Problem Vista 62-bit and Pixma IP 4500 persist

[A.Translator]

Some weeks ago I posted my problem on this forum and got a reply from
Cori that I thought had sorted things out.

But the problem is back.
This is what happens: my new Canon Pixma IP4500 printer works fine with
my Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit desktop *for a while*. For no
apparent reason though, it suddenly starts printing only a few lines of
text or nothing at all. The status then switches to 'offline'.

When I close pc and printer down, unplug and reconnect the usb cable,
and then start Windows up again, with the printer on, all is honkey
dorey - for as long as it lasts.

(There is nothing wrong with the printer itself as it works just fine
with my laptop using the same cable. The pc is new: no other printer
has ever been installed on it).

Canon cannot reproduce the problem, so I am stuck.

If only there was some consistency in when the problem occurs! It seems
to be totally random, though.

Can some please try to help again? Thanks.

 

[Jerry1111]

Some weeks ago I posted my problem on this forum and got a reply from
Cori that I thought had sorted things out.

But the problem is back.
This is what happens: my new Canon Pixma IP4500 printer works fine with
my Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit desktop *for a while*. For no
apparent reason though, it suddenly starts printing only a few lines of
text or nothing at all. The status then switches to 'offline'.

When I close pc and printer down, unplug and reconnect the usb cable,
and then start Windows up again, with the printer on, all is honkey
dorey - for as long as it lasts.

(There is nothing wrong with the printer itself as it works just fine
with my laptop using the same cable.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That doesn't mean that the cable is OK. Check with another (preferably
short) cable. Been there ;-)

 

[A.Translator]

That doesn't mean that the cable is OK. Check with another

(preferably short) cable. Been there

It is a comfort to know you've been there! I do have a relative long
cable, but it does work with the laptop. It is a new Belkin cable, 6
feet long.

Are you saying this really could be the problem? I am reluctant to buy
another one on the off chance. I also don't have room closer to my
desktop.

 

[Jerry1111]

It is a comfort to know you've been there!

My pleasure ;-)

I do have a relative long
cable, but it does work with the laptop.

As I said - it doesn't matter. You only know that the cable works with
your laptop, that knowlegde doesn't extend to your PC.
Another way to try - get 2nd HDD, install same OS, same drivers and
check if it still works. If it doesn't work with freshly installed
windows, then you know the answer.

Also it might be something else, the cable might be OK after all.
Try to change something (f.e. add an USB hub between PC and printer) and
see if there are changes in behaviou. Maybe try different USB ports in
your PC (preferably ports directly from motherboard rather than ports
placed in convenient locations in front of the PC case).

It is a new Belkin cable, 6
feet long.

Are you saying this really could be the problem?

Without being able to measure it? I just don't know.

I am reluctant to buy
another one on the off chance.

You don't have to. It can be tracked down using other means. Me, having
plenty of USB cables around... just the easiest solution for me.

I also don't have room closer to my
desktop.

USB hub? But make sure that everything else works before buying it.

 

[Jerry1111]

You can also try to unplug USB cable when the printer goes wrong, wait
~30s and connect it again. See if it starts working. If not - might not
be the cable.

 

[measekite]

You can also try to unplug USB cable when the printer goes wrong, wait
~30s and connect it again. See if it starts working. If not - might not
be the cable.

You should try the printer and cable (if possible) with XP or a real OS
like any distro of Linux.

Vista is not a very good OS as proven by the marketplace. Few individuals
actually go out and buy an upgrade copy and fewer corporations have
adopted it which is why Microsoft is in a rush to get Win7 out the door.

Most individuals who use Vista bought it installed on their new computer.

 

[A.Translator]

You can also try to unplug USB cable when the printer goes wrong,

wait ~30s and connect it again. See if it starts working. If not -
might not be the cable.

That did happen, once, and the printer then spat out the document I had
been trying to print for ten minutes... But it went wrong again the
next day.

It is só unlikely that the fault is in the printer itself: Canon sent
me a replacement. Unfortunately it has exactly the same quirks as the
one it replaced, but I cannot believe I got two printers with the same
fault. I understand the 4500 to be a very popular model which works for
most people, so two duds seem unlikely.

You suggest using a hub, but wouldn't that introduce another weak link
in the chain?

I work at home as a translator and I do not have all sorts of cables,
harddisks and OS's laying around the place.

Can you remember what fixed it for you? I know that won't necessarily
help me, but it would give me an idea. I will go out and buy a cable,
though.

There seems to be a long time before the printer responds, and
sometimes things inside it start moving out of the blue. Does this tell
you anything?

