problem

[Guest]

I just found out, I can no longer talk to anyone in the
united states to get technical support for any microsoft
product,even though I am in the united states, microsoft
and its support outsourcer convergys have closed the last
us tech support center in tucson arizona.

There are only a few sites in canada left and they are
scheduled to close soon, All the support for us customers
is now being done in india, I as most people in the us
cannot understand the thick indian accents.

Am I the only person who cares if they call microsoft for
support and cannot understand the people on the other end?

 

[Mark]

Microsoft does not care about its end user customers. That has been obvious for years. Microsoft make a horrible operating system only for third-party businesses to flourish. One prime example is viruses, spyware, trojans, etc. However, many Windows users continue to buy Microsoft products becuase its the most common.

Talking to outsourcing support reps that may know little as you or possibly a little more than you is not sufficient.

People like negative and bad things. When something bad happens, everyone looks. When something good occurs, it barely gets looked at. That is why Microsoft flourishes -- people like buying bad and flawed products.

This outsourcing is why Longhorn is taking so long to get done. Microsoft outsourced its programming to India. This was on the news recently when interviewing Bill Gates.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Purchase some Q-tips and carefully remove the ear wax in your ears.

Is there any reason why you cannot post an inquiry to one of the relevant
Microsoft newsgroups and await a reply?

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| I just found out, I can no longer talk to anyone in the
| united states to get technical support for any microsoft
| product,even though I am in the united states, microsoft
| and its support outsourcer convergys have closed the last
| us tech support center in tucson arizona.
|
| There are only a few sites in canada left and they are
| scheduled to close soon, All the support for us customers
| is now being done in india, I as most people in the us
| cannot understand the thick indian accents.
|
| Am I the only person who cares if they call microsoft for
| support and cannot understand the people on the other end?

 

[philo]

I just found out, I can no longer talk to anyone in the
united states to get technical support for any microsoft
product,even though I am in the united states, microsoft
and its support outsourcer convergys have closed the last
us tech support center in tucson arizona.

There are only a few sites in canada left and they are
scheduled to close soon, All the support for us customers
is now being done in india, I as most people in the us
cannot understand the thick indian accents.

Am I the only person who cares if they call microsoft for
support and cannot understand the people on the other end?

Anyone i've ever spoken to from India had quite understandable English...
however as with most tech support...they do little more than read off
a very limited check list...
so even if you understood them...
there would be nothing much to gain anyway.
if you really want to get good help...
simply post your problem on usenet...including all the exact details...

BTW: use google first! Chances are your problem has been discussed and
solved many times over!

 

[Guest]

Hi ... I am not racism at all and , I agree with you , If microsoft is
sending out there tech support call in center to another country that there
native language isn't English , Then Microsoft should at least provide tech
support people that can clearly speak the English language , Whats the point
if you can not understand the tech support person if he/she has a heavy
accents ? Maybe a MVP can send this off to Microsoft and , Hopefully
Microsoft can resolve this matter , We need to understand ...

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Mark

You should get a job writing 'propaganda'.. while the world and his dog
recognises that there is generally not an ounce of truth in that kind of
written or spoken word, I feel sure that you would get a standing ovation
from your audience of 'closet' idiots..

You must learn to assess the 'global' pcture.. only then can you provide a
solution that might work.. and don't think for one minute that others have
not given time to the problems of how to fund something that is essentially
non-productive but continues to be a necessary evil..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user







Microsoft does not care about its end user customers. That has been obvious
for years. Microsoft make a horrible operating system only for third-party
businesses to flourish. One prime example is viruses, spyware, trojans,
etc. However, many Windows users continue to buy Microsoft products becuase
its the most common.

Talking to outsourcing support reps that may know little as you or possibly
a little more than you is not sufficient.

People like negative and bad things. When something bad happens, everyone
looks. When something good occurs, it barely gets looked at. That is why
Microsoft flourishes -- people like buying bad and flawed products.

This outsourcing is why Longhorn is taking so long to get done. Microsoft
outsourced its programming to India. This was on the news recently when
interviewing Bill Gates.

 

[Steve N.]

