on now that
went on then, just that the commands are much easier to understand.
i.e., we hit the keys ^B and it will actually bold the text. In the
old days we'd have to actually type in before and after the text to
bold <b> and </b>, same as in hyptertext, and yet we still only see
<b>text here</b> and not the actual text with bolding unless you
toggle over to some preview mode If wordprocessors can be WYSIWYG for
font attributes and text formatting, I can't see why html editors
don't do the same. They're palming off WYSIWYG as what in the old
days eventually came up: at first there was no way to preview in some
of the older apps. Then, wow, lo and behold, we'd actually be able to
get at least a general idea of what the finished document would look
like. Not precise, but a guideline. That _WAS_NOT_ WYSIWYG, either.
Most of these so-called ones saying they are these days are just
glorified regular hard coding vehicles with a preview feature. Big
deal! False advertising to me.

Mozilla's WYSIWYG editor is not bad, but I do not use it.

Like yourself, I found Webdwarf and Selida not to my liking. You cannot
edit a pre-existing html file. Makes life hard for me.

Well, Selida does come close by having that preview window right there
and also, though I didn't look at all the commands, by pressing
shift+enter, it would actually type the code in _as_well_ as do the
actual hard return, iirc. That's an advance. I saw there was a place
in the options to change the referesh rate, iirc, so it does quite a
fair job if your refresh rate is high. The preview would show changes
immediately and changing attributes, etc., was easy enough. Select
text to modify and it dumps the code before and after in right place.
If only there was a way to get it to _stop_ that auto de-select. If
it didn't do that, I'd be quite happy with using it for superficial
editing of this kind.

 

[fitwell]

I don't think you're quite on fitwell's wavelength, he's looking for a
serious html editor that writes decent code.

Hi, Mike! Yes, these are just regular html editors afaik. For that, I
have Arachonophilia which generally does the job for me. Most of the
time I do touch ups in Notepad so in fact I use that more frequently.
But this new need requires quite major editing and re-formatting of
text, so a 100% WYSIWIG html editor would be of enormous help.

I started with FPE, and I'm grateful for it, it got me going; I've also
tried AOLpress and an MVP on the micrsoft.win98 group helped me get rid
of it. Also Netscape Composer, whatever it's called now, was a good
starting prog.

None of these are anything like, say Dreamweaver, which I use, and we'd
dearly like a free version of.

I'm coming to the conclusion that developers are misusing the term
WYSIWYG re html editors. They're mot. Most of the time they're just
regular editors with a preview option. Big deal. Since when was
_that_ ever termed WYSIWYG? Never! We had that for years between the
very old apps and ones that ran in Win3x (wordprocessors that is, that
use 99% of the same code as hyptertext).

Well, though Selida and Arachonophilia are both cumbersome for font
editing and text formatting, looks like I might not have a choice. I
have too many text>html converted files that need some work, to do it
all by hand <shudder>. I don't have that type of time to waste in
either short or long term.

Thanks all. I'll keep looking but I'm now not hopeful at all.

Cheers! D

 

[Tiger]

Thanks all. I'll keep looking but I'm now not hopeful at all.

Hi Fitwell,

Some time ago I downloaded a freeware version of Actual Drawing, which
is supposedly a freeware wysiwyg html editor. I installed it and read
the license and it is indeed freeware. The release they have on their
site now (www.pysoft.com) is shareware. I've not tried the version I
have installed, but if you want, I can post it to abf.

 

[mike ring]

Most of the
time I do touch ups in Notepad so in fact I use that more frequently.
But this new need requires quite major editing and re-formatting of
text, so a 100% WYSIWIG html editor would be of enormous help.

I know you're one of the hard a**** types who only use notepad ;o), but
have you thought of crimson editor; I find that just having the colour
coding helps enormously in sorting out text, tags and attributes?

mike r

 

[El Gee]

I know you're one of the hard a**** types who only use notepad ;o), but
have you thought of crimson editor; I find that just having the colour
coding helps enormously in sorting out text, tags and attributes?

mike r

Hmmm...

FPE is a WYSIWYG editor. It is acutally harder to do the raw code than it
is to do the WYSIWYG stuff (in FPE, that is!). I am not a fan of it by
any means, but if you need to do some MAJOR page editing, it works. It
works just like a word processor only it has a mode to view code, if you
care.