Thanks for all your tips.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

This may be a USB port or cable issue or a problem with the USB drivers
or chips on the mainboard. It could be a bad ground, bad solder
connection on the mainboard or on the USB port(s), or the internal cable
from the mainboard to the USB ports, if such a cable is used. Any kind
of bad connection with the USB chain can cause a loss of data stream
since USB is hot swapable, if it disconnects or becomes intermittent,
the data stream can get cut off.

I would try a different USB port on the same computer, if possible. If
you are using the USB ports on the back of the computer try one on the
front, or vice versa.

If the hardware seems to check out, the software may be the next step.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[A.Translator]

I would try a different USB port on the same computer, if possible.

If you are using the USB ports on the back of the computer try one on
the front, or vice versa.

I had tried a different usb port, but now understand that it probably
indeed is a grounding issue.

Thank you all! Finally getting there.

 

[Jerry1111]

I had tried a different usb port,

Any change?

but now understand that it probably
indeed is a grounding issue.

Wouldn't be so sure. USB cables are shielded (it's a bit different than
grounding). Bad (or broken) shield may affect signal integrity, similar
things could happen with badly designed grounding (might not be possible
- don't know the schematic diagram of ip4500).

Small chance (depending on power system in your country and/or house) -
try to make sure that all devices are powered from the same wall socket
(by using extension lead).

 

[pheeh.zero]

Some weeks ago I posted my problem on this forum and got a reply from
Cori that I thought had sorted things out.

But the problem is back.
This is what happens: my new Canon Pixma IP4500 printer works fine with
my Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit desktop *for a while*. For no
apparent reason though, it suddenly starts printing only a few lines of
text or nothing at all. The status then switches to 'offline'.

When I close pc and printer down, unplug and reconnect the usb cable,
and then start Windows up again, with the printer on, all is honkey
dorey - for as long as it lasts.

(There is nothing wrong with the printer itself as it works just fine
with my laptop using the same cable. The pc is new: no other printer
has ever been installed on it).

Canon cannot reproduce the problem, so I am stuck.

If only there was some consistency in when the problem occurs! It seems
to be totally random, though.

Can some please try to help again? Thanks.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Try to figure out, at the time it messes up, if you are running a
specific program or application, or other peripheral at the same time.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[A.Translator]

Any change?

Wouldn't be so sure. USB cables are shielded (it's a bit different
than grounding). Bad (or broken) shield may affect signal integrity,
similar things could happen with badly designed grounding (might not
be possible - don't know the schematic diagram of ip4500).

Small chance (depending on power system in your country and/or house)
- try to make sure that all devices are powered from the same wall
socket (by using extension lead).

(Sorry for late response)

- changing usb ports does not make a difference
- I don't think any software is to blame as the problem occurs with
just the minimal on: windows and a browser

What helps is: shutting down pc, pulling usb cable out and back in,
restarting pc with printer turned on. Does this indicate a grounding
problem? I don't want to have to do all this everytime I need to print,
so I am looking at having an earthed power point put it. (I live in an
old house, in Europe, and have only a few earthed power points.)

 

[A.Translator]

Battery backed UPS aren't expensive and should improve the

quality of the utility power supply from the wall socket.
Some are always on, others cut in if the supply browns out.
The always on are preferable, but I've had no problems
with the ones that protect against brown out. Power goes
off PC carries on.

The power supply is fine, there are no cut offs. The way I phrased my
message may have made you believe I was somewhere in the back of the
woods, but in fact I am in the centre of Amsterdam.

The house is old, though, and originally did not have electricity. When
electricity was put in, it was not thought necesssary to have earthed
power points all over the place. We have them only in the kitchen and
the bathroom. My work room has two power points that are not earthed.

The real solution would probably be to have a properly earthed power
point put in, but I am told this is rather expensive.

Thanks for responding, though.

 

[Warren Block]

The house is old, though, and originally did not have electricity. When
electricity was put in, it was not thought necesssary to have earthed
power points all over the place. We have them only in the kitchen and
the bathroom. My work room has two power points that are not earthed.

But are the computer and printer connected to the same outlet? If not,
that's when you might suspect different grounds.

If the printer is on a different outlet than the computer, and you plug
the notebook into that same outlet, that might explain the problem:
notebook/printer works, desktop/printer does not.

 

[Jerry1111]

(Sorry for late response)

No problem - I'm late as well ;-(

- changing usb ports does not make a difference
- I don't think any software is to blame as the problem occurs with
just the minimal on: windows and a browser

What helps is: shutting down pc, pulling usb cable out and back in,
restarting pc with printer turned on.

Do you have to switch your PC off and on again? Just reconnecting the
printer to another USB port doesn't help?

What helps is: shutting down pc, pulling usb cable out and back in,
restarting pc with printer turned on. Does this indicate a grounding
problem?