Hi ... I am not racism at all and , I agree with you , If microsoft is
sending out there tech support call in center to another country that there
native language isn't English , Then Microsoft should at least provide tech
support people that can clearly speak the English language , Whats the point
if you can not understand the tech support person if he/she has a heavy
accents ? Maybe a MVP can send this off to Microsoft and , Hopefully
Microsoft can resolve this matter , We need to understand ...

I've talked with many Indians over the years and they all spoke better
English than most North Americans.

Steve

 

[Guest]

What a crock of crapola all you MS-MVP's are talking about. And if you think
that most of those MS tech's from India talk better than most americans, you
are from a different planet !! The fact is that "Out Sourcing" for Microsoft,
Dell and the rest of them is strickly for MONEY !!!. I think I know as I have
a friend that IS in India helping some of the tech's and even HE has a hard
time getting them to understand and has a hard time understanding most of
them also. And the pay for the tech's there is so far under what they would
have to pay a good college grad tech from the US, it rediculous.

Don't get me wrong, I use MS products because even after all of their holes,
I have learned to skirt most of the problems by getting help from groups like
this. It just is very annoying that so many of the replies one gets from this
group for a particular problem is not even close.

Maybe if everyone had one of those "read line for line" books that the
tech's from India have you would be as far ahead as calling them. And who
ever thinks the tech's in india have good English haven't called one of them
lately.

"OUT SOURCING"---If you think that is good for the good old USA, you need to
move out of the country, as your head is in the hole in the sand !!

Redwagon.....

 

[Mark]

There are some alternative solutions available, but they continue to get bullied by Microsoft. For those that remain in the closet and blinded by Microsoft's monopolistic practices and monoculturism, there is another side of the planet from the dark side.

I always find Most Varied Practices common in MS.

No matter what we monoculturians write or verbalize, it all remains the same; the greater to the businesses.

 

[Mark]

Carey Frisch does indeed bring up a good point and gesture to find solutions or answers to problems. Posting messages to one of the many newsgroups to possibly find workarounds, solutions, answers, and more information.

Over the past year or so I noticed Microsoft emphasizing on their web site to use newsgroups to obtain support. This lowers Microsoft's overlal support costs, however, monoculturians that do seek out for help may find a better answer and more information without paying less for some overpriced M$ products.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

So put your money where your mouth is and start a helpdesk, offer your
services to Microsoft, and give the American people what you think they
deserve.. and when you ask for money to cover the cost of any advice given,
don't expect clean suggestions from all of them..

US citizens want something for nothing and are no different to anybody else
in that respect, but in this life, we get what we are prepared to pay for..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Guest]

Hey "Piece" Mike---First--I'm not the only one that thinks "Out Sourcing"
American jobs is a good idea. That happens to be my personal opinion, which
may be different than yours. Second: I have contacted Microsoft on several
occasions because of a pretty difficult problem I had, and got a tech from
India. Now I think I am about a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10 as far as MS Win XP,
MS 2000, Win98 & 95 are concerned and after talking to the other techs from
India I very soon found out that I was way ahead of them from the "gi-go" let
alone trying to understand their broken type English. I very politely asked
them to slow down their speech and that did help a little.

Third: When I read a persons post on this group, it doesn't take to much
assuming to figure out how much they know generally, after asking them just a
few questions in a reply post. For that reason and for those persons, I just
personally think it would be better to give them a very direct possible
solution rather than have them go into the operating system and try and do
all these more complicated things that come pretty easy for you and a lot of
others. I feel that in most instances that just gets them in more trouble.

No hard feelings Mike. I have read many of your post on this group and have
found you to be extremely helpful. I just got a little frustrated about the
"Out Sourcing" deal (And I think that's my American right) and still feel
like Microsoft could screen their help in India a little better so that guys
like me and the one that started this particular post could under stand them
better. AND----Do something better about the "pat" answers they usually give
out.

Cheers, and keep up your good work. I just "WISH" I had enough $$$ to start
a helpdesk web site (Here in the good old USA) as you so suggested. But for
the time being I will just have to sign in on news groups like this one and
hopefully learn more and very possibly be able to help someone at the same
time.

Redwagon.....