BTW, it also goes by the name expresso or espresso, I am not sure which.
Same proggie, different name.

Sorry I could not come up with anything to fit your needs.

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee

Did you hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac?
He would stay up late every night and wonder if there was a dog.
Remove yourhat to reply ... but it may take a while.
Best to go to www (dot) mistergeek (dot) com and reply from there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[JT]

I like TSW Webcoder although when out of the WYSIWYG mode there is no word
wrap which is a major bummer. WYSIWYG works well though.

 

[fitwell]

I know you're one of the hard a**** types who only use notepad ;o), but
have you thought of crimson editor; I find that just having the colour
coding helps enormously in sorting out text, tags and attributes?

Mike, I'm actually not. I end up using Notepad for speed but I'd be
_very_ never to have to hard-code again _at_all_. I thought that
would have been abundantly clear by this entire thread <g>. On the
contrary, I lived with hard-coding for too long in the office back in
the late 80s although granted it was document work and not webpages.
But same difference! Coding is so similar it's not funny. It's all
"yuck" and tedious beyond words!! D

Thanks for the tip re Crimson Editor but like I already mentioned,
Arachnophilia already does that for me and I use it when I'm not doing
a quick job or when I'm starting from scratch. It's an excellent html
editor and now that I have the stationery add-on, it's become even
more powerful for me.

No, I need 100% wysiwyg for the detail work re font attributes and
text formatting that are just becoming too much. They already were
more than one should have to handle, but now it's become a problem and
it shouldn't be. That's why we have computers after all to make this
type of task quicker and easier. A hard code purist? Ha! Thanks,
but, I've had enough fo that.

Cheers! D

 

[fitwell]

Hi Fitwell,

Some time ago I downloaded a freeware version of Actual Drawing, which
is supposedly a freeware wysiwyg html editor. I installed it and read
the license and it is indeed freeware. The release they have on their
site now (www.pysoft.com) is shareware. I've not tried the version I
have installed, but if you want, I can post it to abf.

Hey, Tiger! Thanks for responding. I hadn't seen you around in a
bit, a year now? But then, this last year and a half I had a
gruelling, demanding job so definitely was not here much. I'm on sick
leave/sabbatical though I must go back to work soon. Working on
eating right and that's helping, but it's tough. At least, I'm making
a lot of headway in all the issues that I hadn't been able to resolve.

Can you tell me, pls, what the name of the zip or exe file was that
you dl? I'll google and see what I can come up with re Actual
Drawing, but I'll have a greater chance of success if you can provide
the actual program name. One can often find older versions archived
somewhere else that way.

Thanks and nice hearing from you! D

 

[Tiger]

Hey, Tiger! Thanks for responding. I hadn't seen you around in a
bit, a year now? But then, this last year and a half I had a
gruelling, demanding job so definitely was not here much. I'm on
sick leave/sabbatical though I must go back to work soon. Working
on eating right and that's helping, but it's tough. At least, I'm
making a lot of headway in all the issues that I hadn't been able
to resolve.

Can you tell me, pls, what the name of the zip or exe file was
that you dl? I'll google and see what I can come up with re
Actual Drawing, but I'll have a greater chance of success if you
can provide the actual program name. One can often find older
versions archived somewhere else that way.

Here's the readme file:

Actual Drawing version 4.1 (Free Release)
for Windows 95/98/NT/ME/2000/XP
(C) 2002 PY Software, Inc.
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.pysoft.com

Description:
------------
Actual Drawing is a visual publishing tool that helps
you make Web Pages without having to know HTML, simply
by dragging and dropping page content.
Actual Drawing has own image manipulation tools that
you don't need to use a third party image editor.
You can add a shadow to an image or to a text block,
make it glow, draw it with opacity or as a transparent
image. Additional tools allows to Flip, Rotate, Resize,
Adjust Colors, Blur, Sharpen, Dilate, Erode or Emboss
any image.
The program makes custom buttons or images, which have
different look when user drags the mouse over them or
presses them.
A page background tool helps you to create as a simple
color background as a custom background with own text
strings, images and shapes.
Most powerful tool are containers with Actual Drawing
files, which help to build entire site from few elements.
The program converts all graphical content into web
compatible GIF or JPEG images.
In addition Actual Drawing has an FTP tool to publish
your site, table tools, tools to design form elements,
spell checker and much more.