If the only way to start printing again is to restart Windows (do you
just have to restart Windows or switch the PC off and back on again?)
then it might be software related. Really difficult to guess without 5
minutes 'hands-on'.

I don't want to have to do all this everytime I need to print,
so I am looking at having an earthed power point put it. (I live in an
old house, in Europe, and have only a few earthed power points.)

If you plug the PC and printer to the same extension and have no other
things connected to your PC (ethernet, broadband modem, TV, speakers,
another printer etc) then there is no need for proper earth connection
to do the test.

 

[A.Translator]

If the printer is on a different outlet than the computer, and you

plug
the notebook into that same outlet, that might explain the problem:
notebook/printer works, desktop/printer does not.

Outlet is what I would call a power point, or socket?

I'll look into that. I think the printer at the moment is plugged into
a different power point. It is all quite messy, with lots of cables and
extension blocks.

 

[A.Translator]

No problem - I'm late as well ;-(
Thanks.

with > just the minimal on: windows and a browser
in, > restarting pc with printer turned on.

Do you have to switch your PC off and on again? Just reconnecting the
printer to another USB port doesn't help?

Just reconnecting the usb cable to a different port makes no
difference. I have to switch the pc off all together.

If the only way to start printing again is to restart Windows (do you
just have to restart Windows or switch the PC off and back on again?)
then it might be software related. Really difficult to guess without
5 minutes 'hands-on'.

I appreciate it is impossible for you to make an educated guess.
I am sorry, but what is the difference between sitching on the PC and
just switching on Windows again? What I have done, and works, is
shutting off Windows all together ( Start > shut down), wait a couple
of minutes, unplug the usb cable and put it in again, and then start up
the PC / windows up. Then the printer works, for as long as it lasts.

If you plug the PC and printer to the same extension and have no
other things connected to your PC (ethernet, broadband modem, TV,
speakers, another printer etc) then there is no need for proper
earth connection to do the test.

I will try that tomorrow ( it is late here).
Not much is connected to the pc though, just a broadband modem. No TV,
speakers, or other stuff. (well, as I type this, I realise, there is a
scanner, but that is not switched on).

Thanks for your patience, Jerry.

 

[emailaddress]

Outlet is what I would call a power point, or socket?

I'll look into that. I think the printer at the moment is plugged into
a different power point. It is all quite messy, with lots of cables and
extension blocks.

What type of power supply does the printer use? It's possible the
printer DC ground is floating, not common to the AC common or ground
outlet pin. If it's floating, it wouldn't be an issue of not having
grounded outlets, nor one of having the two pieces of equipment
plugged into different outlets.

Once you plug that USB cable between the two pieces of equipment, that
establishes the same ground level between each. The USB cable
connector metal shell, as well as the USB sockets, are grounds.

What seems most likely is the combination of Vista, and a buggy
printer driver which is not handling wakeup from low powered, sleep,
mode correctly. You might try a newer version, or older, of the
driver if one exists. You might try uninstalling and reinstalling the
driver. You might try a clean testbed installation of Vista, or
another OS temporarily just to test whether the same problem remains.
If the printer has a setting that prevents it from going into a lower
power mode, you might temporarily set that too, though it would waste
power if it's the necessary resolution... at least not as wasteful as
when the printer is a laser that would reheat the fuser and runs a
more elaborate mainboard consuming more power.

 

[emailaddress]

Some weeks ago I posted my problem on this forum and got a reply from
Cori that I thought had sorted things out.

But the problem is back.
This is what happens: my new Canon Pixma IP4500 printer works fine with
my Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit desktop *for a while*. For no
apparent reason though, it suddenly starts printing only a few lines of
text or nothing at all. The status then switches to 'offline'.

When I close pc and printer down, unplug and reconnect the usb cable,
and then start Windows up again, with the printer on, all is honkey
dorey - for as long as it lasts.

(There is nothing wrong with the printer itself as it works just fine
with my laptop using the same cable. The pc is new: no other printer
has ever been installed on it).

Canon cannot reproduce the problem, so I am stuck.

If only there was some consistency in when the problem occurs! It seems
to be totally random, though.

Can some please try to help again? Thanks.

For what it's worth I have a Canon scanner that does the same thing on
Win2k. Canon not being able to duplicate the problem seems to be a
canned response, several other people have the same problem with the
model of scanner I have. I keep meaning to get around to trying same
scanner, same system, booted to XP. I got as far as getting XP
installed in a multiboot config then got side-tracked on some other
project so I don't know if it's a solution (at least for my problem).
I have to agree with measekite to some extent, the problem may very
well be Vista even if it isn't a bug inherant in Vista which it could
be, but rather XP had years more development time for Canon to work
out driver bugs.