Problems with SP2

[Wildepad]

Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 (all other attempts corrupted the computer).

So, after removing the trackball, printer, etc. (so it was back to all
original equipment):

1) Complete disk recovery (including formatting) to return to only
factory programs and factory settings.

2) Deleted Weatherbug and Softex software using "add/remove programs"
(I know from experience that these will crash a Windows Update).

3) Used the set-up wizard for my dial-up.

4) Went to Windows Update and downloaded and installed the DirectX
update.

5) Went to HP website and downloaded and installed all hardware and
software updates.

6) Went to Windows Update and downloaded and installed all available
updates.

7) Repeated #6 (the first time through, it located 20 critical
updates, this time it located 9 more).

8) Checked that there are no BIOS updates.

9) Went to HP website and found no other updates (just double
checking).

10) Went to Window Update, checked and found no more updates.

11) Downloaded and installed SP2.

12) Used Windows Update to download and install another 6 updates that
weren't there before.

13) Checked Windows Update -- nothing new there.


Now up to this point, the _only_ things that I changed were deleting
two programs and setting up the dial-up -- _everything_ else was at
factory settings and as the updates changed it, and I had not opened
any e-mail or visited any site except HP and MS.

Problems:

A) I installed my word processor from the original CD. It seemed to
work fine until I ran the spell-check -- it ran, but crashed the
program when I tried to return to the document.

I tired every possible setting in the 'program compatibility wizard',
but they all had the same effect: the program will run fine until I do
a spell-check, at which time the program crashes (doing it _before_
the spell-check runs, while it crashes it _after_ when running
straight XP).

B) I installed my CAD program from the original CD. It seemed to work
fine until I went into 3-D mode. It imediately crashed the program.

Again, the 'program compatibility wizard' didn't help.

C) I installed my graphics program from the original CD. It seemed to
work fine until I went into the 'save file', at which time it crashed
(but it had been doing timed backups fine).

Again, the 'program compatibility wizard' didn't help.

NONE of these programs have any internet functions except a link to
their websites in the 'about' window (and the phone line is
disconnected whenever I'm not using it).

ALSO --

D) When the computer hibernates, the only way to get it out is to
unplug it, wait a minute, and plug it back in.

E) At boot, it has the 'password' window. I just hit 'enter', and it
goes away. I went into 'user accounts' in the 'control panel', set it
to use the welcome screen, and deleted a user account "ASD$$$" which
had come from nowhere.

At each reboot, it still wants a password, although one was never
entered, and no setting in 'user accounts' changes that.

F) .NET passport doesn't work, so I can't contact MS for tech support.


I've done the complete format drive to installing SP2 four times since
Tuesday (with slight variations in when I install the hardware updates
and optional updates from MS, and once from my original disks rather
than the recovery partition on the hard drive), and the results are
always exactly the same.

WHY?


Any help greatly appreciated!

 

[Guest]

Hello wildepad,
Sounds like you went by the book on this one. This may sound dumb
but did you check ?Microsoft for the min, system requirments? Do you have
enough RAM for XP, SP2, and, your programs? Hey it is a start. Users like
you make it so much easier to trouble shoot. Best of luck to you'
Ron J

 

[Wildepad]

Hello wildepad,
Sounds like you went by the book on this one. This may sound dumb
but did you check ?Microsoft for the min, system requirments? Do you have
enough RAM for XP, SP2, and, your programs? Hey it is a start. Users like
you make it so much easier to trouble shoot. Best of luck to you'
Ron J

Yeah, I did that (it's often so easy to bungle the small stuff,
which is what I figured I did here, but I did check that)

The odd thing is that the major program problems all crop up when
changing functions, times when the programs have to change the entire
screen/window.

 

[johnf]

True, wildepad said it ['in B/W' in par 1] -
" Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 - "all other attempts [Past tense] corrupted the computer"

Surely back then that would have been a warning signal that there was a
problem in the OS somewhere, rather than waffling on later with steps 1-5
[Current Sense].
(something about shutting the barn door....? - & probably learning how to do
a system clean-up first & homework on installing SP2?)

 

[johnf]

What exctly do you mean by "changing functions"?
Does that fall somehere between 1)-13), or (A) - (F)?