System Requirements:
--------------------
Pentium(R) based IBM PC compatible computer (or higher);
32MB RAM;
20MB free disk space;
Microsoft Windows 95/98/NT/ME/2000/XP;
A mouse;
A color monitor with a 65536 colors card (or better);

Protection:
-----------
Distributed as freeware.

Installation:
-------------
Run ActualDrawingSetup.exe program and follow the instructions.

***********************************************************************
****
The program does not place any of parts in the Windows system
directories
and does not modified Windows libraries.
The program has no components that continue to run when the program is
not
running. The program doesn't leave any component after removing.
***********************************************************************
****

Starting:
---------
Start ActualDrawing.exe from Windows environment (by double click in
Windows Explorer for example).

Uninstallation:
-------------
1. Click the Start button
2. Click Settings
3. Click Control Panel
4. Double-click Add/Remove Programs
5. Select Actual Drawing and click the Add/Remove... button
6. Click the Yes button to confirm deletion

or manually
delete all files in the directory created for Actual Drawing
and delete the directory too.
Delete shortcut of Actual Drawing from your Startup group (folder).
Run REGEDIT.EXE program and delete key
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\PySoft\HTML_Edit
from the registry.

Distribution terms:
-------------------
Actual Drawing may be distributed freely in its original unmodified
and
unregistered form.

If you like to bundle Actual Drawing with other programs, goods,
services,
etc. you are selling in a registered form please feel free to contact
us
at: (e-mail address removed) to figure out the conditions.

If you would like to distribute Actual Drawing or other PY Software
products,
please contact (e-mail address removed)

Disclaimer of warranty:
-----------------------
This software is distributed "as is" and without warranties whether
expressed or
implied. Because of the various software and hardware environments
into
which this program may be put, no warranty of fitness for a particular
purpose is offered.

 

[Rob]

Anything AOL doesn't agree with me.

If only there was a way to get it to _stop_ that auto de-select. If
it didn't do that, I'd be quite happy with using it for superficial
editing of this kind.

Ask the developerr for the option to stop the auto de-select!

Rob

 

[fitwell]

Hmmm...

FPE is a WYSIWYG editor. It is acutally harder to do the raw code than it
is to do the WYSIWYG stuff (in FPE, that is!). I am not a fan of it by
any means, but if you need to do some MAJOR page editing, it works. It
works just like a word processor only it has a mode to view code, if you
care.

BTW, it also goes by the name expresso or espresso, I am not sure which.
Same proggie, different name.

Sorry I could not come up with anything to fit your needs.

No prob. I may, then, be confusing it with another app, which
wouldn't surprise me for all the ton of stuff I have to keep straight.
I'll take a look at it. I don't need a wysiwyg one for every type of
html editing job I do so maybe this one could be my big gun that I
bring out for the difficult jobs.

Thanks.

 

[Dennis Roark]

I like TSW Webcoder although when out of the WYSIWYG mode there is no
word wrap which is a major bummer. WYSIWYG works well though.

I have started using WebCoder 4 from tsware.net. It is freeware for
personal use and is both wysiwyg and tag orineted with good helps for
scripts. I have never seen it mentioned in this newsgroup, but it beats
the other editors I have found. I came across it at the Fabulous
Freeware site, http://fabfree.av-services.net/index.html
The selections there are not extensive, but he tries to find the few
best in each category.

--
Dennis Roark

(e-mail address removed)
Starting Points:
http://sio.midco.net/denro/www

 

[Wald]

If you use Total Uninstall, there are no problems in getting rid
of any garbage that may be left over during a regular uninstall.

I admit, I should have known about Total Uninstall before I installed
AOL Press.

Do you happen to have the list of registry/file modifications that
AOL Press performs on install? I would love to get it out of my
computer in a decent way...

Thanks in advance,
Wald

 

[fitwell]

I have started using WebCoder 4 from tsware.net. It is freeware for
personal use and is both wysiwyg and tag orineted with good helps for
scripts. I have never seen it mentioned in this newsgroup, but it beats

Thanks will take a look, esp. if a freeware for ActualDrawing can't be
found or it turns out to not do what the shareware version of AD does.

the other editors I have found. I came across it at the Fabulous
Freeware site, http://fabfree.av-services.net/index.html
The selections there are not extensive, but he tries to find the few
best in each category.

Great, another site to look at. I like that the apps there have been
vetted.