 

[JL]

Microsoft does not care about its end user customers. That has been
obvious for years. Microsoft make a horrible operating system only for
third-party businesses to flourish. One prime example is viruses,
spyware, trojans, etc. However, many Windows users continue to buy
Microsoft products becuase its the most common.

Dude, you talk the talk but you don't walk the walk.

In other words, if you hate Microsoft so much, why are you using its
products? Why don't you install Linux or buy a Mac?

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

RedWagon

Outsourcing support is a difficult issue all around.. I agree that
conversing with somebody whose first language is not English is not always
easy.. on top of that there are bound to be problems with cultural
differences in as much as their responses to each other could be
misinterpreted by somebody from another culture.. an example, albeit a
simple one, is the difference between a New Yorker, who on answering a phone
call might respond with the exchange and number that is being called, Plaza
579 for instance, where somebody in Madrid, Spain would use the Spanish
equivalent of 'talk to me'..

The cost consideration is also difficult.. Microsoft is the manufacturer and
vendor of over 80 products that are sold globally.. the support and
resources that make these products what they are is the sum total of a
considerable range of ideas and talents that could not realistically be
recruited just from Redmond, Wa or from the entire US continent.. all of the
product line is produced in many languages.. computer users expect new
versions like they expect a new Mustang model every year, and it had better
be worth it or people get mad and stomp their feet..

If you were to go around all of the departments in all of the countries, you
would be left wondering how they manage to produce stuff so cheap!!!!! Take
into account also that nearly half the world are maybe using pirated
versions, and that Microsoft get nothing off these users at all, and you
could end up feeling sorry for them..

In any manufacturing industry, cost of the product to the customer is
determined by adding up all of the production costs initially, adding some
on to cover for the inevitable increase in cost of materials bought in from
outside the company for the goods to be made after the initial batch, and
then setting a price on the basis that at least xxxx thousand units will be
sold.. it is a minefield.. supposing that when Lomghorn is released some
time next year, most refuse to upgrade immediately.. no sales, no pay, no
more R&D, thousands being laid off work, no support structure.. nothing..
Microsoft reserves will have to keep the show going until sales are made..
and those reserves will have to be built up again for the next time..

So, why is support being outsourced?.. essentially because it is a necessary
evil that doesn't contribute to manufacturing at all.. it is a money drain..
one also has to consider that the company in India or wherever, has given
Microsoft a service level agreement to which they may not always adhere..
this is the point at which Microsoft customers seeking support will suffer
and duly complain as is their right.. but Microsoft are also victims if the
service level agreement is short changed..

I could as easily be talking about General Motors, who are in dire straights
presently.. very sad..

The simple answer is that we all expect too much for too little..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Plato]

Outsourcing support is a difficult issue all around.. I agree that

Back in '95 I recall reading an article that said big name pc makers
spend about 1/3rd of their labor budget on support. Also back then a
P-233 from a big brand would cost you about $2,500 and I recall building
many of them also where we had a gross profit of between $500 and $700
per unit. Prices and profit were good. Then the $500 pc was born a few
years later and the real price wars started. My guess is that the big
name makers couldn't exist in this time/age without lowering their cost
of support, especially with all the time spent rebooting these new
fangled modern machines in the course of trying to fix a problem. Now
how about this, all the parts are made in asia. Why not have the entire
pc assembled there and just drop shipped? Dell simply becomes a sales
and contract management office. Heck, Airbus just tested its new 850
passenger jet, and of course it will come in freight versions as well
for UPS etc. PCs can be assembled and in the US within 12 hours of
ordering.

 

[Bob Burns]

Hey, you guys, let's get real.

MS is in the business of making money. Selling software is the way they do
that. They do it very well, too. Profit is not a dirty word.

Yes, they are a near-monoply. Why? Because no-one else can do what they do
and make a profit.

No guns are held to heads to force us to buy MS software.

India speaks English, but not the same English we do. (Nor does, for
example, Scotland.) Conflict? Yes. If you don't like it, start your own
for-profit support center and make a fortune.

 

[Alias]

Hey, you guys, let's get real.

We *are* real.

MS is in the business of making money.

So's the Mafia.

Selling software is the way they do that. They do it very well, too.
Profit is not a dirty word.