 

[Guest]

Hello Wild,
I read your steps at least 12 times. The things you describe all point to
spy\malware. I don't know how or where but it is the only thing that makes
sense.
Maybe some sort of code has ben placed in an update from HP or MS
..Microsoft will love me for that one. There is an epidemic of update problems
now. i recieve e-mail from ITTool Box>windows XP Pro groups. These guys are
not rookies and most of them know security like you know your way home from
work. I installed 5 sets of sP2 yesterday with no trouble what so ever.
Wild I have an idea, there is one thing you might try different. Install
and go only to MS Update site. Don't go to HP or anywhere else. Havew you
been getting the bits transfer OK? It is the very first update after you
install.Thats how I do it but I work with software very different from yours.
You could be having a hardware issue with XP or SP2. The great thing is your
machine is still in good shape by now 50% of the users would have torn
everything up so bad it is not worth it to try and help. Hang in there wild.
Oh I almost forgot...... what dial-up provider are you using? When I used
dial-up it was an 24 hour fight with spyware. Maybe if we started keeping
a list of who is having problems\ the net. connect they use etc. we can stop
some of this The bad guys don't want the good guys patched up. They loose!
Ron J

True, wildepad said it ['in B/W' in par 1] -
" Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 - "all other attempts [Past tense] corrupted the computer"

Surely back then that would have been a warning signal that there was a
problem in the OS somewhere, rather than waffling on later with steps 1-5
[Current Sense].
(something about shutting the barn door....? - & probably learning how to do
a system clean-up first & homework on installing SP2?)

--

johnf

Hello wildepad,
Sounds like you went by the book on this one. This may sound dumb
but did you check ?Microsoft for the min, system requirments? Do you
have enough RAM for XP, SP2, and, your programs? Hey it is a start.
Users like you make it so much easier to trouble shoot. Best of luck
to you' Ron J

 

[Wildepad]

What exctly do you mean by "changing functions"?
Does that fall somehere between 1)-13), or (A) - (F)?

A-C

For example -- in WordPerfect, I can enter and delete text, open and
close files, etc., but doing the spell-check brings up a new function,
an overlay which is configured separately from the main program.

Oh, I just realized I'd forgotten some details:
WinXP Home Edition
266 MHz Front Bus
512 MB Ram

 

[Wildepad]

True, wildepad said it ['in B/W' in par 1] -
" Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 - "all other attempts [Past tense] corrupted the computer"

Surely back then that would have been a warning signal that there was a
problem in the OS somewhere, rather than waffling on later with steps 1-5
[Current Sense].
(something about shutting the barn door....? - & probably learning how to do
a system clean-up first & homework on installing SP2?)

I install and remove software quite often, which leads to left-behind
files, stray registry entries, etc. which no clean-up is going to
completely eradicate.

When I tried to install SP2 before, I just let the automatic updates
handle it. It corrupted the computer beyond hope. I tried again by
doing a complete system restore, installing all the updates except for
SP2, installing and checking out all my apps, and then installing SP2.
It again corrupted the computer beyond all hope.

Since no one (not HP, MS, or anyone in this group) could/would lend
assistance, in the interest of getting back to using the computer
instead of fighting it, I simply did another complete system recovery
and installed the normal updates and my apps, leaving SP2 for some
later date.

That later date is now, so I tried a different approach -- from
absolutely clean slate, I installed SP2 _before_ installing any apps.


If you are capable of being helpful, perhaps you would like to point
out which step in the process was wrong . . .

 

[Wildepad]

Hello Wild,
I read your steps at least 12 times. The things you describe all point to
spy\malware. I don't know how or where but it is the only thing that makes
sense.

That's one reason I waited until I had a few days free to tackle this
-- I suspected something on the computer that neither my virus scans
nor spyware scans (I use three of each) were detecting, so thought it
would be best if I started with a clean slate.

Maybe some sort of code has ben placed in an update from HP or MS
.Microsoft will love me for that one. There is an epidemic of update problems
now. i recieve e-mail from ITTool Box>windows XP Pro groups. These guys are
not rookies and most of them know security like you know your way home from
work. I installed 5 sets of sP2 yesterday with no trouble what so ever.
Wild I have an idea, there is one thing you might try different. Install
and go only to MS Update site. Don't go to HP or anywhere else.

I did that during three of the four attempts since I had downloaded
the updates from the HP website and put them on a CD (to save myself
download time in the future). But I have to install those updates
before the computer will work under SP2 (the keyboard isn't
recognized, etc.).

Last night, for lack of anything logical to do, I downloaded the
updates again and checked them against what I had on CD (in case my
copies were corrupted), but they're exact matches.

Malicious code would have to be in the updates themselves, which I
discount because I think that if someone went to the trouble to hack
that deep, the problems would be obvious and immediate.

Havew you
been getting the bits transfer OK? It is the very first update after you
install.Thats how I do it but I work with software very different from yours.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but I never pay attention to what it's
downloading and installing -- I trust the Windows Update is picking
and choosing correctly (even installing updates for Outlook which I
never use).

I just click to install all updates, and sit back and read a book
until there's a screen that says the updates have been successfully
installed. To be honest, while I was a fair programmer in my day, my
day was pre-Windows, and I don't understand most of what it's doing.

You could be having a hardware issue with XP or SP2. The great thing is your
machine is still in good shape by now 50% of the users would have torn
everything up so bad it is not worth it to try and help.

My way of tearing things up is to start over from scratch,
reformatting drive C: and following the list again but doing some
little things differently (for example, installing DirectX first, then
the hardware updates one time, installing the hardware updates before
the DirectX the next time, etc.)

Hang in there wild.

Actually, I've given up. I have to get the computer running today, so
did a complete system recovery and installed my apps. I'm just
checking in here to see if someone had a revelation before I do the
Windows Update again, without installing SP2.

Oh I almost forgot...... what dial-up provider are you using? When I used
dial-up it was an 24 hour fight with spyware. Maybe if we started keeping
a list of who is having problems\ the net. connect they use etc. we can stop
some of this The bad guys don't want the good guys patched up. They loose!

I'm on newsguy right now, but I had many similar problems when I tried
several months ago to install SP2 (I thought this time might be
different because I was installing SP2, on a totally clean machine,
_before_ installing my apps), and I had a different ISP then.

I think that it's time to just concede that SP2 won't run on this
hardware.

Thanks many times over for your time and efforts!!

 

[Guest]

Excuse me, wild but I thought I was helping you. Sometimes there are no
quick fixes. I don't know what you are doing wrong. I had been trying to
figure it out You say no clean up can clean up your disc? How bad is it? Have
you used defrag ? Not clean up, defrag. I am sorry you felt no one helped
you. Good luck.
R

True, wildepad said it ['in B/W' in par 1] -

" Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 - "all other attempts [Past tense] corrupted the computer"

Surely back then that would have been a warning signal that there was a
problem in the OS somewhere, rather than waffling on later with steps 1-5
[Current Sense].
(something about shutting the barn door....? - & probably learning how to do
a system clean-up first & homework on installing SP2?)

I install and remove software quite often, which leads to left-behind
files, stray registry entries, etc. which no clean-up is going to
completely eradicate.

When I tried to install SP2 before, I just let the automatic updates
handle it. It corrupted the computer beyond hope. I tried again by
doing a complete system restore, installing all the updates except for
SP2, installing and checking out all my apps, and then installing SP2.
It again corrupted the computer beyond all hope.

Since no one (not HP, MS, or anyone in this group) could/would lend
assistance, in the interest of getting back to using the computer
instead of fighting it, I simply did another complete system recovery
and installed the normal updates and my apps, leaving SP2 for some
later date.

That later date is now, so I tried a different approach -- from
absolutely clean slate, I installed SP2 _before_ installing any apps.


If you are capable of being helpful, perhaps you would like to point
out which step in the process was wrong . . .

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Ron

Try not to take it to heart.. not all people are ungrateful..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

Excuse me, wild but I thought I was helping you. Sometimes there are no
quick fixes. I don't know what you are doing wrong. I had been trying to
figure it out You say no clean up can clean up your disc? How bad is it?
Have
you used defrag ? Not clean up, defrag. I am sorry you felt no one
helped
you. Good luck.
R

True, wildepad said it ['in B/W' in par 1] -
" Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 - "all other attempts [Past tense] corrupted the computer"

Surely back then that would have been a warning signal that there was a
problem in the OS somewhere, rather than waffling on later with steps
1-5
[Current Sense].
(something about shutting the barn door....? - & probably learning how
to do
a system clean-up first & homework on installing SP2?)

I install and remove software quite often, which leads to left-behind
files, stray registry entries, etc. which no clean-up is going to
completely eradicate.

When I tried to install SP2 before, I just let the automatic updates
handle it. It corrupted the computer beyond hope. I tried again by
doing a complete system restore, installing all the updates except for
SP2, installing and checking out all my apps, and then installing SP2.
It again corrupted the computer beyond all hope.

Since no one (not HP, MS, or anyone in this group) could/would lend
assistance, in the interest of getting back to using the computer
instead of fighting it, I simply did another complete system recovery
and installed the normal updates and my apps, leaving SP2 for some
later date.