It is when you rip people off.

Yes, they are a near-monoply. Why? Because no-one else can do what they
do and make a profit.

Monopolistic highway robbery is profitable, I agree.

No guns are held to heads to force us to buy MS software.

Not guns, no. The *monopoly* forces us.

India speaks English, but not the same English we do.

Um, English is NOT the native language of the folks in India.

(Nor does, for example, Scotland.)

The people in Scotland speak Scottish, not English, mate.

Conflict? Yes. If you don't like it, start your own for-profit support
center and make a fortune.

Or get support from someone that has English as their first language.

Alias

 

[Guest]

I agree Microsoft is getting rip off from privacy user's but , If you expect
me to feel sorry for a company that is making million of million of dollars
for there share holders and even Bill Gates himself is worth how much ? last
time I heard this guy has millions and what , Microsoft can't come out with a
better way to provide tech support for there legitimate customers , then
there is something wrong with the system , The way I see is we live in a
system that is run by greed and corruption , the more money they make , the
stronger greed and corruption become , We as honest good hearted people can
only do is learn to live with it until that big day comes when it will all
fall apart and believe me it will fall apart , What really counts is , what
side of the fence will you be on ?

 

[Steve N.]

What a crock of crapola all you MS-MVP's are talking about.

I'm not an MVP.

And if you think
that most of those MS tech's from India talk better than most americans, you
are from a different planet !!

I've been lucky to have known well educated Indians I guess.

The fact is that "Out Sourcing" for Microsoft,
Dell and the rest of them is strickly for MONEY !!!. I think I know as I have
a friend that IS in India helping some of the tech's and even HE has a hard
time getting them to understand and has a hard time understanding most of
them also. And the pay for the tech's there is so far under what they would
have to pay a good college grad tech from the US, it rediculous.

I don't like outsourcing to foriegn countries either. AllI said was the
Indians I've talked with in person and on the phone spoke excellent English.

Don't get me wrong, I use MS products because even after all of their holes,
I have learned to skirt most of the problems by getting help from groups like
this. It just is very annoying that so many of the replies one gets from this
group for a particular problem is not even close.

That is both the beauty and drawback of a peer support group. You get
all kinds of responses. You've got to learn who to trust. Unfortunately
it's frequently not just a simple matter of posting a question and
getting an immediate right answer.

Maybe if everyone had one of those "read line for line" books that the
tech's from India have you would be as far ahead as calling them. And who
ever thinks the tech's in india have good English haven't called one of them
lately.

"OUT SOURCING"---If you think that is good for the good old USA, you need to
move out of the country, as your head is in the hole in the sand !!

Redwagon.....

I've spent a great deal of time out of the US in my time. I don't
disagree in principle with you but you really overreacted here RW.

Steve

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

You have to know how business and commerce work.. no business owner can sell
a product and just put the money in a vault.. that is not how it works..

There is this simplistic view around that companies making millions keep it
all for themselves.. without shareholders, how long do you think that
companies like Microsoft would survive.. they are not selling fizzy drinks
from a makeshift stand in the front yard on a bright summer day.. they have
a responsibility to the staff, the shareholders, the customers, all who have
invested cash into the service.. buildings and machinery have to
maintained.. all kinds of overheads are incurred.. the same goes for any
company..

If anybody wants to see Microsoft go down, then let them make sure that all
American employees have another job to go to.. preferably a job that pays
the same so that they won't have to do the un-American thing and drop their
living standards.. remember also all of the computer users who would get no
support at all.. there would be no MS newsgroups anymore, because there
would be nobody to maintain them and the hosting servers would be gone.. the
impact on US society would be catastrophic.. it would spread globally and if
you don't think that what happens across the other side of the world affects
you, then you need to get your head out of wherever you keep it.. the US is
as reliant on the rest of the world as much as anybody, whether you like it
or not..

Bill Gates gives millions to charity, promotes education in schools, works
with other industry to give people a better life.. of course, he is out to
make money.. aren't we all?what a Windows user at home sees is but a drop in
the ocean.. sit in front of your high definition TV and avoid any
educational programmes if you will, but the technology that keeps you amused
is tied in with the technology that Microsoft is part..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user