That later date is now, so I tried a different approach -- from
absolutely clean slate, I installed SP2 _before_ installing any apps.


If you are capable of being helpful, perhaps you would like to point
out which step in the process was wrong . . .

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Wild

If you want to be careless about what you do with a machine 'in production',
then that is your call.. but when somebody tries to help you out of the mess
for which YOU are responsible, at least show courtesy and respect..

Re. your problem.. some makes of computer require patches available from the
manufacturer before SP2 can be installed.. regardless of any previous
contact you have had with HP, try them again for a patch..

Then go to this website.. http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm ..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

True, wildepad said it ['in B/W' in par 1] -
" Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 - "all other attempts [Past tense] corrupted the computer"

Surely back then that would have been a warning signal that there was a
problem in the OS somewhere, rather than waffling on later with steps 1-5
[Current Sense].
(something about shutting the barn door....? - & probably learning how to
do
a system clean-up first & homework on installing SP2?)

I install and remove software quite often, which leads to left-behind
files, stray registry entries, etc. which no clean-up is going to
completely eradicate.

When I tried to install SP2 before, I just let the automatic updates
handle it. It corrupted the computer beyond hope. I tried again by
doing a complete system restore, installing all the updates except for
SP2, installing and checking out all my apps, and then installing SP2.
It again corrupted the computer beyond all hope.

Since no one (not HP, MS, or anyone in this group) could/would lend
assistance, in the interest of getting back to using the computer
instead of fighting it, I simply did another complete system recovery
and installed the normal updates and my apps, leaving SP2 for some
later date.

That later date is now, so I tried a different approach -- from
absolutely clean slate, I installed SP2 _before_ installing any apps.


If you are capable of being helpful, perhaps you would like to point
out which step in the process was wrong . . .

 

[Wildepad]

Excuse me, wild but I thought I was helping you. Sometimes there are no
quick fixes. I don't know what you are doing wrong. I had been trying to
figure it out You say no clean up can clean up your disc? How bad is it? Have
you used defrag ? Not clean up, defrag. I am sorry you felt no one helped
you. Good luck.

That response was to "johnf", not to you -- you've been great.

As far as clean up and defrag -- I'll often use them, set a restore
point, and read how many bytes are on the hard disk before I install a
program. After using the program for a short while (usually 2-3
hours), I'll uninstall it, manually delete any folders it leaves
behind, run clean up and defrag, and run the restore point. Sometimes
there is still more on the disk that I started with. I know it ain't
supposed to be that way, but it occasionally is.

You multiply that by an average of five programs a week for several
months, and any system is going to have extraneous stuff lurking in
various niches.

I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding about who I was responding
too -- it was "johnf" who was making snide remarks instead of trying
to help.

You, on the other hand, were as helpful as possible, and I do
appreciate it.

Thanks again!

True, wildepad said it ['in B/W' in par 1] -
" Since it was time for a good disk cleaning, I figured I might as well
install SP2 - "all other attempts [Past tense] corrupted the computer"

Surely back then that would have been a warning signal that there was a
problem in the OS somewhere, rather than waffling on later with steps 1-5
[Current Sense].
(something about shutting the barn door....? - & probably learning how to do
a system clean-up first & homework on installing SP2?)

I install and remove software quite often, which leads to left-behind
files, stray registry entries, etc. which no clean-up is going to
completely eradicate.

When I tried to install SP2 before, I just let the automatic updates
handle it. It corrupted the computer beyond hope. I tried again by
doing a complete system restore, installing all the updates except for
SP2, installing and checking out all my apps, and then installing SP2.
It again corrupted the computer beyond all hope.

Since no one (not HP, MS, or anyone in this group) could/would lend
assistance, in the interest of getting back to using the computer
instead of fighting it, I simply did another complete system recovery
and installed the normal updates and my apps, leaving SP2 for some
later date.

That later date is now, so I tried a different approach -- from
absolutely clean slate, I installed SP2 _before_ installing any apps.


If you are capable of being helpful, perhaps you would like to point
out which step in the process was wrong . . .

 

[Wildepad]

Wild

If you want to be careless about what you do with a machine 'in production',
then that is your call..

Careless? I've installed the updates from HP and MS according to the
best available information from each on how to install updates, and
the computer doesn't work -- what's 'careless' about that?

but when somebody tries to help you out of the mess
for which YOU are responsible, at least show courtesy and respect..

Somehow the wires got crossed -- if you look at the thread, I
responded appropriately to the snide remarks of "johnf", and I
expressed appreciation to "Ron J" because, although there doesn't seem
to be a cure, he at least suggested some things and tried to help.

Re. your problem.. some makes of computer require patches available from the
manufacturer before SP2 can be installed.. regardless of any previous
contact you have had with HP, try them again for a patch..

There are several such updates, and I installed them (as noted in the
original post: points 5 and 9).

Then go to this website.. http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm ..

Except for the things that were unnecessary because I did a complete
system restore (format drive C: and return to factory installation), I
did all of that. in that order, except that I am forced by necessity
to download and install the SP2 through Windows Update.

I found four such checklists, some more complete than that
(specifically saying the order to install software and hardware
updates), and tried them all (I did a complete system recovery each
time, so absolutely nothing could carry through from one to the next).

Still no joy, and I have deadlines to meet, so can't play with it
anymore. I'll just have to live without SP2 until someone comes up
with a version that actually works on all HP computers that come with
WinXP (yeah, like that's going to happen).

Thanks for the comments, and sorry for the misunderstanding about who
I replied to re: "johnf" and "Ron J".

 

[Wildepad]

Ron

Try not to take it to heart.. not all people are ungrateful..

If you look at the thread, I was grateful to "Ron J" -- it was "johnf"
that I responded to as his post warranted.

 

[johnf]

Sorry, but I can't see any snide remarks that I've posted - they were
supposed to be helpful ones.
Basic rules (as far as I'm concerned), if you have a 'brandname' PC, never
try to do a major upgrade without completely checking their upgrades first.
When XP2 was first released (check back through the NGs) there were so many
problems with HP owners, as HP didn't bother to publicly release pre-fixes;
that eventually came weeks later.
That's why I said (in other words), thoroughly peruse the HP website & make
sure you are completely up to date.
What many people do not realise is that SP2 is not a patch or Hotfix - it's
a complete reconstruction of XP!

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Wild

I saw your retraction post to Ron J.. your original remark was just
unfortunately placed..

Re. HP and SP2, Dell and Compaq also had issues with SP2 that required
patches from both manufacturers.. I really don't know what they do to an OEM
install or any hardware that would require 'fixing' (shakes head)..

I wish you well, and hope that HP can get their act together for you..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Wildepad]

Sorry, but I can't see any snide remarks that I've posted - they were
supposed to be helpful ones.

How can saying something like:be considered anything but snide?

If you had taken the time to look at my original post, you would have
seen the steps I took to install it, which means I had to have
researched it carefully to know the process which is recommended by
HP, MS, and several widely accepted checklists.

System clean-ups don't always remove everything, and anyone who thinks
otherwise is living in a dream world. Doing a complete system purge,
formatting the drive and reinstalling the factory disks is the _only_
way to guarantee that a system is completely cleaned.

Basic rules (as far as I'm concerned), if you have a 'brandname' PC, never
try to do a major upgrade without completely checking their upgrades first.
When XP2 was first released (check back through the NGs) there were so many
problems with HP owners, as HP didn't bother to publicly release pre-fixes;
that eventually came weeks later.

If you had taken the time to look at my original post, you would have
seen that I installed the HP upgrades, and even checked for an updated
BIOS.

That's why I said (in other words), thoroughly peruse the HP website & make
sure you are completely up to date.

If you had taken the time to look at my original post, you would have
seen that I checked the HP website several times to ensure that all
upgrades had been installed.

What many people do not realise is that SP2 is not a patch or Hotfix - it's
a complete reconstruction of XP!

So? It should still be able to be downloaded and installed, especially
at this late date, without corrupting the system.

 

[Wildepad]

Wild

I saw your retraction post to Ron J.. your original remark was just
unfortunately placed..

Um, quibble, but it wasn't a retraction -- it was a clarification. If
you had looked at the attributes, you would have seen that there was a
regrettable misperception on Ron J's part.

Re. HP and SP2, Dell and Compaq also had issues with SP2 that required
patches from both manufacturers.. I really don't know what they do to an OEM
install or any hardware that would require 'fixing' (shakes head)..

Oh? You mean that everything MS puts out never needs a fix?

I wish you well, and hope that HP can get their act together for you..

It's on MS's end to produce something that can cross-platform.

I find it perversely amusing that when talking to someone else about
this, they mentioned that they've been unable to e-mail MS about their
own problems with SP2 because their .NET passport, which MS requires,
failed, just as mine did, leaving us out in the cold.

 

[johnf]

Good luck if you won't even debate any advice given.